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Unit icon reference chart - 11/17/2011 12:50:47 PM   
nenad


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I've posted the unit icon reference chart over at our blog. It's a breakdown of all of the unit types that are in the game. Check it out.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/19/2011 8:36:09 PM   
Kipper


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I'll hold off buying this until/if the NATO icons arrive. Those disembodied heads... what were they thinking?

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 9:50:44 AM   
nenad


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I know it's a rhetorical question but I'll try to address it nevertheless.

We were partially inspired by this:

It's a disembodied horse head that stands for "the knight" in one of the longest lived strategy games around . A design that proved itself by surviving several hundreds of years. So to directly answer your question - we were thinking: "if this representational system was good enough for these guys, it just may be good enough for us."

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 11:41:11 AM   
Noakesy

 

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 12:21:11 PM   
Kipper


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Well, leaving aside your snide and obvious reply, I will tell you why I personally won't be buying. Operational wargaming for me is about role-playing the role of commander. And I can't imagine an operational commander moving little heads around a map.

Comes from an old tradition of not having bits of toy soliders lying on a map. One that has done for hundreds of years. I was thinking : "if this representational system was good enough for these guys, it just may be good enough for me."




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kipper -- 11/20/2011 12:22:03 PM >

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 12:35:55 PM   
nenad


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Sure. That's why we made graphics modding extremely easy to do.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 12:38:29 PM   
Kipper


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God be with the days when the DEVELOPER made games.

Anyway, a no-buy on the toy heads/unfinished game and unpleasant attitude.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 12:39:59 PM   
J P Falcon

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kipper

Well, leaving aside your snide and obvious reply, I will tell you why I personally won't be buying. Operational wargaming for me is about role-playing the role of commander. And I can't imagine an operational commander moving little heads around a map.

Comes from an old tradition of not having bits of toy soliders lying on a map. One that has done for hundreds of years. I was thinking : "if this representational system was good enough for these guys, it just may be good enough for me."





So when you get into your "role playing" frame of mind, which uniform do you wear? Honestly, this is one of the most immature reasons I have ever read as to why a person will not buy a game, especially one as good as UoC....

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 12:43:56 PM   
nenad


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Kipper, sorry if anything I said came across as snide or blunt. It was not my intention. I was just trying to give a real rationale behind this particular design choice. Cheers!


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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 1:42:11 PM   
Kipper


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quote:

So when you get into your "role playing" frame of mind, which uniform do you wear? Honestly, this is one of the most immature reasons I have ever read as to why a person will not buy a game, especially one as good as UoC....


No, you just don't understand the concept, that's all. Read Peter Perla's "The Art of Wargaming: A Guide for Professionals and Hobbyists" for an interesting discussion of the nature of wargaming as being essentially that of roleplaying the role of the commander. There are others that deal with the topic but that's the best introductory discussion.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 1:49:01 PM   
Kipper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nenad

Kipper, sorry if anything I said came across as snide or blunt. It was not my intention. I was just trying to give a real rationale behind this particular design choice. Cheers!



I'd say you've lost some sales on that decision. Not as many as with other wargames that drop the NATO symbols though because a) it is advertised as being pretty light and b)lowish price and c) moddable. Won't be buying because the heads are just a mental block for me. If a mod comes out I will have a look but there will be new temptations for the gaming budget by that time.

However I do see from the screenshots a little UI innovation I suggested for a game from a few years back, so there is some common ground in our taste!

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 3:20:04 PM   
Ron

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nenad

Kipper, sorry if anything I said came across as snide or blunt. It was not my intention. I was just trying to give a real rationale behind this particular design choice. Cheers!



No need to apologize at all. In fact, it is Kipper who should be apologizing or making a hasty exit. Far too many wargamers are strident in their demands of what should or should not be.

The icons are cool as are several aspects of the UI in your game. Congratulations on trying something different and the innovative game. I have only scratched the surface, but am really enjoying it thus far, simple yet elegant.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 3:26:03 PM   
Kipper


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quote:


No need to apologize at all. In fact, it is Kipper who should be apologizing or making a hasty exit.


The pace at which I choose how to (not) spend my money is not a matter of apology!

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 3:42:21 PM   
Ron

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kipper


The pace at which I choose how to (not) spend my money is not a matter of apology!




Of course not, the reference you failed to grasp was your behaviour. However, you have mounted your pet horse now so I guess you are going to have to ride it.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 3:56:08 PM   
Kipper


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Oh yes, a consumer wanting some functionality that the product didn't have, and going on record stating that he would have bought it if it had it. Sorry about that. Happy?

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 4:15:43 PM   
Wolfe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kipper

Well, leaving aside your snide and obvious reply, I will tell you why I personally won't be buying. Operational wargaming for me is about role-playing the role of commander. And I can't imagine an operational commander moving little heads around a map.

Comes from an old tradition of not having bits of toy soliders lying on a map. One that has done for hundreds of years. I was thinking : "if this representational system was good enough for these guys, it just may be good enough for me."





And I can't imagine any of these gentelmen are looking at NATO icons.

Having now had the game for 24hrs or so and played through the tutorial and partway through the first Axis scenario on the list I must say that I'm rather getting to like the "funny little heads". Interested to see what people come up with in regard to NATO icons but even then I may still stick with the FLHs.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 4:29:59 PM   
Kipper


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quote:


And I can't imagine any of these gentelmen are looking at NATO icons.


LOL! Good one!

quote:


Having now had the game for 24hrs or so and played through the tutorial and partway through the first Axis scenario on the list I must say that I'm rather getting to like the "funny little heads". Interested to see what people come up with in regard to NATO icons but even then I may still stick with the FLHs.


That at least is a good sign. Wish the devs all the best of luck with this one, but I am no longer able to afford to buy games that I'm not sure I'd be pretty happy with.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 5:19:44 PM   
stormbringer3

 

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I got my 1st Avalon Hill game over 50 years ago and I'm very partial to NATO counters. At first the "heads" were also a concern to me. However, after researching the game, I bought it on the release day and I'm very happy that I did. Having played it, the "heads" have really grown on me. Now, I think that even if there is a NATO counter mod I'll stick with the "heads."

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 5:48:38 PM   
Kipper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

I got my 1st Avalon Hill game over 50 years ago and I'm very partial to NATO counters. At first the "heads" were also a concern to me. However, after researching the game, I bought it on the release day and I'm very happy that I did. Having played it, the "heads" have really grown on me. Now, I think that even if there is a NATO counter mod I'll stick with the "heads."


Thanks for the heads-up! 50 years is a lot of NATO counters to get past - I have just under 30 years gaming behind me with NATO counters and was worried that it would be impossible so you've reassured me!

Will definitely give it some more thought. Read the AARs, etc. last night and read a few forums but people do seem to be getting past the heads pretty successfully. Will shake the head clear and take it from the top again tonight.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 8:13:41 PM   
rogo727


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Kipper,
I too won't be buying this game. I just can't get past the "walking heads". It's like buying a playboy just to read the articles. Another reason, you have no vested intrest in keeping your units alive, other than the prestige factor. If I lose a unit, the next scn I have the same unit avaliable to me. Units are not named historically from what I see in the screen shots. Also Why start at Stalingrad? Why not start in Poland?

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 8:34:35 PM   
Queeg


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I had not originally planned to buy this game, but I now think I will because I love the fact that they don't use NATO-style counters. Thumbs up!

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 8:42:13 PM   
Kipper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Queeg

I had not originally planned to buy this game, but I now think I will because I love the fact that they don't use NATO-style counters. Thumbs up!


There ya go - no accounting for taste

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 8:44:18 PM   
Queeg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kipper


quote:

ORIGINAL: Queeg

I had not originally planned to buy this game, but I now think I will because I love the fact that they don't use NATO-style counters. Thumbs up!


There ya go - no accounting for taste


I actually generally prefer counters myself, but gameplay comes first. Sounds like this one has it. And counters will follow.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 8:49:13 PM   
Kipper


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Well gameplay hidden behind a silly-looking interface ain't much fun. All down to how silly it seems to you, I reckon.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 9:54:09 PM   
Dale H


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^Don't feed the trolls. It just encourages them.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 10:42:46 PM   
Queeg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dale H

^Don't feed the trolls. It just encourages them.


Agreed!

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 10:46:41 PM   
Treale


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Kipper, it's really a neat little game. I don't care for the silly figurines, but I can get past them. Hopefully some nice Nato Counters will show up.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/20/2011 11:39:30 PM   
Kipper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale

Kipper, it's really a neat little game. I don't care for the silly figurines, but I can get past them. Hopefully some nice Nato Counters will show up.


Thanks for the advice Tony I am going to give in and buy it tomorrow. All the indications are that this is something pretty special. It'll have to be for me to get past those heads LOL. I am sure lots of quality artwork went into them but they just ain't for me.

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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/21/2011 3:11:07 AM   
Dale H


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Let us know how you like it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kipper
Thanks for the advice Tony I am going to give in and buy it tomorrow. All the indications are that this is something pretty special. It'll have to be for me to get past those heads LOL. I am sure lots of quality artwork went into them but they just ain't for me.


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RE: Unit icon reference chart - 11/21/2011 6:11:08 AM   
gdrover

 

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Downloaded it yesterday and played the tutorial and five scenarios in the German Campaign.

Really loving this game. It's challenging, fun, and the AI is pretty solid.

I wasn't sure I'd like the heads either, but I appreciate the aesthetic, and they did, in fact, grow on me.

Nice work guys.

I just know I'm going to burn through this game quickly, so the premature and obvious question: When can we get more?
I'm already wanting a mega scenario (200 turns) that covers the entire Russian campaign for armee group south.

Cheers

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