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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

 
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/12/2013 3:24:11 AM   
Mikawa


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From: From Bridge Chokai
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Awesome! Banzai! Nice to give a little back!

(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 1621
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/14/2013 10:46:38 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13991
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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28 Jun 42

Quick turn.

The I-168 ate a depth charge off Sydney. Damage wasn't too bad at 22-35(31)-0-0 but she'll be out of the war for a while.

The B-17s hit Buna today.

Other Stuff

The new bits and pieces of the 1 and 2 Tank Divisions are loading. They did a number on the vehicle points dropping the pool from 8246 to 5426. It'll keep dropping for the next couple of turns, but only by a couple hundred a turn. Glad I kept the factories on.

_____________________________


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(in reply to Mikawa)
Post #: 1622
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/14/2013 10:54:02 PM   
Mike Solli


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Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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29 Jun 42

Sub War

The Ro-63, off Cairns, put a bunch of shell holes into an xAKL. No report of her sinking.

SE Fleet

Buna looks like the landscape of the moon now from today's visit from the B-17s. The Nicks are almost fully repaired. They'll begin movement to this area tomorrow (from Bangkok).

Other Stuff

Reinforcements:

246 Sentai (24x Nates) - 51 Air Division - transferred to 5 Air Division and upgraded to Oscars. When repaired, they'll move to SE Fleet area giving the 5 Air Division a third fighter sentai (in addition to the Nick sentai). This sentai will increase in strength to 36 in Dec 42.

2 Area Army - Southern Army - Headed to Java.
2 Army - 2 Area Army - Headed to Java.
1 Area Army - Kwantung Army

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1623
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/14/2013 10:55:49 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1957
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

28 Jun 42

Quick turn.

The I-168 ate a depth charge off Sydney. Damage wasn't too bad at 22-35(31)-0-0 but she'll be out of the war for a while.

The B-17s hit Buna today.

Other Stuff

The new bits and pieces of the 1 and 2 Tank Divisions are loading. They did a number on the vehicle points dropping the pool from 8246 to 5426. It'll keep dropping for the next couple of turns, but only by a couple hundred a turn. Glad I kept the factories on.


What level are you're vehicle factories at the moment mike?
I can't remember


_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
- Michael Burleigh


(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1624
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/14/2013 11:03:37 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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30 Jun 42

Sub War

The I-155 had orders to patrol off Perth. She finally caught an xAK, putting her down with 2 torpedo hits.

SE Fleet

Milne Bay caught the wrath of the B-17s today. Three days until the Nicks are on line to begin the hunt for 4Es.

Burma

I've been flying LRCAP with a small percentage of an Oscar sentai over Akyab. If you recall, I have a division on the road just NE of Akyab cutting the land route there. I've mined the hex and the CAP has been shooting down transports. Akyab is cut off. Today, Ted sent 10x Wellington Ics and 13x B-25Cs (first time seeing them in this theater) to bomb my division. Six Oscars opposed them shooting down 2 of the B-25s. The bombing run was unsuccessful. Tomorrow, I'll have a full sentai over my division. More bombers. Mmmm....

Other Stuff

Reinforcements:

66 Sentai (36 Sonias) - 2 Air Division - Will do LowN training for future Kamikazes (but we're not telling them that).
CHa-37 - ASW



_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1625
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/14/2013 11:06:52 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

28 Jun 42

Quick turn.

The I-168 ate a depth charge off Sydney. Damage wasn't too bad at 22-35(31)-0-0 but she'll be out of the war for a while.

The B-17s hit Buna today.

Other Stuff

The new bits and pieces of the 1 and 2 Tank Divisions are loading. They did a number on the vehicle points dropping the pool from 8246 to 5426. It'll keep dropping for the next couple of turns, but only by a couple hundred a turn. Glad I kept the factories on.


What level are you're vehicle factories at the moment mike?
I can't remember



Only 150. The pool peaked at 14,956 on 22 June. The Tank Division elements arrived on 23 Jun and the pool dropped to 8281. On the 30 Jun turn it's at 5146. It'll probably continue to decrease for awhile, but it'll build back up as the elements finish building to max strength. If I were to start again (God forbid), I'd probably bump it up to ~170 or so. I'm going to keep it at 150 to see how things pan out.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 1626
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/14/2013 11:33:56 PM   
Mike Solli


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Speaking of economics, with the start of the new month, my stats are looking pretty good. Note that none of this includes stuff currently loaded in convoys.

Supply: +143k from last month.
Fuel: -53k - I know there is >100k fuel in convoys right now.
Oil: -120k - Lots of oil in convoys too.
HI: +87k - Currently at 232k. I'm confident I'll exceed my goal of 700k by the end of the year. I'm getting 4000 to 4500 HI a day.
Armament: +3k - 100,539 in the pool right now. The tank division elements are pretty much eating up the 120 factory production I currently have on. I may turn on ~50 of the 500 that are off for a bit until the elements are fully repaired.
Vehicle - -6.8k - discussed above.

Japanese Score: 20,827 (+883)
Allied Score: 10,088 (+373)
Japanese Ships lost: 118 (1141 pts)
Allied Ships lost: 222 (1593 pts)
Japanese ships lost this month: 5 (13 pts)
Allied ships lost this month: 23 (135 pts)

Japanese ships lost:
3 - xAKL
2 - SSX

Allied ships lost:
1 - CVL - Hermes - not sure she sank.
1 - SS
1 - DMS
2 - AM
2 - TK
1 - AP
4 - xAK
4 - xAKL

Other Stuff:

The Akagi, Kaga and 6x Shiratsuyus are at Kobe and will enter refit in July. The Shokaku and Zuikaku have completed refit and will arrive at Davao to fill out KB (Soryu). Ryujo is currently attached to MKB at Singapore. She'll move back to Davao shortly.

July brings the ability to change the size of many carrier daitai. Here's the new makeup of KB and MKB:

Ship-Zeros-Vals-Kates

KB:
Akagi-27-27-27
Kaga-27-27-18
Soryu-27-18-18
Ryujo-30-0-18
Shokaku-27-27-18
Zuikaku-27-27-18

Total-165-126-117

MKB:
Junyo-27-18-9
Shoho-21-0-9
Zuiho-21-0-9
Hosho-14-0-6
Taiyo-9-18-0
Unyo-0-0-27

Total-92-36-60

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1627
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/14/2013 11:44:10 PM   
Empire101


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Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

28 Jun 42

Quick turn.

The I-168 ate a depth charge off Sydney. Damage wasn't too bad at 22-35(31)-0-0 but she'll be out of the war for a while.

The B-17s hit Buna today.

Other Stuff

The new bits and pieces of the 1 and 2 Tank Divisions are loading. They did a number on the vehicle points dropping the pool from 8246 to 5426. It'll keep dropping for the next couple of turns, but only by a couple hundred a turn. Glad I kept the factories on.


What level are you're vehicle factories at the moment mike?
I can't remember



Only 150. The pool peaked at 14,956 on 22 June. The Tank Division elements arrived on 23 Jun and the pool dropped to 8281. On the 30 Jun turn it's at 5146. It'll probably continue to decrease for awhile, but it'll build back up as the elements finish building to max strength. If I were to start again (God forbid), I'd probably bump it up to ~170 or so. I'm going to keep it at 150 to see how things pan out.


Hmmmm.....150-170.

I built up my vehicle factories to 400 in my present game, and I'm beginning to regret it.
I have to keep switching off my vehicle factories every few turns as it starts to overheat my economy

I think you are right Mike, although I think in my next game I'd go somewhere in the region of 175-200.


_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
- Michael Burleigh


(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1628
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/14/2013 11:51:03 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

Hmmmm.....150-170.

I built up my vehicle factories to 400 in my present game, and I'm beginning to regret it.
I have to keep switching off my vehicle factories every few turns as it starts to overheat my economy

I think you are right Mike, although I think in my next game I'd go somewhere in the region of 175-200.



I'm trying to minimize production of everything. Yeah, I know, that's a big risk. I remember my first game of WitP when I upgraded my A6M2s to A6M3as. I ended up with almost 1000 M2s in the pool. I don't mind a pool with planes I can use as Kamikazes, but that really hit home. My Zero pool right now is ~10 or so. The A6M3a comes online in about a week. When it does, the A6M2 production stops. I'll still have a sizable pool, but I can live with that. I estimate it'll be ~450. They'll eventually be used as trainers.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 1629
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 3:12:21 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101


Hmmmm.....150-170.

I built up my vehicle factories to 400 in my present game, and I'm beginning to regret it.
I have to keep switching off my vehicle factories every few turns as it starts to overheat my economy

I think you are right Mike, although I think in my next game I'd go somewhere in the region of 175-200.


ARM are expensive ... 6xHI each. 400 ARM => 2400Hi used each turn. That a lot for IJ. Easy to sink the economy with ARM ... IJ just doesn't have the economy to build much.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 1630
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 5:26:48 AM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

Hmmmm.....150-170.

I built up my vehicle factories to 400 in my present game, and I'm beginning to regret it.
I have to keep switching off my vehicle factories every few turns as it starts to overheat my economy

I think you are right Mike, although I think in my next game I'd go somewhere in the region of 175-200.



I'm trying to minimize production of everything. Yeah, I know, that's a big risk. I remember my first game of WitP when I upgraded my A6M2s to A6M3as. I ended up with almost 1000 M2s in the pool. I don't mind a pool with planes I can use as Kamikazes, but that really hit home. My Zero pool right now is ~10 or so. The A6M3a comes online in about a week. When it does, the A6M2 production stops. I'll still have a sizable pool, but I can live with that. I estimate it'll be ~450. They'll eventually be used as trainers.


I learned these lessons the hard way in my first AAR game. I built A6M2 Zero's at the rate of 233/month thinking that I could switch production over to the A6M3a. Wrong! Lesson learned.

I still probably over produced the A6M2 factory this time to the tune of 100/month, but I'm not building up a big pool and I turn the factory off most times to conserve the HI. I think 50-75 could be the sweet spot depending on the amount of combat early. As long as KB can replace any significant losses till the A6M3a arrives I'm happy.

I have six vehicle factories providing 240 points per day. By April I've reached a pool of 10k so should be in good shape for the remainder of 42 at the current pace of operations. Armament production is perhaps a little on the low side at 340 points per day and a pool of less than 30k so I may have to increase this number.

I've increased HI moderately, but instituted an expansion CAP to keep fuel usage within reason. My HI pool currently sits at 560k as of April 9/42. Now it's all about the crude.

My favourite part of the game seems to be the economy since I tend to suck at achieving any kind of significant CV battle regardless of my efforts. I get more excited about a tanker arriving safely than naval combat sometimes.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1631
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 10:56:37 AM   
Mike Solli


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Lemon, my A6M2 is at 100 as well. I needed that at the start to upgrade the Claude daitai. I don't think I turned Zeros off at all but my real issue is IJN fighter pilots. That's picking up though. I should get several dozen mid-July to ease my shortage.

Remember I had 14k vehicle points when the elements of the 1 & 2 Tank Divisions arrived in June. About a week later and I'm down to 5k. You'll need those points. I'm very reluctant to upgrade tank regiments. Keep an eye on armor reinforcements. They can suck you dry pretty quickly.

I'm doing major expansion of HI in Java, but just to use the resources produced on that island as well as the little sources all around Java. It'll be ~250-300 or so when it's complete.

I'm really curious how you got an HI pool of 560k by Apr 42!

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Post #: 1632
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 11:01:49 AM   
GreyJoy


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Mike, i know you're the guru of Japanese economy so i beg you some insight...

How much oil tons do you produce daily? How much is needed by your refineries? It seems to me that, no matter what you do, if you conquer the historical perimeter you will surely run out of oil in 1944 at best (just oil, not fuel). Am i missing something?

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1633
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 11:04:57 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Mike, i know you're the guru of Japanese economy so i beg you some insight...

How much oil tons do you produce daily? How much is needed by your refineries? It seems to me that, no matter what you do, if you conquer the historical perimeter you will surely run out of oil in 1944 at best (just oil, not fuel). Am i missing something?



I'm very curious about this too, and if you can help that would be great. My oil is pretty low, and I thought it would be getting dire by mid-44. Strangely I've just had a leveling at about 500k in 12/43, so maybe it won't keep dropping quite as quickly as I thought. I did shut off a few HI refineries, so maybe that's some of it.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1634
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 11:14:15 AM   
GreyJoy


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Don't know if it's wise to stop the refineries Erik. Why would you stockpile crude oil shutting down refineries? It's fuel what we need!

In my game i'm short of 3300 oil tons each and i can't figure out how i can change this course of events... simply too many refineries for the oil pumps available

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1635
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 11:21:14 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Don't know if it's wise to stop the refineries Erik. Why would you stockpile crude oil shutting down refineries? It's fuel what we need!

In my game i'm short of 3300 oil tons each and i can't figure out how i can change this course of events... simply too many refineries for the oil pumps available


I'll turn them back on to see if it makes a difference. They aren't producing every day due to shortages in the HI though. I just can't get enough of it there to feed them all of the time. I usually have between 2 and 15 days worth there.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1636
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 4:00:48 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I'm really curious how you got an HI pool of 560k by Apr 42!


I turned off most submarine construction, 90% of my merchant shipyards and a big chunk of armament production. So almost from day one I've been banking between 5-6k HI daily. If I increase HI expenditure somewhere, I look for an equal amount to turn off to keep the surplus growing. As my HI expansion kicks in I've slowly been increasing armament and merchant shipyard production again.

I've been able to do this without compromising construction of CV's and other naval vessels. I've been accelerating the CV Taiho, three Unryu CV's and every DD I can from day one while still completing the BB Yamato. When most of my major naval construction is complete I can either save more HI, or make good any shortfalls in armament, vehicle or aircraft production. I'm also in a position to accelerate a number of tankers now and will be looking to add a bunch more as HI becomes available.

It all looks good on paper right now, but a year from now it could be much different.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1637
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 4:19:18 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
I think 50-75 could be the sweet spot depending on the amount of combat early. As long as KB can replace any significant losses till the A6M3a arrives I'm happy.


That's exactly how I view my A6M2 pool / production too, SqzMyLemon. Replacing losses and keeping KB stocked is where it's at. I do want a modest pool to allow for expanded airgroups come 6/42, of course, but not too much, as the A6M3a will be coming out in June-July 1942. It might even be worth 'upgrading' some CVs to A5 Claudes whilest they're in the yards getting their June 1942 refittings done, in order to free up some A6M2s for the usable pool. This can contribute to keeping the A6M2 production at the 50-75 level until the A6M3a comes on line.

quote:


I have six vehicle factories providing 240 points per day. By April I've reached a pool of 10k so should be in good shape for the remainder of 42 at the current pace of operations. Armament production is perhaps a little on the low side at 340 points per day and a pool of less than 30k so I may have to increase this number.


I'm pushing hard in China right now and need replacements / upgrades for my LCUs there to cover losses, yet maintain a schwerpunkt. I'm also cognizant of Obvert's observations on the matter of 'burning through' existing ARM and VEH pools rapidly when large clusters of LCUs (undermanned / under TOE, of course ) come into play.

Thus, I'm still gunning for a 120-125K pool for ARM, 25-30K pool for VEH before I start turning things off.

quote:


I've increased HI moderately, but instituted an expansion CAP to keep fuel usage within reason. My HI pool currently sits at 560k as of April 9/42. Now it's all about the crude.


I think a key is to expand (moderately, of course) HI in those areas that are natural reservoirs for fuel and resources. Canton-Hong Kong; Batavia-Soerbaja, Port Arthur and Singapore seem intuitive. Minimal 'special' transport needed to get stuff back to the home islands. I don't think I've ever expanded HI on the home islands per se.

quote:


I get more excited about a tanker arriving safely than naval combat sometimes.


Heh. I hear ya. I've done a 'churning butter' JFB dance after landing a massive oil / fuel convoy before.

_____________________________


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Post #: 1638
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 4:21:36 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18077
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From: Twin Cities, MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Don't know if it's wise to stop the refineries Erik. Why would you stockpile crude oil shutting down refineries? It's fuel what we need!

In my game i'm short of 3300 oil tons each and i can't figure out how i can change this course of events... simply too many refineries for the oil pumps available


Importing oil has always been as important as importing fuel, IMO. Oil=fuel and supply from refining, two things that JFBs are always complaining about in scenario 2. I struggle to keep up with demand from home island refineries too, but it's not for want of trying to feed 'em a heavy oil diet from day 1.

_____________________________


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Post #: 1639
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 4:26:36 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Speaking of economics, with the start of the new month, my stats are looking pretty good. Note that none of this includes stuff currently loaded in convoys.

Supply: +143k from last month.
Fuel: -53k - I know there is >100k fuel in convoys right now.
Oil: -120k - Lots of oil in convoys too.
HI: +87k - Currently at 232k. I'm confident I'll exceed my goal of 700k by the end of the year. I'm getting 4000 to 4500 HI a day.
Armament: +3k - 100,539 in the pool right now. The tank division elements are pretty much eating up the 120 factory production I currently have on. I may turn on ~50 of the 500 that are off for a bit until the elements are fully repaired.
Vehicle - -6.8k - discussed above.

Japanese Score: 20,827 (+883)
Allied Score: 10,088 (+373)
Japanese Ships lost: 118 (1141 pts)
Allied Ships lost: 222 (1593 pts)
Japanese ships lost this month: 5 (13 pts)
Allied ships lost this month: 23 (135 pts)

Japanese ships lost:
3 - xAKL
2 - SSX

Allied ships lost:
1 - CVL - Hermes - not sure she sank.
1 - SS
1 - DMS
2 - AM
2 - TK
1 - AP
4 - xAK
4 - xAKL

Other Stuff:

The Akagi, Kaga and 6x Shiratsuyus are at Kobe and will enter refit in July. The Shokaku and Zuikaku have completed refit and will arrive at Davao to fill out KB (Soryu). Ryujo is currently attached to MKB at Singapore. She'll move back to Davao shortly.

July brings the ability to change the size of many carrier daitai. Here's the new makeup of KB and MKB:

Ship-Zeros-Vals-Kates

KB:
Akagi-27-27-27
Kaga-27-27-18
Soryu-27-18-18
Ryujo-30-0-18
Shokaku-27-27-18
Zuikaku-27-27-18

Total-165-126-117

MKB:
Junyo-27-18-9
Shoho-21-0-9
Zuiho-21-0-9
Hosho-14-0-6
Taiyo-9-18-0
Unyo-0-0-27

Total-92-36-60


Hiryu in KB vs. Ryujo? Did you lose her?

_____________________________


(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1640
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 5:36:55 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2875
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From: Alberta, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I have six vehicle factories providing 240 points per day. By April I've reached a pool of 10k so should be in good shape for the remainder of 42 at the current pace of operations. Armament production is perhaps a little on the low side at 340 points per day and a pool of less than 30k so I may have to increase this number.


I'm pushing hard in China right now and need replacements / upgrades for my LCUs there to cover losses, yet maintain a schwerpunkt. I'm also cognizant of Obvert's observations on the matter of 'burning through' existing ARM and VEH pools rapidly when large clusters of LCUs (undermanned / under TOE, of course ) come into play.

Thus, I'm still gunning for a 120-125K pool for ARM, 25-30K pool for VEH before I start turning things off.


Sorry, I should clarify. I'm not turning off any vehicle production at this stage. I meant my pool was growing and that I could sustain this level of production for the remainder of the year without further expansion while maintaining the current pace of operations. I'm hoping to have at least 20k in vehicle points and 100k armaments by the end of 42.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 1/15/2013 5:39:35 PM >


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(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 1641
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 6:31:47 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18077
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From: Twin Cities, MN
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Roger that, Lemon-san.

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Post #: 1642
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 9:34:33 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13991
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Speaking of economics, with the start of the new month, my stats are looking pretty good. Note that none of this includes stuff currently loaded in convoys.

Supply: +143k from last month.
Fuel: -53k - I know there is >100k fuel in convoys right now.
Oil: -120k - Lots of oil in convoys too.
HI: +87k - Currently at 232k. I'm confident I'll exceed my goal of 700k by the end of the year. I'm getting 4000 to 4500 HI a day.
Armament: +3k - 100,539 in the pool right now. The tank division elements are pretty much eating up the 120 factory production I currently have on. I may turn on ~50 of the 500 that are off for a bit until the elements are fully repaired.
Vehicle - -6.8k - discussed above.

Japanese Score: 20,827 (+883)
Allied Score: 10,088 (+373)
Japanese Ships lost: 118 (1141 pts)
Allied Ships lost: 222 (1593 pts)
Japanese ships lost this month: 5 (13 pts)
Allied ships lost this month: 23 (135 pts)

Japanese ships lost:
3 - xAKL
2 - SSX

Allied ships lost:
1 - CVL - Hermes - not sure she sank.
1 - SS
1 - DMS
2 - AM
2 - TK
1 - AP
4 - xAK
4 - xAKL

Other Stuff:

The Akagi, Kaga and 6x Shiratsuyus are at Kobe and will enter refit in July. The Shokaku and Zuikaku have completed refit and will arrive at Davao to fill out KB (Soryu). Ryujo is currently attached to MKB at Singapore. She'll move back to Davao shortly.

July brings the ability to change the size of many carrier daitai. Here's the new makeup of KB and MKB:

Ship-Zeros-Vals-Kates

KB:
Akagi-27-27-27
Kaga-27-27-18
Soryu-27-18-18
Ryujo-30-0-18
Shokaku-27-27-18
Zuikaku-27-27-18

Total-165-126-117

MKB:
Junyo-27-18-9
Shoho-21-0-9
Zuiho-21-0-9
Hosho-14-0-6
Taiyo-9-18-0
Unyo-0-0-27

Total-92-36-60


Hiryu in KB vs. Ryujo? Did you lose her?


Yeah, I lost Hiryu. I pushed KB south of Rabaul to support an invasion of Pt. Moresby in Jan 42 and Ted had put just about every Dutch and S class sub there. Hiryu and Soryu both took multiple torpedoes. Soryu survived but Hiryu succumbed 2 hexes south of Rabaul. I did save the pilots fortunately.

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Post #: 1643
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 10:01:03 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13991
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Mike, i know you're the guru of Japanese economy so i beg you some insight...

How much oil tons do you produce daily? How much is needed by your refineries? It seems to me that, no matter what you do, if you conquer the historical perimeter you will surely run out of oil in 1944 at best (just oil, not fuel). Am i missing something?



Running out of oil is inevitable. Here are the numbers:

Japan has 895 refineries and produces 126 oil. That leaves 895-126=769 extra refinery capacity for SRA oil.

China/Manchuoko/Korea (C/M/K) has 120 refineries and produces 60 oil for an excess of 60 refinery capacity.

SRA has a total of 1960 refineries. I don't count the 300 in Burma (I don't use them as discussed below) or the damaged 150 in Miri (I don't waste supply repairing them). There is 2780 oil to be captured in the SRA. 2780 oil - 1960 refineries = 820 excess oil to be shipped to C/M/K & Japan.

Unless your Allied opponent is stupid, he'll bomb the Magwe (Burma) oil as soon as possible so don't count on that for too long. (Mine is at 133, so I'm counting myself lucky that my opponent has most likely determined that it's destroyed.)

I don't use the Burma refineries because then all of that fuel has to be shipped out through Rangoon (a dicey proposition potentially) or overland. If it goes overland, you lose some to spoilage. I let the oil migrate overland because there is no spoilage of oil. With the excess refinery capability in the Home Islands, you can afford to do this.

Anyway, the 820 to 520 (Burma oil totally damaged) oil gets shipped to China or Japan. Their total excess is 60+769=829. Eventually, you are going to run out of surplus oil in Japan.

I firmly believe that you need to ship all the oil and fuel you can get to Japan. When the oil runs out, you lose 769 supply a day in Japan. That doesn't sound like much, but it is. That's 23,070 supply a month or 276,840 supply a year. It is significant.

You get quite a bit of excess fuel and oil when you capture the SRA. Get it home as soon as you can, because you'll lose some when the US subs become competent (well, at least their torpedoes).

I ship all the oil and fuel from Burma and Sumatra as well as Miri, Brunei, Babo and Boela to Japan. Balikpapan's fuel goes to Truk and Tarakan's fuel goes to Davao (Combined Fleet anchorage). Java's HI is being built up to use the resources produced on that island as well as all the little bases around Java. There will end up being 35-40k excess fuel there a month. I'll ship that where needed. If no one needs it, it'll go to Singapore and to Japan.

There's more oil to be had in China. Sian (20) and Loyang (50) for starters. I've captured both. Loyang was captured intact. I shut off the refinery and let the oil migrate to Pt. Arthur and Sian was totally destroyed. I'm rebuilding the oil but not the refinery. I'll ship the excess oil to Japan.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 1/15/2013 10:05:12 PM >


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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1644
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/15/2013 10:51:14 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6196
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Mike, i know you're the guru of Japanese economy so i beg you some insight...

How much oil tons do you produce daily? How much is needed by your refineries? It seems to me that, no matter what you do, if you conquer the historical perimeter you will surely run out of oil in 1944 at best (just oil, not fuel). Am i missing something?



Running out of oil is inevitable. Here are the numbers:

Japan has 895 refineries and produces 126 oil. That leaves 895-126=769 extra refinery capacity for SRA oil.

China/Manchuoko/Korea (C/M/K) has 120 refineries and produces 60 oil for an excess of 60 refinery capacity.

SRA has a total of 1960 refineries. I don't count the 300 in Burma (I don't use them as discussed below) or the damaged 150 in Miri (I don't waste supply repairing them). There is 2780 oil to be captured in the SRA. 2780 oil - 1960 refineries = 820 excess oil to be shipped to C/M/K & Japan.

Unless your Allied opponent is stupid, he'll bomb the Magwe (Burma) oil as soon as possible so don't count on that for too long. (Mine is at 133, so I'm counting myself lucky that my opponent has most likely determined that it's destroyed.)

I don't use the Burma refineries because then all of that fuel has to be shipped out through Rangoon (a dicey proposition potentially) or overland. If it goes overland, you lose some to spoilage. I let the oil migrate overland because there is no spoilage of oil. With the excess refinery capability in the Home Islands, you can afford to do this.

Anyway, the 820 to 520 (Burma oil totally damaged) oil gets shipped to China or Japan. Their total excess is 60+769=829. Eventually, you are going to run out of surplus oil in Japan.

I firmly believe that you need to ship all the oil and fuel you can get to Japan. When the oil runs out, you lose 769 supply a day in Japan. That doesn't sound like much, but it is. That's 23,070 supply a month or 276,840 supply a year. It is significant.

You get quite a bit of excess fuel and oil when you capture the SRA. Get it home as soon as you can, because you'll lose some when the US subs become competent (well, at least their torpedoes).

I ship all the oil and fuel from Burma and Sumatra as well as Miri, Brunei, Babo and Boela to Japan. Balikpapan's fuel goes to Truk and Tarakan's fuel goes to Davao (Combined Fleet anchorage). Java's HI is being built up to use the resources produced on that island as well as all the little bases around Java. There will end up being 35-40k excess fuel there a month. I'll ship that where needed. If no one needs it, it'll go to Singapore and to Japan.

There's more oil to be had in China. Sian (20) and Loyang (50) for starters. I've captured both. Loyang was captured intact. I shut off the refinery and let the oil migrate to Pt. Arthur and Sian was totally destroyed. I'm rebuilding the oil but not the refinery. I'll ship the excess oil to Japan.


Thanks Mike! Very informative and excellent post!
It sounds like my calculations were correct. The only difference is that in DBB mod refineries don't produce supplies, so my priority for oil instead of fuel is downgraded. I don't find Babo and Boela oil to be really needed....or better said: the efforts and risks to run convoys with TKs in waters so close to the front and the need to expand the ports there and to place some naval support ( or naval engineers in DBB) are not efficient in my general picture. In april 1943, however, the reserves of oil in Japan have already reached the risky level of 250k....and it seems to me that the efforts related to move oil ( which requires more than double the time needed to load/unload fuel) back to Japan aren't that well put if compared to the fuel i could have moved back using the same assets/time.
I'll try to bring it home, obviously, but my priority goes to fuel which is much more efficient imho, and can also be hauled by xAKs if needed.

Wn't hyjack anymore your wonderfull AAR....thanks again! Now back to thewar

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1645
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/16/2013 12:16:16 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13991
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
No hijack, Greyjoy. I love to talk about this stuff.

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1646
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/16/2013 6:58:06 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6993
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Mike, i know you're the guru of Japanese economy so i beg you some insight...

How much oil tons do you produce daily? How much is needed by your refineries? It seems to me that, no matter what you do, if you conquer the historical perimeter you will surely run out of oil in 1944 at best (just oil, not fuel). Am i missing something?



Running out of oil is inevitable. Here are the numbers:

Japan has 895 refineries and produces 126 oil. That leaves 895-126=769 extra refinery capacity for SRA oil.

China/Manchuoko/Korea (C/M/K) has 120 refineries and produces 60 oil for an excess of 60 refinery capacity.

SRA has a total of 1960 refineries. I don't count the 300 in Burma (I don't use them as discussed below) or the damaged 150 in Miri (I don't waste supply repairing them). There is 2780 oil to be captured in the SRA. 2780 oil - 1960 refineries = 820 excess oil to be shipped to C/M/K & Japan.

Unless your Allied opponent is stupid, he'll bomb the Magwe (Burma) oil as soon as possible so don't count on that for too long. (Mine is at 133, so I'm counting myself lucky that my opponent has most likely determined that it's destroyed.)

I don't use the Burma refineries because then all of that fuel has to be shipped out through Rangoon (a dicey proposition potentially) or overland. If it goes overland, you lose some to spoilage. I let the oil migrate overland because there is no spoilage of oil. With the excess refinery capability in the Home Islands, you can afford to do this.

Anyway, the 820 to 520 (Burma oil totally damaged) oil gets shipped to China or Japan. Their total excess is 60+769=829. Eventually, you are going to run out of surplus oil in Japan.

I firmly believe that you need to ship all the oil and fuel you can get to Japan. When the oil runs out, you lose 769 supply a day in Japan. That doesn't sound like much, but it is. That's 23,070 supply a month or 276,840 supply a year. It is significant.

You get quite a bit of excess fuel and oil when you capture the SRA. Get it home as soon as you can, because you'll lose some when the US subs become competent (well, at least their torpedoes).

I ship all the oil and fuel from Burma and Sumatra as well as Miri, Brunei, Babo and Boela to Japan. Balikpapan's fuel goes to Truk and Tarakan's fuel goes to Davao (Combined Fleet anchorage). Java's HI is being built up to use the resources produced on that island as well as all the little bases around Java. There will end up being 35-40k excess fuel there a month. I'll ship that where needed. If no one needs it, it'll go to Singapore and to Japan.

There's more oil to be had in China. Sian (20) and Loyang (50) for starters. I've captured both. Loyang was captured intact. I shut off the refinery and let the oil migrate to Pt. Arthur and Sian was totally destroyed. I'm rebuilding the oil but not the refinery. I'll ship the excess oil to Japan.


Thanks Mike. This clarifies a lot that I was too lazy or inept to calculate. My use of oil in the HI is sporadic now and I've already seen a difference in the supply production that I don't like much. I have more mostly from smaller bases that is building up in some hubs and now that I have a plethora of medium sized converted TKs I'll begin the passage back of some of this oil as well.

I wonder though how much fuel it takes to ship oil from a lot of the small ports and bases that produce it, like Boela. I can't ship it to Babeldaob anymore from here as US subs are posted all around there and eat up the smaller slower tankers. Manila is also a difficult passage, so I'm considering alternatives. If I ship it around the shallows through Soerabaja>Singapore and then up, it would be potentially safer, but not so efficient. Is it still worth it? That is the question.

I might do some calculations later today and figure out what to do with this based on one size of tanker and its efficiency. If you have any thoughts I'd welcome them about the use of small to medium tankers and their efficiency over time regarding fuel use vs fuel/oil hauling.

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(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1647
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/16/2013 8:37:14 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5753
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
Mike, I'm going to take exception to your numbers.  Or maybe better to say, I feel the need to clarify them.

First, refining capacity doesn't matter in your first order analysis, only oil production as we will assume that you have ample refining capacity.  So let's just start there.

Japan starts with 126 oil centers in Japan, but actually starts with 224 oil centers under its control (Scen 1).  To this, in China and DEI (not including Burma for all the reasons mentioned) you can obtain another 2605 oil centers for a total of 2829 oil centers.  This will refine to 25461 fuel/day (assuming enough refining capacity which is rarely a limitation).

Now let's look at HI, your industrial fuel consumer.  You start with 6950 HI in your control as Japan.  To that you have, within the same area as above, the opportunity to capture 1020 more.  Let's assume though that this is captured at 50% damaged, thus 610 more before any repairs.  Thus in total you have 7560 HI factories requiring 15120 fuel each day.

Your surplus steady state fuel for your empire is then 10341/day at your empires historical peak.  Or if you want to back that to oil centers, 1149 excess oil centers over what you need for your industry.

Now, your major fuel consumer is your fleet.  If you build your entire fleet, and have them at CRUISE speed, they potentially can use 83,970 fuel/day, at mission speed that is 251,908 fuel/day.  Not suggesting that you will use this much, but as a player you have to understand that the IJN can and does use an incredible amount of fuel.  This daily usage is entirely under player control.  Disbanded in port, a ship uses zero fuel.

What do all these numbers mean?

Simple, taking the DEI gives you plenty of oil/fuel for you economy with NO expansion of HI.  Your fleet, and it movements though, are what require the most careful consideration.  When you read Mike's AAR's, note how carefully he plans all of his resource shipments.  Why?  To minimize fuel expenditure.  Note how carefully he plans his expansions.  Why?  To minimize fuel expenditure.  One of the best, and most simple tactics, that the allies can do is to simply force the KB to respond continually across its empire to threats.  That response alone will eventually crash the empire economy for most players.  You do not have the fuel to support it.  The IJ fleet needs to be disbanded in port as close to 95% of the time as you can possibly do so to conserve fuel.

So, when looking at your oil/fuel numbers in your game if you are running short of fuel it means quite simply that you are moving more ships than your economy can support.  The more HI expansion and repair that you do, the fewer ships you can move because the amount of oil/fuel you can get is essentially a fixed number.

All of the above is only a first order analysis.  You can easily take this quite deeper.

PS: I did these calcs several years ago, but I'm not aware anything in the economy has changed in Scen 1 so these should be the same.


< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 1/16/2013 8:47:56 AM >


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Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1648
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/16/2013 10:55:56 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13991
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
Pax, amazing stuff! Just copied it so I can really read it at lunch. Thanks!

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Post #: 1649
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/16/2013 11:56:58 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6196
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
Pax, thanks a lot!



My tracker, however, says that in Japan i have 6070 HI industries, plus 90 in Hokkaido... this is a DBB scenario 30 (kind of scenario 2 stock) but afaik they didn't change the industrial output in DBB so it should be the same as stock.



Your considerations about fuel usage of the fleet are scaring the hell out of me!...should i believe what tracker says about daily fuel usage?

Also, after having checked, it seems to me that ships not disbanded in port, but simply sitting there, don't consume fuel...am i wrong?





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