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RE: The Big Picture

 
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RE: The Big Picture - 12/8/2011 11:30:39 AM   
gwgardner

 

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Are you by any chance playing on 'easy' level for the Soviets? I never saw such strength in Soviet units so early in the war, when I played on 'normal.' Perfectly viable way to play, if so, just wondering.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 12/8/2011 11:31:55 AM >

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RE: The Big Picture - 12/8/2011 11:40:40 AM   
Greyshaft


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I didn't adjust the difficulty level when I started but from the start of the game I have built only infantry (Level 2 INF corps) plus reinforced/upgraded existing corps. I plan to surround his units and cut them off from supply rather than fight them fairly :)

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RE: The Big Picture - 12/8/2011 12:54:32 PM   
doomtrader


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This is a very good strategy, especially against Panzers, however upgrading your units into corps means that you are immobilize them for couple of turns. So it can turn into victory or total fail.

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RE: The Big Picture - 12/8/2011 1:36:14 PM   
gwgardner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

I didn't adjust the difficulty level when I started but from the start of the game I have built only infantry (Level 2 INF corps) plus reinforced/upgraded existing corps. I plan to surround his units and cut them off from supply rather than fight them fairly :)


If the AI armor does rush too far forward without infantry support, your strategy could work well indeed. Not just AI, if you look at my AAR on Slitherine, I did the same, and lost several Panzer corps.

The AI may need some tweaking to get it to wait for infantry backup before advancing too far.

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 4:37:47 PM   
apathetic lurker

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

I'm not complaining here ... more like sighing with relief.
Late October 1941 playing as the USSR. Leningrad is holding well and we've cut off two Finnish XX and destroyed them - I did load the Leningrad Front heavily in my favor so I expected to win there. The Axis has lunged for Moscow (which is well defended) with three Armor units - a Corp and two Divisions. As you can see from the screen capture their move had little chance of success. It does raise a question about the quality of AI planning. For the sake of game balance I hope their move is part of a larger plan that I cannot yet see. I will tell you what happens.





What map are you using? I have looked and can't seem to find one that I like any better than the one you are using....

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 6:45:32 PM   
doomtrader


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It is stylized map mode

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 7:16:17 PM   
Greyshaft


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The date is 24th November 1941. The 47th Panzer Corp and it's supposed rescuer are now both cut off. Two more Panzer Corps are racing in from the south. My reinforcements for Moscow this turn are six more Level two INF Corps. If I can cut them off the southern Panzers also then I doubt the Germans can free any of them before winter hits. That will be four Panzer Corps and three Panzer Divisions lost because they did not wait for infantry support. Perhaps you might have a quiet word with the AI and tell it not to be so ambitious.

But I do like the game :)





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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 7:33:35 PM   
JudgeDredd


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I can't help but think, after all these years, that there MUST be a competent AI out there somewhere - waiting to be discovered. These kind of games always highlight major flaws in AI.

Attacking AI is notoriously bad. Really? It's THAT much harder to program an attacking AI than a defending one? I have no idea - hence the question - it's not a leading question...but there must be certain things the attacking AI can check in order to make sure it isn't kamakazi...4 Panzer Corps and 3 Divisions??

I admit it's easy for me to sit here in my chair and program my nice little Windows user interface to my database...but attacking AI has been bad for over ever...surely someone has some idea how to make one?

Just sayin'

By the way, I love the graphics sets you have for the game. I almost bought the game just for those alone!

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 8:29:06 PM   
gwgardner

 

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It IS that hard, or it would have been done. The variables and quantity of data, and interactions between the data, and terrain, and weather, and ... all are staggering in a game like this.

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 8:53:46 PM   
doomtrader


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Greyshaft, would you care to share with your losses dealt and taken report?

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 9:06:45 PM   
sveint


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Looks like it can be an interesting game for PBEM play. But house rules for minor activation is definitively needed - for example activating Sweden as Germany is extremely easy, something that would never have happened historically.

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 9:27:36 PM   
Greyshaft


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Judge Dredd ... I haven't killed the two northern Panzer Corps yet and I don't know if I will succeed in surrounding the southern pair. They might retreat before I get there.





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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 9:30:33 PM   
Keke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I can't help but think, after all these years, that there MUST be a competent AI out there somewhere - waiting to be discovered. These kind of games always highlight major flaws in AI.


You should check the modded AI of Revolution Under Siege (Fatal Years Mod). Best I ever seen and played against.

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 9:57:06 PM   
doomtrader


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Looks like Soviets are loosing 10 times more soldiers.

You should also remember that Soviet infantry is extremely cheap.

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RE: The first victory!!! - 12/8/2011 10:53:30 PM   
Greyshaft


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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader
Looks like Soviets are loosing 10 times more soldiers.


So I'm using the Stalin strategy ... as long as it keeps the Germans out of Moscow and Leningrad then who cares? Note that my air losses are quite small. I have made strenuous efforts to save my air force and to build lots of infantry. I plan to surround his ARM to cut them off from supply and then weaken them with my air units. After that I send in the INF to finish the job.

Here is the Leningrad front to complete the picture.






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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/8/2011 11:37:44 PM   
doomtrader


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Looks like the Germans are going to have hard time with you

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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/9/2011 12:17:58 AM   
Greyshaft


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For the record I don't consider this as a bug in the game. I am using a strategy with plenty of historical precedent (eg Stalin in 1941, Napoleon in the 1814 Campaign) and my success here is built on the work of those who learned the hard way that when you are facing a superior force then mobility is your best asset. Having said that, I'm sure you will look at making the AI aware of how to combat this strategy.

(OK... Stalin also had General Winter to help him ... but my point here is that standing and fighting against a Juggernaut just doesn't work.)

< Message edited by Greyshaft -- 12/9/2011 12:19:55 AM >


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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/9/2011 1:07:14 AM   
Greyshaft


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To lose one pair of Panzer Corps, Mr. Hitler, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness...





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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/9/2011 1:12:34 AM   
Greyshaft


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Minor peeve... I had the "Fortify Moscow" event and I took the 500PP but since I still had 2PP left over from the previous turns expenditure I then had the Corruption Penalty for having more than 500PP in the bank and I immediately lost 60PP before I had the chance to spend it. I suggest ensuring that both events can't occur on the same turn.

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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/9/2011 6:59:57 AM   
rogo727


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I just want to say that this is a great game, I enjoy it. My only problem is you have this game and Panzer corps, I don't have much spare time. :(

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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/9/2011 11:17:29 AM   
Keke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
...I am using a strategy with plenty of historical precedent (eg Stalin in 1941, Napoleon in the 1814 Campaign)...


Just a side note: it was never Stalin's strategy to give ground voluntarily.

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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/9/2011 12:17:13 PM   
Greyshaft


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke
Just a side note: it was never Stalin's strategy to give ground voluntarily.


True - I was referring to the flow of the campaign. My point was that the USSR won because the German juggernaut was never given the chance to land a knockout blow. They captured hundreds of thousands of men at Kiev but all of the industry had been moved east of the Urals and in Stalin's mind men were expendable. By the time the Germans reached Moscow they had been reduced to a more manageable force which could be kept out of the Kremlin by a couple of Siberian Huskies.


I am fighting where I can and retreating where I cannot. The difference is that I make a judgement whether a city can be held (even for a turn or two) and commit men accordingly. Stalin, as you said, didn't bother making a judgement - he just ordered that everything be held. I think his original reaction on hearing of the invasion was to order the army to kick the Germans out of the USSR within two weeks. When that plan obviously wasn't working he went into his room for a month and sulked.


So my strategy was to keep nipping at the German flanks with my armor divisions and make his Panzer Corps use their activity points tracking me down rather than marching on Moscow. It's cost a lot of men but by March 1942 I've got the Germans on the run. Note the queue of Axis units waiting to get into the Crimea - they'd be better employed defending Kharkov, but I'm not complaining :)







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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/9/2011 12:56:55 PM   
doomtrader


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I'll try to adjust the Crimean bottleneck a little bit.

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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/11/2011 7:24:55 PM   
Fastheinz


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Took a chance on this and am very happy i did.  Great game and effort!

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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/11/2011 11:00:40 PM   
dlazov66


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Mixed feelings/reviews on this game for me.

Points of interest.

Manual is not really well written. Lots of ambiguities and mistakes throughout the manual , not enough detailed explanation or graphics explaining things clearly. No separate tutorial has been provided (most Matrix games come with them). This alone makes it seem as though the game was rushed to get it out into the public or as a worse case scenario, there was no quality control and or English proofers. I had to read the manual several times in several places to make sense of it, of course I have been spoiled in the sense that I have been playing board war games for over 35 years and PC wargames for about 20 so maybe I am expecting too much.

According to the manual there is some really bizarre game machanics, such as (6.5.4) Land Unit Retreat "Units defending in cities or hexes with forts NEVER retreat." Pretty wonky. Also, (6.5.2) Terrain "Mountains give 100% to the defender! Very Wonkey! However the good news is that this is not true. I have been playing the game all day and have seen several Polish units retreat while in a city.

When the game first loads (both windowed mode and full screen mode) on my system the screen is completely black, but the music is playing. I need to left click the screen, two to three times to get it to go to next video screen). Kind of wonkey.

Also, in Windowed mode you can't scroll the map with the mouse for some reason. Okay it scrolls to the left and up but not to the right and down. Really wonkey for windowed mode. Hum, I set Windowed mode to my normal screen size (1920x1080) and it's not, its short and I can't see all the bottom icons. Wonkey. So really the only way I can play this game is in full screen mode.

Bombers wont bomb ships for some reason, even if placed on a coast or one hex inwards. Also, it only seems that Fighters can only do two things. Recon and occasionally intercept the other side. Other then that they dont seem to do much. I was thinking I might be able to hit enemy air bases but not so.

The Kiel canal is broken. The German ships in the Baltic are stuck their on the grand campaign.

I purchased an airborne division but I can't figure out how to purchase any ATP for it.

The good things about this game are:

You can select the kind of counters/icons or unit images you want to use and the kind of map as well.

The game plays pretty well once you get the hang of it (land game and very limited air game, seems that only tactical bombers are very useful, you can bomb enemy units, all fighters seem to be used for is recon and crossing fingers for the occasional intercept, no CAP or interdiction possible). The air game plays pretty easily (see above) and so does the naval. The Naval is the most document piece in the manual.

All in all its a fun little game. It's kind of irritating that their appears to be several bugs and the game may need a few tweaks to make it a little better. Perhaps with a few updates/patches it will be a really good game.

I have spent about 8 hours playing through to turn 6. I took out Poland in 3 turns which seems okay.

So my first impressions are okay, but a few minor irritating features for the price of this game, luckily I got the 30% discount since I previously owned TOW, which I never really played all that much. This one has a lot more potential.

I tried to mod some of the graphics but when loaded they were really all wonkey so not sure why.




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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/11/2011 11:56:31 PM   
Razz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dlazov66

Mixed feelings/reviews on this game for me.

Points of interest.

Manual is not really well written. Lots of ambiguities and mistakes throughout the manual , not enough detailed explanation or graphics explaining things clearly. No separate tutorial has been provided (most Matrix games come with them). This alone makes it seem as though the game was rushed to get it out into the public or as a worse case scenario, there was no quality control and or English proofers. I had to read the manual several times in several places to make sense of it, of course I have been spoiled in the sense that I have been playing board war games for over 35 years and PC wargames for about 20 so maybe I am expecting too much.

According to the manual there is some really bizarre game machanics, such as (6.5.4) Land Unit Retreat "Units defending in cities or hexes with forts NEVER retreat." Pretty wonky. Also, (6.5.2) Terrain "Mountains give 100% to the defender! Very Wonkey! However the good news is that this is not true. I have been playing the game all day and have seen several Polish units retreat while in a city.

When the game first loads (both windowed mode and full screen mode) on my system the screen is completely black, but the music is playing. I need to left click the screen, two to three times to get it to go to next video screen). Kind of wonkey.

Also, in Windowed mode you can't scroll the map with the mouse for some reason. Okay it scrolls to the left and up but not to the right and down. Really wonkey for windowed mode. Hum, I set Windowed mode to my normal screen size (1920x1080) and it's not, its short and I can't see all the bottom icons. Wonkey. So really the only way I can play this game is in full screen mode.

Bombers wont bomb ships for some reason, even if placed on a coast or one hex inwards. Also, it only seems that Fighters can only do two things. Recon and occasionally intercept the other side. Other then that they dont seem to do much. I was thinking I might be able to hit enemy air bases but not so.

The Kiel canal is broken. The German ships in the Baltic are stuck their on the grand campaign.

I purchased an airborne division but I can't figure out how to purchase any ATP for it.

The good things about this game are:

You can select the kind of counters/icons or unit images you want to use and the kind of map as well.

The game plays pretty well once you get the hang of it (land game and very limited air game, seems that only tactical bombers are very useful, you can bomb enemy units, all fighters seem to be used for is recon and crossing fingers for the occasional intercept, no CAP or interdiction possible). The air game plays pretty easily (see above) and so does the naval. The Naval is the most document piece in the manual.

All in all its a fun little game. It's kind of irritating that their appears to be several bugs and the game may need a few tweaks to make it a little better. Perhaps with a few updates/patches it will be a really good game.

I have spent about 8 hours playing through to turn 6. I took out Poland in 3 turns which seems okay.

So my first impressions are okay, but a few minor irritating features for the price of this game, luckily I got the 30% discount since I previously owned TOW, which I never really played all that much. This one has a lot more potential.

I tried to mod some of the graphics but when loaded they were really all wonkey so not sure why.





What's wrong with playing in Fullscreen mode?

You have to click on the sea zone to bomb it. You can see which zones you can hit as they are highlighted.
You also have to be in range. 5 hexes.

Fighters work great. See the Red hexes? Those are the one you can attack. So yes you can bomb the enemy's airports.

I believe the Kiel canal is not broken. It is WAD otherwise USA British Russian can use it.

You have to control it. Same as in other straits. Have to control both sides.
Don't worry, you can wait until you capture Denmark.

Next time you questions or concerns can you please kindly ask?

The development team is very small.

When your boss says release or else forget it.....
That what happens in all games now a days. Nothing new.

I believe I answered most of your bugs, as they are not bugs, just a lack of knowledge on how the game is played.

The only concern is windows mode.

Tutorial? There is one in the game. There have been compliments on it. What do you mean by separate? It is separate from the game. The tutorial shows you the game mechanics. It was a development decision not to put all the basics in the manual as people don't read them any more. They load the game and play or load the game and play the tutorial now a days. ** However, I agree. I read manuals. Writing of the manual was a translation and political issue as the originator of the document would have had everything re-written, then they would have understood it differently due to translation problems.

Have you read the strategy guide yet?

Thanks for the feedback. I feel sorry about the window problem.



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Post #: 86
RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/11/2011 11:58:56 PM   
Agent S


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Post your mod attempts into the mod forum, and we'll work out what went odd.
transparency issue with .pngs or the .csv files perhaps.


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Post #: 87
RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/12/2011 1:20:24 AM   
dlazov66


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Razz

What's wrong with playing in Fullscreen mode?


Nothing, really, just wanted to post what I am finding.

quote:


You have to click on the sea zone to bomb it. You can see which zones you can hit as they are highlighted.
You also have to be in range. 5 hexes.


I'll try double checking I am pretty sure I had some bombers within 5 hexes but nothing turned red.

quote:


Fighters work great. See the Red hexes? Those are the one you can attack. So yes you can bomb the enemy's airports.


Nope, none of the fighter when I select them display any red hex outlines to attack anything. All they can be used for is recon and hopefully interception.

quote:


I believe the Kiel canal is not broken. It is WAD otherwise USA British Russian can use it.

You have to control it. Same as in other straits. Have to control both sides.
Don't worry, you can wait until you capture Denmark.


So your saying even if I control Kiel and Hamburg I also have to control Denmark to use it?

Okay, kind of weird but okay.

quote:


Next time you questions or concerns can you please kindly ask?

The development team is very small.


Sure, but I was just voicing my opinion and frustration.

quote:


When your boss says release or else forget it.....
That what happens in all games now a days. Nothing new.


Not really, I have worked on a few games and the developers can push back if they feel they are not ready. Nothing wrong there.

quote:


I believe I answered most of your bugs, as they are not bugs, just a lack of knowledge on how the game is played.


If the manual was better written then maybe no lack of knowledge?

quote:


The only concern is windows mode.


?

quote:


Tutorial? There is one in the game. There have been compliments on it. What do you mean by separate? It is separate from the game. The tutorial shows you the game mechanics. It was a development decision not to put all the basics in the manual as people don't read them any more. They load the game and play or load the game and play the tutorial now a days. ** However, I agree. I read manuals. Writing of the manual was a translation and political issue as the originator of the document would have had everything re-written, then they would have understood it differently due to translation problems.


The in-game tutorial is pretty basic, I guess I was looking more for a strategy guide.

quote:


Have you read the strategy guide yet?


You mean the 10 page word doc? I don't really call that a strategy guide, more like a hint.

No, both the tutorial and the strategy guide I was hoping to see was like something I wrote for the GG WitE guide/tutorial/strategy guide.

quote:


Thanks for the feedback. I feel sorry about the window problem.





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Post #: 88
RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/12/2011 1:22:12 AM   
dlazov66


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Agent S,

I'll try using a different editor and see what happens.

I got the CSV / text files modified to use the font I want. Any clues to all the other items in the text files?

No editor manual either?




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RE: The Obligatory First Impressions Thread - 12/12/2011 1:59:48 AM   
dlazov66


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Thanks to Razz other posts on how to bomb air units and other land units I figured it out.

I am using different graphic mods and am new to the game so my bad.

This game does grown on you, but at times parts of it can be frustrating.


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