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New HPS Releases - 12/10/2011 12:22:07 AM   
Yogi the Great


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New release posted at HPS



Added in edit after release posted on HPS also below



< Message edited by Yogi the Great -- 12/10/2011 12:02:41 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 3:00:53 AM   
Titanwarrior89


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I have all the others so I may have to check this one out.

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 3:02:45 AM   
Grim.Reaper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I have all the others so I may have to check this one out.


Thinking about picking this one up but never played any of the others...care to share your experiences and how the game plays?

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 3:45:17 AM   
mgarnett

 

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I've bought all of the previous games and, even though the game graphics are minimalistic (2D and 3D views are available but, IMHO, the 3D view is not very funtional and is hard to look at so I always play the games in 2D with 2D counters) and the interface is a little strange, they are the best ancient warfare games I've played. The game operate on a WEGO system where ou and the AI opponent give orders to your units simultaneously and then those orders and played out as a turn. Somehwat similar to the combat mission WW2 games.

The AI is good and is certainly no pushover. There are many different choices available to your units during play and the uncertainty as to whether your units carry out your orders makes for good FoW. For example, you might order a unit to change formation before marching forward into battle, but the AI may have orderd a charge against them, catching them in the process. This will cause your unit to enter melee to protect themselves instead of marching forward which could leave a nice hole in your battle line.

Leaders also play a big role and their leadership ranges can affect the ability of your units to function. For example, a unit out of command may take many times longer to respond to an order, or they may not even respond at all, until you can move a leader to within command range of the unit.

I also have and play FoG which I class as a quick and lite game, whereas these games are very detailed, difficult to play at first, don't have flashy graphics and suffer from a quirky user interface but are much more rewarding if you put the effort in.

Cheers

Mark

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Post #: 4
RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 5:46:39 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mgarnett

I've bought all of the previous games and, even though the game graphics are minimalistic (2D and 3D views are available but, IMHO, the 3D view is not very funtional and is hard to look at so I always play the games in 2D with 2D counters) and the interface is a little strange[...]

For those who may suspect that I'm a closet-agent here to promote HPS sims, please note that I've simply scorched that 3D-view, here, and elsewhere. But, that's not the good news. Rather, the developer/publisher appears to have paid a modicum of attention to our complaints, the result being a zoomed-in 2D view that's been included in the most recent patch for the "Panzer Campaign" games. And please don't take my comments to mean that they did so on my account. IMHO, they did so because the current state of affairs, graphically-speaking, is simply unacceptable.


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RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 11:41:51 AM   
Yogi the Great


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Here's another just posted, has been mentioned in earlier thread about pre-release




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RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 11:50:21 AM   
berto


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Better graphics are nice (good 2D alone is acceptable), but ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mgarnett

... The game operate on a WEGO system where ou and the AI opponent give orders to your units simultaneously and then those orders and played out as a turn ...

The AI is good and is certainly no pushover. There are many different choices available to your units during play and the uncertainty as to whether your units carry out your orders makes for good FoW. For example, you might order a unit to change formation before marching forward into battle, but the AI may have orderd a charge against them, catching them in the process. This will cause your unit to enter melee to protect themselves instead of marching forward which could leave a nice hole in your battle line.

Leaders also play a big role and their leadership ranges can affect the ability of your units to function. For example, a unit out of command may take many times longer to respond to an order, or they may not even respond at all, until you can move a leader to within command range of the unit ...

... WOW! Sounds fantastic. For the HPS/JTS lineup of games, exactly what the doctor ordered.

Ancient conflicts are not my area of interest, but I'd consider buying this game if only to experience what you describe. I had always thought that the HPS ancients series were very much like your standard cut-and-dried JT games. Good to know I was wrong.

< Message edited by berto -- 12/10/2011 11:57:00 AM >


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RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 12:20:42 PM   
mgarnett

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

Better graphics are nice (good 2D alone is acceptable), but ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mgarnett

... The game operate on a WEGO system where ou and the AI opponent give orders to your units simultaneously and then those orders and played out as a turn ...

The AI is good and is certainly no pushover. There are many different choices available to your units during play and the uncertainty as to whether your units carry out your orders makes for good FoW. For example, you might order a unit to change formation before marching forward into battle, but the AI may have orderd a charge against them, catching them in the process. This will cause your unit to enter melee to protect themselves instead of marching forward which could leave a nice hole in your battle line.

Leaders also play a big role and their leadership ranges can affect the ability of your units to function. For example, a unit out of command may take many times longer to respond to an order, or they may not even respond at all, until you can move a leader to within command range of the unit ...

... WOW! Sounds fantastic. For the HPS/JTS lineup of games, exactly what the doctor ordered.

Ancient conflicts are not my area of interest, but I'd consider buying this game if only to experience what you describe. I had always thought that the HPS ancients series were very much like your standard cut-and-dried JT games. Good to know I was wrong.


Hi berto,

These games are an acquired taste and it's easy to be turned off them due to the quirky interface and poor (but functional 2D graphics), but if you stick with them you won't be dissapointed. These games aren't written by Tiller, although I do like his games well, but by another designer named Paul Brufell (I think) and so they do have that element of difference from the main HPS game series.

I'm a real fan of the WEGO system (which was also used in the Tin Soldiers games here on Matrix, another great series of games) due to the uncertainty it provides. It really works for ancients warfare much better than the traditional I go, you go type systems.

Cheers

Mark

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Post #: 8
RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 2:55:11 PM   
sabre1


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Over on Wargamer, "some" are not finding a pleasant experience with Tigers Unleashed. You might want to read up before you take the plunge. I was ready to buy TU, but I'm waiting for a little more feedback.

I loved Panthers in The Shadows, and hopefully this TU will surpass that venerable title.

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Post #: 9
RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 3:37:54 PM   
Perturabo


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I guess I'll wait some 7 years with buying it. By the way, could someone ask them at Wargamer if it's moddable?

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Post #: 10
RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 4:24:11 PM   
Titanwarrior89


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I have all the games in this series.....excellent series.  Bought it and now playing it. Their down load went great and one of the easiest I have had.

< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 12/10/2011 4:29:06 PM >


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Post #: 11
RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 4:26:45 PM   
Titanwarrior89


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I would say you have hit the nail on the head. I would recommend this one and the FOG series to anyone interested in this period of history.
quote:

ORIGINAL: mgarnett

I've bought all of the previous games and, even though the game graphics are minimalistic (2D and 3D views are available but, IMHO, the 3D view is not very funtional and is hard to look at so I always play the games in 2D with 2D counters) and the interface is a little strange, they are the best ancient warfare games I've played. The game operate on a WEGO system where ou and the AI opponent give orders to your units simultaneously and then those orders and played out as a turn. Somehwat similar to the combat mission WW2 games.

The AI is good and is certainly no pushover. There are many different choices available to your units during play and the uncertainty as to whether your units carry out your orders makes for good FoW. For example, you might order a unit to change formation before marching forward into battle, but the AI may have orderd a charge against them, catching them in the process. This will cause your unit to enter melee to protect themselves instead of marching forward which could leave a nice hole in your battle line.

Leaders also play a big role and their leadership ranges can affect the ability of your units to function. For example, a unit out of command may take many times longer to respond to an order, or they may not even respond at all, until you can move a leader to within command range of the unit.

I also have and play FoG which I class as a quick and lite game, whereas these games are very detailed, difficult to play at first, don't have flashy graphics and suffer from a quirky user interface but are much more rewarding if you put the effort in.

Cheers

Mark



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"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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Post #: 12
RE: New HPS Release - 12/10/2011 4:47:41 PM   
Dave Briggs


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Roman Civil Wars is available at Naval Warfare Simulations for $29. As a matter of fact, they are offering all HPS titles on sale. But no DDL.

These ancient games are great for detail but the larger battles are extremely tedious and time consuming to play. The smaller battles are much easier to manage. Unless you are interested in ancient warfare I'd think twice about buying one of these titles. I own them all, and though rarely play them, I'm glad they are in my game library just so I can tinker with them from time to time. These are definately the most detailed ancient games so far but may not be everyone's cup of tea.

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/11/2011 1:28:23 AM   
mgarnett

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Over on Wargamer, "some" are not finding a pleasant experience with Tigers Unleashed. You might want to read up before you take the plunge. I was ready to buy TU, but I'm waiting for a little more feedback.

I loved Panthers in The Shadows, and hopefully this TU will surpass that venerable title.


Yep, I think the most common problem people are experiencing is that on some systems, if you do not install into the default directory the game is unable to create/find the maps to start a scenario. You can resolve this by either uninstalling and installing into the default directory or finding a folder called HPS Shared (installed into the directory you chose during installation) and then copying the contents of that directory into the TU directory.

Not ideal as there is obviously something wrong with the installer, but it should get people up and running until a revised installer/patch is released.

Cheers

Mark

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Post #: 14
RE: New HPS Release - 12/11/2011 4:51:41 AM   
H Gilmer

 

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Do you people who own the HPS/John Tiller games ever play over the internet? That seems like a decent way to play, if pulled off correctly.

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/11/2011 8:19:45 AM   
mgarnett

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

Do you people who own the HPS/John Tiller games ever play over the internet? That seems like a decent way to play, if pulled off correctly.


I've played played a few games PBEM but life is just too busy now. I don't get nearly as much time on the computer as I would like and when I do, it's usually in short bursts so I mostly end up just playing the AI.

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Post #: 16
RE: New HPS Release - 12/11/2011 9:01:37 AM   
JudgeDredd


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I just posted on Wargamer - and would like any views of people who don't frequent there...

What is the pull of this game, because I've seen screenshots and I think it looks terrible. I could not imagine anything worse in my gaming life than sitting in front of my computer and firing this game up and being presented with that interface.

So what's in it that makes it so desireable?

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Post #: 17
RE: New HPS Release - 12/11/2011 9:38:30 AM   
DerGrenadier


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Great

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/11/2011 4:03:28 PM   
sabre1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I just posted on Wargamer - and would like any views of people who don't frequent there...

What is the pull of this game, because I've seen screenshots and I think it looks terrible. I could not imagine anything worse in my gaming life than sitting in front of my computer and firing this game up and being presented with that interface.

So what's in it that makes it so desireable?



JD,

The hope is that this is the spritual upgarde to Panthers in the Shadows, and Tigers on the Prowl. Point of Attack 2 was/is modern warfare, which is way over my head to grasp tactical use of modern equipment.

I played the heck out of PITS and TOP. They had TONS of scenarios. It doesn't seem to be the case with TU as of release. I am personally really dissapointed that TU is looking like it's going to have serious growing problems. I really hope Scott Hamilton will bring this title up to the potential that "I" percieve it should have.

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/11/2011 4:30:25 PM   
dougb

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I just posted on Wargamer - and would like any views of people who don't frequent there...

What is the pull of this game, because I've seen screenshots and I think it looks terrible. I could not imagine anything worse in my gaming life than sitting in front of my computer and firing this game up and being presented with that interface.

So what's in it that makes it so desireable?


Unfortunately with my brief experience with the game so far, it not only looks terrible but it's not very much fun at all. It's the type of product only a weapons system expert or a chartered accountant could really love.

I played scenario 1 as the Polish attempting to hold a cross roads. I stopped after 9 turns of nothing happening. Each turn that I played I would receive reports in detail of all the 'nothing' that was happening: the sighting phases where nothing was sighted, the firing phases were no firing was occurring, the movement phases were no movement was occurring.

Now it's possible that the enjoyment of the game will improve with experience - at least I fervently hope so! But the 0 out of 10 presentation and the lack of a decent interface doesn't make me very optimistic.

It's a shame because one can see the opportunity for something special if they were able to apply the same design principles that Panther Games did to the Command Ops series - namely ensuring that there's a good game there along with the simulation.

Doug


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RE: New HPS Release - 12/11/2011 6:59:09 PM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dougb

Unfortunately with my brief experience with the game so far, it not only looks terrible but it's not very much fun at all. It's the type of product only a weapons system expert or a chartered accountant could really love.



It was always going to be. But 'people' wanted a WW2 game with the PoA2 engine (or the POA2 engine applied to a WW2 game) for some reason; one that after having attempted to 'play' PoA2 is beyond my comprehension. At least with PoA2 I could see that military professionals might possibly get something out of it.

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 12:22:36 AM   
rosseau

 

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My copy is in the mail. I hope it's not as bad as people think. 

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RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 12:35:18 AM   
Gary Childress


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Uggh. Looking at the graphics for "Tigers Unleashed" brings back memories of my Atari console back in the 1980s. Is HPS ever going to join the 20th Century (let alone the 21st)?

EDIT: And this thing costs $50????



< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 12/12/2011 12:56:29 AM >


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RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 1:02:10 AM   
jomni


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Gary, there's a lot going under the hood.  It's a very sophisticated simulation.  But I feel it's not fun as a game based on my experience with POA2.

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Post #: 24
RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 1:02:38 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Uggh. Looking at the graphics for "Tigers Unleashed" brings back memories of my Atari console back in the 1980s. Is HPS ever going to join the 20th Century (let alone the 21st)?

Judging by the feature list and system requirements they already are in the XXI century. Taking in account the tiny size of the target audience and complete lack of competition hiring someone to do better graphics would be both financially unsound and unnecessary.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 12/12/2011 1:06:50 AM >


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RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 1:50:55 AM   
Titanwarrior89


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I bought the game and would have to agree with you guys overall. But once you start to get into it, its amazing if you can get past the graphics. Also on a large battle my machine took 15 minutes to run a turn. I have a machine that is dual core 2.2 gig with 8 gig ram(computer is pushing two years old). So you'll need a good machine to run this game in a short time. Anyway I like the game. For me it was money well spent but it's not for everyone.
quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Gary, there's a lot going under the hood.  It's a very sophisticated simulation.  But I feel it's not fun as a game based on my experience with POA2.



< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 12/12/2011 1:51:36 AM >


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Post #: 26
RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 12:16:03 PM   
Yogi the Great


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The graphics remind me of AH Tactics II, fond memories of board wargaming.

The HPS & Tiller graphics discussion comes up every time we have a new release. I like nice graphics, but the game is what is important. It seems that a lot of people feel a game must have great graphics to be worthwhile. In actuality, graphics are eye candy to fool us into believing a game is good.

That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

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Post #: 27
RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 12:24:15 PM   
sabre1


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How many scenarios come with the game?

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Post #: 28
RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 1:34:56 PM   
Yogi the Great


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

How many scenarios come with the game?


I can't confirm the below, I copied it from the NWS site description of the game. I haven't decided yet if I will buy it or not, maybe if get through the Holiday expenses I'll consider it after that. As usual so many games to consider and too little time and money.
--------------------------
The table of organization file provides invaluable information on units for this period of World War II. Specialized forces, such as Waffen SS, Brandenburger commando, and Soviet Guards are included in addition to panzer divisions, gerbirgs troops, tank corps, and the ubiquitous infantry. In addition to the Wehrmacht and Red Army, the game also portrays Finns, Hungarians, Italian, Polish, Romanian and Slovak forces.

The game has over 30 scenarios, including: the panzers closing the Kiev pocket, fighting along the road to Moscow, the battle of Kharkov, Brandenburgers in Finland, the breakout from Demyansk, the Italian cavalry charge at the Don River, Grossdeutschland Division fighting for Voronezh, SS Wiking storming the Caucasus, the Red Army's Operation Uranus, von Manstein's attempted relief of Stalingrad—and Tiger tank actions outside of Leningrad.

Battles also include Suomussalmi from the Winter War, and Krojanty 1939 where Polish cavalry overran a German mechanized column. Scenario designers include Scott Hamilton, Jeff Lapkoff, Joseph Miranda and Gary Bezant.
-----------------
Note: Some of the info posted on NWS does not seem to match info posted at HPS. Last minute game chages before release? One example it appears on one post that you can play by email, but the current HPS post seems to indicate that it is against AI or hotseat only.

< Message edited by Yogi the Great -- 12/12/2011 1:43:04 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: New HPS Release - 12/12/2011 2:16:19 PM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.


Initial reports on Usenet indicate a lot of freezes and C++ crashes in addition to a cumbersome UI

.. not that this comes as a surprise to anyone who witnessed the PoA 2 debacle

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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Post #: 30
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