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Partisan super hero bug.

 
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Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 8:49:06 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		This was starter thread just in wrong area.

quote:

carlkay58


quote:

In my current game, 1.05.38+ vs Axis AI at 110%, I have four or five partisan groups with 15+ victories already. I have never noticed that in previous versions and games.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2953995

bah bah another patch another game stopping bug?

Most games in 41 you get 0-3 tracks blown most of the time 0-1 in all my games. Patch in .40 and now we have 5-7 a turn. Someone turn the partisan crap up 4x like the 4x fort decay?

This is getting a little silly guys.

The last several patchs are bugged. Bugs that have a huge impact on game for both sides or one side or the other.

Its getting to the point of ok lets all stop playing for a few months until you guys can get your **** together?

New patch same old bah bah bah?

Pelton




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RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 8:56:01 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Last bug I totally screwed myself proving the bug basicly probably handing 1 game to my oppenent.

So this time someone esle screw them self over figuring it out.

Pelton

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 2
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 9:11:38 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6146
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

bah bah another patch another game stopping bug?


No. Just you whining...again.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Most games in 41 you get 0-3 tracks blown most of the time 0-1 in all my games. Patch in .40 and now we have 5-7 a turn. Someone turn the partisan crap up 4x like the 4x fort decay?

That's probably because so many of your opponents haven't figured out how to play the game yet. If you feed those partisans with night mission airdrops from your VVS bases, you can get a fair amount of partisan activity going on a regular basis. Especially if the cities are not well garrisoned, or there were a lot of shattered and encircled forces. If you don't feed them, they don't become active.

On some of my games, I've had 20-25 hexes per turn get damaged. A mere 5-7 per turn is child's play.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

This is getting a little silly guys.


Yes, you are getting a little silly, screaming "bug" every time there is something in the game that doesn't suit you, or that someone else is able to take the least advantage of over you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

The last several patchs are bugged. Bugs that have a huge impact on game for both sides or one side or the other.

Its getting to the point of ok lets all stop playing for a few months until you guys can get your **** together?

Or, you could stop playing. At least you could stop whining, and learn to evaluate what your opponents are doing to create the problems that you don't seem to be able to overcome without jumping up and down screaming "Bug!"

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 3
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 9:56:43 AM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4657
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		I am currently on T32, having played 12 turns under 1.05.40. I have had max. garrisons since T1 i.e. all "blue".

I have had precisely 1 rail attack and the first partisan unit became visible in T31. I was about to report a bug for partisans being gimped, until my opponent told me he forgot to set his VVS transports to night missions!!

One man's bug is another man's mistake. On the axis side I believe it is a mistake to have any city with less than a blue garrison, and to not have night fighters based in the Chernigov (sp?) area as this is a supply flight hot spot.

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Post #: 4
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 11:54:34 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 786
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		Over the last 5 turns in our game, the number of airdrops has been consistent, 14-16 per turn. Except for one turn which saw minimal growth, total partisan strength increased by about 900 men per turn. On turn 22, I have about 16k total in all partisan units.

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 11/19/2011 11:55:48 AM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 3:05:45 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Yes Jamian as always defend the bug before getting info as with the fort decay bug.

I provide solid data and you bitch bitch bitch before looking at data. Stop your ass kissing and check out data first.

Great info M60, thanks for data that supports what going on in all as in all my games as with the fort bug.

In my games vs TDV, Kamil, M60 partisans were attacking 0 to 1 time per turn and now its +6 per turn as soon as .4 hot fix fort decay patch was installed.

Mike just patched in .4 so we have no turns. TDV and Kamil are sever games so I can't go back only post the current turn.

M60 is best example of the issue.

Turn 18 attacks = 0
Turn 19 attacks = 0
Turn 20 attacks = 1
Patched
Turn 21 attacks = 7
Turn 22 attacks = 7

Kamils game which is on server has been 0 to 2 attacks per turn, but now its

Turn 88 attacks = 8

Nothing has changed city garrison, M60 flying in supplies ect just the patch is different same ect ect just like fort decay.

Jamiam the constant ass kissing simply prolongs issues like fort decay, 47 mm bug, partisan bug to name a few.

It might or might not be a bug but it sure looks like it, when its more then one person and more then one game.

Try being open minded and not dismissing stiff as soon as it is posted because your tring to stay on the staffs good side. if **** is screwed up it needs to be fixed asap and not let go under the radar as the 47mm bug did for months before it was found.

That bug alone screwed the game balance up for many patchs.

Anyways check out the pictures.

Turn 18




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RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 3:06:27 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 19




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Post #: 7
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 3:07:03 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 20




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Post #: 8
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 3:07:33 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 21




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Post #: 9
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 3:08:19 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		turn 22




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Post #: 10
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 3:08:58 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		turn 88




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Post #: 11
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 3:26:00 PM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4657
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Be careful what you wish for - checking back on my 1943 data the SU were making 50-60 supply drops and were averaging 20-30 rail attacks - with full garrisons. On T1 of the 1943 campaign when the garrisons are not in place, partisans made 80-90 attacks.

7 attacks is trivial. If anything something prior to 1.05.40 must have been reducing the number of attacks or your opponents have been like mine and not maximised supply drops and the partisan attack threshold has only now been reached

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 12
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 3:34:23 PM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4657
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		This would probably make your head explode.






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Post #: 13
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 4:46:28 PM   
johnnyvagas

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 3/28/2011
Status: offline 		Ouch! Unfortunately, I'm coming to the point where I'm feeling much more secure against the ravages of hidden Beta patch errors when I'm playing the Russians.

This isn’t the first partisan bug the game has experienced. By that, I assume the image posted above by BigAgrognard isn't an example of partisan rail attacks WAD. Hopefully (although my confidence is low) the designer's reaction will not be a massive tweak in the opposite direction whereby zero or extremely limited partisan activity occurs.

I have to ask why is their continued monkeying with the partisan settings? I haven’t really seen any in-depth knock down drag out discussions about the partisan game on this forum in a long time. The last in-depth discussion seemed have been the last time a big error in partisan activation criteria occurred in one of the 1.03 or 1.04 betas.

In addition, why didn’t we see that the partisan settings were manipulated within the list of changes for Beta 1.05.39 or 1.05.40?

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 14
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/19/2011 4:51:04 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 786
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		Just for comparison, I have two screenshots from turn 21 of two games that show relative strengths of partisan units. One was a game with glvaca and clearly in that one, my partisan units are not nearly as big. The current one with Pelton has a bigger overall force. I added P and PC next to some of the appropriate units since Partisan Cadres (PC) cannot attack rail hexes. I also verified that in some cases, although not all, when Pelton attacked the partisan unit, that it did revert to a cadre in the following turn.

glvaca game


pelton game

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 15
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/20/2011 1:41:31 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnyvagas

Ouch! Unfortunately, I'm coming to the point where I'm feeling much more secure against the ravages of hidden Beta patch errors when I'm playing the Russians.

This isn’t the first partisan bug the game has experienced. By that, I assume the image posted above by BigAgrognard isn't an example of partisan rail attacks WAD. Hopefully (although my confidence is low) the designer's reaction will not be a massive tweak in the opposite direction whereby zero or extremely limited partisan activity occurs.

I have to ask why is their continued monkeying with the partisan settings? I haven’t really seen any in-depth knock down drag out discussions about the partisan game on this forum in a long time. The last in-depth discussion seemed have been the last time a big error in partisan activation criteria occurred in one of the 1.03 or 1.04 betas.

In addition, why didn’t we see that the partisan settings were manipulated within the list of changes for Beta 1.05.39 or 1.05.40?



The last partisan "error" was back during 1.03 I beleive. Like fort decay nothing was manipulated during 1.05.39 or 1.05.40, it was an error.

Not sure how the fort decay error happened with the last patch (1.05.39) or how this error happened during the 1.05.40 patch.

Hopefully it will get taken care of as fast as the fort decay bug was.

Pelton

(in reply to johnnyvagas)
Post #: 16
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/20/2011 2:49:46 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 786
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online 		I'm not convinced there's anything wrong in this case. The fort bug was easy to see by virtue of the data which was clearly displayed turn-by-turn. The partisan activity in our game might just be attributed to the good # of active partisan units. In any case if they need to see a game file, I can make it available, but this may turn out to be nothing.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 17
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/20/2011 4:45:21 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18460
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		No changes in the partisans was made in 1.05.40. A few versions ago a bug was fixed so that partisans wouldn't attack outside of the active map area in a small map scenario. That shouldn't have had any impact. In 1.05.30 they were given the ability to attack adjacent to combat units, but that should have had little impact unless you had been used to garrisoning your main rail lines with lots of combat units.

7 partisan attacks is not a lot. In the 42 and 43 campaigns, the Soviets have around 27k partisans. Having 16k in late 41 sounds very reasonable. How quickly they become active is up to the Soviet player supplying them, and it sounds like this has been getting done in your game. I'll bring this up with Pavel (although he'll probably see this himself), but I'd bet that there's nothing at all unusual about this.

I know in the later war campaigns the first few turns can be full of tons of partisan attacks. A German player that spends some time fighting the partisans and garrisoning the cities can get control of things, but it can be a pain.

Back in May we made a change to reduce partisan attacks and at the time we felt we had it where we wanted it to be, and it hasn't changed since as far as I know.

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 11/20/2011 4:46:58 AM >

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 18
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/20/2011 11:36:15 AM   
johnnyvagas

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 3/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

No changes in the partisans was made in 1.05.40. A few versions ago a bug was fixed so that partisans wouldn't attack outside of the active map area in a small map scenario. That shouldn't have had any impact. In 1.05.30 they were given the ability to attack adjacent to combat units, but that should have had little impact unless you had been used to garrisoning your main rail lines with lots of combat units.

7 partisan attacks is not a lot. In the 42 and 43 campaigns, the Soviets have around 27k partisans. Having 16k in late 41 sounds very reasonable. How quickly they become active is up to the Soviet player supplying them, and it sounds like this has been getting done in your game. I'll bring this up with Pavel (although he'll probably see this himself), but I'd bet that there's nothing at all unusual about this.

I know in the later war campaigns the first few turns can be full of tons of partisan attacks. A German player that spends some time fighting the partisans and garrisoning the cities can get control of things, but it can be a pain.

Back in May we made a change to reduce partisan attacks and at the time we felt we had it where we wanted it to be, and it hasn't changed since as far as I know.


Thanks for the clarification. I was reacting to the image BigAnorak's posted more than anything, but after re-reading his post (several times) I think he must have posted an image from an earlier Beta version of the game.(?) Gasoline on a fire. However, in my defense I was a pretty P.O.'d about the effect the previous partisan bust had on a couple of games I was playing. I'm probably overly sensitive to this particular aspect of the game.

I've been fairly happy with the partisan rules and their effects playing as both Russkies and Germans since the last set of partisan rules were invoked. Which I think were the code changes put in after the cadre activation error from beta 1.03(?) was cleared up by Pavel. Although I'd add that I think 2by3 has missed a number of potential effects partisan warfare could bring to the game and focused solely upon railroad destruction for whatever reason. Intelligence gathering as well as destruction of supply trucks being just a couple things partisan cadres were doing -- in reality. But that's a different story and perhaps something for a future Drang Nach Osten.


(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 19
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/20/2011 1:48:18 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

No changes in the partisans was made in 1.05.40. A few versions ago a bug was fixed so that partisans wouldn't attack outside of the active map area in a small map scenario. That shouldn't have had any impact. In 1.05.30 they were given the ability to attack adjacent to combat units, but that should have had little impact unless you had been used to garrisoning your main rail lines with lots of combat units.

7 partisan attacks is not a lot. In the 42 and 43 campaigns, the Soviets have around 27k partisans. Having 16k in late 41 sounds very reasonable. How quickly they become active is up to the Soviet player supplying them, and it sounds like this has been getting done in your game. I'll bring this up with Pavel (although he'll probably see this himself), but I'd bet that there's nothing at all unusual about this.

I know in the later war campaigns the first few turns can be full of tons of partisan attacks. A German player that spends some time fighting the partisans and garrisoning the cities can get control of things, but it can be a pain.

Back in May we made a change to reduce partisan attacks and at the time we felt we had it where we wanted it to be, and it hasn't changed since as far as I know.


Thanks for checking into issue.

I have allot of games under my belt and during 41 I have yet to see more then a hex or 2 blown per turn. In my game vs Larry he had a huge partisan army and next to nothing got blown up during 41 or even early 42.

It just seems very odd that as soon as 1.05.4 was installed attacks jump from 0-1 to 7+ per turn in more then one game an during 41 for that matter. I can under stand 43, but mid to late 41 is very odd and I didn't see that during the time the bug was going around1.03 .

I feel confident that there is an issue all be it small based on 17 41-45 campiagns as German player.

It might be just bad luck, but bad luck in 4 games for several turns doesn't seem like luck at all. If it was lucky you would expect the number of attacks to change or bounce around some and not be steady or increasing over several turns in several games.

A very small change can snowball into a major issue 10 to 20 turns down the road and have a big impact on the on going games.

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 11/20/2011 1:52:27 PM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 20
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/21/2011 5:24:25 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1095
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Pelton,

There is no bug. Simply put: a quick perusal of your screenshots shows that you are not garrisoning your cities. Do you know the rules for garrisoning; how many men it takes to garrison and how to find out? Apparently not - it would behoove you to read to the manual which you have admitted has not been a priority item for you.

You have to choose: garrison and minimize the eventual partisan effect on your supply lines - or ignore garrisoning, and use all of your troops to advance - in which case you will pay a huge price later on. It seems that at least one of your Soviet opponents has read the ruke book on supplying the partisans which in conjunction with lack of garrisons is why your are screaming, "Bug" when in fact it is WAD.

Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving,

Marquo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 21
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/21/2011 5:34:49 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1095
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Your AARs are a textbook on how to allow the Russian Partisans to grow and swarm all over you; go back and look at them - I just rechecked the one you played against Flavisuix - Minsk, Zhitomir, everything is ungarrisoned and are hotbeds for breeding partisans. Frankly you are doomed in evey one of these games because there is no way for you to keep your armies in good supply; once your opponents realize this and place transport airunits and some level bombers in night mode in VVS airfields you are toast. Even if you break down 10 divisions into 30 regiments to hunt down partisans, after they attack, it will take several turns to repair the lines, but wait - this will happen every turn so you will always be trying to keep up with the partisans. You could learn how to garrison and this will slow down the glorious partisan tide somewhat.

Marquo

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Post #: 22
RE: Partisan super hero bug. - 11/22/2011 3:15:39 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
I have allot of games under my belt and during 41 I have yet to see more then a hex or 2 blown per turn. In my game vs Larry he had a huge partisan army and next to nothing got blown up during 41 or even early 42.

If your opponents are only getting 1-2 hexes per turn, then they don't know how to play the partisan war, it's that simple. The reason things don't get blown up much during 1941 and early 1942 is because they don't really get going until late 1941 and then they really slow down during the blizzard because it is harder to supply them in the blizzard.

So there's no bug, again...

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 23
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