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New player question - 12/16/2011 3:12:12 PM   
smcintyr_11

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/11/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I recently purchased the game and it sure is a lot of fun. I have watched the tutorial movies and run through the tutorial myself. I have never played any of the previous games so my experience with this style of game is limited. My question is, what scenarios would you recommend for a starting player to play next?
Post #: 1
RE: New player question - 12/16/2011 3:55:10 PM   
Bletchley_Geek


Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Hi,

you should check MarkShot's exhaustive analysis of BftB scenario complexity available here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2479970

so you can check in one glance, how complex scenarios can be (# units, #objectives, etc.).

Personally I'd recommend "Nobody Comes Back" as the Germans. It features about two divisions and you have to deal with river crossings (so you have an advance force while your main body is basically sitting on their hands waiting for the engineers). After that, I'd try Race for Bastogne, for some serious corps-level action.

You can also check some of sweeteye's mini-scenarios focusing on the Lorraine campaign and Operation Nordwind (they're small, and those of the Lorraine take place in a terrain somewhat different than that of Ardennes).

_____________________________


Real men go to war on Real tanks

(in reply to smcintyr_11)
Post #: 2
RE: New player question - 12/16/2011 8:01:56 PM   
fleischer

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		If you prefer playing as the axis, like me, I would recommend Höfen. It has three regiments and some supporting units, which makes it a great start for a newbie that doesn't want to get overwhelmed. After that 'Losheim Gap' would be a logical choice. It has a lot of the same types of units as Hofen, but is bigger and longer. After that, you can try Battle of the Roadblocks, which is more panzer-centric than Hofen and Losheim. All these are early scenarions, so you won't spoil your fun by playing scenarios in a different order than they occurred historically.

(in reply to Bletchley_Geek)
Post #: 3
RE: New player question - 12/18/2011 8:01:56 AM   
smcintyr_11

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/11/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply. I guess I should have asked this question before I had more time to play. I'm thinking I'll give the Hofen scenario a try first. See how I do an go from there. The scenario complexity listing is really great and quite useful too. Thanks again.

(in reply to fleischer)
Post #: 4
RE: New player question - 12/18/2011 12:50:41 PM   
Bletchley_Geek


Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smcintyr_11

Thanks for the reply. I guess I should have asked this question before I had more time to play. I'm thinking I'll give the Hofen scenario a try first. See how I do an go from there. The scenario complexity listing is really great and quite useful too. Thanks again.


I'll add to fleischer remark that winning Höfen Ho-Down as the Germans requires a tight grasp of logistics in the game and how to account for these in your planning. It's indeed a better starter scenario than those I proposed.

_____________________________


Real men go to war on Real tanks

(in reply to smcintyr_11)
Post #: 5
RE: New player question - 12/18/2011 1:36:53 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Winning Hofen as Axis, with the new patches, on standard settings, is not easy, imho. Of course, I'm pretty imnpatient and having a lot of patience and an eye for detail really makes the diff in this game (I don't mean to micro-manage, but to use artillery, in particular, to block counter-attacks and reinforcements is, once again imho, pretty essential to win as Axis in this scenario - if you can spare some units (spare regimental HQs and a couple on infantry gun units for example, if ordering at battallion level) to block obvious reinforcement routes up to the Hofen ridge then that will pay well). It's a great starting scenario though, as the size of your force is very manageable and the strategic routes varied though obvious. Be sure to get up the google earth overlays and have a look at the battlefield on google earth as you go - gives a great insight as to visibility, objectives etc. Makes it more real too. You should probably set the zoom setting in google earth to about 1.2 to get a good idea of the landscape.

(in reply to Bletchley_Geek)
Post #: 6
RE: New player question - 12/18/2011 1:37:32 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		repeat post deleted

< Message edited by phoenix -- 12/18/2011 7:51:09 PM >

(in reply to Bletchley_Geek)
Post #: 7
RE: New player question - 12/18/2011 7:36:13 PM   
fleischer

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		I haven't paid much attention to logistics in Hofen except that your artillery begins without ammunition, which might or might not be a crucial point depending on your choice of tactics. The key to winning Hofen, IMHO, is outflanking and moving into built-up areas at night. A head on attack will usually get you destroyed in the open by artillery, but might work better now that units don't "bleed" as much after routing and surrendering.

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 8
RE: New player question - 12/18/2011 7:47:56 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		I've found getting into the objectives - as you say Fleischer, usually by dark - relatively easy, and usually I can easily deny the Allies all objectives quite quickly, but they still hang around, of course, so I don't have possession yet, and I'm not getting points. Pre-patch I was then able to clear the objectives quite efficiently, sometimes just using arty. That doesn't seem to work at all now. The Allies just seem more determined to keep a toe-hold in there, denying me the points. I end the scenario usually thinking I could have it all cleared if I had just another day....Of course, as I've said before, I'm quite a slapdash player, but even so my meagre abilities were enough to score decisive victories very easily, pre-patch. That's a good thing, I think, that it's gotten harder.

(in reply to fleischer)
Post #: 9
RE: New player question - 12/18/2011 7:58:27 PM   
Kronolog

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 3/23/2011
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

Winning Hofen as Axis, with the new patches, on standard settings, is not easy, imho. Of course, I'm pretty imnpatient and having a lot of patience and an eye for detail really makes the diff in this game (I don't mean to micro-manage, but to use artillery, in particular, to block counter-attacks and reinforcements is, once again imho, pretty essential to win as Axis in this scenario - if you can spare some units (spare regimental HQs and a couple on infantry gun units for example, if ordering at battallion level) to block obvious reinforcement routes up to the Hofen ridge then that will pay well). It's a great starting scenario though, as the size of your force is very manageable and the strategic routes varied though obvious. Be sure to get up the google earth overlays and have a look at the battlefield on google earth as you go - gives a great insight as to visibility, objectives etc. Makes it more real too. You should probably set the zoom setting in google earth to about 1.2 to get a good idea of the landscape.


I did manage to score a minor (or marginal) victory on my first try as the Germans. Though perhaps it was more luck than skill as almost a whole battalion ended up routing west of Höfen. One company even reached Kalterherberg and managed to remain undetected there for rest of the scenario. The two other companies dug in on the roads between Kalterherberg and Höfen. On day two I was then able to sandwich the town and attack from all directions, and on the morning of day three there were hardly any organized resistance left. Of course, by that point my units were spent and unable to press the attack west.

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 10
RE: New player question - 12/19/2011 1:21:30 AM   
dougb

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 4/5/2009
Status: offline 		Well done! It took me two tries before I got a decisive victory in that scenario and that was before the latest enhancements to the game engine.

Doug

(in reply to Kronolog)
Post #: 11
RE: New player question - 12/19/2011 8:18:53 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Well it took me about thirty tries to get a decisive vic, admittedly all on fastest speed, trying out various big changes, and not paying a great deal of attention to detail (each game only took about fifteen minutes). But after that.....it was easier, until the patch, anyway...

(in reply to dougb)
Post #: 12
RE: New player question - 12/19/2011 8:50:19 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I can never undertsand playing this at the fastest speed all the way through a game. How do you mintor whats really happening? Aslo when i ahve done it I found I got no real enjyoment out of the game. It was just aload of counters zipping around.


(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 13
RE: New player question - 12/19/2011 9:19:07 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		No. It's fun, but not as much fun. I do it to try out various plans, quickly - see which has a chance - a kind of test run (I ended up doing about thirty - I wasn't paying too much attention, I had other things to do at the same time!). It's nice the game allows this kind of testing. At least, that's how I used to think (that you could meaningfully test plans like that). Now I think that in a good, well-balanced scenario, a big, hands-off plan is only made by the attention to detail as it unfolds, so many different plans might work, if you fine tune them enough - I think finessing the things is important. Still, at least with the old AI I could win Hofen with just a handful of orders, all done at full speed - not so easy now, I think. And I didn't win decisive victories like that.

< Message edited by phoenix -- 12/19/2011 9:21:04 AM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 14
RE: New player question - 12/19/2011 12:21:33 PM   
Bletchley_Geek


Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fleischer
I haven't paid much attention to logistics in Hofen except that your artillery begins without ammunition, which might or might not be a crucial point depending on your choice of tactics. The key to winning Hofen, IMHO, is outflanking and moving into built-up areas at night. A head on attack will usually get you destroyed in the open by artillery, but might work better now that units don't "bleed" as much after routing and surrendering.


Units are also severely lacking ammo - which is quite bad and accounts most of the time for lack of aggressiveness - and you'll want fuel if you want those StuG's (and Jagdtigers if you play with the Favour Axis option) to become a relevant asset. In any case, really what you said.

In order to get your forces rested and supplied you need at least 2 resupply cycles (so the early hours of D2 are perhaps the earliest you can get your operation going on). I also enjoyed the challenge of finding covered positions for my infantry to rest - otherwise the US artillery will pound them heavily. And indeed infiltrating during night to surround US - few - units is certainly the way to go.

I've only managed to get minor victories or draws (at best) out of this one. A challenging - and fun - scenario, indeed.

_____________________________


Real men go to war on Real tanks

(in reply to fleischer)
Post #: 15
RE: New player question - 12/19/2011 4:00:26 PM   
dougb

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 4/5/2009
Status: offline 		I really suffer from paralysis by analysis and I think this is a game where newbies may find that even more challenging, with the emphasis on planning and orders. Best suggestion for dealing with this is to follow Dave's videos as I think these are extremely helpful for pointing out some of the key factors you need to take into account when playing any of the scenarios. I know that those videos really helped me prior to playing the Hofen scenario.

Doug

(in reply to Bletchley_Geek)
Post #: 16
RE: New player question - 12/21/2011 6:21:52 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2941
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smcintyr_11

I recently purchased the game and it sure is a lot of fun. I have watched the tutorial movies and run through the tutorial myself. I have never played any of the previous games so my experience with this style of game is limited. My question is, what scenarios would you recommend for a starting player to play next?


Try Tut St Vith as GERMANS! You can train an initial tenacious defence, then a fighting withdrawal and counter attack in one game. It´s not an ideal ground for US AI play, but lots of fun and lots to learn.

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Post #: 17
RE: New player question - 12/21/2011 11:50:50 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dougb

I really suffer from paralysis by analysis and I think this is a game where newbies may find that even more challenging, with the emphasis on planning and orders. Best suggestion for dealing with this is to follow Dave's videos as I think these are extremely helpful for pointing out some of the key factors you need to take into account when playing any of the scenarios. I know that those videos really helped me prior to playing the Hofen scenario.

Doug



Your not the only one. Not sure how many times I've booted up BftB and loaded a scenario, sat and stared for 5 or 10 minutes then quit. Precisely for the reasons stated.

However when I do think of just go for it it normally starts to pan out OK and I have a great time. It's just those opening moves! I do find checking out all the obj's and seeing when they come into play etc gives me an idea of where I should be and when.

(in reply to dougb)
Post #: 18
RE: New player question - 12/21/2011 11:55:17 PM   
Reaper


Posts: 139
Joined: 9/21/2010
From: Twickenham
Status: offline 		I have just got into the game and decided to go with the time line - I am playing all through as axis (other than the tutorial)

- oh, ensure you watch the 1965 classic film as an intro to some of the scenarios!

Ade

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 19
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