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Chungking Falls! (no rjopel, please!)

 
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Chungking Falls! (no rjopel, please!) - 12/14/2011 5:40:49 AM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2788
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline
I have worked long and hard to make this happen. It is August 10, 1943. Scenario 6, PBEM vs. rjopel. Here is the final report:

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 119459 troops, 1964 guns, 874 vehicles, Assault Value = 2780

Defending force 40348 troops, 220 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 303

Japanese adjusted assault: 943

Allied adjusted defense: 231

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Chungking !!!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
P-66 Vanguard: 1 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
670 casualties reported
Squads: 22 destroyed, 70 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 10 (1 destroyed, 9 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
29455 casualties reported
Squads: 1866 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 4095 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 69 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 212 (212 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 46


Assaulting units:
116th Division
138th Infantry Regiment
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
69th Division
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
40th Division
36th Division
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment
15th Division
24th Division
17th Division
35th Division
3rd Division
11th Indpt Infantry Regiment
110th/A Division
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
71st Engineer Regiment
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
8th Mountain Gun Regiment
12th Army
1st Mobile Field Artillery Regiment
4th Mortar Battalion
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
11th Field Artillery Regiment
28th Engineer Regiment
1st Army
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
29th Field AA Machinecannon Company
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
63rd Infantry Brigade
12th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
31st Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Army
28th Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Field Artillery Regiment
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
29th Fld AA Gun Co
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd Mobile Field Artillery Regiment
7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
56th Field AA Battalion
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
7th RF Gun Battalion
31st Mountain Gun Regiment
27th Fld AA Gun Co
3rd RF Gun Battalion
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
71st Mountain Gun Regiment
16th Field AA Machinecannon Company
1st Mortar Battalion
6th RF Gun Battalion
25th Field AA Machinecannon Company
13th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion

Defending units:
12th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
37th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Corps
79th Chinese Corps
98th Chinese Cavalry Division
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
14th Group Army
8th Prov Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Base Force
5th Chinese Base Force
9th Separate Brigade
259th Brigade
303rd Brigade
20th Artillery Regiment
22nd Group Army
Central Reserve
19th Group Army
18th Artillery Regiment
6th Construction Regiment
China Command
31st Group Army
28th Chinese Corps
8th Chinese Base Force
19th Chinese Base Force
14th Chinese Base Force
13th Chinese Base Force
Jingcha War Area
7th War Area
5th Construction Regiment
17th Construction Regiment
10th Group Army
2nd Construction Regiment
22nd Chinese Corps
22nd Artillery Regiment
1st Chinese Cavalry SNLF
2nd Chinese Base Force
3rd Construction Regiment
12th Chinese Base Force
14th Chinese Corps
CAF HQ
16th Construction Regiment
4th Group Army
14th Construction Regiment
41st AA Regiment

< Message edited by nashvillen -- 12/16/2011 5:38:12 PM >


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RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/14/2011 5:58:12 AM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2788
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline
Sorry rjopel, I had to brag a little before you wipe me out in Burma!

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RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/14/2011 7:39:15 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 12271
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
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With China gone you should be able to hold Burma forever...

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Post #: 3
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/14/2011 10:28:14 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 582
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From: Peterborough, UK
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They all come back in a month.

Like locust.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 4
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/14/2011 11:22:22 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 3099
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Could you imagine how tall that stack would have been with cardboard counters

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RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/14/2011 11:29:42 PM   
bbbf

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 7/16/2000
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline
Damn it man, now Ryan is going to hate CHina even more in our game.

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Robert Lee

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Post #: 6
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/15/2011 12:27:25 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Peterborough, UK
Status: offline
I HATE CHINA.

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Post #: 7
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/15/2011 2:58:58 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5779
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: rjopel

They all come back in a month.

Like locust.

With Chungking gone, where do they come back?

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Pax

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Post #: 8
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/15/2011 3:31:19 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2788
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline
16.4.2 SPECIAL CHINESE REPLACEMENTS
Chinese infantry units that are totally destroyed are recreated. When destroyed, the unit is set
to return to Chungking 30 days later at 1/3 of it’s TO&E strength. These replacement units do
not use up any units from the replacement pool. They represent the almost unlimited ability of
China to replace infantry units if needed.

What happens if Chungking is not in Chinese hands?

[Edit] - cross posting with Pax

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RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/15/2011 3:48:50 PM   
bigred


Posts: 2892
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

16.4.2 SPECIAL CHINESE REPLACEMENTS
Chinese infantry units that are totally destroyed are recreated. When destroyed, the unit is set
to return to Chungking 30 days later at 1/3 of it’s TO&E strength. These replacement units do
not use up any units from the replacement pool. They represent the almost unlimited ability of
China to replace infantry units if needed.

What happens if Chungking is not in Chinese hands?

[Edit] - cross posting with Pax

+1bump,(same thing happened to me) I dont see any chinese reinforcements listed on the reinforcement screen.

< Message edited by bigred -- 12/15/2011 3:49:31 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/15/2011 4:20:49 PM   
Alfred

 

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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According to s.16.6 of the manual they should arrive at Chengtu. If Chengtu is also under Japanese control, the units will remain in a queue waiting for Allied liberation of either base.

Alfred

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Post #: 11
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/15/2011 7:18:30 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2788
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline
Ahh, thank you Alfred. Chengtu is soon going to be under my control also.

Also, my victory points jumped up considerably.

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RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/15/2011 9:30:19 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5779
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

According to s.16.6 of the manual they should arrive at Chengtu. If Chengtu is also under Japanese control, the units will remain in a queue waiting for Allied liberation of either base.

Alfred

Wow. That would free up beaucoup IJ units ...

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Pax

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Post #: 13
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/15/2011 11:29:58 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Peterborough, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

According to s.16.6 of the manual they should arrive at Chengtu. If Chengtu is also under Japanese control, the units will remain in a queue waiting for Allied liberation of either base.

Alfred



Thanks for nothing Alfred.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 14
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/16/2011 7:00:51 AM   
icepharmy

 

Posts: 264
Joined: 4/3/2010
From: Bangkok/Budapest
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Did the HRs specify PP for Kwantung army units?

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Post #: 15
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/16/2011 10:48:11 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Peterborough, UK
Status: offline
No

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Post #: 16
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/16/2011 3:08:18 PM   
icepharmy

 

Posts: 264
Joined: 4/3/2010
From: Bangkok/Budapest
Status: offline
well that does make a difference, you an start a full offensive with 2100AVplus in 42 instead of patiently waiting for PPs to come by

You start out with about 3100 AV plus in Manchuria (11300/8000). Lets say a division is roughly 400 AV, and a division costs about 1400PPs to release from a restricted command, so that means you can let release/move out about 7 and a half divisions and not be at danger of Soviet activation. Thats 200 days worth of PP = 10500-500 (you start with 500 PP/get 50 PP a turn) And that would be 200 days of not changing a single commander or airgroup or ASW island or buying back a destroyed air unit. I think that particular HR is there simply because the game does, by omission, and not design, not recognize land borders of restricted units. Then again, I play as a JFB against the AI, where it would be to easy for me to conquer China fast if I could buy out more then just my armored units in the first couple of months. Then again, that's against the AI, an aggressive human player would I think easily realize that if I shift all those units from Wuchang/Hankow/Anking/Hangchow to the North they could easily gut my soft underbelly (the AI is remarkably passive in China)

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Post #: 17
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/16/2011 3:41:36 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2788
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline
I paid PPs for all of those Kwantung Units. Wish I had paid for them to be in the Southern Army, but put them in the 11th, 12th, 13th, or 23rd as these were the units they were working with. That is why it is almost 1944 and I am just now doing this. Things have just recently (last three months) busted loose.

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Post #: 18
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/16/2011 5:29:41 PM   
icepharmy

 

Posts: 264
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From: Bangkok/Budapest
Status: offline
Sorry, congrats, hats off to you then. Its really difficult to move so far forward with all the garrison requirements and almost no supply. In Scen 1 and Scen 70 (RA) someone put Jehol by the way in Kwantung area lately (or was it always under Kwantung???), its great for combat ground bomb training,

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Post #: 19
RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/16/2011 7:21:16 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2788
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline
OK, I have asked rjopel to not read any further, as I am going to give the group some information that might impact ongoing operations in China/Burma.

Buying the units from Kwantung was key, but also key in this was beating back his counterattacks and keeping up the supply flow into the region.

Everything started to come together about three months ago, game time, when I was finally able to convert all my 1E aircraft to 2E Helen IIs. The Chinese started dropping like flies. I have over 300 Helens supported by 50 or so Oscar IIs.

I kept the 16th Army in China and drove up from HK into Tuyun in mid 1942 where the Chinese stopped me. I just setup house keeping and forts until the right time. At the same time I massed units of the 11th, 13th, and 23rd armies in the Changsha area, laying siege to this location.

Also, the 1st and 12th armies heavily supported with new units drove on the Sian and over the mountains towards Kienko, stopped by the Chinese just one hex short of Kienko. While they were stopped and drawing all the reinforcements the Mongol Garrison Army with some units form the 1st and 12th armies took Lanchow and all of Eastern China, all the way to the Russian border. Evidently, rjopel moved all his units to defend Lanchow and when I was able to separate it from Chunking, they eventually fell. Those units except the Mongol Garrison Army, which stayed to garrison this large territory, moved onto join their brethren in the drive to Kienko. I had over 1000 guns here and just bombarded every turn, chewing up 2-400 casualties a day according to my reports. They, with some massed air support, eventually broke through into Kienko and into the Chungking plain. Part of these forces split off and are on the outskirts of Chengtu and I expect it to fall shortly.

Back to the 11th, 13th, and 23rd armies around Changsha area. They took Changsha with massed air support before Kienko fell and quickly mopped up this area. Driving the Chinese units in the forests going towards Cluihking (Can’t read the map very well at work, it is hex 79,50). As he reached the forests, I dropped the 3rd and 4th raiding regiments with nearly 100 prep for hex 79,50 and took it quickly, cutting off his supply to these already decimated units. My air decimated his forces as they retreated towards the forests with my armor quickly on his heals leapfrogging with shock attack and reserves. Once into the forests my infantry with artillery quickly continued the pressure, driving them up the road to the east and north into Chungking. I sealed off large numbers of units into Changteh, Kukong, and in the forests west of Ichang.
At the same time my units of the 16th and Southern Armies in Tuyun, which, for a almost a year, had been licking their wounds and prepping for Kweiyang attacked north, quickly overwhelming the defenders and taking Kweiyang in a couple of weeks. They are now using the armor leapfrog and are half way to Kunming with units of the defending Chinese in the forests just south of this road. I am pursing them with my infantry with intents to destroy them.

I was able to have units of the 1st, 12th, 11th, 13th, and 23rd Armies arrive at Chungking within a couple of weeks of each other. The shock attacks across the river were brutal. But I had enough artillery units to keep the Chinese at bay while rebuilding my losses. I sent units around Chungking to enter it and surround it. With my massed air support it was just a matter of time before I reduced it and took it.
Air support consisted of suppression of his air and keeping up on the suppression of his airfields along with ground attacks. These missions were flown out of Sian, Hankow, Wuchang, and Nanning with a balance of Helen’s, Oscars, and recon aircraft to see what was going on out there.

Supply for all this was initially brought into Shanghai from two TFs with ~30k lift each on a rotating basis. What I think helped keep my supply up in the later stages of the campaign was shifting from two TFs to three TFs and having them deliver to Hankow instead and then stopping off on the return leg in Shanghai to pick up resources for the Home Islands. I kept one TF doing a CS from Nagasaki to Shanghai with supply going to China and resources coming back. The other three kept up the Nagasaki-Hankow-Shanghai route. This kept 200k supply a month flowing into the region. It is, after all, all about the rice and bullets!
My situation in Burma is grim. I have been pressed back to the river that runs from Mandalay to Ragoon and don’t know how long the 15th Army can keep the barbarians out. I feel like I have air superiority over my lines as I give as good as I get usually and have more aircraft in the battles than the allies, usually. I have Tony’s, Tojos, some Zeros at Ragoon and just coming online some Georges (which seem like are the only thing that can shoot down those damned Liberators). I am taking more losses from the 4Es than the 1Es overall. Mandalay airfield is a wreck and I have pulled my fighters back to Magwe and Ragoon. I have more AF support at Moulmein with a size 5 AF there that will soon be a size 6.

The Chinese have taken Lashio and are down to Mandalay, but not in it yet. They also have a unit that took Taung Gyi, but I have cut it off with a cav unit just to the east from its supply source, so I don’t think it is going anywhere soon.

I hope to be able to drive on Kunming within two weeks and cut them off just as I am attacking with an airdrop by my 3rd and 4th raiding regiments which have been prepping for Tsiyung for a month, won’t quit be a 100 percent attack, but my recons of this city show no troops. I will be stepping up my air attacks on Kunming just like was done at Changteh and Chungking. Hopefully I will be able to get enough troops over the “hump” and into Burma in time to save it and keep it in my hands for most of the rest of the war.

As for the rest of my now free units, I will move them to Shanghai and Hong Kong for conversion to free HQs and distribution throughout the empire as needed. I only read elsewhere on these board s that I should have converted the units I brought from Manchuko and Kuantang to a free HQ so I wouldn’t have to pay twice. My primary objectives here are lots of troops around the distance it takes for B-29s to bomb the Home Islands. May him pay for every place he wants to go. I know I can’t keep him from them, but make it very costly in both men and materials and delay as long as possible.

Whew… I didn’t mean to make this into such a large post. But, there it is. Please do with it as you wish.


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RE: Chungking Falls! - 12/27/2011 4:16:07 AM   
nashvillen


Posts: 2788
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline
It is now a week later and Changteh has fallen. Numerous Chinese units in the open plains around Chungking are surrendering with significant attacks. We still have quite a few that are in the non-road wooded areas to the game south of Chungking. I have five armored units in Kunming with several divisions (16th and 23rd armies with HQs) there in a day or two. Airborne unit has cut Kunming off from the rest of the Burma area in Tsuyung. The 40th division will be cutting off the retreating Changteh defenders on the Changteh/Tsuyung road. Hopefully I will be able to chase them with the Changteh attackers and eliminate about half of the isolated Chinese units in China.

With Kunming isolated, I hope to take it and then roll on through Tsuyung, re-leaving the brave paras, and driving onto Burma. I am assembling the various parts of the 1st and 2nd Armored divisions and hope to have them assembled and ready to drive into what will be the rear of the attackers trying to drive onto Rangoon. I hold Magwe and Meiktila with 600+ AV each and level 4 forts. I have significant opposition in the form of Australian, British, and Indian divisions. I have 100+ Air Support points on the tracks from Chunghsa to Tuyun where they will detrain and go the 92 miles to Kweiyang where the Chinese have built a nice level 7 airfield for me. I will relocate some of my air there and then move more Air Support up and move more. This I will rinse and repeat up over the hump to support my operations as I go. I also have a large airfield with support at Hanoi providing recon and long range CAP over the moving units.

Overall, I am happy on this progress. I hope to be able to release the 16th Army for garrison of my outer islands shortly as the Americans are in Tarawa and Makin. I have met their newest carriers and have lost the Hosho and Zuihio, but am confident I have sunk 6 of their CVEs, one CVL, and one new Essex class. I suspect I have severely damaged two other Essex class. I have significant damage to my carriers with most of them needing yard time, but I don't expect them to sink (famous last words, I know) I haven't lost any since moving them at cruise speed instead of mission speed. I should be able to assemble a 4 CV group in the next couple of weeks for continued operations while the rest are repaired at Hiroshima/Kobe/Yokohama. It will also give me time to refit them to the latest AAA configuration.

I am keeping the fuel/oil/resources flowing with my extensive ASW campaign. I suspect I have sunk at least a third of the allied subs so far. I think another third are kept in a damaged condition. I am losing 1-2 merchant ships a week and putting out of my shipyards more than that. So, I am keeping up for now. I have concentrated on a interlocking ASW/naval search web from Singapore to the HI and also around all the significant resource/oil/fuel production areas.

I am putting in the HI bank over 4000 HI a day and am well on my way to my second million of banked HI. I hope it is enough to keep me in the war until the end.

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