Matrix Games Forums

War in the West gets its first update!Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm version 2.08 is now available!Command gets huge update!Order of Battle: Pacific Featured on Weekly Streaming SessionA new fight for Battle Academy!Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager is out for Mac!The definitive wargame of the Western Front is out now! War in the West gets teaser trailer and Twitch Stream!New Preview AAR for War in the West!War in the West Manual preview
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: THE THREAD!!!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> RE: THE THREAD!!! Page: <<   < prev  440 441 [442] 443 444   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:16:18 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18489
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
Nicely said, Leo.

What's surprising to me is how *low* the rate of gun-related homicide is in the US. For a country awash in guns (almost one gun per capita here), we've a low-moderate *rate* associated with it. Access has never been equal to use here, something that is a confounder for many, but does trace itself back to our 'citizen militia' roots.

_____________________________


(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 13231
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:17:44 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18489
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
Hey...a 'citizen militia' UNP. Thanks for leaving that door open, Viking dude.

_____________________________


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13232
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:20:27 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
I have no idea what justifies these rail prices in San Fernando Valley, CA when in order to get to Camarillo by car all I have to do is hop on the 118 freeway for 40 minutes. There is never any traffic, the scenery is very much enjoyable, the roads are in perfect condition and there are oodles of parking everywhere. I just dont understand it.


Bozo urban planners that think that the Los Angeles basin should emulate the Eastern US / Metro London / Paris in all ways? People that forget that that area was a cropland 50 years ago and won't ever be an urban hub justifying mass transit? People that vote for a 90 billion dollar high speed rail system with its first station in rural central California?


Well, I dont think that these efforts are entirely baseless. For example, there is a relatively new commuter express bus that runs from North Hollywood to Chatsworth and Woodland Hills that seems like an awesome idea. They took the old, disused land that used to belong to a local rail line which runs parallel to Oxnard Ave./Victory Blvd and built a dedicated bus lane, with synchronized lights. At rush hour these busses basically skip every stoplight. A buddy of mine who lives in Hollywood and works here in Chatsworth takes it to work every day. The ride takes about an hour and costs only a couple of bucks for a one-way trip. This in comparison to a similar or greater time spent in traffic on the 101/405/118 and probably double the cost in gas without even figuring in the wear and tear on the vehicle. That idea I can absolutely get behind.

They also put in parking lots at every station where people can park their cars before hopping on the mass transit and even a biking/jogging track that runs from almost North Hollywood to Woodland Hills. I dont know when you were here last, Andre, but from my recollection of 10 years ago when I moved to NY the traffic in the LA area has gotten much worse! It used to be that the only places you could really count on hitting traffic was the 405 around the Getty Museum/Mulholland Pass area and Downtown. Now pretty much any time I've gotten on the 101 its been a parking lot. These commuter buses and subways make perfect sense in the urban areas. But Chatsworth is pretty much the suburban boonies and the Metrolink line doesnt even go to the city.

My real complaint is the prices. If these trains cost $2-$5, you bet your chicken farm that people would be using them more often. Why would I drive 40 minutes and spend $10-12 bucks in gas if I could drive to the train station, park my car and enjoy the trip at my ease? Another complaint is that once you get there, there are virtually no other commuter services to get you around the place like there are in "real" metropolitan centers. For example, I could take this thing to Anaheim for $15 one way. But once I get there, I have no real way of getting to either Disneyland or the stadiums. So what's the actual point?

It is easy to get the public transportation competitive by subsidizing it with the taxpayer's money. This way, all have to pay for the convinience of a few.
If you don't, you'll never see the European sceduels, with one bus every few minutes and money to build countless subways, trams etc.

I like the idea though, of having a special line for busses and special toll lines to avoid the traffic. I sat in a traffic jam several times while other cars were passing by at ease on the toll lane.

I like toll roads. Financing the streets through those who actually use them is awesome!

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13233
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:22:35 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Nicely said, Leo.

What's surprising to me is how *low* the rate of gun-related homicide is in the US. For a country awash in guns (almost one gun per capita here), we've a low-moderate *rate* associated with it. Access has never been equal to use here, something that is a confounder for many, but does trace itself back to our 'citizen militia' roots.

What I don't like about those statistics is, that they always ignore all those countless cases where guns protected someone. I think I've read about 5.000 or 6.000 cases of use of firearms for self-protection each day in the us.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13234
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:23:00 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America
... and over 700 of those miles were on Interstate 95....

And some of them were maybe on I-85 down to Montgomery and then I-65 down to the fetid swamps of South Alabama.

Hi, ya Mikey. Been 5 months since I was banned for 3 and they still can't get their poop together. Don't care squat about the JWE account, since I have no intention of talking to the forum. So Symon seems good for here. Besides, SuluSea (Eddie) needs a righteous Caribbean buddy to hang with.

Had a ball with Torsten. I was being an honest host and taking him to where he could get some decent Bavarian beer (Alabama is one of the last little pissy Baptist States, where all booze comes from the annaly constricted wisdom of the Alcohol Beverage Commission, i.e., you can't get Jack that's any good). But luckily, I'm only a half hour from Florida so I can get whatever I want with a teensy bit of effort. Thank God for Interstate highways.

So Torsten starts pulling out these cigars, from the humidor. A lot of them I couldn't smoke, because he had a bunch that he had to try and make pronunciamento on. But he gave me some righteous mild ones (saved the wrappers for tomorrow) that were honest to gosh toothsome. Sweet and Slow and didn't bite and tasted like sweet earth with a hint of leather. Torsten was teaching me a lot about cigar 'tastes', Some of them I could get, but others are for cigars I don't smoke. I'm a light-it, chew-it, talk with my mouth full of it kinda guy. It was a real treat to smoke a cigar with an honest afficianado.

Alright, so I still owe you a dinner on last years Army/Navy game. I pay my debts, so don't be surprised if your half-Yankee ass gets a visit I-85 to Charlotte and then... Not far pal.

So I know NC ain't doing doo-doo in the SEC or BCS, so I won't go there. When I was in college, it was up North and the Bruins were kings. That ws back in the days of Sanderson, Esposito, Bucyk, Cashman, Cheevers, Orr, Doak and Hodge. Then my ex-wife of 22 years was from Detroit and if I wasn't a RedWings fan, I was seriously toast ( I mean, like don't touch me, and roll over), Woof.

So, sup bro? s'happin'in?

JWE

John, thanks for the great time. Glad I could give you something back with the cigars I gave you.

It was an honor finally meeting you!

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 13235
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:30:35 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
Look at those numbers:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx

If I were to become a criminal in the US, I might become a pick-pocketer, start a pyramid sceme or betray people by collecting advance payment for something I'm never going to deliver.
But I defenitly wouldn't start breaking into houses, when in roughly 50% of all households is a gun...

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13236
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:55:03 PM   
USS America


Posts: 16267
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America
... and over 700 of those miles were on Interstate 95....

And some of them were maybe on I-85 down to Montgomery and then I-65 down to the fetid swamps of South Alabama.

Hi, ya Mikey. Been 5 months since I was banned for 3 and they still can't get their poop together. Don't care squat about the JWE account, since I have no intention of talking to the forum. So Symon seems good for here. Besides, SuluSea (Eddie) needs a righteous Caribbean buddy to hang with.

Had a ball with Torsten. I was being an honest host and taking him to where he could get some decent Bavarian beer (Alabama is one of the last little pissy Baptist States, where all booze comes from the annaly constricted wisdom of the Alcohol Beverage Commission, i.e., you can't get Jack that's any good). But luckily, I'm only a half hour from Florida so I can get whatever I want with a teensy bit of effort. Thank God for Interstate highways.

So Torsten starts pulling out these cigars, from the humidor. A lot of them I couldn't smoke, because he had a bunch that he had to try and make pronunciamento on. But he gave me some righteous mild ones (saved the wrappers for tomorrow) that were honest to gosh toothsome. Sweet and Slow and didn't bite and tasted like sweet earth with a hint of leather. Torsten was teaching me a lot about cigar 'tastes', Some of them I could get, but others are for cigars I don't smoke. I'm a light-it, chew-it, talk with my mouth full of it kinda guy. It was a real treat to smoke a cigar with an honest afficianado.

Alright, so I still owe you a dinner on last years Army/Navy game. I pay my debts, so don't be surprised if your half-Yankee ass gets a visit I-85 to Charlotte and then... Not far pal.

So I know NC ain't doing doo-doo in the SEC or BCS, so I won't go there. When I was in college, it was up North and the Bruins were kings. That ws back in the days of Sanderson, Esposito, Bucyk, Cashman, Cheevers, Orr, Doak and Hodge. Then my ex-wife of 22 years was from Detroit and if I wasn't a RedWings fan, I was seriously toast ( I mean, like don't touch me, and roll over), Woof.

So, sup bro? s'happin'in?

JWE


Welcome back, Brother John!

Shouldn't your username be spelled "Sy'mon"?

Glad to hear of the your great visit with our German tourist. It's been a fantastic time having him here with us and sharing Thanksgiving with him. For his next visit, we will have to talk him into staying for a longer time.

It will be a pleasure to collect on our wager! Our door is always open, and after Monday, the guest room is available!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 13237
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:55:38 PM   
USS America


Posts: 16267
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Look at those numbers:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx

If I were to become a criminal in the US, I might become a pick-pocketer, start a pyramid sceme or betray people by collecting advance payment for something I'm never going to deliver.
But I defenitly wouldn't start breaking into houses, when in roughly 50% of all households is a gun...


What a timely forum topic after our discussion this afternoon!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 13238
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 12:50:51 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Nicely said, Leo.

What's surprising to me is how *low* the rate of gun-related homicide is in the US. For a country awash in guns (almost one gun per capita here), we've a low-moderate *rate* associated with it. Access has never been equal to use here, something that is a confounder for many, but does trace itself back to our 'citizen militia' roots.


I think this is one of the few issues I agree with Andre on.

One thing that I dont think has been said yet is that I recall hearing somewhere that the overwhelming majority of gun-related incidents involved household members or friends/acquaintances.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13239
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:11:05 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18489
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
One thing that I dont think has been said yet is that I recall hearing somewhere that the overwhelming majority of gun-related incidents involved household members or friends/acquaintances.


Well, that's kind of a no-brainer. The overwhelming majority of homicides of all ilk (not just guns), domestic violence of all sorts and other similar incidents involve family or 'friends / acquaintances'.

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13240
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:11:31 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker
It is easy to get the public transportation competitive by subsidizing it with the taxpayer's money. This way, all have to pay for the convinience of a few.


Well, duh! Its not very likely that the commuters themselves would be able to foot the entire bill. Besides that, the idea is to expand the commuter transport network to such levels that car commuters willingly switch to public transit, thus reducing both traffic levels and emissions. Unfortunately, I think the LA public transit system is still very, very far from that.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 13241
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:17:51 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Nicely said, Leo.

What's surprising to me is how *low* the rate of gun-related homicide is in the US. For a country awash in guns (almost one gun per capita here), we've a low-moderate *rate* associated with it. Access has never been equal to use here, something that is a confounder for many, but does trace itself back to our 'citizen militia' roots.

What I don't like about those statistics is, that they always ignore all those countless cases where guns protected someone. I think I've read about 5.000 or 6.000 cases of use of firearms for self-protection each day in the us.


Oh, bullsh!t, sir! Ive heard of those cases too and I highly doubt that they are as usual as you seem to think. Of course there have been cases where some lowlife had broken into a home and found himself looking down the barrel of a gun. I have no doubt of that. On the flip side of that equation, however, is the reality that when facing a situation of that sort, most people would hide or not resist if faced with an unknown number of possibly armed intruders rather than get into a shootout in their own house and risk harm to themselves and their family.

What is much, much more usual are cases of people who are either too drunk or too stupid to follow simple safety instructions who blow away themselves, their buddies or, very sadly, their children in accidental discharges. There was one such case in LI right before we left where the unfortunate nincompoop was a 10 year veteran of the NYPD and the victim was his 4 year old daughter.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 13242
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:18:45 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18489
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker
It is easy to get the public transportation competitive by subsidizing it with the taxpayer's money. This way, all have to pay for the convinience of a few.


Well, duh! Its not very likely that the commuters themselves would be able to foot the entire bill. Besides that, the idea is to expand the commuter transport network to such levels that car commuters willingly switch to public transit, thus reducing both traffic levels and emissions. Unfortunately, I think the LA public transit system is still very, very far from that.


Billing everyone for the benefit of a select few is a slippery slope, comrade. The balance is to make public the debt for which there is a significant uniform benefit to those charged with the debt.

So, making the state responsible for LA public transit is a gross injustice to those Californians living in Fresno. If there's an overwhelming reason that this *must* be done, then maybe you could sell it to the state's voters. Too often though-far, far too often, the taxpayer is given a bill for something for a benefit they will never receive.

If the Los Angeleans want to gild their highway with Los Angeles tax dollars, they can go to it. But drawing in / mandating the support of the state or Feds for a decidedly local project is a problem. The fact that SoCal cannot afford to develop most of the public works / public improvements projects without significant outside aid speaks to the profligate nature of the SoCal / California governance.

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13243
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:20:19 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
One thing that I dont think has been said yet is that I recall hearing somewhere that the overwhelming majority of gun-related incidents involved household members or friends/acquaintances.


Well, that's kind of a no-brainer. The overwhelming majority of homicides of all ilk (not just guns), domestic violence of all sorts and other similar incidents involve family or 'friends / acquaintances'.


I'm just trying to get across to our European brothers that this isnt the wild west with showdowns at high noon every bloody day.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13244
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:21:09 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18489
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
One thing that I dont think has been said yet is that I recall hearing somewhere that the overwhelming majority of gun-related incidents involved household members or friends/acquaintances.


Well, that's kind of a no-brainer. The overwhelming majority of homicides of all ilk (not just guns), domestic violence of all sorts and other similar incidents involve family or 'friends / acquaintances'.


I'm just trying to get across to our European brothers that this isnt the wild west with showdowns at high noon every bloody day.


Of course not, dumbass. We do most of our shootin' at night, during our drug deals.

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13245
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:22:53 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker
It is easy to get the public transportation competitive by subsidizing it with the taxpayer's money. This way, all have to pay for the convinience of a few.


Well, duh! Its not very likely that the commuters themselves would be able to foot the entire bill. Besides that, the idea is to expand the commuter transport network to such levels that car commuters willingly switch to public transit, thus reducing both traffic levels and emissions. Unfortunately, I think the LA public transit system is still very, very far from that.


Billing everyone for the benefit of a select few is a slippery slope, comrade. The balance is to make public the debt for which there is a significant uniform benefit to those charged with the debt.

So, making the state responsible for LA public transit is a gross injustice to those Californians living in Fresno. If there's an overwhelming reason that this *must* be done, then maybe you could sell it to the state's voters. Too often though-far, far too often, the taxpayer is given a bill for something for a benefit they will never receive.

If the Los Angeleans want to gild their highway with Los Angeles tax dollars, they can go to it. But drawing in / mandating the support of the state or Feds for a decidedly local project is a problem. The fact that SoCal cannot afford to develop most of the public works / public improvements projects without significant outside aid speaks to the profligate nature of the SoCal / California governance.


Not going to able to argue that because I simply dont know enough about the funding process here, but I do agree that LA County commuter rail should be paid for by LA county taxes together with federal subsidies. Highways, on the other hand, should be paid for at the state level, again with federal assistance.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13246
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:25:05 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18489
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
I'm having trouble rationalizing Federal assistance / subsidies for Los Angeles train systems. Then again, I'm a Federalist. I *might* agree to subsidize a rail spur for Los Angelinos if the terminus ends in a 30' drop into the Pacific though...

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13247
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:31:04 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
One thing that I dont think has been said yet is that I recall hearing somewhere that the overwhelming majority of gun-related incidents involved household members or friends/acquaintances.


Well, that's kind of a no-brainer. The overwhelming majority of homicides of all ilk (not just guns), domestic violence of all sorts and other similar incidents involve family or 'friends / acquaintances'.


I'm just trying to get across to our European brothers that this isnt the wild west with showdowns at high noon every bloody day.


Of course not, dumbass. We do most of our shootin' at night, during our drug deals.


Yeah, I heard that thats how Pali rolls.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13248
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:33:27 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'm having trouble rationalizing Federal assistance / subsidies for Los Angeles train systems. Then again, I'm a Federalist. I *might* agree to subsidize a rail spur for Los Angelinos if the terminus ends in a 30' drop into the Pacific though...


Simple, its in the federal government's direct interest to revitalize and expand the public transit network all over the US. Not only will this have a direct impact on our national fossil fuels dependency, but it will also reduce the strain on the national highway system which is the direct responsibility of the federal government.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13249
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:36:26 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
Definitely one of the reasons I'm glad to be back in CA. This is just 5 minutes away from my house. WU and I had a lovely walk today.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13250
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:36:53 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18489
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'm having trouble rationalizing Federal assistance / subsidies for Los Angeles train systems. Then again, I'm a Federalist. I *might* agree to subsidize a rail spur for Los Angelinos if the terminus ends in a 30' drop into the Pacific though...



Simple, its in the federal government's direct interest to revitalize and expand the public transit network all over the US. Not only will this have a direct impact on our national fossil fuels dependency, but it will also reduce the strain on the national highway system which is the direct responsibility of the federal government.


Yes-INTERstate transit and transportation is very important for the Federal government to subsidize. Local stuff like LA (only) subway and the aforementioned high speed rail system? I don't think that presents the critical case.

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13251
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:38:05 AM   
USS America


Posts: 16267
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


Billing everyone for the benefit of a select few is a slippery slope, comrade. The balance is to make public the debt for which there is a significant uniform benefit to those charged with the debt.

So, making the state responsible for LA public transit is a gross injustice to those Californians living in Fresno. If there's an overwhelming reason that this *must* be done, then maybe you could sell it to the state's voters. Too often though-far, far too often, the taxpayer is given a bill for something for a benefit they will never receive.

If the Los Angeleans want to gild their highway with Los Angeles tax dollars, they can go to it. But drawing in / mandating the support of the state or Feds for a decidedly local project is a problem. The fact that SoCal cannot afford to develop most of the public works / public improvements projects without significant outside aid speaks to the profligate nature of the SoCal / California governance.


Not going to able to argue that because I simply dont know enough about the funding process here, but I do agree that LA County commuter rail should be paid for by LA county taxes together with federal subsidies.


Wait a minute!!! Why do I have to help pay for the LA county commuter rail???


_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13252
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:38:17 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18489
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Definitely one of the reasons I'm glad to be back in CA. This is just 5 minutes away from my house. WU and I had a lovely walk today.





Something's wrong with those hillsides, chamo. I can't...quite...put...OH YEAH! I know now! They're not aflame!

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13253
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:40:05 AM   
Grollub


Posts: 6577
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
Good night friends

_____________________________

“Pay attention to where you are going because without meaning you might get nowhere.”

-- Winnie the Pooh

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13254
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:40:14 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker
It is easy to get the public transportation competitive by subsidizing it with the taxpayer's money. This way, all have to pay for the convinience of a few.


Well, duh! Its not very likely that the commuters themselves would be able to foot the entire bill. Besides that, the idea is to expand the commuter transport network to such levels that car commuters willingly switch to public transit, thus reducing both traffic levels and emissions. Unfortunately, I think the LA public transit system is still very, very far from that.

Well, you can take money and create a market that wasn't there. This way, you destroy other markets with the money of all. You know how I think about that...

I am thinking for quite a while to buy a free space in my home city and turn it into a parking lot. This is only worth considering, because people commute by car and need cars.

So wehn you take tax money to fund a public transportation, you'll hurt other parts of the economy quite a lot. Gas stations will have less revenue, car dealers will sell less cars, parking lot owners won't be able to sell the places to commuters, garages would have less to repair - and so on.
So by taking your and my money to artificially create the demand - that obviously doesn't exist right now - for a public transportation, you destroy businesses and jobs.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13255
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:40:39 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'm having trouble rationalizing Federal assistance / subsidies for Los Angeles train systems. Then again, I'm a Federalist. I *might* agree to subsidize a rail spur for Los Angelinos if the terminus ends in a 30' drop into the Pacific though...



Simple, its in the federal government's direct interest to revitalize and expand the public transit network all over the US. Not only will this have a direct impact on our national fossil fuels dependency, but it will also reduce the strain on the national highway system which is the direct responsibility of the federal government.


Yes-INTERstate transit and transportation is very important for the Federal government to subsidize. Local stuff like LA (only) subway and the aforementioned high speed rail system? I don't think that presents the critical case.


So you dont see the connection between trucks hauling stuff from TX to CA getting stuck in gridlock around San Bernardino onward and the reduction of traffic load on LA area roads by a thorough, well-planned and constructed commuter transit system?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13256
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:41:42 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


Billing everyone for the benefit of a select few is a slippery slope, comrade. The balance is to make public the debt for which there is a significant uniform benefit to those charged with the debt.

So, making the state responsible for LA public transit is a gross injustice to those Californians living in Fresno. If there's an overwhelming reason that this *must* be done, then maybe you could sell it to the state's voters. Too often though-far, far too often, the taxpayer is given a bill for something for a benefit they will never receive.

If the Los Angeleans want to gild their highway with Los Angeles tax dollars, they can go to it. But drawing in / mandating the support of the state or Feds for a decidedly local project is a problem. The fact that SoCal cannot afford to develop most of the public works / public improvements projects without significant outside aid speaks to the profligate nature of the SoCal / California governance.


Not going to able to argue that because I simply dont know enough about the funding process here, but I do agree that LA County commuter rail should be paid for by LA county taxes together with federal subsidies.


Wait a minute!!! Why do I have to help pay for the LA county commuter rail???



You'll find your answer according to Onime 3 posts above this one.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 13257
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:43:01 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Definitely one of the reasons I'm glad to be back in CA. This is just 5 minutes away from my house. WU and I had a lovely walk today.





Something's wrong with those hillsides, chamo. I can't...quite...put...OH YEAH! I know now! They're not aflame!


Youre not kidding. We saw a lot of charred stuff as we were walking. Not sure how old it was but there has definitely been some fire activity in this area within the last 5 years or so.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13258
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:48:09 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16635
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker
It is easy to get the public transportation competitive by subsidizing it with the taxpayer's money. This way, all have to pay for the convinience of a few.


Well, duh! Its not very likely that the commuters themselves would be able to foot the entire bill. Besides that, the idea is to expand the commuter transport network to such levels that car commuters willingly switch to public transit, thus reducing both traffic levels and emissions. Unfortunately, I think the LA public transit system is still very, very far from that.

Well, you can take money and create a market that wasn't there. This way, you destroy other markets with the money of all. You know how I think about that...

I am thinking for quite a while to buy a free space in my home city and turn it into a parking lot. This is only worth considering, because people commute by car and need cars.

So wehn you take tax money to fund a public transportation, you'll hurt other parts of the economy quite a lot. Gas stations will have less revenue, car dealers will sell less cars, parking lot owners won't be able to sell the places to commuters, garages would have less to repair - and so on.
So by taking your and my money to artificially create the demand - that obviously doesn't exist right now - for a public transportation, you destroy businesses and jobs.


Oh you.....ok, not only will no private enterprise be able to afford a project of this scale without the involvement of state and federal governments but urban planning is the business of government-level involvement. You can contract private firms all day to do the dirty work but the ultimate responsibility lies with elected officials. If you then want to sublet individual aspects of operation, like maintenance or trash removal to private companies, thats worthy of consideration, but again, the ultimate responsibility lies with local, state and federal elected officials.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 13259
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/25/2012 1:48:45 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker
It is easy to get the public transportation competitive by subsidizing it with the taxpayer's money. This way, all have to pay for the convinience of a few.


Well, duh! Its not very likely that the commuters themselves would be able to foot the entire bill. Besides that, the idea is to expand the commuter transport network to such levels that car commuters willingly switch to public transit, thus reducing both traffic levels and emissions. Unfortunately, I think the LA public transit system is still very, very far from that.


Billing everyone for the benefit of a select few is a slippery slope, comrade. The balance is to make public the debt for which there is a significant uniform benefit to those charged with the debt.

So, making the state responsible for LA public transit is a gross injustice to those Californians living in Fresno. If there's an overwhelming reason that this *must* be done, then maybe you could sell it to the state's voters. Too often though-far, far too often, the taxpayer is given a bill for something for a benefit they will never receive.

If the Los Angeleans want to gild their highway with Los Angeles tax dollars, they can go to it. But drawing in / mandating the support of the state or Feds for a decidedly local project is a problem. The fact that SoCal cannot afford to develop most of the public works / public improvements projects without significant outside aid speaks to the profligate nature of the SoCal / California governance.

hear! hear!

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13260
Page:   <<   < prev  440 441 [442] 443 444   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> RE: THE THREAD!!! Page: <<   < prev  440 441 [442] 443 444   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.293