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National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 2:56:19 AM   
rogo727


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I am planning to visit the national ww1 in may with my son who is showing great interest in history. Anyone been there? I have read the guns of August and the Somme . I have to admit I didn't play any war games after the Somme for a month it was that depressing and I will find it hard to play ww1 games from now on. I have been to Kansas city many times and I am almost ashamed I have never took the time to see this national treasure.
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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 4:11:50 AM   
jwilkerson


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Been there. Focus is on American involvement. Other aspects receive reduced treatment, perhaps that is natural given the location! In contrast the IWM in South Central London has a more balanced presentation.

These things being said, the KC museum is top notch and definitely worth the time spent.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 12:53:45 PM   
wodin


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The War museum in London or Manchester are excellent. A little to far for you to go though. It seems apparent that in America from schooling to museums they only concentrate on American history and bother little with anything else. Which considering the country doesn't really have much of a history it makes me wonder why?

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 1:25:05 PM   
Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
It seems apparent that in America from schooling to museums they only concentrate on American history and bother little with anything else. Which considering the country doesn't really have much of a history it makes me wonder why?


I see Woody is back hitting the bong ……………

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 2:15:57 PM   
vonRocko

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

The War museum in London or Manchester are excellent. A little to far for you to go though. It seems apparent that in America from schooling to museums they only concentrate on American history and bother little with anything else. Which considering the country doesn't really have much of a history it makes me wonder why?


How many American museums have you visited. What should American museums be focusing on? Chinese rifles?

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 2:22:12 PM   
wodin


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Well the museums in the UK focus on all world history.

Thas all I'm saying.

I've saw a BBC documentary about the poor teaching of History in the States, they were asking some students if they knew who Hitler was, they didn't. (and unfortunately it's happening over here now aswell, we like to copy everyhting the USA does).

Just wondered what those who live in the States think.

Sarge, yeh I'd offer you a toke mate but your to far away. Also honestly compared to the rest of the world American history is really the recent past in comparison, unless where talking about native Americans though as far as I'm aware they never actaully recorded anything.

@VonRocko, I obviously don't need to visit any as by your own admission it seems my assumptions are correct. A WW1 museum cocentrating on just the American input sort of excludes most of the War, doesn't it? If the States wa sinvolved form the start then I suppose fair enough, but it wasn't.

I suggest you go to the IWM in London if you ever come here. You will then see what I consider a superb musuem that covers all aspect and countries involved in the wars.

Oh by the way this just isn't my opinion. This is the opinion of many here in the UK. I haven't pulled it out a stoned mind.

< Message edited by wodin -- 12/21/2011 2:38:16 PM >

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 2:37:09 PM   
vonRocko

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Well the museums in the UK focus on all world history.

Thas all I'm saying.

I've seen programmes about the poor teaching of History in the States, they were asking some students if they Knew who Hitler was, they didn't. (and unfortunately it's happening over here now aswell, we like to copy everyhting the USA does).

Just wondered what those who live in the States think.

Sarge, yeh I'd offer you a toke mate but your to far away. Also honestly compared to the rest of the world American history is really the recent past in comparison, unless where talking about native Americans though as far as I'm aware they never actaully recorded anything, though lets face it it is their country.

You make alot of assumptions based on TV programs. "this was all I'm saying" wasn't all you said. Don't even start blaming America for your countries shortcomings.("we like to copy everything the USA does") Your thinly veiled insults won't fly with me.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 2:39:08 PM   
BAL


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I'll have to differ from those who say it is American-centric. I actually did visit there this past summer and fully the first half or more of the museum is devoted to the European only first 3+ years of the war. Lots of uniforms and equipment on display from the European combatants. In fact, there's a whole out building full of rare German weapns and uniforms. But, you know, since the museum is in the USA is does cover the US involvement.

I know that they're planning quite a large in event in 2014 (not 2017) commemorating the 100 anniversary of the start of the war.

Here's a link to their site www.libertymemorialmuseum.org

It's well worth the trip. Plan on spending the better part of the day there.


< Message edited by BAL -- 12/21/2011 6:50:32 PM >


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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 2:47:17 PM   
wodin


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Jahread enjoyed making a big deal of it. When a PM would have sufficed.

Not going to go into it here but there was a reason behind my actions, as Wodin\Somme I had been put into a position where i felt obliged to talk about personnal issues, which was very embarassing, so i tried to distance myself as much as possible by going under the name jessjmithie (a clue in the name jmith i.e john smith). I was banned for good. So be it. Not sure what harm I was doing. Just wanted a fresh start.

Obviously it was a massive crime and I caused alot of harm which warranted me being banned and humiliated.

However saying that if I did cause anyone any harm or they felt misled I'm very sorry. There was no evil or malicious intent at all and I never wanted to cause anyone any upset.

It seems I'm not going to live this down anytime soon. Which is something I was worried about and had asked Jarhead to keep it between ourselves with a PM. He didn't

So again I'm sorry to those who where hurt or offended or felt misled.

BTW, I read further up the museum concentrated on the American side, obviously thats wrong. So I take back my comments with regards to the museum. It's just if his son was into The Somme and the museum didn't touch on it that much it may not have been the best place to go.

< Message edited by wodin -- 12/21/2011 11:13:42 PM >

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 3:00:52 PM   
BAL


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I hate unsolicited advice but I'll just throw this out there. Spend less time on lame-ass wargame forums and more time actually playing the games. I only replied because I saw the thread title (I was actually heading to the TOAW forum for info) and was interested in correcting a blatantly false statement.

Don't take my word for it. I provided a link - visit the site. It's a first-class museum.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 3:04:47 PM   
wodin


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Bal,

Yeah I agree about spending less time on forums. being kicked of The Wargamer is a blessing in disguise as it give sme more time to play and the incentive to mod again.

Again I take back my statement about the Museum above. I was going by someone who posted further up about it concentrating on the USA more than anythingelse. Obviously thats not the case.

HAppy Hunting.

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Post #: 11
RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 4:14:37 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Well the museums in the UK focus on all world history.

Thas all I'm saying.

I think it has something to do with UK robbing tons of historical treasures during their colonial conquests.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 5:36:45 PM   
planner 3

 

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We must forgive Wodin, he's downwind from the Low Countries so he gets lots of Mary Jane smoke.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 5:51:04 PM   
7th Somersets

 

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quote:

I am planning to visit the national ww1 in may with my son who is showing great interest in history. Anyone been there? I have read the guns of August and the Somme . I have to admit I didn't play any war games after the Somme for a month it was that depressing and I will find it hard to play ww1 games from now on. I have been to Kansas city many times and I am almost ashamed I have never took the time to see this national treasure.

I've not been there - but you must take him to things like that if he is showing an interest in history.
My Great Grandfather fought as a machinegunner on the Somme. My earliest memory is of him describing the battlefield to me as a child. It is a sad, but innevitable, thing that we no longer have any real contact with these people.
If we lose our understanding of history there is always a danger that we will all descend into petty bickering that ends up in unecessary wars.

Happy holidays to you all, wherever you are in the world.

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Post #: 14
RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 6:38:46 PM   
vonRocko

 

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Rogo, I apologise for derailing the thread. Wodin, I apologise to you also. When making broad statements, perhaps adding "In my opinion" to your posts would help.
Anyhow, Good luck, I hope there are no hard feelings.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 6:51:59 PM   
BAL


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Rogo, I apologise for derailing the thread. Wodin, I apologise to you also. When making broad statements, perhaps adding "In my opinion" to your posts would help.
Anyhow, Good luck, I hope there are no hard feelings.



Same here and have edited my post accordingly.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 7:01:04 PM   
rogo727


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It's ok Von! I can understand Wodins English view of America and I am sad to say that my knowlege of English history is from mostly the wars with America and WW1 and WW2. I would like to vist there someday as my wife side is mostly of English descent. Spent three whole days at Gettysberg last year and left without seeing everthing. America is full of History just like any other country in the world.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 7:04:07 PM   
7th Somersets

 

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Bal,

Well done for adding the link - looks superb. I wish that I lived nearer and could visit it.

I have just finished reading Somme Mud by E P F Lynch - an Australian perspective on the war from 1916 onwards. Superb first person account. Highly recommended as accessible reading, with some grim descriptions of hand to hand fighting.


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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 7:13:18 PM   
rogo727


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I will have to check this one out. I just don't understand the English battle plan, after the artillery bombardment, to simply crawl out of the trenches and walk to the german lines?
quote:

ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets

Bal,

Well done for adding the link - looks superb. I wish that I lived nearer and could visit it.

I have just finished reading Somme Mud by E P F Lynch - an Australian perspective on the war from 1916 onwards. Superb first person account. Highly recommended as accessible reading, with some grim descriptions of hand to hand fighting.




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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 8:11:11 PM   
7th Somersets

 

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I doubt that anyone could say that a battle plan that cost around 20,000 dead and another 40,000 wounded in one day was a success...

However there were a number different tactics employed in different parts of the line. In the southern part of the attack there was quite a degree of success on the first day.

In essense you are right about the northern 2/3rd of the fighting. The theory was to use unprecedented artillery fire to destroy the enemy positions and wire, to capture those positions with military units in good order that would be well placed to repel the counter attacks.

I am not defending the plan, but you must remember that artillery methods that permitted supressive fire to cover attacking troops (creeping barrages) was in its infancy on 1st July - it was in use by the British artillery - but not widespread. There were also massive command and control problems. There were no tanks and aircraft were still not being used to the extent that they were in 1917 and after. Also the plan was for a decisive breakthrough of the German lines on such a wide scale as to be of strategic effect. They had to attack in good and bad places was the theory.

In my opinion that does not excuse the optimism in the face of the evidence that was being fed back to commanders in some sectors. It also does not excuse sending soldiers over in the way that they did - often advancing in simple lines with no attempt to seek cover. They knew by then (after Loos etc) the effect that one unsuppresed machinegun could have.

Tactics changed hugely in the months that followed.

If you ever get the chance to walk some of these battlefields you should. A few years ago I visited one. It was sobering to realise that the small white stones on the ploughed field that I looked at were in fact the smaller human bones.

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 9:04:40 PM   
BAL


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I've had the extreme good fortune to have been able to visit the IWM, the British Army Museum and the British Museum among others in the past. All world-class museums that I hope to visit again one day before I croak. I know I'll make another trip to Kansas City to the WWI museum.

Just to make my point about the National WWI Museum one more time, here's a quote from their site...

quote:

The Museum collections and exhibitions tell more than an American story. They cover the entire war from the first shots in 1914 to the last attempts at peace in 1919. All the belligerent nations involved, reflecting both the battlefield and the home front, are represented.



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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 11:06:19 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I will have to check this one out. I just don't understand the English battle plan, after the artillery bombardment, to simply crawl out of the trenches and walk to the german lines?
quote:

ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets

Bal,

Well done for adding the link - looks superb. I wish that I lived nearer and could visit it.

I have just finished reading Somme Mud by E P F Lynch - an Australian perspective on the war from 1916 onwards. Superb first person account. Highly recommended as accessible reading, with some grim descriptions of hand to hand fighting.







Well the reasoning behind it was that the higher ups thought the untested citizen New Army or Kitcheners Army wouldn't be trained well enough to use normal Infantry tactics. So they thought they'd bomb (Arty) the Germans out of existence so the new army divisions would be able to walk across in nice neat lines and so keep together and not get mixed up.

They underestimated the ability of a citizen army in it's ability to learn and follow Infantry tactics and they also overlooked the fact the Germans had dug beautiful and deep dugouts despite having intelligence on hand from patrols and trench raids on how deep and well built the german dug outs where.

Thats why on the Somme they army units walked across on that first day. They hadn't before that and they didn't after. However many think thats how all battles in WW1 were fought.

Somme Mud is a great read. I have around 200 or so WW1 books. Many are memoirs. If anyone wants I will send them a list of some of my favourites.

< Message edited by wodin -- 12/21/2011 11:08:54 PM >

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RE: National WW1 museum - 12/21/2011 11:09:58 PM   
wodin


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Oh by the way thanks to everyone on here who have treated me fairly and edited out any comments. I appreciate it loads.

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Post #: 23
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