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Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821)

 
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Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:50:11 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		T13 after Soviet turn.

Seemed like a good point to make a Sitrep.

This game is non random weather.

Brief overview so far.

Northern Front

I sent a lot of guys to Leningrad in the hope of holding on or at least delaying the inevitable for as long as possible. I tried to defend here strongly but got outflanked thru Novgorod. Damn annoying as I had to evacuate too early and Leningrad was doomed. It fell this turn. I did manage to get out 30 of the KV factories and all the ARM factories. Oh and a single T50. As MacArthur said…..I shall return. I made him fight for it but now the Panzers are somewhere else? I think its possible to hold Leningrad, I need to get it right next time. He had one extra Mot Div attached to Pz Gp 4. I still intend to resist strongly here and will only retreat to the Finn no move line if a disaster occurs.

Central Front

Up till now he has managed to get two major pockets both about 10-15 Divs each. Both classic pincers between 2nd and 3rd Pz Grps. Both his Pz Groups have been operating south of Smolensk. I have had some successful counter attacks against the Panzers (the odd route included) and recently he has reacted by becoming a little conservative. Moscow still has all its Arms in place but all other useful factories have been moved. I am going to need to reinforce it heavily over the next few turns. Actually I have been sending around 90% of all new units to this sector for the past several turns. Tula has been all but emptied, only one HI remains.

Moscow is now under direct threat. It will be close but even if I lose it I should be able to retake it come winter. He was a little lax covering his spearheads flanks this turn so I took advantage and cut them off from supply, not the first time this has occurred. Due to some successful CA's he has started stacking his lead units.

Southern Front

A surprising strategy employed here by the Axis. He split his Pz Group in two (and no extra units were sent south from AGC). With one group heading along the Dniepr and the other along the Black sea coast via Odessa. Not sure this was the best idea as it diluted his breakthru potential, but he did bag Odessa early with all its industry. Only one small encirclement so far just west of D and Z town, 5 or 6 divisions. Some losses here in ARM's but nothing really bad so far. I got 4 HVY out of Kiev. 40 T34's out of Kharkov. I tried to defend the Dneipr line for as long as possible. By the time he got close to Stalino I had an ambush waiting. He over reached and his lead elements got beat up and cut off pretty bad and things have been relatively quiet down there for the past few turns. I lost very little Armaments down that way. This turn Kharkov was emptied of ARM.

Baring some disaster between now and T17 I think I will have a strongish army for the Winter CA. My concerns at the moment are where is Pz Group 4 heading? I suspect they will emerge between Moscow and Kalinin. With the 2nd and 5th Pz heading south to reinvigorate the southern drive. We shall see. A sudden appearance of Panzers in front of Voronezh is also possible.

Overall I am in pretty good shape so far. My major disappointment is Leningrad. It seems a very difficult sector to hold.

I will post again at end T17.


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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:54:16 AM   
Michael T


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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:54:57 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:55:54 AM   
Michael T


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Status: offline 		Tula




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:56:46 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
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Status: offline 		Kharkov




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:57:34 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Rostov




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:58:27 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Crimea




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:59:19 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 9:59:58 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
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Status: offline 		Losses




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/9/2011 10:01:01 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
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Post #: 10
RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/10/2011 3:52:04 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		The only numbers that really matter now is manpower and how many man are in the russian OOB.

Plus 4 million and your doing fine as Russian, under that and your in trouble.

The loss of Leningrad/Moscow/Tula/Kursk/ ect/to Stalino is also bad for Russian. You can move all the industry you want, but without men you will not have a good blizzard. Which means you lose anything you recovered during blizzard.

When everyone was worried about manpower the key to the game was armaments.

Now everyone is worried about armaments the key to game is manpower.

As long as the Russian player losses less then 60 armament pts he never run out of them.

Moscow has to be held, if its not you will get less then 100k close to 90k per turn in replasements, which means your winter O will be over come late January.

Before 1.05 Moscow was a side show and the south was the key, now Moscow is the key and the south the side show.

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GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

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Post #: 11
RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/10/2011 4:29:50 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: online 		Leningrad cannot be held, Michael T if the German really wants it. I'm surprised you are surprised.

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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/10/2011 1:22:53 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Your doing really good as far as your OOB goes, but you need to hold Moscow, once it falls the manpower is out of action for a good amount of time even if you take it back. Which means the loss of 150,000ish replasements at least when you needed them the most.

You might have delayed him long enough at Leningrad to take 4th pz out of the picture until its to late.

Looking at the Moscow area its going to be really hard for him to take it, but still possible.

Pelton

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GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

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Post #: 13
RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/12/2011 1:59:07 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Flav I am not surprised, just dissapointed. I still think Leningrad can be held against the stock PzG 4. I just need to get it right. I have some ideas yet. But yes if Germany adds an additional Pz Corp then its all over. But thats fair enough I would think. They would then suffer elsewhere.

FWIW I think all 4 areas are important to fight for Pelton, that is Industry, Army, Manpower and Territory. I have always felt that.

Anyway here is the Moscow area at end Russian T14. I was wrong on two accounts. He has left PzG 4 in the North. They have surged through on a very narrow line between Kalinin and Leningrad. I don't mind that. 2nd and 5th Pz Div's have emerged in the northern Moscow spearhead.

It seems he is hell bent on Moscow.

Knowing that no new Mech reserves were heading south I attacked between Rostov and Kharkov and hammered some Panzers.

3 clear turns left. Can I hold Moscow?






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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/13/2011 1:58:21 AM   
TulliusDetritus

 

Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Back to Reality :(
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

3 clear turns left. Can I hold Moscow?


I hope you can But still, there are the snow turns (four?). In theory he is using the bull approach, charging against the city itself with his armored hordes. The panzers near Tula might not get in time (to help during the last clear westher turns, but ready for the snow push though). But still, your forts in the 3 city hexes are dangerously low.

I too thought (in february, march) that Leningrad could be held. Then Sabre21 said there's no hope. I believed him. He was right. But on my current game I resisted all I could and only gave up on turn 14 if I remember correctly. The city was captured on turn 15 or 16. I'm pretty certain this sacrifice (20 Rifle Divisions) helped Moscow, which could have perfectly been captured, by the way

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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/14/2011 11:04:13 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		T15

Still holding Moscow. Tula cut off. He has moved up next to Rostov in the south. I had to abandon Kharkov this turn :(

No attacks by myself this turn. All spare troops to the critical battle fronts.

Full screenies and data at end T17.




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:06:22 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		End of the Summer campaign at last. I am not in as good as shape as I would have hoped but all critical industry is safe and we still hold Moscow (just and probably won't hold it thru the snow turns :( ).

Army strength is just below 4M but I have many troops in the pool, just no rifles. This should improve as my Arm Ind gets repaired.

I am confident I can do some damage in the blizzard baring any snow disasters.

Some thoughts on the summer? Simply this, bash and barge tactics are too effective by the Germans. They are not taking enough losses for such primitive tactics. I find in most battles I am losing around 10:1 in troops. A typical Inf v Inf fight might result in 600 Axis lost to 5K~6K Soviet. Just seems wrong.

Anyway hopefully the mud will bring some respite before the German snow offensive.

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Post #: 17
RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:09:22 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		I will load up some pics soon, can't seem to upload right now.

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Post #: 18
RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:12:45 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

End of the Summer campaign at last. I am not in as good as shape as I would have hoped but all critical industry is safe and we still hold Moscow (just and probably won't hold it thru the snow turns :( ).

Army strength is just below 4M but I have many troops in the pool, just no rifles. This should improve as my Arm Ind gets repaired.

I am confident I can do some damage in the blizzard baring any snow disasters.

Some thoughts on the summer? Simply this, bash and barge tactics are too effective by the Germans. They are not taking enough losses for such primitive tactics. I find in most battles I am losing around 10:1 in troops. A typical Inf v Inf fight might result in 600 Axis lost to 5K~6K Soviet. Just seems wrong.

Anyway hopefully the mud will bring some respite before the German snow offensive.


Grinding pays. Loss ratios are indeed tremendous. It's very easy to maintain 5:1 loss ratios. I'm fairly confident that attrition accounts for more German losses than combat proper in 1941 now, at least during the summer.

Moscow is indeed a bitch to hold on to and you can spend the whole summer barely holding on to it. Only by spending a fortune in APs to shift fresh troops in and clapped out ones out can you keep things under control here.

Welcome to the new Soviet reality.

However, you can repair much of this during the mud.


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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:17:05 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Data




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:18:11 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		More...




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:18:52 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		and more..




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:19:40 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		North




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:20:20 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Centre




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:21:14 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		South




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:22:16 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5747
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: online 		BTW, you have to take some fairly radical measures to deal with your armaments pool. Even so, you'll still crater, but I managed to avoid zeroing out until around November in my game with James.

What do I mean by radical measures? Well, set all arty to 50% TOE. Disband stuff like crazy. Avoid putting mech divisions on refit (those things are armament hogs and will flip over to brigades anyways, or rifle divisions.) I even went so far as to dial down the TOE settings for rifle units to 90% across the board.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/16/2011 10:23:53 PM >

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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:32:41 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		I already did all that stuff apart from disbandment. I hit zero armaments on T16.

The last time I played Soviet was under 1.04, much tougher now under 1.05. My thoughts at this stage are its a little too tough in 41. But we shall see. I am confident of final victory in this game, but it won't be as easy as last time.

Trying to upload a Moscow close up but can't manage it just yet, weird.

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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 10:43:22 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Moscow




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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/16/2011 11:08:03 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1166
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From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline 		With the fix for HQ, AB & SU refit in place, i.e. if you start with 1.05.39 or later, all SU will more or less fill out in the logistics phase in turn 1. Don't know what to do, really.

Disbanding the Arm not quite but almost ASAP? The equipment in the Mot will get recycled, so I prefer to keep them at 50% TOE and on refit so that they get training until they upgrade.

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RE: Kremlin Capers (no Bobo821) - 12/25/2011 11:43:30 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 1546
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Turn 24

Moscow holds! Well the Kremlin at least. Lost the two western hexes of Moscow but I still hold the main hex along with the capital. Hopefully I can regain the lost hexes come the blizzard.

Unfortunately I lost Rostov just this turn. But again I should be able to regain it with the blizzard.

Lots of re-organising this turn in preparation for the blizzard counter attack.

Will update again at the end of December.





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