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RE: East Front Game

 
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RE: East Front Game - 9/20/2012 1:21:45 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Thanks Dave.

I know you always deliver. I also know it will be worth the wait. I'm sure most of us understand that game developing isn't what pays your bills etc and you and the team have to find time etc etc.

AS I said to ComradeP forget about it for abit. As you know Dave I pop along every couple of months to ask how things are moving along and you always tell us whats happening we can't ask for more than that.

If I remember correctly ComradeP had just been invited onto the beta test team for WITE so I expect he was to involved and busy with that to remember the wait for the Bulge game.

Deep down I think everyone knows where still a long way off but sometimes it's difficult to except that when your looking forward to something so much.

< Message edited by wodin -- 9/20/2012 1:23:35 AM >

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Post #: 61
RE: East Front Game - 9/20/2012 8:57:08 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
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Status: offline 		Now that's more realistic! :)

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Post #: 62
RE: East Front Game - 9/20/2012 2:48:20 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for the information.

wodin: yes, I indeed didn't really track the release of BftB due to other commitments. In this case, I was just worried that the game might've been axed or the like, so I'm happy to know that it's still in development. Waiting for a game you know will be released can be difficult, but it isn't half as bad as waiting for a game that may or may not actually be released at some point.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 9/20/2012 2:49:34 PM >

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Post #: 63
RE: East Front Game - 9/21/2012 1:55:48 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Understood. However you have no need for any concern that it wont come out..it will do I'd put money on it. Just a fair way away yet I think.

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Post #: 64
RE: East Front Game - 9/22/2012 9:31:36 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Ah-ha! Put money on it, will you? You have one of those crystal balls I've heard about, Wodin? I'd like to know where to get one too.

I'd put 5 quid on it not being out before 2014. Any takers?


< Message edited by phoenix -- 9/22/2012 9:32:46 AM >

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Post #: 65
RE: East Front Game - 9/26/2012 2:00:02 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Phoenix I said I'd put money on it coming out eventually..why do you think different?

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Post #: 66
RE: East Front Game - 9/26/2012 8:13:55 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Well, all sorts can change in a year and a half. You know how the world is. Economies collapse, people die, get different jobs, whatever. But I'm sure they intend to get it out as soon as feasible. And it's heartening that we're not very far from a COTA conversion and I recall, I think, not so long ago Dave said that that was far down the list of priorities, with no real intention to get it done. Yet it's almost done, I assume. Myself, I really look forward to that because I think COTA has some great battles in it, in an interesting environment. That and the patch to fix the halting will keep me happy for a long while. I started playing Piper's Race, head to head with Hyroda (from here) last week and I must say it's really good to play against a human, very different, much more engrossing. There are the halting issues, but you notice them pretty quickly and give orders to get around them, because you play so slow and carefully head to head (I do, anyway) - because it somehow counts more.....

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Post #: 67
RE: East Front Game - 9/26/2012 7:31:46 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		COTA was the best game in the series so far I feel..as this game like many wargames all depends on how good the scenarios are.. BFTB scenarios in my opinion weren't much fun to play on the whole.

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Post #: 68
RE: East Front Game - 9/29/2012 10:45:49 AM   
Rtwfreak

 

Posts: 324
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Status: offline 		Are you ever going to improve the graphics of the units? I'd really like to see something like in Panzer General style instead of top down nato counters or those other bland counters.

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Post #: 69
RE: East Front Game - 9/29/2012 11:47:47 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Please don't improve them. They're great exactly as they are. I understand your point, RTWfreak, and sympathise, but feel obliged to say that one of the great things about this game, I think - and this is only my useless, worthless opinion, of course - is that they have concentrated on the AI, not on eye candy. Because at the end of the day what they're trying to do is simulate - to some (no doubt very limited) extent, the command experience - the experience of looking at a map and commanding. Not perfect, sure, but it seems to me cardinal that this game is NOT about graphics in that way. The counters have all the info there that you need. They're hard core, make you concentrate on what they're for. Maybe the info could be tweaked (not necessarilly improved) but not in a Panzer General type way. I wouldn't play that game. I think the counters are great!

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Post #: 70
RE: East Front Game - 9/29/2012 1:38:24 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		God please no silly 3d sprites..I mean how could you get any info by looking at them for starters like you can with the counters.

Sorry mate bad request for this game I afraid.

Also remember 3d Sprite makes no sense...remember the counter is an approx of the centre of you force click on it then you see the footprint of the force..again wouldn't work aswell as a sprite.

Panzer general and other turn based games similar like Strategic Command look fine and work well with sprites...this sort of game it would look awful, totally out of keeping with the game mechanics and the overall style and as said how would you get the info you need from them like you can with a counter?

Obviously in the very distant future we may have a game like this where you could zoom in and in until you actually saw all the troops and tanks moving across the battlefield and it look amazing and actually visually represents exactly whats happening within the game...but hey maybe in 25 years or so or even more...

I presume from you name thats Rome Total War??? RTWFreak? If so you need to get more into a wargamers mindset than a game players and then you will start to appreciate the counters etc. SSG games made some great counters for their Battles in series but even those divided opinion..I loved the unit emblem on them..now I'm all for that kind of thing.

Anyway as I said this just isn't the right type of game at all for 3D sprites..they work in some games but wouldn't in this one. Also no way Dave will ever go that direction I'm pretty certain. This is more a hardcore wargame than the more bear and pretzel type game like PG. Hardcore wargamers aren't bothered too much about graphics they are more concerned with info, though I love a good well made map.

< Message edited by wodin -- 9/29/2012 1:50:07 PM >

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Post #: 71
RE: East Front Game - 9/29/2012 2:30:27 PM   
benpark


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Status: offline 		3D maps, on the other hand would be a nice option to have!

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Post #: 72
RE: East Front Game - 9/29/2012 5:55:30 PM   
mitra76

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 5/23/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

Are you ever going to improve the graphics of the units? I'd really like to see something like in Panzer General style instead of top down nato counters or those other bland counters.



What is the meaning to have little pictures in a wargame? Panzer General was a softcore wargame like Panzer Corps now. 2D counters are the more useful things in a hardcore wargame strategic or operational.

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Post #: 73
RE: East Front Game - 9/29/2012 6:16:23 PM   
joeyeti


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/28/2012
Status: offline 		No changes on the counter art please!

I am in a mindset even to vote for german symbology for german units (or for all of them ), but that might be a bit of an overkill, as not many people fancy that style and would not want to learn many more options that that system provides...

I mean this:

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Post #: 74
RE: East Front Game - 9/29/2012 6:59:40 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		3d maps. The google earth overlays are fantastic. The simulation, the game, is a model of commanding units from a map. Why would you need more than the overlays?

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Post #: 75
RE: East Front Game - 9/30/2012 1:46:57 PM   
wodin


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joeyeti

No changes on the counter art please!

I am in a mindset even to vote for german symbology for german units (or for all of them ), but that might be a bit of an overkill, as not many people fancy that style and would not want to learn many more options that that system provides...

I mean this:

This^ please...

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Post #: 76
RE: East Front Game - 10/2/2012 6:10:53 PM   
ewilkie

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/27/2010
Status: offline 		I agree - no sprites or 3D maps needed. However, in real life the 3rd dimension is represented on field maps in the form of contour lines. Learning to read them allows you to see the lay of the land at a glance and to locate details like high ground, ravines, ridges, slopes, etc. I know there is some contour built into the program maps in the form of color changes but for me it blends in with vegetation, marsh, etc. For me, realism still suffers for lack of a good contour overlay.

Just constructive criticism for the only war game I spend money on anymore.

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Post #: 77
RE: East Front Game - 10/2/2012 6:14:02 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		But you have the BFTB google earth overlays, ewilkie? Not what you mean, I know, but they're great for seeing the contours. And they really highlight how accurate the maps are. You might have to exaggerate the scale in the google earth options to get a proper idea - I usually use 1.3.

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Post #: 78
RE: East Front Game - 10/3/2012 5:34:04 AM   
ewilkie

 

Posts: 9
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Status: offline 		Guess I don't know how to do that phoenix. I run the Bulge BattleFieldTour in Google earth but how do you get elevation contours on the 2D map?

I asked for a contour overlay before but Dave said the graphic software they are using did not support transparent overlays - at least that is how I understood it. I was hoping the capability would be added.

Because so much of the game is about planning, I would also like to see the ability to have several transparent overlays that you could switch off and on similiar to Photoshop layers. Then with mouse or tablet input to a pencil with choice of several colors and thickness and an eraser you could quickly sketch out primary and contingency plans before going into the detail of actually giving the orders.

Of course I can do that now with a screen capture and a graphics program or printer, but it would be much nicer in the game since you can easily change map scale and zoom in on specific areas. That way I could be a real general and mark up the map the way I want things to happen and let my aide (my wife?) do the tedious part of computer input. haha!

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Post #: 79
RE: East Front Game - 10/3/2012 8:34:48 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		ewilkie. They are workign on the 'planning overlay' thing you mention, I believe - it's on the list. (Might get into a patch for 2015, I mean, by that.....:))

The google earth overlays - are they not part of the google earth tour? If you've got that loaded then there are boxes to tick to activate them in the google earth sidebar there. I think. Take a look down the side of your google earth screen and tick some boxes. See if that brings them up. They should all be there, named. Mine are a sub folder of the BFTB.kml file that appears there - they are under 'maps' - you need to find that then tick them. There are overlays for COTA somewhere too, though I don't recall where they came from. Anyone help with this? I can't remember at all - where do the overlays come from? Are they part of the google earth tour, or from somewhere separate? They should be available in the downloads section, for sure, because they're brilliant tools, but I couldn't find them anywhere when I looked just now. Anyone help?

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Post #: 80
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 8:09:59 AM   
T-28A


Posts: 812
Joined: 11/1/2002
From: Ukraine
Status: offline 		Hi guys,
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
Re East Front game. Pavel has been very busy with his work for the last few months and has had little if any time to devote to it.

I have not much to add to what Dave said, except that I'm planning to return to active development in a month or two.
Not that screenies are the same as the real game, but... in case you might be interested, here's one from the Kamensk scenario set. It is the starting hours of the Kamensk grand campaign, where ad-hoc Gruppe Baer (commanded by Oberst Karl Baer) alarmed and takes a defensive posture against incoming vanguards of 23rd Tank Corps not seen here (commanded by MajGen/TkTrps Efim Pushkin).


Best regards




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Post #: 81
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 8:45:44 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Oh you great big tease you..

Does this mean the main core game has been done including doctrines or is this just using the COBFTB engine?

Loving the map detail showing streets etc etc...

So are actual individual factories modelled etc? This would be cool for say a Stalingrad Scenario..

< Message edited by wodin -- 10/10/2012 8:49:08 AM >

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Post #: 82
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 8:48:47 AM   
T-28A


Posts: 812
Joined: 11/1/2002
From: Ukraine
Status: offline 		Hi wodin,

It's BFTB for now.


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Post #: 83
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 8:49:31 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
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Status: offline 		OK fair enough.

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Post #: 84
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 9:39:36 AM   
phoenix

 

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Status: offline 		Looks like a lovely map.

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Post #: 85
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 5:35:32 PM   
stardark

 

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Status: offline 		Looking forward to this!

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Post #: 86
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 6:25:29 PM   
wosung

 

Posts: 569
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		Hu? *Urlauber-Kompanie* (soldier on leave) on the screenshoot?

Sounds like top-notch detailed OOB.

Will be interesting to fight with mid-war German *Alarmeinheiten* against Soviet Guard units.

Best regards


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Post #: 87
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 8:43:45 PM   
T-28A


Posts: 812
Joined: 11/1/2002
From: Ukraine
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung
Hu? *Urlauber-Kompanie* (soldier on leave) on the screenshoot?

Exactly Most of the units on the screen from Gruppe Baer were adhoc companies like this one (but of different quality, though), except few reserve (training) companies and railroad engineers.

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Post #: 88
RE: East Front Game - 10/10/2012 10:24:23 PM   
BofH

 

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From: Australia
Status: offline 		Fantastic to see progress on this. Thanks for the bone! :)

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Post #: 89
RE: East Front Game - 1/1/2013 11:07:16 PM   
T-28A


Posts: 812
Joined: 11/1/2002
From: Ukraine
Status: offline 		Ok, let us start a New Year with a pair of new screenshots.

The scenario represents the final chapter of Kamensk campaign, that starts two hours before the dawn, January 21st, 1943. The bulk of XXXXVIII.Panzerkorps opposes the bulk of 3rd Guards Army, in the scenario representing the German counterattack, aimed to cut off Soviet troops wedged into the north-western city districts, and establish the defensive line along the southern bank of Donetz.

As you can see from the screenshot, German forces are a tremendous patchwork of various unit types and formations. Looking attentively at the OoB, you can see how mixed their troops are, even at battalion level, as they were entering the campaign piecemeal.
Units from four distinct formations (7th Panzer, 302nd and 304th Infantry Divisions, and Gruppe Baer) are caught on the screenshot, and there is also the Kampfgruppe from the 6th Panzer Division (KG Quentin), not caught on the screenshot, too.
I expect it will take some time for German player to study the OoB and understand the initial setup before un-pausing the game :)




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