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Can you explain please - LOS

 
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Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 6:50:54 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8341
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		There is a Panzer IVG half way up the road on the right hand side of the map. If you highlight it, it's taking fire from an AT gun to the north west...but looking at the LOS, it does not have LOS - it's through buildings and trees. Worse still is the fact that I have no recourse - I cannot attack with the Panzer IVG to suppress because there is no LOS.

It's been a while since I played this...and having it mentioned to me the other day I decided to give it another fire up - then realised the very reason I left it was because I was being attacked by something that had LOS (even though the "straight line of LOS seems to go through buildings and trees)...and I couldn't be afforded the same. Of course, that wasn't the only reason...an attention span of a gnat doesn't help ;-)

I don't mind if it's right and my interpretation is wrong...but it seems to me if something has Line of Sight to me, then it should work the other way

I'd be very interested to know the reason why not...and I mean that genuinely.

I've attached a save because I can't get a picture taken whilst in game (it just takes a picture of my desktop...seemingly ignoring the game...and that's even with my screen grabbing software)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 12/16/2011 7:14:34 PM >

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 7:40:37 PM   
Rick

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

There is a Panzer IVG half way up the road on the right hand side of the map. If you highlight it, it's taking fire from an AT gun to the north west...but looking at the LOS, it does not have LOS - it's through buildings and trees. Worse still is the fact that I have no recourse - I cannot attack with the Panzer IVG to suppress because there is no LOS.

It's been a while since I played this...and having it mentioned to me the other day I decided to give it another fire up - then realised the very reason I left it was because I was being attacked by something that had LOS (even though the "straight line of LOS seems to go through buildings and trees)...and I couldn't be afforded the same. Of course, that wasn't the only reason...an attention span of a gnat doesn't help ;-)

I don't mind if it's right and my interpretation is wrong...but it seems to me if something has Line of Sight to me, then it should work the other way

I'd be very interested to know the reason why not...and I mean that genuinely.

I've attached a save because I can't get a picture taken whilst in game (it just takes a picture of my desktop...seemingly ignoring the game...and that's even with my screen grabbing software)


Judge,

I haven't looked at your save yet, but I can address a couple of things>

1. To take a screen shot while in the game press F8 (the screen capture gets saved in a folder named Screens). The file name is based on a timestamp, so you can take sequential captures pretty quickly.

2. LOS is NOT necessarily if you can see me, I can see you. This isn't really true in real world either. The LOS is calculated separately from the AT to you and from you to the AT gun. the mechanics involved inorporate size differences between the two units, whether the spotting unit is stationary or moving and whether the target unit is stationary or moving. The condition of the spotting unit and the condition of the target unit. And remember LOS is calculated from both perspectives. The manual lists a number of factors besides terrain that affect LOS. Chapter 6 goes over quite a few factors that might result in one unit being able to spot another unit that can not see back.

That being said, I'll take a look at your save and see what I see as well. Building normally block LOS unless there is a height difference between the two units.

thanks
rick


< Message edited by Rick -- 12/16/2011 7:42:13 PM >

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 7:48:32 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8341
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Thx for answering Rick.

There is a height difference between target and attacker - but I'm still sure there is a building in the way...I'm going to double check.

And thanks for the explanation of how "he sees me why can't I see him" - one tends to forget the little "important" details when one feels cheated ;-)

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 7:49:41 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8341
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Oh - and thanks for the tip on the screenshot key

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 7:59:53 PM   
Mobius


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		The guns in the gun pits are dug in up to their barrels and are small. The tank is large, in the open and is firing. The right most gun seems to be out of covered arc.
The one recourse would be to area fire HE next to the gun positions but from the current distance the tank can't even see the ground near the guns. Maybe because of the grass obscures it.

Sighting has factors that increase the ability to see something if it is large, moving and firing. Small, unmoving and not firing things have less factors and are harder to see. If something is out of covered arc it has a severe reduction in sighting but may still be possible. The grass produces a sighting reduction factor so the more the LOS has to pass through the grass the less the sighting distance. This is the hardest thing for a player to judge.

< Message edited by Mobius -- 12/16/2011 8:30:00 PM >

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 8:08:42 PM   
Rick

 

Posts: 11598
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline 		Glad to help. I did take a look at your save, and If I have the right vehicle - AT combination The AT gun appear to be set in place on the hill. I think it can see over that building, but it's hard to tell.

thanks
rick

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 8:26:11 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8341
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Thanks.

I did look from the gun pit position and it did look like it might actually have LOS...though strangely the yellow line looks like it's going through a building.

Thanks for the look though....I'm glad someone mentioned this on Wargamer - the icon has been on my desktop and I was about to click it the other night and but it was a bit late. Glad I have again.

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 8:27:15 PM   
Mobius


Posts: 8729
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		The target rubber band goes right over the house. But it is close. And if you look at it from the top or the side it looks like it goes through or around different ends. So it really throws you off. Looking at it from right next to the house down a cross section of the rubber band:





Attachment (1)

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 8:30:39 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12667
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		There is a hotkey to set the rubberbands above the terrain.

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RE: Can you explain please - LOS - 12/16/2011 8:32:51 PM   
Mobius


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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

There is a hotkey to set the rubberbands above the terrain.

I don't remember encountering this but does make sense because when it goes under water it really looks wierd.

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