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You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan) vs Cyber Me (Allies)

 
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You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan) vs ... - 12/19/2011 10:57:10 PM   
dennishe


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Another tread in a similar style to: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2785645 , but now I'm in control of the Japanese side and Cyber Me is commanding the Allies. Enjoy...






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< Message edited by dennishe -- 12/19/2011 11:27:56 PM >


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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/19/2011 11:03:28 PM   
dennishe


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Here some houserules and stuff. We are doing scenario 2.




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/19/2011 11:06:25 PM   
dennishe


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As "Historical Attack" was ON, the war starts with an attack on Pearl Harbor




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/19/2011 11:07:27 PM   
dennishe


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There were no planes in the air and with very little losses the Japanese Imperial Navy hit the US Navy very hard.




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< Message edited by dennishe -- 12/19/2011 11:09:25 PM >


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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/19/2011 11:09:23 PM   
dennishe


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Sometimes I do a second attack on day 2, but this usually costs quite some pilots. As a lot of damage has already been done, KB left (for now)...




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/21/2011 1:22:17 AM   
dennishe


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In some previous games I bypassed the Philippines, but I have come to realize that this is really dangerous if Allied supply transports manage to get to Manila.






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< Message edited by dennishe -- 12/21/2011 1:26:44 AM >


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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/21/2011 2:29:08 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

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dennishe -

Absolutely first class graphics and narrative - a very different approach!

Keep it up - I look forward to what's next!

Mac

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/21/2011 4:43:14 AM   
Cribtop


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I love it. Good luck! JFBs unite!

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/23/2011 1:49:14 AM   
dennishe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

dennishe -

Absolutely first class graphics and narrative - a very different approach!

Keep it up - I look forward to what's next!

Mac


quote:

I love it. Good luck! JFBs unite!


Thanks. I'm glad you guys like it




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/23/2011 1:50:17 AM   
dennishe


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Historical First Turn = Shot at Force Z




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/24/2011 12:46:18 AM   
sdevault


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I do like it as well. I wish I had the time to commit to such an endeavor.
It will be interesting to see just how many photos related to your exact topic you will be able to find.

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/27/2011 5:30:20 PM   
dennishe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sdevault



I do like it as well. I wish I had the time to commit to such an endeavor.
It will be interesting to see just how many photos related to your exact topic you will be able to find.



Thanks! There are many pictures one can use. For most ships for example there are lots of pictures. And I'm not going to care too much whether a picture is taken at Tarawa (for example) or another tropical island where a battle in my game takes place. Here is another update




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/29/2011 12:55:37 PM   
dennishe


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So here is the economical picture. I simply wanted to copy paste the figures from WITPAE tracker, but it became unreadable. Comments on my economic plans are very welcome as I do not have any experience with the economical system in scenario 2. Note that this is only turn 7 and things are still ramping up.




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/29/2011 1:38:24 PM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


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Very nice AAR style I must say.
About industry. Ramp up vehicle production to 250 asap. In scen2 you will get another whole army as reinforcments soon and it comes with a Tank division.
Also dont overproduce the Oscar 1c, the Tojo comes a few months earlier.

< Message edited by Gräfin Zeppelin -- 12/29/2011 1:41:29 PM >


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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/29/2011 2:39:49 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dennishe
Comments on my economic plans are very welcome as I do not have any experience with the economical system in scenario 2. Note that this is only turn 7 and things are still ramping up.

I know you to be an experienced player, but Scen 2 is just a trap waiting to spring on the IJ economy if you are new to it. Those extra goodies, particularly those pilots, require much better HI use planning as compared to Scen 1. Use the following notes as you see fit, most a likely only reminders for you ... no insult intended.

Mike always stresses to "make haste slowly*" as it applies to building factories.

First and foremost, the IJ economy requires a plan. A very detailed plan that begins on 7 Dec and runs through June 46. Seriously. Open up the Industry manager in the game and look at the top categories. You need a plan for each category. It is very easy to crash the IJ economy, particularly early in the game. It is much easier in Scen 2 than in Scen 1 to crash the economy as there are more goodies, but the economy is the same size.

Ex: increasing VEH is important. You have 6 factories, increasing each is 6x1000 supply/day. The HI only makes ~20,000 supply/day. You also need supply to fuel your expansion. Yes, you have some inventory in the HI, but not that much. To get to 250 VEH/day, you have to expand these the entire month of Dec. You also want to convert ac models to more useful ones. How many? If you change/increase more than 14 ac factories, which is very easy to do, you are now running at a supply daily deficit. Oops, did you also want to change/increase some ac engine factories too? .... You can see the trap that many player fall into quickly ... change too many factories too early and you easily run out of supply, then you have to interupt your expansion, cannot repair all the oil facilities that you just captured, ... a mess.

Plan. A highly detailed plan is required. One that you are able to adapt to the vagaries of the war. This is where the IJ failed miserably IRL. They did have a plan at the start of the war, but as the war progressed they struggled to adapt due to internal politics.

BTW, Tracker is your saviour as IJ. It is a big help in management.


* ancient Italian proverb

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/29/2011 4:13:00 PM   
dennishe


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Thanks for the helpful suggestions. Yes, I have played several games before, but all games where I played Japan did not make it (yet) past 1943. Overexpansion is what I'm watching out for. I have upgraded some engines and planes and did increase vehicles a bit. The plan is to economize everything I don't really need and to increase production of money-in-the-bank equipment like certain engines, HI, armament and vehicles. B5N1 kates are almost for free and I will produce these until the pool of the obsolete engines it uses is dried up. Also I will continue producing some Ki-21b's until those engines are gone. The Ki-21b will be the main trainer of the IJA. Note that I'm playing with PDU off, thus I still need some of these obsolete planes later on in the war. I will probably decrease the naval shipyard production in the near future. And I plan to continuously increase HI production at Singapore and Java, very close to the resources and oil. I'm following my economy daily with WITP tracker and depending on how the numbers change I will do further manipulations on the fragile economic system. Here is another update on the Philipinnes. I was lucky at Legaspi




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/29/2011 4:15:19 PM   
dennishe


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Typically Wake is a mess and usually I wait for the attack for reinforcement by the 144th regiment at Guam. This time I brought in KB and softened up the islands defenses by two bombardments of all D3A1 Vals and B5N2 Kates on board of the carriers. It worked. Wake is mine.




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/30/2011 1:27:46 PM   
dennishe


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No turns today so I studied the Japanese economy system in somewhat more detail. In short my strategy will be:

1. First HI will be mass produced and stockpiled. The HI stockpile should be sufficiently large that the economy does not stop (completely) if the Allies take the DEI or cut off Japan from the DEI.

2. Armament and Vehicles do not get obsolete and will be mass produced. There should be no need to build these once the Allies start bombarding Japan

3. Engines that are not obsolete in 1945 will be mass produced.

4. There is no 1941-model aircraft that is useful in 1945. Hence, planes will only be produced economically initially (produced as needed + sufficient spares for setbacks) to save HI, and will only be stockpiled somewhere after august 1943, dependent how the war is going and the type of aircraft. Factories with aircraft that follow long upgrade paths will be expanded earlier (e.g. A6M3 Zero).

5. Once the Allies start bombarding Japan, there should be no need to produce armament, HI, vehicles and the older engines. Aircraft factories and modern engine factories will be the only ones that will be defended and repaired.






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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/30/2011 2:26:59 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dennishe

4. There is no 1941-model aircraft that is useful in 1945. Hence, planes will only be produced economically initially (produced as needed + sufficient spares for setbacks) to save HI, and will only be stockpiled somewhere after august 1943, dependent how the war is going and the type of aircraft. Factories with aircraft that follow long upgrade paths will be expanded earlier (e.g. A6M3 Zero).


Don't overlook kami's. You can burn 1000 ac in one kami attack. The implication is that you need to be producing them all along to get the inventories required as you cannot possibly build them fast enough in '45.

Anything carrying at least 1x250kg bomb makes for an accetable kami. Faster planes with that load are better. Thus Oscar's are pretty good as some of them get 2x250kg and are relatively fast. Kates are good, 1x800kg is a heck of a boom. Vals are acceptable. Sally/Nettie/Helen are all good. etc. Also look at your factory upgrades. Keeping the A6M2 factory(s) idle, instead of converting to something else, until the Sen Baku comes on line can be a good strategy as the Sen Baku is a good kami.

Just some thoughts ...

BTW, great AAR.

BANZAI!!!

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/30/2011 2:36:02 PM   
Olorin


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Great presentation! I like the quotes of the Generals and Admirals

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/30/2011 3:19:00 PM   
dennishe


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Thanks for the comments


quote:

Don't overlook kami's. You can burn 1000 ac in one kami attack. The implication is that you need to be producing them all along to get the inventories required as you cannot possibly build them fast enough in '45.


How affective are Kamis in WIPTAE? Sending 1000 planes on a one way trip is brutal. And how does scrapping of aircraft by AI work?

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/30/2011 3:50:53 PM   
PaxMondo


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If you can find Nemo's Armageddon AAR, he gives the strategy. He demonstrated the ability hit the allied Death Star with ~1500 kami attack, lost 1000 ac, sank 6xCV, some CVE's and other ships. But, this implies you need ~10,000 kami on hand ... if 1E ac => 360,000 HI commitment. Quite reasonable actually, but not something you can build in a month or six. Takes years to accumulate ...

Scrapping is when it is greater than 20xtotal ac in groups. So if you have a 45ac group of nates, you can have up to 900 nates in inventory before scrapping. As you can see, not that hard to plan around the scrapping.

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/31/2011 1:13:39 AM   
dennishe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

If you can find Nemo's Armageddon AAR, he gives the strategy. He demonstrated the ability hit the allied Death Star with ~1500 kami attack, lost 1000 ac, sank 6xCV, some CVE's and other ships. But, this implies you need ~10,000 kami on hand ... if 1E ac => 360,000 HI commitment. Quite reasonable actually, but not something you can build in a month or six. Takes years to accumulate ...



This is very impressive, yet I'm wondering what the outcome would have been if 1000 planes on naval attack would have attacked the death star with bombs and torpedoes. And then how many pilots and planes would return to their bases in Japan. I will be reading a lot of AARs in the forecoming days to do the math. I wish the search options on this site would be a little better. Perhaps I indeed should increase production of planes with a long upgrade paths already at a very early stage. Thanks for the info.

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/31/2011 4:56:54 AM   
PaxMondo


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Kamis get a special attack profile that allows higher than normal penetration.  Its like a DB attack, but with a higher hit percentage with lower skill pilots.

BUT, if you go that route (normal attacks with high skill/exp pilots), I will be watching avidly to see how it is done. 

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/31/2011 2:34:19 PM   
dennishe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Kamis get a special attack profile that allows higher than normal penetration.  Its like a DB attack, but with a higher hit percentage with lower skill pilots.

BUT, if you go that route (normal attacks with high skill/exp pilots), I will be watching avidly to see how it is done. 


Thanks. Kamikaze is thus a very interesting alternative, especially if the pool of skilled pilots has dried up.

Here is another update. I captured Singkawang early and will quickly build it up to a level 4 base, from where G3M2 and G4M1 bombers can strike enemy shipping around Java. Moreover from here we can monitor Palembang. I will take it late to prevent bombardment of the oil fields, but don't want to see the enemy shipping troops there.




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 12/31/2011 2:46:49 PM   
dennishe


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I'd love to see those Buffalo I's fighting my Zeros instead of slow bombers




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 1/1/2012 12:11:21 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dennishe


Thanks. Kamikaze is thus a very interesting alternative, especially if the pool of skilled pilots has dried up.


I played/tested with the Downfall scenario this year to work out my end game strategies/tactics. Kami's are crucial as Nemo points out in his AAR. Straight up the IJ has no chance against the allied death star. With kami's, they have a chance. But you have to be willing to commit hundreds ... many, many hundreds to an attack.

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 1/1/2012 12:34:00 AM   
dennishe


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quote:

I played/tested with the Downfall scenario this year to work out my end game strategies/tactics. Kami's are crucial as Nemo points out in his AAR. Straight up the IJ has no chance against the allied death star. With kami's, they have a chance. But you have to be willing to commit hundreds ... many, many hundreds to an attack.


After a quick study of the AAR I came to the same conclusion. I will ramp up the production of good kamikaze planes early. Especially aircraft that upgrade to modern variants later on. Thanks a lot of the advice

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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 1/2/2012 10:19:52 PM   
dennishe


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Singkawang and Kendari are mine. From here G4M and G3Ms can hit everywhere in the DEI.




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RE: You're either an ace or a target - dennishe (Japan)... - 1/3/2012 1:19:11 AM   
Ketza


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Awesome AAR! Great info provided on the Japanese economy as well.

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