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Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 10:34:02 AM   
MartialDoctor


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There's a couple of issues that I was hoping would be changed with Legends but haven't been.

The main issue is with disputed bases. They are just worth far too much currently - much more than they are worth.

Take my current game. The humans recently colonized a system that I had a few mining bases in. These mining bases weren't anything that special - they were all just very common or common resources, ranging from steel to caslon. They had reasonable percentages of each but, again, nothing that great.

The human empire would offer me 450K each after they first colonized it! And now, they will offer me almost 700K for each one left!! I can't believe it. Bases that are so unimportant, types they can find all over the galaxy, and they are offering me that much.

Another example in the same game. The ugnari (spelling?) have a research center in one of my recently settled and they would want more than 6 million for the station!! 6 MILLION... why in the world would I ever pay that much for a research station? Granted, it has a 27% bonus but, come on. I can simply build two bases, which would only cost me 1K more in maintenance, and I could get a much higher research output.

Granted, having them in dispute should increase the value slightly as they would give quick access to resources. However, I see no reason why a typical station would be worth more than 50K (unless the resource is in high demand by the empire or the percentage is high), with more valuable resources obviously increasing this value. For the latter example, the 6 million is an enormous amount. Even if I wanted it, I wouldn't pay more than, say, 60K or so for it (since it has a bonus). I can build other research stations anywhere for 5K each.

On a similar note, it would be nice to actually be able to trade bases or planets. Is there any reason this hasn't been implemented yet? It would be a nice feature.
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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 11:46:13 AM   
martok


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Wow. Six million's is easily the most I've seen offered/demanded for a base, regardless of type or location. That's just insane!



quote:

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor

On a similar note, it would be nice to actually be able to trade bases or planets. Is there any reason this hasn't been implemented yet? It would be a nice feature.

A big +1 here. This is another feature that I'm honestly surprised isn't already in the game.




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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 12:28:49 PM   
J HG T


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We concur. Both on planet/base trading and about putting sensible caps on base trading values. Heck, I'm not even sure if I've ever got as much as six million credits at hand! Crazy...

Also, gifting state ships would be so great. Simpliest way to do this would probably be to allow gifting of fleet of ships. Just put ships you want to give to a fleet, call your friend, select the fleet and they are moved to other empires control.
Just my idea on the matter.


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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 12:30:04 PM   
Bingeling

 

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You can trade disputed bases and planets, though...

The research center can be worth a lot. In my current game, 6x6 400 stars and starting in the corner, I am currently a filthy rich Zenox Technocracy. I started in the corner, and have never seen the sniff of an available energy research location, or a resort location. And I have explored all the galaxy. I have multiple available weapon and hi-tec locations, though.

The secret of value of the best research site, is that it increases the research output beyond the maximum research potential. So a 10% energy research site increases all energy research by 10%. Never underestimate the power of a good research site, but only the best one for each type is in effect. You can see your bonuses in the "research station" part of the tech window.


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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 12:52:15 PM   
feelotraveller


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I'd lay bets that it is a Hi-Tech research facility.

The Ugnari are nuts about Hi-Tech.

Check their victory conditions.

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 12:57:11 PM   
MartialDoctor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

The secret of value of the best research site, is that it increases the research output beyond the maximum research potential. So a 10% energy research site increases all energy research by 10%. Never underestimate the power of a good research site, but only the best one for each type is in effect. You can see your bonuses in the "research station" part of the tech window.



I was wondering about this. Thanks for pointing it out.

That would make the research center in my example worth more, but not 6 million

What makes it stranger is that the value can vary so widely. It just went down to 3.7 million now for no apparent reason.

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 12:57:37 PM   
MartialDoctor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

I'd lay bets that it is a Hi-Tech research facility.

The Ugnari are nuts about Hi-Tech.

Check their victory conditions.


Actually, it's a weapons research facility.

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 1:00:16 PM   
feelotraveller


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Well shiver my timbers, I'm surprised.

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 4:34:50 PM   
MartialDoctor


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As a continuation of outrageous values for certain things.  I recently went to war with a couple of races, the Kiadian and, their allies, the Humans.  I tried to get the Ugnari, who I am on very good terms with and have a free trade agreement with, and are also angry with the Kiadians to go to war with the Kiadian.  They wanted 7 million +.  The humans wanted a similar amount to make peace with them.

To put things into perspective, I have $600K, with around a 0 net income (due to military spending).  These other guys have much less than that... maybe 200K, probably making around 30 - 60K per month would be my guess.  So, that gives you an idea of how much 7 million is for any races involved.  It's basically impossible to come up with that kind of money.  Even if I had massive amounts of techs they didn't have, I still wouldn't be able to come up with 7 million worth of tech! And I've been on the opposite end of this before where I was able to get a race to give me all of their tech (about 10+ techs) just to join them in a war I was going to join anyways!

Has anyone had reasonable amounts for wars / peace offers.  The only time I've seen a reasonable offer was when I had a mutual defense pact with someone and they offered to come to my aid :)

Also, in terms of making demands, having planets, bases, or techs to actually demand would be helpful.  As of now, if you are on bad terms with someone, you can't demand anything from them (since techs aren't offered to you).


< Message edited by MartialDoctor -- 11/29/2011 4:35:44 PM >

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/29/2011 6:26:10 PM   
Gelatinous Cube


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It's very situational. The AIs don't really start back-stabbing eachother until the colony rush is over, then you'll notice the prices on DoW requests begin to drop a bit, as empires focus on who they're going to kill.

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/30/2011 2:05:19 AM   
MartialDoctor


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Yeah, that would make sense. However, the prices are still astronomically high as I pointed out. Possibly, their value is calculated using a similar mechanism to calculate the value of disputed bases. If these were all to be brought down to more appropriate levels, it would be nice.

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/30/2011 3:04:49 AM   
siekster

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor


Has anyone had reasonable amounts for wars / peace offers.  The only time I've seen a reasonable offer was when I had a mutual defense pact with someone and they offered to come to my aid :)

Also, in terms of making demands, having planets, bases, or techs to actually demand would be helpful.  As of now, if you are on bad terms with someone, you can't demand anything from them (since techs aren't offered to you).



Recently finished a war with the Dhayut that they started against me. I smashed their fleets (40 some ships) and captured 2 planets, before deciding to pursue peace because my own economy was taking a beating and I kept having to pay off the other surrounding insect races so they wouldn't declare war on me while I was dealing with the Dhayut. It cost me 140,000 to get them to agree.

Meanwhile, I had a mutual defense pact with the Ketarov, and it cost me 0 to get them to join the war. Now they are continuing the war while I recover.

All in all, those seemed like reasonable figures. However, when I polled a few of the other races, it would have cost me about 12 million for them to join. I guess if someone asked me to join a war that I didn't want to fight, I'd throw them a number like that too, but some of the races were at angry relations with the Dhayut. The only thing the Dhayut had going for them was their close relations with the Tyr and Boskarans, both powerful in my game, which may have influenced the number perhaps?

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/30/2011 4:07:22 AM   
Manzikert

 

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The prices are just completely out of proportion with the actual economy in the game.  Frankly I am surprised many of the bases have any value at all.  Their value is extremely marginal.  Meanwhiel the teachs are WAY WAY WAY too cheap (both to research and purchase considering what you get) and the research locations and other bases way way too expensive.

And yes I realize that you only get the best research bonus, but I have seen crappy locations I wouldn't even use going for 13 million.  For that kind of money I could take out several empires.

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RE: Disputed Bases & Trading of Bases - 11/30/2011 9:37:37 AM   
Bingeling

 

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From my current games as I remember it, in a phase where my zenox got early titan beam, soon have all prerequisites for the final hyperdrive, and still struggle with 500 max ship size (stupid AI). Just to give a hint about tech level.

Some values:

10 million - the cash of my now filthy rich empire. Increasing.
1.5 million - a normal price for a normal tech
6 million - an advanced tech
50 million - the value of my monitoring station that got into an AI empire's sphere of influence with a patch
20-25 million - gas mines

And wars cost 50 million+++

The value of a gas mine is out of proportion. But it is a balance factor, you can swap them, but you can't buy them. I had 3 contested mines offered for my monitoring station. I believe mine values scale with the economy, at the start of the game they are low. The tech values seems more constant. And of course, your income levels are more constant but of course improving.

The AI offered me 3 contested gas mines for one monitoring station. That was a good deal, it offered 10 million+ value overhead. Too bad I like that monitoring station, and don't really need those contested mining bases. The monitoring station is useful in any war, and the mining bases are not badly needed, and gone if I ever end up in war with that empire

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