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RE: THE THREAD!!!

 
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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 6:49:19 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17996
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

And I have to return to wintery Germany in a few days


Already?

The plane leaves 12/5




I know your time here has not yet ended, but how would you rate your experience, Herr Historiker? Still looking to emigrate Deutschland?

_____________________________


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Post #: 13201
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 6:53:01 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17996
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
I have no idea what justifies these rail prices in San Fernando Valley, CA when in order to get to Camarillo by car all I have to do is hop on the 118 freeway for 40 minutes. There is never any traffic, the scenery is very much enjoyable, the roads are in perfect condition and there are oodles of parking everywhere. I just dont understand it.


Bozo urban planners that think that the Los Angeles basin should emulate the Eastern US / Metro London / Paris in all ways? People that forget that that area was a cropland 50 years ago and won't ever be an urban hub justifying mass transit? People that vote for a 90 billion dollar high speed rail system with its first station in rural central California?

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13202
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 6:54:08 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17996
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Looking for hiking trails near my house, get this.....







Yeah. One of my buddies in SoCal backed up to the Santa Monica mountains. Delapidated former Nike missile site behind his house too. Never could find the trigger system.

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13203
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 6:55:21 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17996
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online
Heyyy...a Deutschland emigration UNP...

_____________________________


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13204
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 7:23:11 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
I have no idea what justifies these rail prices in San Fernando Valley, CA when in order to get to Camarillo by car all I have to do is hop on the 118 freeway for 40 minutes. There is never any traffic, the scenery is very much enjoyable, the roads are in perfect condition and there are oodles of parking everywhere. I just dont understand it.


Bozo urban planners that think that the Los Angeles basin should emulate the Eastern US / Metro London / Paris in all ways? People that forget that that area was a cropland 50 years ago and won't ever be an urban hub justifying mass transit? People that vote for a 90 billion dollar high speed rail system with its first station in rural central California?


Well, I dont think that these efforts are entirely baseless. For example, there is a relatively new commuter express bus that runs from North Hollywood to Chatsworth and Woodland Hills that seems like an awesome idea. They took the old, disused land that used to belong to a local rail line which runs parallel to Oxnard Ave./Victory Blvd and built a dedicated bus lane, with synchronized lights. At rush hour these busses basically skip every stoplight. A buddy of mine who lives in Hollywood and works here in Chatsworth takes it to work every day. The ride takes about an hour and costs only a couple of bucks for a one-way trip. This in comparison to a similar or greater time spent in traffic on the 101/405/118 and probably double the cost in gas without even figuring in the wear and tear on the vehicle. That idea I can absolutely get behind.

They also put in parking lots at every station where people can park their cars before hopping on the mass transit and even a biking/jogging track that runs from almost North Hollywood to Woodland Hills. I dont know when you were here last, Andre, but from my recollection of 10 years ago when I moved to NY the traffic in the LA area has gotten much worse! It used to be that the only places you could really count on hitting traffic was the 405 around the Getty Museum/Mulholland Pass area and Downtown. Now pretty much any time I've gotten on the 101 its been a parking lot. These commuter buses and subways make perfect sense in the urban areas. But Chatsworth is pretty much the suburban boonies and the Metrolink line doesnt even go to the city.

My real complaint is the prices. If these trains cost $2-$5, you bet your chicken farm that people would be using them more often. Why would I drive 40 minutes and spend $10-12 bucks in gas if I could drive to the train station, park my car and enjoy the trip at my ease? Another complaint is that once you get there, there are virtually no other commuter services to get you around the place like there are in "real" metropolitan centers. For example, I could take this thing to Anaheim for $15 one way. But once I get there, I have no real way of getting to either Disneyland or the stadiums. So what's the actual point?

< Message edited by Onime No Kyo -- 11/24/2012 7:29:47 PM >


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Post #: 13205
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 7:24:10 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Looking for hiking trails near my house, get this.....







Yeah. One of my buddies in SoCal backed up to the Santa Monica mountains. Delapidated former Nike missile site behind his house too. Never could find the trigger system.


I dont know why, but when I saw this my first thought was "Fallout 4".

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

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Post #: 13206
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 7:24:31 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16628
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Heyyy...a Deutschland emigration UNP...


My fault entirely. You never should have had that one.

_____________________________

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Post #: 13207
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 7:48:47 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10177
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

No turns and cold weather make Dixie a sad boy


No pity for you here.

Procrastination gets its just deserts.


I'll have you know that negotiations are ongoing at the highest levels of the Japanese military hierarchy as to the best options available to prosecute the upcoming hostilities.

Seeing as T is not here, I feel duty bound to ask whether procrastination should get its just desserts?...

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13208
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 8:03:15 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6544
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

How is weather in Sweden per?

Winter arrived?


Leo "Apollo11"

Not even close. So far very warm for the season. Normally, we should've seen some snow come and go by now. Not a snowflake in sight yet though.




Any sign of Oland replacing Majorca as Europe's resort destination?

No.

_____________________________

“Pay attention to where you are going because without meaning you might get nowhere.”

-- Winnie the Pooh

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13209
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 8:03:24 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6544
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Gentlemen: I have an announcement. The latest member of the Chickenboy household has been brought home today. I give you little "Sig":







Hmm. Looks like a nice little toy. Have to get a weapons license sometime. Nice relaxation.


You're not allowed to own weapons, Per?

As a private person, no. No big deal though. I've never felt the need for owning a gun. Looking at all my colleagues and friends I only know one guy that owns some guns and he's competing with them.

Note one; Hunting weapons are quite widespread though as many of the citizens can get access to hunting areas.

Note two; I still have the weapons I'm assigned as an officer, but those are stored at a regiment.

_____________________________

“Pay attention to where you are going because without meaning you might get nowhere.”

-- Winnie the Pooh

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13210
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 8:03:31 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6544
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

You're not allowed to own weapons, Per?


Generally speaking European gun laws (i.e. dealing with ownership of firearm weapons( ) and much much much tougher than in the USA...


Leo "Apollo11"


But Per is active military.

So?

They think about forcing german sportsmen to store their guns at the shooting range. So they can buy a gun, but never own it.

Hunters might face the same thing.



Seems more than a little silly. One of the things I've never objected to in the US is gun ownership. My feeling is that people with a criminal intent who are looking to obtain weapons, will generally be able to obtain them despite laws. Certainly its true that unrestricted sale of ammunition which comes with gun ownership laws also aids those with criminal intent, but I also feel that lack of ammo availability would not serve as a significant-enough deterrent to these people. Somehow, I doubt that gang members, bank robbers etc. spend hundreds of hours and thousands of rounds honing their marksmanship skills.


What makes you think that ammo is any easier to come by? You have to own a weapon to be allowed to buy ammo ...

Also, I think the the relative crime rates (especially concerning the more serious ones like homicide) speaks for itself.


_____________________________

“Pay attention to where you are going because without meaning you might get nowhere.”

-- Winnie the Pooh

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13211
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 8:18:20 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8162
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Nottingham, UK
Status: offline
quote:

negotiations are ongoing at the highest levels of the Japanese military hierarchy as to the best options available to prosecute the upcoming hostilities.


More cunning that a fox that's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Dixie)
Post #: 13212
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 8:20:12 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8162
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Nottingham, UK
Status: offline
quote:

I still have the weapons I'm assigned as an officer, but those are stored at a regiment.


Yeah, they made me leave the missiles on the submarine too.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 13213
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 8:26:40 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6544
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

I still have the weapons I'm assigned as an officer, but those are stored at a regiment.


Yeah, they made me leave the missiles on the submarine too.



_____________________________

“Pay attention to where you are going because without meaning you might get nowhere.”

-- Winnie the Pooh

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 13214
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 8:37:47 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1393
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America
... and over 700 of those miles were on Interstate 95....

And some of them were maybe on I-85 down to Montgomery and then I-65 down to the fetid swamps of South Alabama.

Hi, ya Mikey. Been 5 months since I was banned for 3 and they still can't get their poop together. Don't care squat about the JWE account, since I have no intention of talking to the forum. So Symon seems good for here. Besides, SuluSea (Eddie) needs a righteous Caribbean buddy to hang with.

Had a ball with Torsten. I was being an honest host and taking him to where he could get some decent Bavarian beer (Alabama is one of the last little pissy Baptist States, where all booze comes from the annaly constricted wisdom of the Alcohol Beverage Commission, i.e., you can't get Jack that's any good). But luckily, I'm only a half hour from Florida so I can get whatever I want with a teensy bit of effort. Thank God for Interstate highways.

So Torsten starts pulling out these cigars, from the humidor. A lot of them I couldn't smoke, because he had a bunch that he had to try and make pronunciamento on. But he gave me some righteous mild ones (saved the wrappers for tomorrow) that were honest to gosh toothsome. Sweet and Slow and didn't bite and tasted like sweet earth with a hint of leather. Torsten was teaching me a lot about cigar 'tastes', Some of them I could get, but others are for cigars I don't smoke. I'm a light-it, chew-it, talk with my mouth full of it kinda guy. It was a real treat to smoke a cigar with an honest afficianado.

Alright, so I still owe you a dinner on last years Army/Navy game. I pay my debts, so don't be surprised if your half-Yankee ass gets a visit I-85 to Charlotte and then... Not far pal.

So I know NC ain't doing doo-doo in the SEC or BCS, so I won't go there. When I was in college, it was up North and the Bruins were kings. That ws back in the days of Sanderson, Esposito, Bucyk, Cashman, Cheevers, Orr, Doak and Hodge. Then my ex-wife of 22 years was from Detroit and if I wasn't a RedWings fan, I was seriously toast ( I mean, like don't touch me, and roll over), Woof.

So, sup bro? s'happin'in?

JWE

(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 13215
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:08:28 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17996
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
I have no idea what justifies these rail prices in San Fernando Valley, CA when in order to get to Camarillo by car all I have to do is hop on the 118 freeway for 40 minutes. There is never any traffic, the scenery is very much enjoyable, the roads are in perfect condition and there are oodles of parking everywhere. I just dont understand it.


Bozo urban planners that think that the Los Angeles basin should emulate the Eastern US / Metro London / Paris in all ways? People that forget that that area was a cropland 50 years ago and won't ever be an urban hub justifying mass transit? People that vote for a 90 billion dollar high speed rail system with its first station in rural central California?


Well, I dont think that these efforts are entirely baseless. For example, there is a relatively new commuter express bus that runs from North Hollywood to Chatsworth and Woodland Hills that seems like an awesome idea. They took the old, disused land that used to belong to a local rail line which runs parallel to Oxnard Ave./Victory Blvd and built a dedicated bus lane, with synchronized lights. At rush hour these busses basically skip every stoplight. A buddy of mine who lives in Hollywood and works here in Chatsworth takes it to work every day. The ride takes about an hour and costs only a couple of bucks for a one-way trip. This in comparison to a similar or greater time spent in traffic on the 101/405/118 and probably double the cost in gas without even figuring in the wear and tear on the vehicle. That idea I can absolutely get behind.

They also put in parking lots at every station where people can park their cars before hopping on the mass transit and even a biking/jogging track that runs from almost North Hollywood to Woodland Hills. I dont know when you were here last, Andre, but from my recollection of 10 years ago when I moved to NY the traffic in the LA area has gotten much worse! It used to be that the only places you could really count on hitting traffic was the 405 around the Getty Museum/Mulholland Pass area and Downtown. Now pretty much any time I've gotten on the 101 its been a parking lot. These commuter buses and subways make perfect sense in the urban areas. But Chatsworth is pretty much the suburban boonies and the Metrolink line doesnt even go to the city.

My real complaint is the prices. If these trains cost $2-$5, you bet your chicken farm that people would be using them more often. Why would I drive 40 minutes and spend $10-12 bucks in gas if I could drive to the train station, park my car and enjoy the trip at my ease? Another complaint is that once you get there, there are virtually no other commuter services to get you around the place like there are in "real" metropolitan centers. For example, I could take this thing to Anaheim for $15 one way. But once I get there, I have no real way of getting to either Disneyland or the stadiums. So what's the actual point?


Bus lines I've got no beef with. Enhanced, uber-efficient bus lines make sense for a metropolis sprawl like LA. Subway? High speed rail? Not so much. It's a misapplication of the effort.

Also, with the absurd legal fees, land use fees, construction fees, taxes and what not, it should not be any surprise that building a meaningful subway or high speed rail costs an arm and a leg. It's easy enough to amortize that expense based upon the numbers of people that could use the transport in a unit of time. So, when you have a very expensive train network that needs to be paid by the users over 20-30 years, you get a very expensive train ticket.

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 13216
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:10:10 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22581
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

Also, I think the the relative crime rates (especially concerning the more serious ones like homicide) speaks for itself.


Yep... this is the main reason most European countries have the laws they have regarding gun ownership... the relative crime rates (especially concerning the more serious ones like homicide) are in magnitude of 10-100x less here in Europe...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 13217
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:13:02 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17996
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
the relative crime rates (especially concerning the more serious ones like homicide) are in magnitude of 10-100x less here in Europe...



I know this is commonly believed by most Europeans, but do you have a source that cites a per capita homicide rate of 1/100th that of the United States in Europe? If so, I've never seen it.

_____________________________


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 13218
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:17:12 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17996
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online
Interesting (and sad) graph:

ETA: Looks like some of the Eastern European countries have a roughly comparable per capita homicide rate of that of the US. Get a load of some of the Central African, Central American and Carribean / South American countries.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 11/24/2012 9:19:34 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13219
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:20:32 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22581
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
the relative crime rates (especially concerning the more serious ones like homicide) are in magnitude of 10-100x less here in Europe...



I know this is commonly believed by most Europeans, but do you have a source that cites a per capita homicide rate of 1/100th that of the United States in Europe? If so, I've never seen it.


You can look at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_rate


Generally speaking the statistics for USA are not that bad (because of large number of inhabitants) and they show about 4-5x more than Europe (for murders) but the sheer number is still staggering... and if you add other serious crimes the numbers get even worse... unfortunately this is how things are...

For example in Per's Sweden there were 91 murders - in USA there were 12,996 - the USA is much bigger than Sweden but still...



Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13220
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:23:44 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13938
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: online
Forget it....

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/24/2012 9:24:59 PM >


_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 13221
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:24:18 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6544
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
I guess Andres picture is coming from this place; http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

It shows that the homicide/murder rate for 2008 is nowhere in the vicinity of the "10x/100X" that you spoke of Leo, but still significantly higher.

_____________________________

“Pay attention to where you are going because without meaning you might get nowhere.”

-- Winnie the Pooh

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 13222
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:25:18 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6544
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
Oops, turn in! First one for 1,5 weeks as my opponent has been away on an exercise.

Laters.

_____________________________

“Pay attention to where you are going because without meaning you might get nowhere.”

-- Winnie the Pooh

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 13223
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:28:27 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13938
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: online
Lets try this again.

This is me when I have free time (right now) and no turn in the inbox:






Attachment (1)

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 13224
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:29:47 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22581
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

I guess Andres picture is coming from this place; http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

It shows that the homicide/murder rate for 2008 is nowhere in the vicinity of the "10x/100X" that you spoke of Leo, but still significantly higher.


True... true... but the USA is so big that statistics can be deceiving... if you look at USA as a whole the rate is 5x than Western Europe... but if you take a look at specific states in USA (that are essentially the size of European country) the rates can rise to 10-50x than in Western Europe...

Just look at the statistics for separate USA states in the WikiPedia link I gave above...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 13225
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:31:56 PM   
Admiral Mitscher


Posts: 122
Joined: 12/10/2011
Status: offline
I'm excitedly waiting for the 7th of December turn to come back, don't know why; as I'm the Allied player and I'm going to get pounded.

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 13226
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 9:55:51 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 17996
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Generally speaking the statistics for USA are not that bad (because of large number of inhabitants) and they show about 4-5x more than Europe (for murders) but the sheer number is still staggering... and if you add other serious crimes the numbers get even worse...

Leo "Apollo11"


Yes. Violent crime has-believe it or not-been going down substantially in the US over the last 15 years. It peaked statistically in the early to mid 1990s. Most categories of crime, particularly violent crime, have been going down since then.

You're right-it's still an issue when "rich" European countries are used as comparatives. However, it's also overblown by many (most?) Europeans too that think of the US as a veritable shooting gallery with cowboys and Al Capone's gangsters.

Lots of theories as to why that's happening (drop in violent crime since mid-1990s) -some interesting and some controversial. Very few of which relate to responsible (and legal) gun ownership.

Interesting point for discussion though: Even though our gun-related suicide rates are about 5x that of Europeans' (greater access to firearms as a means of suicide), overall European suicide rates are 30%+ greater than that of Americans or Canadians. Moldova's rate is 2.5x that of the United States. Croatia's is 30% greater. That's quite the curious epidemic.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 11/24/2012 9:58:32 PM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 13227
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 10:18:50 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22581
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

I think that we all fundamentally agree that guns in hands of responsible owners are not problem!

I also think that it is very important to understand that USA is new country where people were always free (and citizens have constitutional right to have weapons) - European countries are old and most of them have roots in ancient states. In those medieval days there was feudal system that forbid inhabitants to have weapons (in order to prevent revolts - of course).

This was more-or-less preserved to present day - in most European countries only police and military can be armed (and citizens usually must obtain permits that are not universally available)...


Leo "Apollo1"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 13228
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 10:27:39 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6544
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
Well said Leo.

_____________________________

“Pay attention to where you are going because without meaning you might get nowhere.”

-- Winnie the Pooh

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 13229
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/24/2012 11:13:01 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4738
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
the relative crime rates (especially concerning the more serious ones like homicide) are in magnitude of 10-100x less here in Europe...



I know this is commonly believed by most Europeans, but do you have a source that cites a per capita homicide rate of 1/100th that of the United States in Europe? If so, I've never seen it.

That's the european argument...

Gun ownership has barely anthing to do with criminal rates, except maybe letting them drop.
The reasons for the different murder rates are the societies. We buy freedom with our welfare state, not through the lack of guns. In Switzerland, almost every man owns a fully automatic assault rifle, owning pistols is fairly easy as well. But they have one of the lowest murder rates in the world.

On the other hand, you have Florida. After introducing consealed carry, the rates of severe crimes dropped between 45 and 65% depending on the crime - while the criminals started targeting tourists...

an entertaining video about that from Penn & Teller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XrNzE39J8E

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(in reply to Chickenboy)
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