RE: New HPS Release

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RE: New HPS Release

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 3:36:38 PM

Yogi the Great

Posts: 1017
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

Initial reports on Usenet indicate a lot of freezes and C++ crashes in addition to a cumbersome UI

.. not that this comes as a surprise to anyone who witnessed the PoA 2 debacle

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Yeah, I have seen several postings about problems. Another reason that waiting may be a good option. No matter how innovative and/or promising a game sounds, crashes, freezes and failures aren't worth the hassle to me. I do have more HPS titles then any other company, but those are the more tried and classic style campaign series (panzer, civil war, etc) and squad battles.

(in reply to sterckxe)

Post #: 31

RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 10:21:26 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

I think I counted some were around thirty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

How many scenarios come with the game?

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to sabre1)

Post #: 32

RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 10:26:54 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

I haven't had one problem yet......cross my fingers......so its not happening to everyone.

Alot of them didn't let the game install to its default path-I did and the game plays fine for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

Initial reports on Usenet indicate a lot of freezes and C++ crashes in addition to a cumbersome UI

.. not that this comes as a surprise to anyone who witnessed the PoA 2 debacle

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Yeah, I have seen several postings about problems. Another reason that waiting may be a good option. No matter how innovative and/or promising a game sounds, crashes, freezes and failures aren't worth the hassle to me. I do have more HPS titles then any other company, but those are the more tried and classic style campaign series (panzer, civil war, etc) and squad battles.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Yogi the Great)

Post #: 33

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 1:55:07 AM

sabre1

Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline

Well I loved TOP and PITS, so I will probably bite but like others probably after Christmas. I will continue to read reviews and keep an eye on it.

I just got done buying Panzer Corps 39-41, Armada and expansion, BA Market Garden. I would like to pick up DW Legends, Unity of Command. It's a good time to be a wargamer.

Oh yeah, before I forget, Merry Christmas everyone.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)

Post #: 34

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 2:10:21 AM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

Same back to ya- Merry Christmas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Well I loved TOP and PITS, so I will probably bite but like others probably after Christmas. I will continue to read reviews and keep an eye on it.

I just got done buying Panzer Corps 39-41, Armada and expansion, BA Market Garden. I would like to pick up DW Legends, Unity of Command. It's a good time to be a wargamer.

Oh yeah, before I forget, Merry Christmas everyone.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to sabre1)

Post #: 35

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 3:27:41 AM

Gary Childress

Posts: 4815
Joined: 7/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
The HPS & Tiller graphics discussion comes up every time we have a new release. I like nice graphics, but the game is what is important. It seems that a lot of people feel a game must have great graphics to be worthwhile. In actuality, graphics are eye candy to fool us into believing a game is good.

That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

The discussion comes up every time because HPS & Tiller graphics are exceptionally pathetic. I agree that graphics aren't everything and gameplay is important but this is ridiculous.

(in reply to Yogi the Great)

Post #: 36

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 4:11:41 AM

Prince of Eckm�hl

Posts: 2448
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

The discussion comes up every time because HPS & Tiller graphics are exceptionally pathetic. I agree that graphics aren't everything and gameplay is important but this is ridiculous.

Let me share an annecdote regarding just how dire this whole graphics-deal has become from the standpoint of someone who has bought some of these games and tried to play them...

As some of our readers may have noted, I've posted numerous comments here, and elsewhere, praising the 2010 release by HPS of its Midway game. There came a point where I was so enamored of the virtues of the program that I decided to do an in-depth AAR of Midway with an eye toward posting said AAR at various gaming-sites. Suffice it to say, my intention was to encourage embrace of its several strengths.

However, when I tried to create a series of screen-captures to include in the AAR, I found that they were completely unusable when taken at a resolution of 1920x1200. The little blue and red dots that represent ships were so small as to be virtually invisible in the JPG files that I created to go with narrative.

LOL, I spent an afternoon, or so, trying to dream-up some sort of euphemism to explain away the phenomena. However, after a little sober reflection, I decided that the world would be a better place if I simply kept my mouth shut. A few hours later, I deleted my work believing that, were I to detail any of what I had engaged in on behalf of the game, I'd likely do it more harm than good.

These are tough-times for developers of computer wargames, but they're not particularly great for their customers, either.

< Message edited by Prince of Eckm�hl -- 12/13/2011 4:51:27 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Gary Childress)

Post #: 37

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 8:27:54 AM

wodin

Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

I got a refund for Tigers which was great service by HPS.

I installed it to C drive but had loads of C++ errors. Also the default and NATO symbols weren't working. Finally the game appeared to have more or less no real AI. I stormed through a 3 rated difficulty scenario on the highest settings. I'm talking no challenge at all.

I love the concept, I just hope Scott gets it fixed but it's been eight years with this engine now and still the same problem (actually it's worse with Tigers than PoA2) so I don't have much confidence. Also I hope the AI is better than it appeared if it ever gets fixed and some clever spark makes a decent Stalingrad scenario (sadly missing) and any othe rbugs get fixed oh and just a little mod spruce up of the graphics (I hated the wreckage counters of modern day tanks) then I shall buy it again. Like I said the concept is superb and the detail amazing.

(in reply to Prince of Eckm�hl)

Post #: 38

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 9:20:00 AM

RyanCrierie

Posts: 1067
Joined: 10/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckm�hl

Let me share an annecdote regarding just how dire this whole graphics-deal has become from the standpoint of someone who has bought some of these games and tried to play them...

The real problem is the UI -- something we can't mod to work smoother.

I put together an image to show the issues I have with HPS style UIs:

Hopefully it clarifies some of my issues; and maybe HPS/Tiller will read it and take it to heart.

_____________________________

My Website with cool bits and pieces!

(in reply to Prince of Eckm�hl)

Post #: 39

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 10:37:32 AM

wodin

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Yeah but TOAW has the most complicated turn system I've yet come across. I find JT games to be rather easy with regards to the UI.

(in reply to RyanCrierie)

Post #: 40

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 12:17:42 PM

sterckxe

Posts: 4593
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckm�hl
These are tough-times for developers of computer wargames,

Mostly self-inflicted. You'd have to *pay* me to play 3/4ths of what got released this year. Luckily board wargame publishers seem to have gotten the message that playability, good graphics and originality sells games. The only place where seventies SPI-style boardgames are still getting produced is on the computer ...

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Prince of Eckm�hl)

Post #: 41

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 11:20:54 PM

rosseau

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Joined: 9/13/2009
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Great, so from what Wodin said, I shouldn't be looking forward to my copy of Tigers Unleashed that's in the mail right now. I trusted Scott Hamilton and I cannot understand how they could ship it out in this condition. It will absolutely kill any further sales of the game once the word hits the street. I guess I'll leave it in the box for a year and see what happens.

(in reply to sterckxe)

Post #: 42

RE: New HPS Release - 12/13/2011 11:47:43 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
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I am actually enjoying the game.....so far that hasn't been my esperience all....not saying it wasn't for Wodin. But my install went great no c++ errors. I have played alot worst ai's.....(I don't think the ai is the bad). Don't no yet wether its up to the speed of COTA. so I would take it out of the box and see what you think.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Great, so from what Wodin said, I shouldn't be looking forward to my copy of Tigers Unleashed that's in the mail right now. I trusted Scott Hamilton and I cannot understand how they could ship it out in this condition. It will absolutely kill any further sales of the game once the word hits the street. I guess I'll leave it in the box for a year and see what happens.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to rosseau)

Post #: 43

RE: New HPS Release - 12/14/2011 1:58:24 AM

rosseau

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Thanks Titan. Gives me some hope there. And HPS does patches very well.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)

Post #: 44

RE: New HPS Release - 12/14/2011 8:49:08 AM

wodin

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Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
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Titan don't get me wrong the concept is superb. I enjoy POA2 so it wasn't the gameplay thats the problem.

However how about 40 direct hits of 20mm HE on an engineer platoon for no damage...and in larger scenarios eventually the sounds get confused and it plays the wrong weapon sounds. Or 3 out of 4 STUKAS shot down by a rifle. Of 20 direct hits on infantry by an MG for no dmamage...how does that happen? The weapon results alone are a massive concern.

I went into the Data Viewer to check that out and looked at the Ammo. Only for a warning message to come up with a huge list of ammo that had no kinetic energy values inputed. Either it's supposed to say that or there is a big problem with unfilled data tables.

The UI hasn't been tailored in anyway for a WW2 game and is really the POA2 UI, I had a flamethrower unit with a damaged ECM and damaged chemical protection. Also two boxes that where greyed out and said not used where ticked aswell. So something isn't right there.

They haven't even bothere to use a shell icon sybol for inflight shells, instead it's an Arty counter, I was wondering why I had a heavy Arty unit right out front only to find it was a shell in flight. The symbols are all messed up. There are two versions in the folders and the game must be getting confused. For planes you have flying armoured cars even though there are icons in the folders for planes (well on one of the symbol sets anyway). If you use Nato some will change others wont. Surely things this obvious must hav ebeen spotted by BETA testers? If they haven't bothered fixing that before release what else have they left?

I played at the highest levels of FoW and difficulty, then used manouvre groups, I bet you if you start doing things with the Officer tabs you will run into errors as thats where they start. Oh and I'm not sure why in the highest FOW setting your able to see in the combat reposrts exactly how much damage your troops are causing.

The concept is amazing but this is a rushed bit of work that doesn't do it justice. Seriously try the Thor scenario as the German 3 difficulty no problem. Or dont use composite unitsand try a larger scenario, I'd be surprised you managed to complete it before a C++ errors especially if you rely on your Officer tabs and use them alot! Another constant error whilst using the Officer tabs after trying to expand them is grid out of range error, which then means everyhting from the Officer tabs dissapears and doesn't come back...end of scenario...when you've just put a few hours into setting up all the SOP's for your units it's the height of frustration. Save and save often is all I can say.

The more I played the more it became obvious. Since Tiller left I expect they are short of money, so they threw some WW2 east front scenarios together and a OOB and TOE into POA2 and put it out for sale as a new game...my god even the sounds are the same ones for POA2, the damage tab is and most of it has no relevance to the period. It explains why the game came out of the Blue like it did. I can't imagine more than six months has been spent on it. They knew many out there wanted a WW2 game using the PoA2 engine so knew it would make abit of money. I also believe they knew it wasn't upto to scratch, maybe thats why they gave me a refund as promptly as they did. POA2 wasn't that stable as it was and doing what they've done to it has broke it even more. PoA 2 is far more stable on my PC. For me anyway I haven't yet played a game thats in such a mess. Maybe I'v ebeen lucky I'm not sure but the game is a car crash. The more I looked the more I saw things not quite right or glaringly wrong. The initial installation poblem and having to install it to C drive was minor compared to how the game started to act up and play out. Seriously if you have problems with it and going the fact the game really is already eight years old I'd ask for a refund. Do what i did, get a refund then hope and pray eventually it gets fixed and buy it back again.

Such a crying shame. More than any other release this year I so wanted this when I heard it was being released. Blimey go over to the POA2 forum at gamesquad and see how many years I#ve been pestering for a WW2 version. I was willing even to forgive some minor bugs and problems at release, but what I saw the conclusions I came to made me totally disheartened and to a point a little conned (though to be fair HPS gave me a refund instantly). If it hadn't taken eight years to get PoA2 more or less stable I'd be confident it will get sorted, but to me it seems Tigers is in a worse state and not putting some effort into the UI to make it fit into WW2 is shocking. If I was Scott I'd be damn embarrassed about asking what will really be $59.99 for POA2 not working well with WW2 scenarios and OOB\TOE. I can only hope they put alot more effort into it, make the UI relevant to the period and go through the game with a tooth comb to squash the bugs and check the ballistics etc etc. More than anythign I want the game it should be.

The good news is though Panther Games have released alittle info on their next title. East front aorund Winterstorm. Hurrah.

< Message edited by wodin -- 12/14/2011 9:11:23 AM >

(in reply to rosseau)

Post #: 45

RE: New HPS Release - 12/14/2011 6:04:33 PM

Bletchley_Geek

Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Such a crying shame. More than any other release this year I so wanted this when I heard it was being released. Blimey go over to the POA2 forum at gamesquad and see how many years I#ve been pestering for a WW2 version. I was willing even to forgive some minor bugs and problems at release, but what I saw the conclusions I came to made me totally disheartened and to a point a little conned (though to be fair HPS gave me a refund instantly). If it hadn't taken eight years to get PoA2 more or less stable I'd be confident it will get sorted, but to me it seems Tigers is in a worse state and not putting some effort into the UI to make it fit into WW2 is shocking. If I was Scott I'd be damn embarrassed about asking what will really be $59.99 for POA2 not working well with WW2 scenarios and OOB\TOE. I can only hope they put alot more effort into it, make the UI relevant to the period and go through the game with a tooth comb to squash the bugs and check the ballistics etc etc. More than anythign I want the game it should be.

This is the kind of concrete info I'd been looking for about this thing over at wargamer forums... with this and what I found out reading the comments on usenet, I'm pretty much convinced this was actually more of a booby trap rather than a wargame. I'm not going to touch this even with a stick.

_____________________________

Real men go to war on Real tanks

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 46

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 12:49:24 AM

rosseau

Posts: 801
Joined: 9/13/2009
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If this is what it's like, I'll be happy to get a credit from NWS, although I have most of the HPS games anyway.

(in reply to Bletchley_Geek)

Post #: 47

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 1:15:41 AM

wodin

Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
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There is a new patch that has stopped alot of the C++ errors. So it's looking a little brighter.

I reported everything I found. If they get it right it will be a srupeb game. lets keep our fingers crossed.

(in reply to rosseau)

Post #: 48

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 2:04:07 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
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From: arkansas
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This is a size 7 battle-FOG 3-Difficulty 3- No C++ errors at all. So what do you guys think. I will test and run some size 10 battle later when I have the time.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 49

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 2:29:58 PM

Bletchley_Geek

Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
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Checking the attachment made me feel the urge to write an script to make sense out of it :)

Anyways, these caught my attention:

quote:

Firing Unit: Platoon of Vehicle. All Moving. Face: Unk. Loc: Hex: 662 (6, 16)
Fire Grp: 0 Trg No: 0
Wpn: 7.92mm MG 34 Machinegun VEH Ammo: 7.92mm x 57 Ball
Target: D USSR Mot 45mm AT Btty 1941-42 Group (Loc: Hex: 597 (23, 14))
Range: 1707m. 68 % of max (DF).

Burst: 1 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.56%

Burst: 2 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.12%

Burst: 3 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 21.68%

Burst: 4 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.56%

Burst: 5 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 21.9%

Burst: 6 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.34%

Burst: 7 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.34%

Burst: 8 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 21.68%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: 1.7 Damage: 1.00 Supn: 3.0
Result: no damage
Projections: Kill: 1.7 Damage: 1.00 Supn: 3.0
Result: no damage

Burst: 9 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.12%

Burst: 10 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.34%

A MG34 doing a "1.7 kill" (excuse me?) on a dug-in (is that what the D does stand for?) 45mm ATG from over 1 kilometer away?

quote:

Firing Unit: 1st USSR Rifle Pln 1942 Group (Loc: Hex: 303 (16, 7))
Fire Grp: 0 Trg No: 0
Wpn: 7.62mm Mosin-Nagant carbine Ammo: 7.62mm x 54R AP/I M40
Target: Platoon of StuG B 7.5cm/24 Kanone (StuG III). All Moving. Face: E. Loc: Hex: 622 (7, 15)
Range: 1104m. 36 % of max (DF).

Round: 1
Accy: 98.99%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: - Damage: - Supn: 0.20

Round: 2
Accy: 96.99%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: - Damage: - Supn: 0.20

Round: 3
Accy: 99.99%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: - Damage: - Supn: 0.20

Round: 4
Accy: 96.99%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: - Damage: - Supn: 0.20

Rifle fire at about 1km away having an effect? (Though it seems small)

Besides that, why would an infantry force uncover their position to an attacking mechanized force by shooting their weapons at an extreme range? It doesn't make sense to me at all

_____________________________

Real men go to war on Real tanks

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)

Post #: 50

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 3:23:49 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

It looks like a MG was firing at long distance would put it at cyclic rate(57 rounds)(M-60 had a max effect at 1100 metes) at a dug in target- who returned fire with one killed and one seriously wounded(within the russia unit). What do you think? Seems feasible to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

Checking the attachment made me feel the urge to write an script to make sense out of it :)

Anyways, these caught my attention:

quote:

Firing Unit: Platoon of Vehicle. All Moving. Face: Unk. Loc: Hex: 662 (6, 16)
Fire Grp: 0 Trg No: 0
Wpn: 7.92mm MG 34 Machinegun VEH Ammo: 7.92mm x 57 Ball
Target: D USSR Mot 45mm AT Btty 1941-42 Group (Loc: Hex: 597 (23, 14))
Range: 1707m. 68 % of max (DF).

Burst: 1 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.56%

Burst: 2 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.12%

Burst: 3 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 21.68%

Burst: 4 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.56%

Burst: 5 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 21.9%

Burst: 6 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.34%

Burst: 7 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.34%

Burst: 8 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 21.68%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: 1.7 Damage: 1.00 Supn: 3.0
Result: no damage
Projections: Kill: 1.7 Damage: 1.00 Supn: 3.0
Result: no damage

Burst: 9 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.12%

Burst: 10 (2 Rounds)
Accy: 22.34%

A MG34 doing a "1.7 kill" (excuse me?) on a dug-in (is that what the D does stand for?) 45mm ATG from over 1 kilometer away?

quote:

Firing Unit: 1st USSR Rifle Pln 1942 Group (Loc: Hex: 303 (16, 7))
Fire Grp: 0 Trg No: 0
Wpn: 7.62mm Mosin-Nagant carbine Ammo: 7.62mm x 54R AP/I M40
Target: Platoon of StuG B 7.5cm/24 Kanone (StuG III). All Moving. Face: E. Loc: Hex: 622 (7, 15)
Range: 1104m. 36 % of max (DF).

Round: 1
Accy: 98.99%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: - Damage: - Supn: 0.20

Round: 2
Accy: 96.99%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: - Damage: - Supn: 0.20

Round: 3
Accy: 99.99%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: - Damage: - Supn: 0.20

Round: 4
Accy: 96.99%
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: - Damage: - Supn: 0.20

Rifle fire at about 1km away having an effect? (Though it seems small)

Besides that, why would an infantry force uncover their position to an attacking mechanized force by shooting their weapons at an extreme range? It doesn't make sense to me at all

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Bletchley_Geek)

Post #: 51

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 3:29:07 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

Here is one more-size 10 battle-FOG 3- Difficulty 3. No C++ errors-sounds working. What do you think?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to sterckxe)

Post #: 52

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 3:40:00 PM

Bletchley_Geek

Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

The M-60 was a quite different thing, in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
What do you think? Seems feasible to me.

In a firing range, it would be at the extreme envelope of effectiveness. With a tripod and really good eye. While firing at a stationary, relatively big bullseye. Then I'd say just perhaps. But I doubt what kind of effect would have on the target.

In combat conditions, from a moving (?) vehicle, across terrain other than nicely trimmed grass, against a possibly concealed target, I would say it's far-fetched.

Let alone the question of the Russian crew opening up on the half-track from so far away. That's also a bit, ehm, far-fetched.

_____________________________

Real men go to war on Real tanks

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)

Post #: 53

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 3:44:10 PM

Bletchley_Geek

Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Firing Unit: Unknown Ground Unit (Loc: Hex: 495 (3, 12) est)
Fire Grp: 0 Trg No: 0
Wpn: 15cm Kanone 18 (gun) Ammo: 150mm field gun HE
Target: 1st USSR Rifle Pln 1942-1 Infantry (SAR) (early war) (Loc: Hex: 514 (22, 12))
Range: Unknown.

Round: 1
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: 41 Damage: 37 Supn: 1000
Result: no damage
2nd USSR Rifle Pln 1942 Infantry (SMG) (early war) (Loc: Hex: 514 (22, 12)) suffers a loss

Target: 1st USSR Rifle Pln 1942-1 Infantry (SAR) (early war) (Loc: Hex: 514 (22, 12))
Range: Unknown.

Round: 2
Direct Hit
Projections: Kill: 41 Damage: 37 Supn: 1000
Result: Damaged
1st USSR Rifle Pln 1942-1 Infantry (SAR) (early war) (Loc: Hex: 514 (22, 12))
has formed a detachment.

That sort of sounds ok - I see that Kill: number means perhaps the chances of killing someone? - though a bit too similar result to previous one. I would expect some more variability from such a - presumedly - detailed game.

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Post #: 54

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 4:17:05 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

I would have to agree with you on this......except for the MG-60. Both fired ball ammo-7.62 cal-with about the same grain size for the ball round and both were air cooled. Now, how they would compare when firing in a non-moving over watch position with a tripod and a T&E at max effective range(plunging fire) I don't no. I am trying to be fair with this game-but it is what it is wether it be good or bad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

The M-60 was a quite different thing, in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
What do you think? Seems feasible to me.

In a firing range, it would be at the extreme envelope of effectiveness. With a tripod and really good eye. While firing at a stationary, relatively big bullseye. Then I'd say just perhaps. But I doubt what kind of effect would have on the target.

In combat conditions, from a moving (?) vehicle, across terrain other than nicely trimmed grass, against a possibly concealed target, I would say it's far-fetched.

Let alone the question of the Russian crew opening up on the half-track from so far away. That's also a bit, ehm, far-fetched.

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Post #: 55

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 4:27:46 PM

Bletchley_Geek

Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I would have to agree with you on this......except for the MG-60. Both fired ball ammo-7.62 cal-with about the same grain size for the ball round and both were air cooled. Now, how they would compare when firing in a non-moving over watch position with a tripod and a T&E at max effective range(plunging fire) I don't no.

You know much more about the M60 than me, that's obvious :) About the German MG's all my experience limits to a several firing range sessions with the MG42 iteration used by the Spanish Army back in 1997. Which is a different thing from a MG34. And my memories about it were that it was quite difficult to control, especially on auto. I mean, it was very easy to put a lot of bullets in the air across a section, but boy, they could really go anywhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
I am trying to be fair with this game-but it is what it is wether it be good or bad.

I'm cool with it :) But my opinion is that there's a long long road ahead of patching for this one. If you can get something enjoyable from it, I'm glad you can. My opinion is that it's not living to the expectations it created, and the stories I'm reading about don't tell me anything other than to keep my wallet in the back pocket of my jeans.

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Post #: 56

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 6:59:13 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 2876
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

I wished I had been able to fire a MG42.....nice little debate.... but I would have agree with yours and wodins overall accessment of the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I would have to agree with you on this......except for the MG-60. Both fired ball ammo-7.62 cal-with about the same grain size for the ball round and both were air cooled. Now, how they would compare when firing in a non-moving over watch position with a tripod and a T&E at max effective range(plunging fire) I don't no.

You know much more about the M60 than me, that's obvious :) About the German MG's all my experience limits to a several firing range sessions with the MG42 iteration used by the Spanish Army back in 1997. Which is a different thing from a MG34. And my memories about it were that it was quite difficult to control, especially on auto. I mean, it was very easy to put a lot of bullets in the air across a section, but boy, they could really go anywhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
I am trying to be fair with this game-but it is what it is wether it be good or bad.

I'm cool with it :) But my opinion is that there's a long long road ahead of patching for this one. If you can get something enjoyable from it, I'm glad you can. My opinion is that it's not living to the expectations it created, and the stories I'm reading about don't tell me anything other than to keep my wallet in the back pocket of my jeans.

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"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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Post #: 57

RE: New HPS Release - 12/15/2011 7:14:50 PM

Bletchley_Geek

Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
I wished I had been able to fire a MG42.....nice little debate.... but I would have agree with yours and wodins overall accessment of the game.

Yes, it's been a nice little debate :) And thank you for posting the logs, it has really given me some insight into the game or simulation or whatever. Anyways, thank you :)

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Post #: 58

RE: New HPS Release - 12/19/2011 12:00:09 AM

rosseau

Posts: 801
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline

Once the game is patched up, it may be unbeatable in its simulation aspects. But for now I think I'll put it aside for a few months and hope. For $40, it's a bargain if they get a few things fixed.

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Post #: 59

RE: New HPS Release - 12/19/2011 12:08:17 AM

Perturabo

Posts: 2000
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

There's no way I'm going to buy it unless they'll release a demo that will show that it works on my comp and is possible to be enjoyable.

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Post #: 60