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Zooming - 12/10/2011 8:19:31 PM   
Omnax

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/14/2011
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Hello, I have one question for all of you guys... I have just watched this vid on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgNsTgSHLVE

And one thing which really striked me was, how fast and smooth he is zooming in and out. Now, I always thought thats it was an engine which do not react fast enough to different zoom levels, but I do have it much slower on my computer then he has in his video. I would even call it sluggish, and it gets even worse if I put nebula details on high, I was trying figure out why is that, but could not find any solution yet.

Does anyone ever had similar problem? Is there any settings in nvidia panel, in windows or something like that, which would help me to get such a fast and smooth zooming as that guy has? Would really appreciated it.

Just for an information, my specs:

Win 7 64x
Icore 7 at 3,4ghz
Geforce gtx 570
6Gb ram
etc...

I do have very good PC, so its definitely not my computer. before someone suggest to update drivers etc. I do have all drivers up to date, for every singl piece of hardware in my computer, also I do not have any problems with any other game. So any help, advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.
Post #: 1
RE: Zooming - 12/10/2011 9:08:36 PM   
Emir Agic


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
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I have already posted this in tech forum but I think it is useful to repeat it here:

In some strategy games which I play (War in the East, Combat Mission: SF...) there is sluggish UI and performance, regardless of in-game video settings. As I have decent configuration (Intel i5, 4GB RAM, GTX275) I wondered what is causing such sluggishness. Finally I have found answer: Some games simply don't like multi-core processors. For example, after I forced WiTE to use only single core there was observable improvement in UI responsiveness. Forcing CM: SF to single core raised fps from 20 to 30 at same video settings.

So, if you have multi-CPU try to set processor affinity for Distant Worlds to single core and see if that will improve UI responsiveness. Let us know about results.

(in reply to Omnax)
Post #: 2
RE: Zooming - 12/10/2011 9:18:09 PM   
WiZz

 

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From: Ukraine
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A game in that video was created with small amount of stars (400). It explains absence of lags...

(in reply to Emir Agic)
Post #: 3
RE: Zooming - 12/10/2011 9:36:22 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 33183
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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Hi everyone,

It's not a multi-core issue, multiple cores will actually help Distant Worlds. What you are describing was an issue with some of the older game engines. The majority of the reports we've seen on this involved Intel chipsets with nVidia cards, so our assumption is that something in that combination is a bit slower in handling the graphics in Distant Worlds. One suggestion to try may be to update the motherboard/chipset drivers. Here's one report that may apply:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/308196-33-received-performance-expected#t2358369

On our Intel/nVidia test system here, zooming looks like it does in that video. Same thing on our AMD/ATI test system, so I'm not sure if there's a common cause, if it could be related to certain system or driver settings or what have you. If you are experiencing unusually poor performance, posting a DxDiag for us in the tech support forum would be helpful.

Your galaxy settings will also have a big impact on performance. 1400 star galaxies will not perform like smaller galaxies except on very, very powerful systems.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 12/10/2011 9:37:06 PM >


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Emir Agic)
Post #: 4
RE: Zooming - 12/10/2011 10:18:49 PM   
Omnax

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/14/2011
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Thank you very much for replies. I have tried to change all the settings in nvidia profiles. Also tried to run the game as administrator. Did not help, forced it to use only one core, did not help. I also checked if exe file can handle more then 2GB ram and it can. Game does utilize more cores sometimes, however none of them is at maximum. Which is not suprising.

So I have tried different settings inside the game. And read faq in tech forum, then realized that this topic should go there, so I am sorry for that.

Star Density had no effect, But I have found out that I can turn nebula off completely and it helped alot !! It is much better now, however I do still get slowdown if I zoom very close to the sun (it does not happen if I zoom to any other object like planets, moons ships etc.... Only suns). So it can be something with its corona effect, which might be similar to the nebula one. But that is just an guess.

I think we can all agree that on my computer it should be running flawlessly. Thank you for your advice on driver updates. But as I have already said, I do have latest drivers for everything including chipset drivers.

However I do have intel chipset, so I did check your link erik and went to have a look if there is any newer update for my bios. Yes there is one, but its really small, just one fix, which do not mention anything with slowdowns. Its just support for newer CPU. Also, I do not feel like it to try it out, as I would have to flash my bios, and I do have overclocked CPU, and set up proper timings for rams etc... and that would mean loosing all the settings. I can write them down... but I do not think it would help, because I would experience similar slowdowns in other games, and I do not.

So I guess something inside game do not like something about my computer, as it does not seem to be wide spread problem it will be very hard to figure it out what it is. Delay when zooming in and out is really annoying for me and also it does shutter screen when scrolling.

Guess for now, no nebulas will have to do. If anyone will come with a solution I would be very happy. Cheers :-)

Ps: Is there any way to check FPS inside the game? I have tried fraps and one other program and could not get it show up. Would like to see how much it does affect FPS. I will try to post dxdiag for you in tech forum. Will use same topic name.

< Message edited by Omnax -- 12/10/2011 10:21:23 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 5
RE: Zooming - 12/10/2011 11:25:44 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 1982
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
Use step zoom on the mini map and the ctrl zoom.Using mouse zoom can drag on large,star maps no matter your power.

(in reply to Omnax)
Post #: 6
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 12:36:03 AM   
Emir Agic


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's not a multi-core issue, multiple cores will actually help Distant Worlds.




Ok, I have tested this. Updated to latest Nvidia and Intel drivers. Results: 4 cores - about 30 fps, 1 core - about 50 fps. Improvement - 66%

@Omnax - In FRAPS enable option "Monitor Aero desktop (DWM)".

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 7
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 7:57:56 AM   
Omnax

 

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quote:


@Omnax - In FRAPS enable option "Monitor Aero desktop (DWM)".


Where did you get such an option in FRAPS? I have downloaded newest version and can not find it.



quote:


Use step zoom on the mini map and the ctrl zoom.Using mouse zoom can drag on large,star maps no matter your power.


Well, I know i can use that, however, something is telling me that this thing is slowing whole game down, so it would be nice to get rid of it.

(in reply to Emir Agic)
Post #: 8
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 8:25:48 AM   
Emir Agic


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnax
quote:


@Omnax - In FRAPS enable option "Monitor Aero desktop (DWM)".


Where did you get such an option in FRAPS? I have downloaded newest version and can not find it.








Attachment (1)

(in reply to Omnax)
Post #: 9
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 8:52:13 AM   
Omnax

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/14/2011
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Did not have it there :-). Because I did turn off aero in windows 7. Going to check my FPS now :-)

NEBULA:
Slightly lower FPS if I am not zooming. However, if I do have them on, every single time i zoom in or out, my FPS drops to about half and then goes up. This does not happen when I turn them off completely. So this is the reason why its causing slowdown when zooming. Happens on all zoom levels as long as I can see it.

SUN:
One sun can lower my FPS to half, if I zoom in very close...From 110 to 50. There are also FPS spikes just after zooming in or out to about half of my FPS. So if I zoom as close as I can I do get for a while 30fps instead of 50 and small lag.

GAS CLOUDS:
Same like a sun. However FPS drop starting to happen when I have got zoomed much further. But not all the time like with nebulas. Same FPS spikes as with Nebula or sun.


Another thing, Framerate Limiter is not working.


Now, 50fps should be smooth. However I have got a feeling like game, engine or whatever stops for a while. Thats why my FPS goes down and then back to normal levels and that is what causing all the delays and lags. Also during lag nothing is moving (ships, planets etc)


ANOTHER UPDATE:

Same lag happens if turn on or off different filters for star map:
Show empire influence and Show Long Range scanners being worst. Rest are normal, or with minimal effect.

Same goes for opening different screens:

SLOW:
Colonies
Expansion Planer
Game Editor
Build order
Construction Yard
Ship and bases screen
Fleet and troop screen

FAST:
Galactopedia
Characters
Diplomacy
Empire Summary
Research
Design Screen

I have checked all this with a new quick start, and Fully developed - Large settings.

< Message edited by Omnax -- 12/11/2011 3:53:06 PM >

(in reply to Emir Agic)
Post #: 10
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 9:36:11 AM   
Emir Agic


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Status: offline
@Omnax - Please try to measure FPS with only single core. In my case this helped a lot as game go much more smoothly when scrolling and zooming.

(in reply to Omnax)
Post #: 11
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 9:59:20 AM   
Omnax

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/14/2011
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I have tried to use only one core. It made no difference regarding zooming, my fps went a bit lower. However when I had only one core on, it was at 100% usage nearly all the time. If I have all of them on (4) they are being used from about 30% it does not go much higher.

If I do quick start with a fully developed large empire and zoom all the way out and have all the settings in options on. I do have about 25 to 30fps on the map. Which is not really much to be honest.


(in reply to Emir Agic)
Post #: 12
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 3:26:47 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 33183
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Hi Emir,

That's very unusual, could you upload a DxDiag for us in the support sub-forum please?

Omnax,

Thank you for the testing and your report.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Omnax)
Post #: 13
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 3:38:44 PM   
Omnax

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/14/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Emir,

That's very unusual, could you upload a DxDiag for us in the support sub-forum please?

Omnax,

Thank you for the testing and your report.

Regards,

- Erik


Hi Erik,

I have already posted it. You can find it here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2979297

A can even send a newer one. As I have updated firmware on my SSD disk, and reverted back to previous beta drivers from NVIDIA. I had some problems with latest ones. However, performance is still the same.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 14
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 4:09:27 PM   
Emir Agic


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnax
Hi Erik,

I have already posted it. You can find it here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2979297


Erik, I also posted DxDiag in Omnax's thread in Tech Forum.

(in reply to Omnax)
Post #: 15
RE: Zooming - 12/11/2011 4:18:08 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 33183
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Thanks to both of you.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Emir Agic)
Post #: 16
RE: Zooming - 1/5/2012 3:11:07 AM   
Astax

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
I made a beast this July, and it runs the game fabulous on highest settings.  Yes sometime zooming can be not as fast as I'd like, but overall its pretty smooth.  I have Intel and ATI card, cause the Nvidia piece of crap I bought for $320 died in 6 weeks, and then its replacement died in 2 weeks.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 17
RE: Zooming - 1/5/2012 6:08:19 AM   
Gandalf


Posts: 237
Joined: 12/15/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic

I have already posted this in tech forum but I think it is useful to repeat it here:

In some strategy games which I play (War in the East, Combat Mission: SF...) there is sluggish UI and performance, regardless of in-game video settings. As I have decent configuration (Intel i5, 4GB RAM, GTX275) I wondered what is causing such sluggishness. Finally I have found answer: Some games simply don't like multi-core processors. For example, after I forced WiTE to use only single core there was observable improvement in UI responsiveness. Forcing CM: SF to single core raised fps from 20 to 30 at same video settings.

So, if you have multi-CPU try to set processor affinity for Distant Worlds to single core and see if that will improve UI responsiveness. Let us know about results.


If it were simply the case that "Some games don't like multi-core processors", then my Intel i7 six-core 980 should be choking itself on those types of games, Distant Worlds included. I've no reason to doubt that setting the affinity to use only a single core might help some users but there could also be some other underlying design feature regarding chipset integration or motherboard design that is being affected by some side effect of the affinity selection.

In other words, if the affinity setting works, great... but I wouldn't draw the conclusion that those games are averse to multi-core processors when there are obviously multi-core systems that have absolutely no issues with these games.

(in reply to Emir Agic)
Post #: 18
RE: Zooming - 1/5/2012 6:25:31 AM   
nickwwest

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 11/26/2011
Status: offline
I posted my DxDiag in the tech thread also. In system scroll speed seems pretty good (when system nebule are turned off), makes me think maybe it's the galaxy background or just the quantity of images that are being rendered. If DW is using a 2D renderer, it's not uncommon for modern graphics cards to poorly support 2D rendering:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/2d-windows-gdi,2547-5.html

AI War switched over to the Unity engine, I'm sure it costs money but that game gives me 0 issues and is equally graphically complex with rendering 2d images.

Also I tried updating my mobo drivers, already have the latest gfx drivers, tried using my SSD, disabling Aero. All no luck :(

(in reply to Gandalf)
Post #: 19
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