Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week Pride of NationsTo End All Wars Releasing on Steam! Slitherine is recruiting: Programmers requiredPandora: Eclipse of Nashira gets release dateCommunity impressions of To End All WarsAgeod's To End All Wars is now availableTo End All Wars is now available!Deal of the Week: Field of GloryTo End All Wars: Video, AAR and Interview!Ageod's To End All Wars: Video, AAR and Interview!
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Five for Dune

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Advanced Tactics Series >> Opponents Wanted >> RE: Five for Dune Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Five for Dune - 3/7/2012 10:44:29 PM   
hadley


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/22/2011
From: Ohio, USA
Status: offline

It appears ok to me. Did someone fix it? ~ Hadley

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingGuy

Check the DropBox. Something is out of whack. It appears that the turns are out of phase.


(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 61
RE: Five for Dune - 3/8/2012 2:05:14 AM   
hadley


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/22/2011
From: Ohio, USA
Status: offline
BTW... Turn to JReid, just in case you missed it.

(in reply to hadley)
Post #: 62
RE: Five for Dune - 3/8/2012 4:42:44 AM   
jreid

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 10/27/2007
Status: offline
Oh, I saw it You caused some massive destruction last turn.

It's not looking too good for my side at the moment. This double team against me is really knocking me down.

Umm, Eastern Empire, can you see the portions of the map where the Sultinate is attacking me?

Because I think it's time for you to join an alliance against the Sun Empire/Sultinate.

I've had to commit to the war against the Sun Empire pretty much since the beginning of the game, which you can see on the map. this has consumed all of my resources.

But the Sultinate is making massive gains against me in the upper west and east of the map and has a military juggernaut now. He's had all game to build up and is now unleashing his armada on me from two sides, blasting me back. He has high research levels and large numbers of tanks, planes and other assorted goodies.

It may already be too late to stop him, but hey, it's worth a try

Oh, and I uploaded my turn just now. Turn to Jay.






< Message edited by jreid -- 3/8/2012 4:44:11 AM >

(in reply to hadley)
Post #: 63
RE: Five for Dune - 3/8/2012 12:49:06 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1362
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline
Hmmm, I simply ask that you not occupy Sendai as it was my people group. You captured it anyway. I then forced you out and said lets just all get along . Instead you launched a viscous offensive against me and have continued doing so. Now that others have come to my aide and this round that has finally impacted you, you want some mercy . Fun game!

Jeff and Jay, you guys are the toughest opponents and the best allies (and Allan) I've encountered in AT/ATG. Lets see how this game continues to play out. Doug has done an outstanding job retooling to meet the Burgundy onslaught. Jay has rushed in from the south to help blunt the dagger pointed at the heart of my regime. I'd be wiped out if not for Jay and Doug's assistance. If we stick together Burgundy and Germania will be defeated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jreid

Oh, I saw it You caused some massive destruction last turn.

It's not looking too good for my side at the moment. This double team against me is really knocking me down.

Umm, Eastern Empire, can you see the portions of the map where the Sultinate is attacking me?

Because I think it's time for you to join an alliance against the Sun Empire/Sultinate.

I've had to commit to the war against the Sun Empire pretty much since the beginning of the game, which you can see on the map. this has consumed all of my resources.

But the Sultinate is making massive gains against me in the upper west and east of the map and has a military juggernaut now. He's had all game to build up and is now unleashing his armada on me from two sides, blasting me back. He has high research levels and large numbers of tanks, planes and other assorted goodies.

It may already be too late to stop him, but hey, it's worth a try

Oh, and I uploaded my turn just now. Turn to Jay.








_____________________________

Tac2i

(in reply to jreid)
Post #: 64
RE: Five for Dune - 3/8/2012 2:54:52 PM   
hadley


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/22/2011
From: Ohio, USA
Status: offline


quote:

But the Sultinate is making massive gains against me in the upper west and east of the map and has a military juggernaut now. He's had all game to build up and is now unleashing his armada on me from two sides, blasting me back. He has high research levels and large numbers of tanks, planes and other assorted goodies.


I do have home planet advantage, but with that said... Juggernaut?! Armada?! All game to build up?! I've been throwing my guys into the meat grinder almost from the beginning! If there is a potential juggernaut in the game, it has to be Germania. Turn 25 and he hasn't fired a shot! With that much time, he could have nuclear weapons by now! Don't buy what Jeff's selling, Jay! The most dangerous animal is the one that's cornered! (You're right, Roy. Fun game!)

Happy Hunting... ~ Doug

P.S. ~ Assorted goodies? How many PP do they cost?


(in reply to jreid)
Post #: 65
RE: Five for Dune - 3/8/2012 7:01:27 PM   
SailingGuy

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I do have home planet advantage, but with that said... Juggernaut?! Armada?! All game to build up?! I've been throwing my guys into the meat grinder almost from the beginning! If there is a potential juggernaut in the game, it has to be Germania. Turn 25 and he hasn't fired a shot! With that much time, he could have nuclear weapons by now! Don't buy what Jeff's selling, Jay! The most dangerous animal is the one that's cornered! (You're right, Roy. Fun game!)

Happy Hunting... ~ Doug

We just invented the wheel. I still haven't even found my second city yet.

< Message edited by SailingGuy -- 3/8/2012 7:03:03 PM >


_____________________________

Phil
aka SailingGuy

To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant popularity of dogs.
~Aldous Huxley

(in reply to hadley)
Post #: 66
RE: Five for Dune - 3/8/2012 7:22:37 PM   
Jay Doubleyou

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline
Turn to Sailing guy.

Fun game. I think Burgundy/Jeff acted a little too long on his own instead of searching for allies. He is a very good player, but Sultinate and I (Eastern Empire) jumped in just in time to save Sun Empire from annihilation.
I had a horrible starting position, same as Germania. In the south it's just only jungle and paddies. But now I have build up and can support my dear ally Sun Empire a bit. But I have strong forces ready on my borders with Germania in case he joins the fighting.

The key is at Germania, will it stay neutral or will it join the fight. Remaining neutral for too long will be fatal to the alliance Germania/Burgundy.

< Message edited by Jay Doubleyou -- 3/8/2012 7:25:25 PM >

(in reply to hadley)
Post #: 67
RE: Five for Dune [RECRUITING] - 3/8/2012 7:27:02 PM   
SailingGuy

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline
"But the four noble houses recognize the renewed value of Arrakis and have plans of their own. Each will attempt to rule the planet at all costs. And the indigenous Fremen will fight to the death for their independence. Alliances may come and go, but only one power can rule. The next battle for Dune has begun."

Just a reminder. If the triumvirate can prevail, they still have to fight each other for sole control of Dune. There can only be one winner.

_____________________________

Phil
aka SailingGuy

To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant popularity of dogs.
~Aldous Huxley

(in reply to hadley)
Post #: 68
RE: Five for Dune - 3/12/2012 4:37:23 PM   
hadley


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/22/2011
From: Ohio, USA
Status: offline

quote:

We just invented the wheel. I still haven't even found my second city yet.


Jeff is hiding them from you!


(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 69
RE: Five for Dune - 3/12/2012 4:45:21 PM   
hadley


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/22/2011
From: Ohio, USA
Status: offline

What do I have to do to get a star? I don't want to be a recruit anymore... I want to be a Trooper!

~ Hadley

(in reply to hadley)
Post #: 70
RE: Five for Dune - 3/12/2012 6:35:00 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1362
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline
More posts Mr. Hadley, more posts...

quote:

ORIGINAL: hadley


What do I have to do to get a star? I don't want to be a recruit anymore... I want to be a Trooper!

~ Hadley




_____________________________

Tac2i

(in reply to hadley)
Post #: 71
RE: Five for Dune - 3/13/2012 5:01:31 AM   
jreid

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 10/27/2007
Status: offline
Turn to Jay.

(in reply to Webizen)
Post #: 72
RE: Five for Dune - 3/13/2012 10:32:12 PM   
Jay Doubleyou

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline
Burgundy forces try to find cover from attacks coming from 3D directions. But there's no escaping the wrath of Eastern Empire attacks....
Sun Empire soldiers cheer and celebrate the definite rescue of their capital. It greatly boosts morale and it's time to go on the offensive!
Happy hunting!

(in reply to jreid)
Post #: 73
RE: Five for Dune - 3/14/2012 3:01:24 AM   
Webizen


Posts: 1362
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline
Bonsai! Bonsai! Bonsai! A counter-offensive will begin. All I originally wanted was Sendai, my own people group city. Now Sun Empire cities must be recaptured and Burgundian cities must be captured or destroyed. I said very early on to Burgundy that you didn't want a war with me. Thanks to my allies that is now being borne out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jay Doubleyou
Sun Empire soldiers cheer and celebrate the definite rescue of their capital. It greatly boosts morale and it's time to go on the offensive!



_____________________________

Tac2i

(in reply to Jay Doubleyou)
Post #: 74
RE: Five for Dune - 3/22/2012 5:08:39 AM   
SailingGuy

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline
I think the hand writing is on the wall. Burgundy and I won't be able to last long (a year or two) against the Sun Empire-Sultinate-Eastern Empire Alliance. I doubt that either of us will be able to peel away a member of the Triumvirate.

I want to bring this up now, so that there is no misunderstanding later. Prior to wiping us out, it will be necessary for one of the Triumvirate to declare war on another member. This is because the software will declare an Alliance win when Burgundy and Germania are gone. (Webizen can attest to this, as that is what happened in "Five if By Sea", spoiling the finish of that game.)

Since this scenario was designed as an "only one can win" game, you guys will need to work out among yourselves who (and when) the DOW will take place. The fate of Dune rests in your hands.

_____________________________

Phil
aka SailingGuy

To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant popularity of dogs.
~Aldous Huxley

(in reply to Webizen)
Post #: 75
RE: Five for Dune - 3/22/2012 4:28:53 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1362
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline
Actually what will happen is that ATG will declare one of the three a winner and the other two losers. Per Vic this can be ignored and the game can continue as normal. Vic is supposedly going to fix this in the next patch. I hope we see this patch very soon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingGuy

I think the hand writing is on the wall. Burgundy and I won't be able to last long (a year or two) against the Sun Empire-Sultinate-Eastern Empire Alliance. I doubt that either of us will be able to peel away a member of the Triumvirate.

I want to bring this up now, so that there is no misunderstanding later. Prior to wiping us out, it will be necessary for one of the Triumvirate to declare war on another member. This is because the software will declare an Alliance win when Burgundy and Germania are gone. (Webizen can attest to this, as that is what happened in "Five if By Sea", spoiling the finish of that game.)

Since this scenario was designed as an "only one can win" game, you guys will need to work out among yourselves who (and when) the DOW will take place. The fate of Dune rests in your hands.



_____________________________

Tac2i

(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 76
RE: Five for Dune - 3/22/2012 4:59:21 PM   
SailingGuy

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline
Thanks for the update Roy.

Did you play out "5 if by Sea"? Who won?

_____________________________

Phil
aka SailingGuy

To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant popularity of dogs.
~Aldous Huxley

(in reply to Webizen)
Post #: 77
RE: Five for Dune - 3/22/2012 8:40:00 PM   
Jay Doubleyou

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline
We didn't. We just drank German Beer and Nippon Sake untill we too drunk to continue

(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 78
RE: Five for Dune - 3/22/2012 8:49:32 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1362
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline
As I recall we quit the game before Vic responded to my inquiry about the issue. Same thing happened to me in a game shortly after ATG was released. Thought I reported to Vic at that time but perhaps I had forgotten to do so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingGuy

Thanks for the update Roy.

Did you play out "5 if by Sea"? Who won?



_____________________________

Tac2i

(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 79
RE: Five for Dune - 3/22/2012 10:05:48 PM   
SailingGuy

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jay Doubleyou

We didn't. We just drank German Beer and Nippon Sake untill we too drunk to continue

IIRC, my sake was pretty weak.

But you guys did not live up to the parameters of the scenario as it was set up. Let's not have a repeat on Dune.

In games with an odd number of players, it is imperative that the "small" alliance have a chance (slim as it may be) to peel off a member of the "large" alliance. The weakest member of the "large" alliance (seeing his forlorn position) is the one most likely to make the switch in an attempt to gain victory.

But this all becomes moot if the members of the "large" alliance don't fight it out to the end. After they defeat the "small" alliance, they just pat each other on the back and toast their "victory". Such a result goes against the scenario design.

I don't mind losing to a single player who successfully walked the tightrope of military tactics and national diplomacy. I do mind, when ending up on the wrong end of a 3-2 split, if the remaining players don't fight to the end and crown a single victor.

Other game scenarios that allow an alliance victory are an entirely different matter.

_____________________________

Phil
aka SailingGuy

To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant popularity of dogs.
~Aldous Huxley

(in reply to Jay Doubleyou)
Post #: 80
RE: Five for Dune - 3/26/2012 6:55:40 PM   
Webizen


Posts: 1362
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline
@SailingGuy - my memory of this game [5 by sea] has largely faded. That said, I'd just like to add that in practice it is very hard to follow the scenario parameters to the tee when playing a 5 person game with alliances and a single winner. The reasons are several.

1) Once a formal alliance is made you have revealed your entire map and force disposition to the other players. If not disallowed by house rules, you may have given hexes, units or tech to the other players.
2) during the course of play it will invariably break into a 3-2 split and very likely the "2" team will lose.
3) during the course of play, as in Dune, two players have come to the aide of a third player. Units of the other two players are now in territory that once belonged to the player needing aide and converting it to their own territory.
4) While every game is a little different, in Dune for instance, if I where to peal off and join you and Jeff, I'd be almost instantly crushed. Therefore there is no incentive for me to do so (and how to you turn on someone that has saved your butt from certain defeat?).
5) In this type of game the issue would be once you and Jeff surrender or are eliminated is who do I side with, then making it a 2-1 split. The "1" player likely will be the loser. I suppose another possibility is that once the "2" player team becomes a "1" team, then some on the "3" team could break away and make it a 2-2 split. I don't know about others but the investment you make with other players to achieve victory/ward off defeat and the mechanics of ATG just make it very tough to turn on those who have helped you.
6) I'm not sure this is really a reason or how accurate my perception, but this scenario type could potentially result in a very long game. My experience with AT and ATG seems to indicate that most players have a low tolerance for very long games. Certainly most players when they think victory is no longer achievable, choose to surrender and start another game.

General speaking I just don't think the design/mechanics of ATG work very well for a 5 player game with alliances and a single individual winner. It would seem to me the best way to do this is a 5 player game with no formal alliances allowed. You may informally ally with other players. This way there is no shared maps and no giving technology, units or hexes. That would, of course, make it hard to help another directly. What ATG could use is two alliance types: active and passive. Active would be like we have now. Passive simply would allow you to give stuff but not enter another player's territory with your own units or trace supply through their land.

I suppose if the scenario had some incentive for being that single winner (huge trophy, $500 prize, etc.) you'd probably create a different dynamic.

I do like all your various scenario ideas! Perhaps the next edition of AT will add enhanced options for creating fun to play scenarios.

for what is worth, that is my two cents...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingGuy

But you guys did not live up to the parameters of the scenario [5 by Sea] as it was set up. Let's not have a repeat on Dune.



< Message edited by Webizen -- 3/26/2012 8:00:22 PM >


_____________________________

Tac2i

(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 81
RE: Five for Dune - 3/26/2012 7:03:04 PM   
SailingGuy

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen
It would seem to me the best way to do this is a 5 player game with no formal alliances allowed. You may informally ally with other players. This way there is no shared maps and no giving technology, units or hexes.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingGuy

But you guys did not live up to the parameters of the scenario [5 by Sea] as it was set up. Let's not have a repeat on Dune.


I've actually been thinking along those same lines.

_____________________________

Phil
aka SailingGuy

To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant popularity of dogs.
~Aldous Huxley

(in reply to Webizen)
Post #: 82
RE: Five for Dune - 3/30/2012 5:03:58 AM   
jreid

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 10/27/2007
Status: offline
I certainly would go for the no alliance rule I would have done quite a bit better if I could fight just one on one.

If Roy, Jay and Doug just say, hey, good game, after they defeat Phil and I, I don't really see the point of the whole thing.

Obviously, 3 players will beat 2. If the 3 remaining don't intend to fight it out, then we really could have called the game many turns ago as soon as Jay and then Doug allied with Roy. No point in going any further.

I've been ganged up on the whole game and have been trying to do my best. It's been quite difficult. I definately thought that the 3 way alliance would break up at some point.

But no complaints and I'll stick it out till then end and I won't quit. But I did think I was fighting for a reason. I certainly thought there would only be one winner.


(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 83
RE: Five for Dune - 3/30/2012 2:58:20 PM   
Jay Doubleyou

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline
I agree that we must live up to the rules of this game. So only 1 can win.

(in reply to jreid)
Post #: 84
RE: Five for Dune - 3/30/2012 6:41:01 PM   
SailingGuy

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jreid

I certainly would go for the no alliance rule I would have done quite a bit better if I could fight just one on one.

If Roy, Jay and Doug just say, hey, good game, after they defeat Phil and I, I don't really see the point of the whole thing.

Obviously, 3 players will beat 2. If the 3 remaining don't intend to fight it out, then we really could have called the game many turns ago as soon as Jay and then Doug allied with Roy. No point in going any further.

I've been ganged up on the whole game and have been trying to do my best. It's been quite difficult. I definately thought that the 3 way alliance would break up at some point.

But no complaints and I'll stick it out till then end and I won't quit. But I did think I was fighting for a reason. I certainly thought there would only be one winner.

I think Roy (Webizen) would be the most likely candidate to "peel off" from the alliance. But he has already illuminated why he would not. Given that, we may wish to face the inevitable...

I now have to agree with Roy that the problem in "last man standing" type games is allowing ANY alliances what so ever. He put together a very convincing argument in this forum "upstream".

At this point there is very little chance that the two "odd men out" can come back. I will stay on so as to not ruin the game for the two (or three) that have a chance at winning. However, if we want to call the game here, what do you think about a restart (with the exact same parameters), but not allowing alliances?


_____________________________

Phil
aka SailingGuy

To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant popularity of dogs.
~Aldous Huxley

(in reply to jreid)
Post #: 85
RE: Five for Dune - 3/30/2012 11:44:34 PM   
jreid

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 10/27/2007
Status: offline
I say we continue this game and let it play out. We've been playing for a long time. It's been fun

But I'll also join another game with no alliances. That means no formal alliances?

I liked the one town start, no roads, having to explore, etc. aspect of this game a lot.

Would turning off the graphs be an option? Is that desirable?

Thanks for setting these games up, by the way


(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 86
RE: Five for Dune - 3/31/2012 2:12:13 AM   
hadley


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/22/2011
From: Ohio, USA
Status: offline
Hi, Guys!

Kind of late to the conversation. Been laid up all week with a nasty sinus infection, but I'm feeling much better now, thanks for asking...

I'm personally good with whatever you guys decide. With that said, I also agree with Roy's assessment of alliances in a last man standing scenario, especially with an odd number of players. Perhaps they would be more fair if at least the number in each alliance were the same. My preference is for no alliances at all. (Although it just dawned on me that most of what I've learned playing the game has been taught to me by alliance members. Thanks!)

I'll just throw this out as another possible alternative... What if when the game has become a three person game, the three do a restart on maybe a smaller map with tech already available. This would solve the problem of knowing everything about your former alliance member's situation, and maybe speed up the remainder of the game? Just a thought... (BTW...I'm NOT assuming who the three would be. The minority at this point is still a dangerous threat in my mind!)

I'm also willing to dissolve the alliance and just go at it, provided I'm one of the three. What would happen if the remaining three all ate the poison berries? (Vague Hunger Games reference... ) Let's try to come to a conclusion before my next turn. I need to know whether or not to give my alliance members my bomber tech...

Happy Hunting! ~ Doug


(in reply to jreid)
Post #: 87
RE: Five for Dune - 4/1/2012 10:35:59 AM   
Jay Doubleyou

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline
The game is fun, so I suggest we continue.
Restarting it will take a lot of time before the game becomes interesting again.
If you restart a game without alliances, please choose different terrain settings, as 2 players were surrounded by horrible terrain.

(in reply to hadley)
Post #: 88
RE: Five for Dune - 4/1/2012 1:28:25 PM   
SailingGuy

 

Posts: 483
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jay Doubleyou

The game is fun, so I suggest we continue.
Restarting it will take a lot of time before the game becomes interesting again.
If you restart a game without alliances, please choose different terrain settings, as 2 players were surrounded by horrible terrain.

I think the key is to start WITH roads. If that had been the case in this game, my situation would not have been so deplorable. I spent most of this game building roads and searching for my German cities.

Another option is to start with shroud OFF.

_____________________________

Phil
aka SailingGuy

To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant popularity of dogs.
~Aldous Huxley

(in reply to Jay Doubleyou)
Post #: 89
RE: Five for Dune - 4/1/2012 1:33:08 PM   
hadley


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/22/2011
From: Ohio, USA
Status: offline
Hi, guys!

My turn is up, but I'm out of town until Monday morning. I'll play it as soon as I get back.

Happy Hunting! ~ Doug

(in reply to SailingGuy)
Post #: 90
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Advanced Tactics Series >> Opponents Wanted >> RE: Five for Dune Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.106