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RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/15/2017 2:36:34 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 335
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Here is the list of ground reinforcements. Not much left in the next 30 days.



Wa




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Post #: 6211
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/15/2017 2:39:17 PM   
Andav

 

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Not much left coming in the air either. Most of these are training groups I talked about before.



Wa




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Post #: 6212
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/15/2017 2:52:30 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/8/2007
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Here are the ships left in the queue. Most I did not choose to build because they come so late. I would do this differently as well next time. I might try to get the CVs. I did build both Musashi and Yamato because the Historical Player in me thought it was the right thing to do. I would probably scrap them next time in favor on the CVs.

Musashi died on a torpedo hit followed by a magazine explosion. Yamato got its arse kicked by Richelieu.



Wa




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Post #: 6213
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/15/2017 2:54:25 PM   
Andav

 

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Joined: 5/8/2007
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Let me know if you want to see anything else. All my dirty laundry is out there. If I missed a pair of socks somewhere, let me know.

Wa

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Post #: 6214
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/15/2017 3:54:26 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/8/2007
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Just for grins, I dug out my receipt for WitP: AE. I paid $84.83 for a digital download plus physical copy on July 27th, 2009. This was my 3rd game. One did not last long. One lasted until 1943. This game went into 1945. Just looking at this game, we played 1328 turn from Nov 2011 to Feb 2016. If I spent an average of 1 hour on the turn (I actually think this is about right since even in the end, I would spend 45 minutes a turn), that is 1328 hours of entertainment. So about 0.06 cents per hour just for this game. That is cheap entertainment. While my ASL kit costs a lot more, I have more hours invested since I have played for over 25 years. When I buy a new game, I always comment to my wife that I could play golf or something instead.

Wa

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Post #: 6215
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/15/2017 4:41:08 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 21188
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav


Here is a shot of Tokyo on the final day of the war. Notice forts 2. In an "Oh Crap" moment, I realized I never built forts in Tokyo. I never really looked at it. I just assumed it had forts.



Wa





The Emperor was mooning me!

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Post #: 6216
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/20/2017 1:15:12 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 4170
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline
I have been lurking only for some time as my own "conflict" at sea has unraveled completely. Thank you for a very insightful AAR.
When I get around to posting my own demise (as allies ) it will be hard not to compare, right from wrong. I will say that as
my own situation FUBAR, I followed George and landed on Luzon and Leyte and quickly made the bridge to CRB as well. Alas, for me
it is November '45.

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Post #: 6217
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/20/2017 4:54:08 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 21188
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I have been lurking only for some time as my own "conflict" at sea has unraveled completely. Thank you for a very insightful AAR.
When I get around to posting my own demise (as allies ) it will be hard not to compare, right from wrong. I will say that as
my own situation FUBAR, I followed George and landed on Luzon and Leyte and quickly made the bridge to CRB as well. Alas, for me
it is November '45.

Thanks!

Walter and I are planning to review/discuss some of the battles here. Quite a number of "Later on I'll have to find out what he saw/planned" thoughts occurred to both of us. If you just finished the AAR, any particular one you would like to start with?

_____________________________


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Post #: 6218
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/20/2017 5:25:39 PM   
Lowpe

 

Posts: 11330
Joined: 2/25/2013
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Great news...

Strategic bombing...what steps did Andav take to limit it and how worried was he. How much did it cause a dispersion of forces? How much did it really hurt?

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 6219
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/28/2017 6:59:05 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 478
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline
I am unsure if this is active ?

I do have two questions for both players.

Follow up from Lowpe albeit specific...

1) Strategic bombing of oil supplies in the DEI circa mid 1943 ....

Seriously wounded Witpqs Bomber reserves even on towards late game... was Andav aware ? Witpqs was pretty skinny for a while in heavy bombers. Could knowledge of that changed your strategy ?

Seriously hampered Home Island resources ??!!.... as Andav just quoted above oil from DEI dried up in early 1944... was Witpqs aware ? Would have you changed your attack vector from CRB if you were aware ?

2) Battle of Truk

The Battle of Truk was very long and drawn out. Countless audiance gasps at how long it took even in game terms.

The major carrier battle occurred on page 37.The invasion of Truk is mentioned.

By page 41 August 1 1943 Truk is invaded. By page 47 Sept 20 1943 its beginning to wind down Forts = 0

By page 48 Sept 28 Truk was won.

WitPqs was cycling INF divisions on and off island as they got beat up. Cycled in an entire unplanned INF DIV to get the job done. Carrier and CVE support hung around for a substantial period of time.

Japan still controlled Wolei Island.

In hindsight would have General Andav counter punched with more or even "everything" at Truk ? A fast surface combat raid verses carriers and troop ships? Planes? More subs?

In hindsight despite the strategy to hold all key spots on a vector line and clean up afterwards... would Witpqs bypass next time ? It may have frankly delayed victory by over 2 months and relatively speaking was the troop cost worth it ?

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6220
RE: 1945 July 25 - 2/28/2017 8:56:46 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 21188
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

I am unsure if this is active ?

I do have two questions for both players.

Follow up from Lowpe albeit specific...

1) Strategic bombing of oil supplies in the DEI circa mid 1943 ....

Seriously wounded Witpqs Bomber reserves even on towards late game... was Andav aware ? Witpqs was pretty skinny for a while in heavy bombers. Could knowledge of that changed your strategy ?
Love to hear Admiral Wa's answer. It sure dictated how I conducted my air campaigns!

Seriously hampered Home Island resources ??!!.... as Andav just quoted above oil from DEI dried up in early 1944... was Witpqs aware ? Would have you changed your attack vector from CRB if you were aware ?
No, because IIRC it was the Cam Ranh Bay operation that cut the oil and fuel flow from the DEI. Certainly earlier operations onto bases on the eastern side of the South China Sea must have had an impact by putting convoys at greater risk and requiring countermeasures, but I presume that the much-talked about land route for DEI products from Singapore to safer ports nearer Japan was operating. And I had no idea how much was flowing through that route. CRB both gave me a base on the mainland side of the South China Sea and cut the rail line, doubtless an important component of the land petrochemical route. Even considering only the sea route, the IJN was still quite powerful and fully capable of escorting convoys through the South China Sea when the coordinated Pegu and CRB operations were launched.

2) Battle of Truk

The Battle of Truk was very long and drawn out. Countless audiance gasps at how long it took even in game terms.

The major carrier battle occurred on page 37.The invasion of Truk is mentioned.

By page 41 August 1 1943 Truk is invaded. By page 47 Sept 20 1943 its beginning to wind down Forts = 0

By page 48 Sept 28 Truk was won.

WitPqs was cycling INF divisions on and off island as they got beat up. Cycled in an entire unplanned INF DIV to get the job done. Carrier and CVE support hung around for a substantial period of time.

Japan still controlled Wolei Island.

In hindsight would have General Andav counter punched with more or even "everything" at Truk ? A fast surface combat raid verses carriers and troop ships? Planes? More subs?

In hindsight despite the strategy to hold all key spots on a vector line and clean up afterwards... would Witpqs bypass next time ? It may have frankly delayed victory by over 2 months and relatively speaking was the troop cost worth it ?
Would I bypass if I had it to do over again? No. It was an opportunistic invasion (due to the prior carrier battle results) and the course of it was mostly because it was a major - and most valuable - learning experience. Truk was a great base for the invasion of the Marianas and even afterward. That said let me clarify: in exactly the same situation I would do it again, and do it better. In another game in a 'similar' (but not identical) situation, maybe not. That would be a judgement call for that situation.



_____________________________


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Post #: 6221
RE: 1945 July 25 - 3/1/2017 11:09:40 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 4170
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Is there any way to go right to a page? I'd like to reread the action around Truk sans 80 clicks. It took over 500 clicks to shuffle pilots and planes last
night alone. When the Eighth Air force arrives it sucked the pilot pools dry and left me with 800-1000 pilot less birds and when I was finished. I was so desperate and *&^%ed off I decided to use the gadget.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 6222
RE: 1945 July 25 - 3/1/2017 4:14:52 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Strategic bombing...what steps did Andav take to limit it and how worried was he. How much did it cause a dispersion of forces? How much did it really hurt?


Stratigic bombing outside of the Home Islands really did not cause me a lot of concern. It probably should have bothered me more in Java. The Heavy Industry in Java has fuel sources and magically goes into the pool so keeping it running as long as possible should probably have been a higher priority. By the time the Allies were bombing the oil and refineries in the DEI and area I was not really getting anything through any more so it did not really bother me. It was a mission which was not targeting my bases or troops.

When witpqs bombed the ship repair yard at Singapore, that really hurt. I was using it heavily and did not have supply for repairs.

In the Home Islands, the biggest pain was fires storms on a couple of key cities that had late war fighter production. This burned both engine production and air frame production. In the future, I would try to hide some of this in Manchuria or spread it out a bit more. One thing I was very happy to see was the bombing of Heavy Industry in the Home Islands. At that time I have over 3 million banked and was pretty much out of fuel in the Home Islands so it was a raid which did not mean anything to me. The bombing of the Light Industry really hurt since i had plenty of resources which could be converted to supply.

Once the allies are in sweep range, P-47s will clear the way for the bombers (in theory). We (really me) had a running joke about Bomber Sweeps and about the fighter jocks sleeping late. Even without escorts or prior sweeps, the bombers would have success especially if they lacked coordination. The first waves might get chewed a bit but subsequent waves would face less and less opposition and score many hits.

As Japan, you really come to appreciate the AA units you have especially the ones with the 12cm gun. Placing these where you expect the Allied bombers to attack is a priority. If destroyed, they are high on the buy back list.

One very underappreciated challenge for the Japanese late war is the managing of supply. You have no extra and each supply point becomes precious. I used a lot of Lowpe's tricks of stockpiling supplies and then releasing them with specific bases requesting extra. If might take two days to get supply somewhere. It is one of the few simple joys to see a base fill with supply.

Wa

(in reply to zuluhour)
Post #: 6223
RE: 1945 July 25 - 3/1/2017 4:17:43 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

s there any way to go right to a page?


Hack the URL. There is an element mpage=208. So change the 208 to 37 to Advance Token to that page. Collect $200 and save a click!

Wa

(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 6224
RE: 1945 July 25 - 3/1/2017 4:26:34 PM   
Lowpe

 

Posts: 11330
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

quote:

Strategic bombing...what steps did Andav take to limit it and how worried was he. How much did it cause a dispersion of forces? How much did it really hurt?


Stratigic bombing outside of the Home Islands really did not cause me a lot of concern. It probably should have bothered me more in Java. The Heavy Industry in Java has fuel sources and magically goes into the pool so keeping it running as long as possible should probably have been a higher priority. By the time the Allies were bombing the oil and refineries in the DEI and area I was not really getting anything through any more so it did not really bother me. It was a mission which was not targeting my bases or troops.

When witpqs bombed the ship repair yard at Singapore, that really hurt. I was using it heavily and did not have supply for repairs.

In the Home Islands, the biggest pain was fires storms on a couple of key cities that had late war fighter production. This burned both engine production and air frame production. In the future, I would try to hide some of this in Manchuria or spread it out a bit more. One thing I was very happy to see was the bombing of Heavy Industry in the Home Islands. At that time I have over 3 million banked and was pretty much out of fuel in the Home Islands so it was a raid which did not mean anything to me. The bombing of the Light Industry really hurt since i had plenty of resources which could be converted to supply.

Once the allies are in sweep range, P-47s will clear the way for the bombers (in theory). We (really me) had a running joke about Bomber Sweeps and about the fighter jocks sleeping late. Even without escorts or prior sweeps, the bombers would have success especially if they lacked coordination. The first waves might get chewed a bit but subsequent waves would face less and less opposition and score many hits.

As Japan, you really come to appreciate the AA units you have especially the ones with the 12cm gun. Placing these where you expect the Allied bombers to attack is a priority. If destroyed, they are high on the buy back list.

One very underappreciated challenge for the Japanese late war is the managing of supply. You have no extra and each supply point becomes precious. I used a lot of Lowpe's tricks of stockpiling supplies and then releasing them with specific bases requesting extra. If might take two days to get supply somewhere. It is one of the few simple joys to see a base fill with supply.

Wa



Very nice. There is, not mentioned, the VP won by bombing industry/resources etc on the HI. I messed up a little in my game by not realizing VP were awarded for bombing resources and the Allies had lots of uncontested runs.

For Japan, AA is immensely important. There never is enough, and I went hunting thru the TOE even going so far as to air transport some units in the hopes the AA devices went. I can remember doing that with the late war 40MM...which is such a step up from 20 and 25mm.






(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 6225
RE: 1945 July 25 - 3/1/2017 4:47:49 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I am unsure if this is active ?

I do have two questions for both players.

Follow up from Lowpe albeit specific...

1) Strategic bombing of oil supplies in the DEI circa mid 1943 ....

Seriously wounded Witpqs Bomber reserves even on towards late game... was Andav aware ? Witpqs was pretty skinny for a while in heavy bombers. Could knowledge of that changed your strategy ?
Love to hear Admiral Wa's answer. It sure dictated how I conducted my air campaigns!
WA: I had no idea he was thin. I am not one of those players who count the production of the other side. I was probably just glad they stopped showing up!

Seriously hampered Home Island resources ??!!.... as Andav just quoted above oil from DEI dried up in early 1944... was Witpqs aware ? Would have you changed your attack vector from CRB if you were aware ?
No, because IIRC it was the Cam Ranh Bay operation that cut the oil and fuel flow from the DEI. Certainly earlier operations onto bases on the eastern side of the South China Sea must have had an impact by putting convoys at greater risk and requiring countermeasures, but I presume that the much-talked about land route for DEI products from Singapore to safer ports nearer Japan was operating. And I had no idea how much was flowing through that route. CRB both gave me a base on the mainland side of the South China Sea and cut the rail line, doubtless an important component of the land petrochemical route. Even considering only the sea route, the IJN was still quite powerful and fully capable of escorting convoys through the South China Sea when the coordinated Pegu and CRB operations were launched.

WA: Cam Ranh Bay was really the nail in the coffin for oil/fuel from the DEI. The previous invasions of Northern Borneo made the trip much more difficult. Cam Ranh Bay killed the Magic Highway. This is why the KB and the rest of the IJN went for it's last Banzai. Until the troops

2) Battle of Truk

The Battle of Truk was very long and drawn out. Countless audiance gasps at how long it took even in game terms.

The major carrier battle occurred on page 37.The invasion of Truk is mentioned.

By page 41 August 1 1943 Truk is invaded. By page 47 Sept 20 1943 its beginning to wind down Forts = 0

By page 48 Sept 28 Truk was won.

WitPqs was cycling INF divisions on and off island as they got beat up. Cycled in an entire unplanned INF DIV to get the job done. Carrier and CVE support hung around for a substantial period of time.

Japan still controlled Wolei Island.

In hindsight would have General Andav counter punched with more or even "everything" at Truk ? A fast surface combat raid verses carriers and troop ships? Planes? More subs?

WA: This was another time where witpqs caught me under prepared/with no pants on. I should have had a stronger garrison here. IIRC I did fly in parts of a regiment to help the defense. The previous CV clash left me very vulnerable so surface raids and such were really not possible. I also did not want to defend too far forward as well so at some point you just have to decide if the battle is worth the cost. Without CV support, I just could not do much.

In hindsight despite the strategy to hold all key spots on a vector line and clean up afterwards... would Witpqs bypass next time ? It may have frankly delayed victory by over 2 months and relatively speaking was the troop cost worth it ?
Would I bypass if I had it to do over again? No. It was an opportunistic invasion (due to the prior carrier battle results) and the course of it was mostly because it was a major - and most valuable - learning experience. Truk was a great base for the invasion of the Marianas and even afterward. That said let me clarify: in exactly the same situation I would do it again, and do it better. In another game in a 'similar' (but not identical) situation, maybe not. That would be a judgement call for that situation.

WA:I think a stronger garrison at Truk makes bypass the best option. The CD there is some of the best in the game. While it is a great port, I think in most cases it is not worth the time and resources.

The AA at Truk was pretty brutal for witpqs for a long time. I wrote a couple of letters on behalf of his 2E bomber pilots asking why he kept trying to get them killed with those low level strafing missions.


(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 6226
RE: 1945 July 25 - 3/1/2017 4:51:44 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

There is, not mentioned, the VP won by bombing industry/resources etc on the HI. I messed up a little in my game by not realizing VP were awarded for bombing resources and the Allies had lots of uncontested runs.


My biggest problem VP wise was not sinking any of witpqs fleet carriers. While I dented a few, I did not sink one CV. Sinking 3 or 4 would have help to stave off auto victory for a while longer and helped even things up a bit. Major kudos to witpqs for keeping his flattops alive!

Wa

(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 6227
RE: 1945 July 25 - 3/5/2017 9:57:43 AM   
Roger Neilson 3


Posts: 960
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline
Having been away on holiday for a month in Sri Lanka (Ceyolon)I get back to find a lot has happened here, will have to do some reading. Congratulations to you both.

Roger

_____________________________


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Post #: 6228
RE: 1945 July 25 - 3/5/2017 3:21:13 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 4170
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline
mooooochos gracias

"WA: Cam Ranh Bay was really the nail in the coffin for oil/fuel from the DEI. The previous invasions of Northern Borneo made the trip much more difficult. Cam Ranh Bay killed the Magic Highway. This is why the KB and the rest of the IJN went for it's last Banzai. Until the troops " WA

I copied the move with great success, possible copy right infringement.


< Message edited by zuluhour -- 3/5/2017 3:24:28 PM >

(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 6229
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