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RE: Wild Sheep Chase

 
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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/6/2013 6:45:13 PM   
Feurer Krieg


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Even if they pounce on unescorted bombers and get shot down, most of those pilot survive and the planes are second rate anyway, so no big loss. More importantly, I have noticed that it is a good way to crank up their XP fast. In my game (early) I have some old Oscar A models defending against small groups of B-17's. They never shoot down any, but man, the experience of those pilots has skyrocketed. And even though some of the fighters get destroyed I don't seem to be losing any of the pilots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I'd forgotten about the training units sometimes reacting as CAP. What if you set them to sweep rather than escort? If the units are that small it won't make a blip anyway as you mentioned. It was just an idea to make them draw fire somehow while taking some heat off your main defence.


I never thought to set them at sweep. Might work well to keep them out of combat as they'll be A6M2, Nates and Oscar Ic mostly.

I guess they could offer deceptive protection for various bases in the back lines as well, making it seem there are fighters to protect against non-escorted raids.



_____________________________


Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net and www.skybirdart.com, copyright John Meeks

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Post #: 2611
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/6/2013 8:55:34 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I'd forgotten about the training units sometimes reacting as CAP. What if you set them to sweep rather than escort? If the units are that small it won't make a blip anyway as you mentioned. It was just an idea to make them draw fire somehow while taking some heat off your main defence.


I never thought to set them at sweep. Might work well to keep them out of combat as they'll be A6M2, Nates and Oscar Ic mostly.

I guess they could offer deceptive protection for various bases in the back lines as well, making it seem there are fighters to protect against non-escorted raids.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Even if they pounce on unescorted bombers and get shot down, most of those pilot survive and the planes are second rate anyway, so no big loss. More importantly, I have noticed that it is a good way to crank up their XP fast. In my game (early) I have some old Oscar A models defending against small groups of B-17's. They never shoot down any, but man, the experience of those pilots has skyrocketed. And even though some of the fighters get destroyed I don't seem to be losing any of the pilots.



Against B-24s this will work differently. Even with very good pilots and airframes I lose a ton trying to ward off 300+ 4E strikes. Often more than 1:1 even when they're unescorted. That's with Franks and Jacks. Using '42 planes with no armor it would be a bloodbath and not may pilots would make it. When you see the first 4E raids coming with B-24 and you don't have the George or Jack yet it'll be clear how difficult it is with only Oscars and Zeros. They're too fragile. Durability and big guns is the key to hitting 4Es. (Plus numbers).

< Message edited by obvert -- 12/7/2013 1:02:53 AM >


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Post #: 2612
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/6/2013 8:57:55 PM   
Feurer Krieg


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From: Denver, CO
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Got it - thanks for the info! I'll make sure I'm planning accordingly in my own game. :)

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Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net and www.skybirdart.com, copyright John Meeks

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Post #: 2613
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/7/2013 8:21:21 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Got it - thanks for the info! I'll make sure I'm planning accordingly in my own game. :)


Of course it all depends on how your opponent uses 4Es. If they don't mass them every turn then yes, these small training groups could have an effect, especially because it's been shown that they can avoid sweeps and just then go for the bombers.

_____________________________

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Post #: 2614
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/7/2013 9:30:22 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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21 - 22 March 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: Looks like the Allied subs are moving in toward Naha, probably to ward off any more attempts at bombardments and to be near to shield any further Allied moves.

DEI: The Allies land on Sumatra and move toward Palembang.

STRAT BOMBING: One night is sufficient to take out ALL of the industry, both HI and LI at Wenchow.

CHINA: The Allies sweep at Liuchow. We have a few radars here and get decent warning. The Allied first wave comes together, cooperating, not coordinating, of course.

I included the full intercept reports for interest as this is a really nice isolated example of how several groups sweeping together will do much better and individual groups do not do well at all. Also nice to note the climbing CAP got over the sweepers in the second two sweeps. Having an altitude limit of 32k should hep us going forward. I think Jocke was too quick to request this after several planes arrived that could sweep above his own. This will really help to even the field moving forward, even with the beast of all beasts making it's debut soon; the P-47N!

The J7M1 is arriving in 5/45, but I'll only have 90/month. So really only the Ki-83 (also 90/month) and J7M1 will get close to the P-47N for speed, and we do get more of them total than he gets of that plane, but the P-47N will still be much better.

I moved in some Ki-83 and Sams the next day and I think he forgot to shut down one of the sweeping Corsair groups. They were met by a lot of diving CAP and probably low on morale, high on fatigue, were decimated.

HOME ISLANDS: I've finally been getting the trashed divisions from Luzon, via Formosa, back to the main islands. These will take some time to fill out again, but might keep some experience, which is good. A bunch of base forces from Luzon are coming back in the next few weeks, and some of these are the big ones that have CD guns, which are needed ASAP on Kyushu. It's interesting that with what the Allies brought to Okinawa they could successfully land at any base in Japanese territory. I don't imagine they've been prepping for Kyushu yet, but I can't discount it either. He is in a hurry!

The Allied fleet moved up and into range of Kyushu. Not sure but it looks like he was trying to hit the BBs that were here for a few days. Instead he hit some newer 27 knot Matsu class DDs patrolling at Kagoshima. It was obviously a deliberate move as sweeps came in first crushing our CAP. Then a strike arrived with massive escort but only a small group of 40+ DB. The CAP did amazingly well in spite of previous losses and virtually wiped out the strike. Two DDs were hit and one sunk. None of the ASW E TFs in the area were attacked, which is too bad!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 21, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Liuchow , at 74,55

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 98

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 35
F4U-1A Corsair x 39
F4U-1D Corsair x 78

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 8 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
36 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet *
30 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet *
32 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet * All of these groups cooperating in sweeps really took it to our elite Frank groups.

CAP engaged:
47th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 29 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 31000 and 37000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
204th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 25 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 27000 and 37000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Liuchow , at 74,55

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 80

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 17
F4U-1D Corsair x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 3 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
23 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet * Fewer planes sweeping and now with more of ours airborne, some maybe even climbing above the oncoming Corsairs, and the results are reversed.

CAP engaged:
47th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
18 plane(s) not yet engaged, 11 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 33000 and 39900.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 69 minutes
204th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 10 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
23 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 27000 and 38900.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Liuchow , at 74,55

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 70

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 15
F4U-1D Corsair x 47

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet *
9 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet * Again the Allies get cooperating sweeps and they do slightly better, but especially watching the replay the defenders get slightly the better of it.

CAP engaged:
47th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
19 plane(s) not yet engaged, 10 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 30000 and 39900.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
204th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
20 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 31920 and 38270.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nago (95,65)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 101428 troops, 1905 guns, 1626 vehicles, Assault Value = 3989

Defending force 16194 troops, 401 guns, 126 vehicles, Assault Value = 135

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 1705

Japanese adjusted defense: 745

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 4

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3156 casualties reported
Squads: 117 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 29 destroyed, 241 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 129 (36 destroyed, 93 disabled)
Vehicles lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1283 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 104 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Guns lost 42 (2 destroyed, 40 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 22, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Wenchow , at 89,58

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 8
B-29-25 Superfort x 43

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 62

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wenchow , at 89,58

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 6

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Liuchow , at 74,55

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 9
Ki-83 x 18
Ki-84r Frank x 34

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 29

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 7 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet *

CAP engaged:
S-901 Hikotai with A7M2 Sam (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 32000 and 35760.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
9th Sentai with Ki-83 (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 28000 and 37000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
47th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 32000 and 38270.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
204th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 24000 and 38000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 51
Ki-84r Frank x 34

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 74

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 12 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet
16 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet

CAP engaged:
352 Ku S-2 with A7M2 Sam (3 airborne, 12 on standby, 19 scrambling)
15 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 35760.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
S-310 Hikotai with A7M2 Sam (3 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 35000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 35000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
13th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 5 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 35000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 104th Division, at 67,44 , near Paoshan

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 38
Liberator GR.VI x 33
B-17E Fortress x 7
B-17F Fortress x 7
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 71

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
426 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 37 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Liberator B.VI bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kagoshima at 102,60

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 63 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 28
Ki-84r Frank x 56

Allied aircraft
Hellcat F.II x 24
F6F-3 Hellcat x 59
F6F-5 Hellcat x 208
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 43

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hellcat F.II: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 12 destroyed
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 11 destroyed, 6 damaged
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak


Japanese Ships
DD Kiri, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Sugi
DD Kaede, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Kaya

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x SB2C-4 Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

2nd Tank Division arrives at Tokyo
10th JAAF AF Coy arrives at Tokyo
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment arrives at Tokyo
4th Ind. Engineer Regiment arrives at Tokyo
S-307 Hikotai arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
62nd Shinbu-tai arrives at Utsonomiya
68th Shinbu-tai arrives at Utsonomiya


Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

xAK Horace Wells is reported to have been sunk near Cotabato on Sep 08, 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nice to get these kinds of results at this point in game. Also over our own territory. The next day was even better, something like 50 losses for 90 Allied CV planes shot down.

I'm not sure what is usual, but with 35k airframe losses we've only lost around 12-13k pilots KIA so far. Seems like that might be decent, but it would be interesting to see figures from another game to know more.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 12/7/2013 11:52:49 PM >


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Post #: 2615
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/7/2013 9:57:58 AM   
koniu

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not sure what is usual, but with 35k airframe losses we've only lost around 12-13k pilots KIA so far. Seems like that might be decent, but it would be interesting to see figures from another game to know more.


In my game I see similar results. Loss ratio is ~1 KIA pilot for 3 lost planes

< Message edited by koniu -- 12/7/2013 11:00:16 AM >


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Post #: 2616
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/7/2013 9:59:11 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

I'm not sure what is usual, but with 35k airframe losses we've only lost around 12-13k pilots KIA so far. Seems like that might be decent, but it would be interesting to see figures from another game to know more.


In my game is see similar results. Loss ratio is ~1 KIA pilot for 3 lost planes


Good to know. Thanks koniu.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 2617
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/7/2013 12:22:20 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5464
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
you need to add in most of your MIA's to your KIA ... a few, a very few, will return, butm ost are gone.

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 2618
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/8/2013 6:14:11 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
23 - 24 March, 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: There are now around 15 subs at Naha. It'll b harder to bombard, now, but not impossible. I do have a lot of ASW ships.

DEI: I might play with a paradrop behind the advancing Allied troops that are entering Georgetown now. Supply and reinforcements can of course be brought in by sea, but it'll still force more units to be brought into play. Maybe more time taken.

STRAT BOMBING: Still clearing mines from the B-29 minelaying at Shanghai. It must be nearly 1000 mines here!

The Allies pick on some small Chinese cities and on Taihoku. Not much to hit, but the B-29s hit it hard.

CHINA: Interesting turn of events here. The Chinese look to be by-passing Kweiyang, and are heading for the mountains! Kunming will be the target, but first of course it will be cut off from supply. It's a good maneuver. I'm contemplating whether I should add another division there to make 1k AV behind the level 9 forts. They will have no supply in a few weeks, and the Allied bombers are already hitting what they do have. The good thing about this is that they're not hitting Formosa, Shanghai or Kyushu. So I'll keep playing along and getting the HI more prepared, which is the only thing I can really defend at this point with strength. Time is passing.

The other interesting thing in China is that my small force of two divisions and a brigade make it to within one hex of Chunking before being discovered!

I didn't think I could cross there but started the troops anyway as I ran a bombing recon mission, and low and behold, it looks like China Command HQ, CAF HQ and a base force there now!!!

Two units are sprinting toward it from the South and my troops would cross in two days if I keep them going. It would be quite funny to take Chungking this way, but I doubt I could hold it. Already these forces have taken a pounding from the Allied 4Es, and it's questionable after two more days of that whether they'd actually win the city if I keep them going. They're in +3 terrain and blocking the supply path for the big MEGA-STACK of 1 million Chinese, so I could just hold, which might be more sound strategy, but not as fun!

LUZON: not much going on in Allied bases on Luzon as the air force focuses on China.

HOME ISLANDS: The USN Corsairs take another shot at Kagoshima, butI wonde if he just forgot and left ten on. They do much less well and get maybe 1.5:1 over our base. Another few divisions leave Formosa and move around near Shanghai, protected by the KB, and on to Fukuoka.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 23, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Taihoku , at 87,63

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 38

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 damaged

Light Industry hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wuchow , at 76,57

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 22

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 21

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 20 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 20
Ki-84r Frank x 29
Ki-102b Randy x 10

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 2 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 3 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 10
Ki-84r Frank x 22
Ki-102b Randy x 5

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kunming , at 69,48

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 121
B-25D1 Mitchell x 4
B-25H Mitchell x 62
B-25J1 Mitchell x 102
B-25J11 Mitchell x 95
P-38J Lightning x 18
P-38L Lightning x 66
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 13
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 13

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 40th Division, at 67,44 , near Paoshan

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 45
Liberator GR.VI x 24
B-17E Fortress x 7
B-17F Fortress x 7
B-24D Liberator x 7
B-24D1 Liberator x 11
B-24J Liberator x 48

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
320 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 29 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Liberator B.VI bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 24, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on China Command , at 76,45 (Chungking)

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 25

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-67-Ib Peggy bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking CAF HQ ...
Also attacking China Command ...
Also attacking CAF HQ ...
Also attacking China Command ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 35th Division, at 76,46 , near Chungking

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 8
B-24J Liberator x 58
B-25D1 Mitchell x 18
B-25G Mitchell x 12
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 15
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 13

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
424 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 49 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
13 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

31st Tankette Co arrives at Tokyo
88th JAAF AF Coy arrives at Tokyo


Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

Previous report of sinking of SS Grouper incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
xAK Cycle is reported to have been sunk near Biak on Aug 17, 1944
1st Ind.AA Gun Co arrives at Tokyo
15th Ind. Engineer Regiment arrives at Tokyo

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It looks like the Allies will split the big MEGA-STACK in China, some up to the mountains and some to deal with the incursion of IJA near Chungking. It also seems, if my eyes aren't playing tricks, that some are trying to move around Kweiyang to the adjacent hex. I'll put a unit or two there just in case. The diversion let me immediately send another two divisions South and they will move into the territory near Wenchow and Liuchow.

The Allied air forces are massive and will eventually sweep away the meagre set of fighter groups I have stationed in China now. Amazing it hasn't happened already. Also, what the hell are 881 auxiliaries? Transports? Hmmmmmm. LR CAP?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 12/8/2013 7:16:54 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2619
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/9/2013 8:10:27 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 5731
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: online
Hey Erik!

Back in Italy...
London was amazing, as always, and I've really loved to meet you! Valentina is really fond of you
The Islandic (sp?!) restaurant (Texture) was great...awesome place, awesome people...but really too expensive! The Michelain star may be well deserved but after a certain level of prices it really becomes "stupid" to waste all that money on food. But Valentina loved it, so it was all for good

Hope to be back there in next spring!
And remember: you promised me and my GF to play against me in the future

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2620
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/9/2013 8:51:39 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Hey Erik!

Back in Italy...
London was amazing, as always, and I've really loved to meet you! Valentina is really fond of you
The Islandic (sp?!) restaurant (Texture) was great...awesome place, awesome people...but really too expensive! The Michelain star may be well deserved but after a certain level of prices it really becomes "stupid" to waste all that money on food. But Valentina loved it, so it was all for good

Hope to be back there in next spring!
And remember: you promised me and my GF to play against me in the future


Hey Nic. So good to see you here again. Glad the trip was a success and Valentina was happy!

Just talking to Rachel and there is a chance we can visit in the Spring. She is in Bologna in March so I might be able to come for a weekend, plus a trip to visit Vicenza. No promises yet, as it's a work trip for her, but it's a maybe at least.

As for a game in the future, it would be great. We'll keep the doors open for an opportunity once these are finished.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2621
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/9/2013 2:00:02 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
25 March 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

RECON: Some looks are being taken at the small islands just off Kyushu. The Allies have been moving fast, so it's not out of the questions they'd go here next, and soon. I've got small units moving to then try to buy the islands to General Defense and then get some brigades on them. Of course, if several Marine divisions arrive, there is nothing that will help other than hitting the transports. From here, though, that would be very possible.

TF 208 observes Allied Aircraft at 101,60 near Koshiki-jima Retto

CHINA: Over the troops near Chungking the Allies unleash all of the power of their 4E arsenal that is in range. They also though drop to 4k feet which means they would be using low ground skill, which they may not be trained for, as the attack does very little compared to fewer bombers the day before.

Our LR CAP does get to the strikes, working against about 90+ P-38s in escort, and we end up in all areas getting about even results on the day. not many 4Es downed, maybe 5-7 all told. Our fighters are in no condition to continue tomorrow, though, and will be moved back to the rail so as not to get caught at small bases.

The troops are stopped as predictably the Allies frantically dash troops into Chungking. The troops moving on the ground are shown to be Chinese cavalry based on a Peggy strike, so they'd be there by tomorrow if we went forward. Also, another unit of unknown type or strength is being flown in by the 881 'auxiliary' planes at Hanoi which must indeed by transports. Or maybe there are more at Ledo flying this unit in while these fly supply to the Chinese. I'll try to LR CAP the Chinese troops to see what happens.

The IJA troops stop short of Chungking, and will dig in there on the main road in the +3 terrain. Low on supply, they will still be tough to move if they get a fort or two built. Near Kweiyang I start troops moving to both flanks to get ownership of the hexes the Chinese are moving to, one to the North and one to the South on the road to Kunming. They will still have to fight to get through, and if I own the hex they may not be able to get supply as easily. The main Allied armies to the SE are moving along the coast and it is still to be determined if any will turn up the yellow road toward Wuchow. This base is lightly defended, as it's a clear hex, but I may throw a division or two behind it in the +3 on the yellow road if he comes this way. Yellow roads are good. Very slow.

Some major sweeps also fly over mostly undefended bases in the SE. It looks like a test. He does catch some bleeding CAP from Canton at Wuchow. More over Nanning hit nothing. Hong Kong is also running very low on supply, while bases to the NW do get a fill-up from the recent drop. I've got some moving direct to HK, but it's a risky endeavor now. May have to drop off at Amoy and see if some flows there.

HOME ISLANDS: I haven't looked at tracker to assess fuel levels lately, but due to destruction of HI I'm thinking it might last longer than I predicted earlier. The KB is running off only the fuel from the one successful dash up through the blockade of the DEI, which brought nearly 50k with it. Down to about 15k of that now, so the KB has moved back to the Shanghai area and will most likely head toward Kyushu soon.

I'll be continuing to get some troops off of Formosa into China and back to the HI. I only have about another 1-2 weeks of a window to do this though, so I've sent some bigger TFs to get some more right away. I'l also make some fast transports to disguise what is happening in some spots.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 25, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Wuchow , at 76,57

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 7
J2M5 Jack x 11
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 12
Ki-102b Randy x 10

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 2 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Chinese Cavalry Corps, at 75,45 , near Chungking

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 25

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
119 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 5th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 76,46 , near Chungking

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 23
Ki-83 x 18

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 114
P-38J Lightning x 35
P-38L Lightning x 56
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-83: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 6 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 3 destroyed

PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
174 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

8 x P-38L Lightning sweeping at 10000 feet
3 x P-38L Lightning sweeping at 10000 feet
8 x P-38J Lightning sweeping at 8000 feet
8 x P-38L Lightning sweeping at 10000 feet
8 x P-38J Lightning sweeping at 8000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 5th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 76,46 , near Chungking

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 11
Ki-83 x 6

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 37th Division, at 67,44 , near Paoshan

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 47
Liberator GR.VI x 23
B-17E Fortress x 8
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 7
B-24D1 Liberator x 14
B-24J Liberator x 62

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
482 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 46 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Liberator B.VI bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nago (95,65)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 101727 troops, 1905 guns, 1627 vehicles, Assault Value = 4004

Defending force 14340 troops, 372 guns, 125 vehicles, Assault Value = 121

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied adjusted assault: 1517

Japanese adjusted defense: 502

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2860 casualties reported
Squads: 28 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 181 destroyed, 72 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled
Guns lost 131 (33 destroyed, 98 disabled)
Vehicles lost 21 (2 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Units destroyed 2

Allied ground losses:
941 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 112 disabled

Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 26 (2 destroyed, 24 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

DD Sumire arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
E No.126 arrives at Tokyo
1st Air Defense AA Battalion arrives at Tokyo
78th Field AA Battalion arrives at Tokyo
4th Ind. AA Battalion arrives at Tokyo


Losses: none.

Ships Sunk: none.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I had the Georges at 20k and the Ki-83 at 32k, so the low strikes got through more easily than they might have if I had been confident there would not be high sweeps. The P-38s also did sweep ahead of the bombers (at 8-10k), clearing most of the CAP by the time the main body arrived.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 12/9/2013 3:01:07 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2622
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/9/2013 2:20:25 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
TRAINING UNITS
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So if you haven't gotten to the end of a Japanese campaign or haven't as an Allied player looked into the OOB toward the end, here is a shot of the air groups yet to arrive up until 8/45. It's nearly all training groups, and it makes me wonder. If these are like the other training groups, they can't strike or fly CAP or sweep. In addition I will lose in the next months groups that have around 250 fighters, plus several other bomber groups!

Can anyone confirm whether these are the same as the earlier truing groups or if they allow more options? If not, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with them all!!

This a serious lot of groups! I think maybe around 160-70!?! Later they're there are even large 27-36 units and some at the end the big flight school groups.

It definitely means I won't be hurting for pilots, no matter what else happens!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 12/9/2013 3:27:08 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2623
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/11/2013 7:53:04 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
26 - 28 March 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So no info on the training units?

STRAT BOMBING: The B-29s are flying if not every night, at least one in three lately. Hopefully this is resulting in some good old fashioned wear and tear.

Henyang is a B-29 target, and since it was one of the remaining sites with LI in China, I placed NF here. Well, they didn't fly! No reason. The base even had full supply. Just didn't go.

Kwangchowan (!??!) is also hit!

CHINA: Some Chinese units have caught up to the small force I have near Chungking and are now attempting to surround them by maneuvering to the North off road. I'll bombard here to see what's in the same hex and eventually I'll move back to not be cut off.

The main stack is still splitting to head to the mountains, most likely. Or they will double back on Kweiyang. I've moved some units over to own the hex they're heading to, but these brigades could be overwhelmed if they have supply. Want to see what we're facing and how it operates.

In the SE some armor is heading toward Liuchow on the yellow road. I've moved a division to block the path and another is swinging around to behind Wuchow. Looks like an Indian tank brigade and a motorized division.

Lots of bombing in the mountains and the units near Paoshan are struggling. The Allies look to be moving over the river though, so the moment of truth is nigh. I asked earlier, but how much are troops disrupted crossing a river. Do they add 30% disruption? Or 50%? How much?

HOME ISLANDS: The Allied fleet moves to near Okinawa just as I turn on a bunch of search to find it in the deeper ocean areas. About 20+ search planes lost and huge losses to Emilys and Bettys! I can't afford this, but I also don't understand it. Aren't they on random search arcs? So how did I lose 9 Bettys from a group off 27 flying from 17 hexes away and set at 17 hexes search? Shouldn't they be on random arcs all over the place? This has never made sense to me. Same for the Emilys. Out of 8 planes flying from a 12 plane group ALL 8 are lost? Did they all go randomly to the same hex where the Allied fleet happened to move? Doesn't make sense at all but it sure reduces my ability to search with anything but Jakes.

The Allies take Nago. Now it's a slugfest in the area as 350+ fighters move in again. I have some ideas about this, but I'll save them for later.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 26, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Hengyang , at 80,53

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 24

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 27, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Nanking , at 91,52

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 24

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 255th Indian Tank Brigade, at 74,58 , near Pakhoi

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 25

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 2 damaged

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-67-Ib Peggy bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-3 with F4U-1A Corsair (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(14 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 32000
Raid is overhead

Also attacking 19th Motorised Division ...
Also attacking 255th Indian Tank Brigade ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 28, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nago (95,65)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 101853 troops, 1905 guns, 1628 vehicles, Assault Value = 4005

Defending force 12514 troops, 340 guns, 123 vehicles, Assault Value = 83

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 2163

Japanese adjusted defense: 505

Allied assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Nago !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
957 casualties reported
Squads: 27 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 202 destroyed, 119 disabled
Engineers: 105 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 211 (178 destroyed, 33 disabled)
Vehicles lost 104 (99 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Units destroyed 3


Allied ground losses:
817 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 94 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: All of these training units are definitely the nothing but training type. Maybe the 27-36 plane units are different? Please, someone?

ML G-601 arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
9th Sentai arrives at Hengyang
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment arrives at Tokyo
26th Tank Regiment arrives at Tokyo
216th Naval Construction Battalion arrives at Tokyo
103rd AA Regiment arrives at Tokyo
244th JAAF AF Bn arrives at Tokyo
48th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
49th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
50th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
51st Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
52nd Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
55th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
57th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
58th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
59th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
60th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
61st Shinbu-tai arrives at Utsonomiya
65th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
66th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
67th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
69th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment arrives at Tokyo
6th Indpt SNLF Coy arrives at Tokyo
4th Indpt SNLF Coy arrives at Tokyo
62nd Construction Battalion arrives at Tokyo
157th JAAF AF Bn arrives at Tokyo


Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

Previous report of sinking of SS Stratagem incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Air losses for the day. This is the reason I'll not see the big one coming more than a day away. Sucks.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 12/11/2013 9:05:21 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2624
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/11/2013 3:14:23 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 2077
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: online
If I were you, I'd be happy he's wasting his B-29s on China, where it nets him no points.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2625
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/11/2013 5:43:18 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

If I were you, I'd be happy he's wasting his B-29s on China, where it nets him no points.


Sure. I am happy about all of the focus on China right now. Does the strat bombing not earn points outside of the HI? I've not paid attention to that since our game is not about points. We agreed from day 1 not to play for points, just for the fun and to learn the game.

Even if we were though, the points would come through secondary effects of bombing Chinese industry. It'll speed his pace of conquering the area and getting more bases in range of the HI. It'll also likely lead to fewer Allied troops destroyed and more Japanese troops killed in battles there. It may lead to reduced performance of air groups as well, and higher kill ratios in that area.





< Message edited by obvert -- 12/11/2013 7:54:52 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 2626
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/11/2013 6:40:03 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3648
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline
You can convert the training groups to kamikaze.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2627
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/11/2013 6:52:56 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

You can convert the training groups to kamikaze.


AHA!!! I simply didn't even look at that area> just looking at the area to the right that show missions and all but training are blocked out. Of course I should have realized that. Pretty much as the Japanese would have done.

So. The 10 plane groups are going to be a bit hard to get anywhere, but the 27-36 plane groups come soon. By the time they come I should have another 500-600 kami pilots trained as well. That's about one trike though.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 2628
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/11/2013 7:00:08 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 2077
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: online
Strategic loss VPs can only be gained for bombing industry in Australia, Hawaii, CONUS, and Japan. So, no China.


But he could just as easily use 2Es (or B-17s) to bomb you in China. The B-29s are wasted here (as would the B-17s and B-24s, but less so).

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2629
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/11/2013 8:12:31 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Strategic loss VPs can only be gained for bombing industry in Australia, Hawaii, CONUS, and Japan. So, no China.


But he could just as easily use 2Es (or B-17s) to bomb you in China. The B-29s are wasted here (as would the B-17s and B-24s, but less so).


Completely agreed. I'm ecstatic there is no bombing in the HI right now!!!

The 300-400 4Es bombing my troops near Paoshan, with another 300 bombing bases nearby? That is another happy moment, as the Allies just crossed and still got a 1:2!

Anything for a few more weeks stalling.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 2630
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/12/2013 2:56:16 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
29 - 30 March 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

DEI: On Malaya the Allies had placed some troops in the rear bases thwarting my paradrop opportunity. No biggie, but I think I forgot to turn these off, so it might happen again tomorrow! Ooops.

STRAT BOMBING: Nanking hit and all industry wiped.

HOME ISLANDS: I turned it all on for a day and got to see the consequences of that. Trying to get to the Allies at this stage will require some thinking and waiting. After moving in the KB and carefully coordinated forces to Formosa, Amami-Oshima and Kyushu all ended up being for nought. The Allies were unloading something, but moved toward Formosa during the day to protect their SAGs that moved to hit small shipping near Taihoku. This left only one slow 4 CV group of the KB in striking range at 8 hexes, but they couldn't penetrate CAP either.

Most waves of strikes came with either mostly escorts or mostly bombers, but rarely a balanced level of each. None achieved necessary levels of escort to get bombers through. One kami strike of Oscars did get 3 planes through of which one hit CVL Cabot. In each location there was good supply, good HQ commanders, good group leaders, significant forces at each altitude band and multiple bands to create movement in the CAP. Aruond 1/3 of the strike planes did not fly. None flew from Kyushu.

The distance, 8-10 hexes did have consequences. Still even the forces 3 hexes away on Amami did not coordinate in spite of all being Oscars (escort and kami) and came so fragmented that the escorts were decimated and few panes got through at all. It's my conclusion after a year of this in game that LBA in late game will be a very small factor for the Japanese until or unless the Allies get very close to big air bases where many thousands of planes can be launched, but also even then it will not provide results even close to what we saw before the beta changes.

The day left the IJ strike forces decimated, with 800+ planes lost against 75 Allied airframes. It didn't help that sweeps meant to draw bleeding CAP two hexes away from the fleets over Nago did not draw any, meaning that 300+ fighters didn't help in the days events at all. A few sweeps against Naha did well but had very light results, whereas all strike results were incredibly extreme. One 49 plane Frank 'a' escort group that had an average of 65 exp was left with 4 planes and 20 out of 65 pilots.

AIR WAR: In my previous email I had mentioned the Lokasenna main forum post and how it seemed there was some discussion in Jocke's AAR about the balance issues between sides in the late game. He responded asking me to rate the 'fun' factor in the air war since 44.

After a turn like this I don't think it's so fun! I told him it was probably not the right turn to answer that!! He hadn't seen this so I'm guessing he was gearing his question toward something else. The air war has slowed down, oddly, in terms of contesting the Japanese air forces. I'm only guessing of course, but I wonder if the Allies are feeling the pinch of their fast pace and it's effect on the pools. It seems that all 4Es are used every day whether there is an important goal or not. I'm not sure if that is the problem or if the fighters are the ones in question. Either way I'm surprised that I'm able to still operate bases that protect troops, harass the Allied advance and LR CAP against bombers all through China as well as on Formosa.

It'll be interesting to talk over in a few months when the game has finished. I guess the veil over the Japanese side is working to some extent as it seems by his comments and this recent query that Jocke is not finding the air war fun. I wish I could get strikes to coordinate with LBA better, but other than that it's been an engaging cat and mouse for me, and a deterrent force to slow the Allied advance, which is the point.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 29, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Iriomote at 89,64, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E No.207, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
PB Shoei Maru, Shell hits 45, and is sunk
PB Shosei Maru, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
PB Taiko Maru, Shell hits 44, and is sunk


Allied Ships
CL Montpelier
CL Birmingham
CL Mobile
CL Miami
DD William Porter
DD Terry
DD Twining
DD Van Valkenburgh
DD Walker
DD Waller
DD Wickes
DD Yarnall

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 96% moonlight: 11,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Naha at 94,66

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 15
A6M5c Zero x 36
J2M3 Jack x 15
P1Y2 Frances x 13
Ki-84a Frank x 98

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 132
Corsair IV x 65
Hellcat I x 10
Seafire IIC x 16
Seafire L.III x 5
F4U-1A Corsair x 76
F4U-1D Corsair x 566
F6F-3 Hellcat x 173
F6F-5 Hellcat x 258

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 5 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 23 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 7 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 7 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 45 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 1 destroyed
Hellcat I: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Naha at 94,66

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 65
D4Y4 Judy x 11

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 108
Corsair IV x 54
Hellcat I x 7
Seafire IIC x 10
Seafire L.III x 5
F4U-1A Corsair x 57
F4U-1D Corsair x 481
F6F-3 Hellcat x 142
F6F-5 Hellcat x 208

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 24 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 8 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 2 destroyed
Seafire IIC: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Naha , at 95,66

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 194 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 47 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 12
Ki-83 x 103

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 3
Spitfire VIII x 84
P-47N Thunderbolt x 68
P-51B Mustang x 50

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 3 destroyed
P-51B Mustang: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
31 x Ki-83 sweeping at 32000 feet
64 x Ki-83 sweeping at 32000 feet

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Naha at 94,66

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 32

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 90
Corsair IV x 54
Hellcat I x 6
Seafire IIC x 9
Seafire L.III x 2
F4U-1A Corsair x 60
F4U-1D Corsair x 439
F6F-3 Hellcat x 128
F6F-5 Hellcat x 183

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 12 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed by flak


No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Franklin
CVL Cabot, Kamikaze hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-43-IV Oscar flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 76,46 (near Chungking)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 5521 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 972

Defending force 31512 troops, 41 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1265

Assaulting units:
63rd Division
35th Division
5th Ind.Mixed Brigade

Defending units:
78th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps
36th Chinese Corps
39th Chinese Corps
37th Chinese Corps
5th Chinese Cavalry Corps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 67,44 (near Paoshan)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 46259 troops, 835 guns, 532 vehicles, Assault Value = 1689

Defending force 36287 troops, 354 guns, 168 vehicles, Assault Value = 1079

Allied adjusted assault: 1018

Japanese adjusted defense: 2014

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
2593 casualties reported
Squads: 73 destroyed, 56 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 25 (6 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
3323 casualties reported
Squads: 129 destroyed, 174 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 18 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 31 (5 destroyed, 26 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (2 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Assaulting units:
39th Indian Division
25th Indian Division
23rd Indian Division
7th Indian Division
8th New Chinese Corps
4th West African AA Regiment
1st Burma Auxiliary AA Regiment
88th Medium Regiment
23rd AA Bde
56th Heavy Regiment
3rd West African AA Regiment
2nd West African AA Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment

Defending units:
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
104th Division
40th Division
37th Division
1st Army
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 30, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Nanking , at 91,52

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 43

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Calayan at 83,71

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y4 Judy x 29

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 52

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 21 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

801 Ku T-1 arrives at Hiroshima/Kure
87th Sentai arrives at Kagoshima
721 Ku S-1 arrives at Kumamoto
74th Sentai arrives at Taichu
26th Sentai arrives at Taihoku
77th Shinbu-tai arrives at Chiba
168th Shinbu-tai arrives at Chiba
34th JAAF AF Bn arrives at Tokyo
2nd JAAF AF Coy arrives at Tokyo
E Hodaka arrives at Tokyo
60th Sentai arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
73rd Shinbu-tai arrives at Rashin
74th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
75th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
147th Division arrives at Maizuru
17th RF Gun Battalion arrives at Tokyo
DD Enoki arrives at Nagoya
E No.77 arrives at Tokyo
E No.196 arrives at Tokyo
E No.198 arrives at Tokyo


Losses:

Loss of E No.207 on Mar 29, 1945 is admitted
Loss of PB Shoei Maru on Mar 29, 1945 is admitted
Loss of PB Shosei Maru on Mar 29, 1945 is admitted
Loss of PB Taiko Maru on Mar 29, 1945 is admitted
Loss of SC Ch 30 on Mar 29, 1945 is admitted


Ships Sunk:

Previous report of sinking of APA Harris incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
SS Tuna is reported to have been sunk near Fukuoka on Jan 31, 1945

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is the butcher's bill. Expensive meat.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 12/12/2013 3:57:40 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2631
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/12/2013 11:55:03 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2757
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
This turn's results worries me. Which did you launch more of, conventional or Kamikaze strikes? Bullwinkle often comments about Kamikaze strikes against the AI and how effective they can be. The beta seems to limit the effectiveness of LBA regardless of the pilot skill set, type of aircraft or Air HQ input. My hat's off to you for being as positive as you are, but I see the future of my game reflected in yours and I'm not looking forward to it. I think the beta is now too extreme in it's handling of air coordination and obviously strike packages seem to make no sense whatsoever. I can understand these types of results if the Japanese pilot pools reflect historic, but you've done a good job with planes and pilots all game. To see these kind of results, well...

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2632
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/13/2013 12:46:01 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 352
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

This turn's results worries me. Which did you launch more of, conventional or Kamikaze strikes? Bullwinkle often comments about Kamikaze strikes against the AI and how effective they can be. The beta seems to limit the effectiveness of LBA regardless of the pilot skill set, type of aircraft or Air HQ input. My hat's off to you for being as positive as you are, but I see the future of my game reflected in yours and I'm not looking forward to it. I think the beta is now too extreme in it's handling of air coordination and obviously strike packages seem to make no sense whatsoever. I can understand these types of results if the Japanese pilot pools reflect historic, but you've done a good job with planes and pilots all game. To see these kind of results, well...


Agreed. If you're able to keep a competitive Japanese air force, then mass Kamikaze attacks should really start to become the turn to tactic for Japan.

I'm not saying that it should be bloodless (far from it, American flak should take its due), but it remaining a one-sided slaughter despite pilot parity is quite concerning.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 2633
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/13/2013 6:25:59 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

This turn's results worries me. Which did you launch more of, conventional or Kamikaze strikes? Bullwinkle often comments about Kamikaze strikes against the AI and how effective they can be. The beta seems to limit the effectiveness of LBA regardless of the pilot skill set, type of aircraft or Air HQ input. My hat's off to you for being as positive as you are, but I see the future of my game reflected in yours and I'm not looking forward to it. I think the beta is now too extreme in it's handling of air coordination and obviously strike packages seem to make no sense whatsoever. I can understand these types of results if the Japanese pilot pools reflect historic, but you've done a good job with planes and pilots all game. To see these kind of results, well...


There could obviously be some detail of management I'm missing, but I certainly am not doing anything differently than earlier, and things did fly with almost perfect coordination pre-beta.

Pilots in strike planes are around 55exp, 65-70 skill.

One thing I've had difficulty with is getting planes to fly at all. Several of my escort groups just sat around watching, while no strike planes flew from Kyushu the 9-10 hexes to the strike area. About 300 more were set to fly from this area.

The balance of conventional/kami was about 70/30. These were all mixed in with other similar planes. I also tried high/low strikes, but large strikes were set for each band with escort in each. So Peggys at 20k with Frank escorts. Grace and Jill at 15k. Frances at 1k.

Maybe I should try setting everyone to one altitude band next time, but that is what i've usually done, and it doesn't seem to work any better at this point.

Okinawa is like the perfect Allied target in late game because they have CV dominance but it's close enough you feel like you should be able to hit something, so when you try it's just a massacre. In your game I'd focus on buying out good LCUs from Manchuria and getting max stacking limits on literally every island from Formosa to Kyushu, the Marianas, Bonins and Kuriles. The issue here is even if i'd had Naha to where I wanted it, which I didn't, the Allies landed 5000 AV of late war stuff. Nothing can touch that. My plan of using a quick reaction force with lots of troops added near the invasion date and after would have simply meant a few more weeks of slaughter before the bases fell. Stacking limits will prevent this kind of MEGA-landing.

Winning a CV battle in late 42 was probably the worst thing to happen for the health of the game as it meant the Allies had to focus on a massed, ultra-concentrated approach in the air and land war. Jocke learned very good systems for pushing this agenda forward, but it's led to some odd outcomes in late game by utilizing the same tactics with this much stuff to play with. It's Scen 1 though, and I've learned a lot. Next time, SL is a must.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 2634
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/13/2013 8:25:27 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

This turn's results worries me. Which did you launch more of, conventional or Kamikaze strikes? Bullwinkle often comments about Kamikaze strikes against the AI and how effective they can be. The beta seems to limit the effectiveness of LBA regardless of the pilot skill set, type of aircraft or Air HQ input. My hat's off to you for being as positive as you are, but I see the future of my game reflected in yours and I'm not looking forward to it. I think the beta is now too extreme in it's handling of air coordination and obviously strike packages seem to make no sense whatsoever. I can understand these types of results if the Japanese pilot pools reflect historic, but you've done a good job with planes and pilots all game. To see these kind of results, well...


Agreed. If you're able to keep a competitive Japanese air force, then mass Kamikaze attacks should really start to become the turn to tactic for Japan.

I'm not saying that it should be bloodless (far from it, American flak should take its due), but it remaining a one-sided slaughter despite pilot parity is quite concerning.


The way I look at the game now is that the extreme outcomes can in most instances balance each other out. The Allies lose 250 planes going for some ASW TFs near Kyushu due to the on/off targeting system in game. The Japanese wait for an opportunity and let it all go with the chance to do some thing big, but generally get poor outcomes with lots of destroyed airframes for a few hits.

The difficulty is not the air battles themselves but what they open up in terms of extremes in the sea and land portions of the game. If the Japanese cannot hit a massed Allied invasion landing 5000 AV over a day's unload, which is next to impossible in certain spots as shown in the past few turns (and previously at Tavoy, Manado, Cotabato and elsewhere) and if there are no stacking limits, then the Allies can simply load up, re-prep and leap-frog their way to the HI with no consequences for leaving a contested LOC. I don't care about the air war except what it means to control of ground bases and areas of ocean.

The beta is preferable to sinking the entire Allied fleet in a silly 1,000 plane coordinated strike, but maybe there is a middle ground not yet discovered. I do think it is important to wait until the Allies get much closer, but I really wanted to try to do something now, if only to prove to myself that I should be doing nothing but stalling by using the LBA as a deterrent force. Now the Allies know for sure that I can't really get to them, which opens other doors, whereas previously they might have only assumed I couldn't do it. The other hope though is that this breeds over-confidence that can be used later if they do decide to get risky and get close. It's always a push and pull, and the psychology of the game is still very active, which makes it fun. If I can't predict where he is going I can read Jocke's moves on a daily basis pretty well, and not meaning what he is doing necessarily, but what the moves he makes tell me about his state of mind in the game.

Recently, in the past several months of game post Frank 'r' he has reduced sweeps to almost nothing, has bombed only ground troops other than the several days shutting Manila finally, and in general seems much less active in the air. This makes me think he has been waiting for the P-47N, that possibly he wanted to get pools of the best planes up (as he won't use second tier planes in the front lines, period), and that this was frustrating. This was to an extent confirmed by his recent message asking about rating the air war on a 'fun' scale.

The fun for me is anything that takes more time to plow through. So the emphasis on China has been fantastic. I thought I might have to expect an invasion of Hokkaido soon based on recon a while back. This has given me time to get some more solid forces there, to fill out new divisions on the HI, and to get a solid pool of planes for every major type all ready to go . This recent strike hurt IJAAF fighter pilot pools, as my Frank 'a' groups were toasted in an escort role, but everything else is fine.

< Message edited by obvert -- 12/13/2013 9:29:56 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 2635
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/13/2013 9:08:41 AM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
Perhaps you might keep a save of this turn as a basis for further finetunings and developments. Maybe the air engine need different parameters in 1944/45 than in '41/42 (which could reflect the improved expirience and technologies in arranging big strikes).
An interesting situation, to say the least, not many games get so far, let alone in such a detailled AAR by both sides: We read happily both sides! Which is the reason, I think, that you don't get as many comments as you both deserve (your artistic background could not be denied given the choosen photos)- better keeping my mouth closed, instead of influencing unconsciously the outcome... :-)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2636
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/13/2013 10:09:58 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

Perhaps you might keep a save of this turn as a basis for further finetunings and developments. Maybe the air engine need different parameters in 1944/45 than in '41/42 (which could reflect the improved expirience and technologies in arranging big strikes).
An interesting situation, to say the least, not many games get so far, let alone in such a detailled AAR by both sides: We read happily both sides! Which is the reason, I think, that you don't get as many comments as you both deserve (your artistic background could not be denied given the choosen photos)- better keeping my mouth closed, instead of influencing unconsciously the outcome... :-)


Well, comment as much as you like in here, even if you're reading both sides! There's not much you can influence at this point anyway!

I know it's probably more fun to help the side with the best stuff and momentum in 45, but it's kind of sad that there are literally no AARs for the Japanese side this late and so little support for the ones that do go far. The only one I can think of is rader's from a few years ago, and that was tough because there was so much criticism of his ability to play so well so late and of the methods he found for using the tools in game to best advantage.

Seriously though, I do like the comments by people reading both sides, because if you're reading and not commenting I might not even know you've been here. I trust the community in general, but if a player who's never posted here is listed looking at this AAR and then soon after posts in Jocke's it does feel a bit odd. Plus it's a lot more fun to have discussions about this part of the game than simply slogging solo through the final days of destruction.

This turn might not be the best to use for some later analysis. A turn where the parameters for a successful strike are much better, especially when the distance to target is less, might be good to look at, and then maybe we can see how it will work with the beta. I still believe there will be some successes, but it'll take some real prep to get things in the right places and some patience to wait until something is close enough to get some coordination.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 2637
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/13/2013 10:58:31 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5464
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
Well, he had +1250 fighters up in CAP ... you can't sweep TF's, so that means all you can do is attack. But given the minus for escort against CAP, you would need to have sent ~1750 fighters on escort just to even up the odds ... +2000 to be able to tip them in your favor. THEN you add in bombers.

The only way I know how to do this is 2 days ... first day +2000 fighters escorting minimal bombers ... just enough bombers to get all of the escorts to fly. Your goal is to seriously diminish his fighter CAP. 2nd day, which requires him NOT to have withdrawn out of your LBA range (some luck required here ...), you then go back in with +2000 fighters, but this time full bomber/kami.

Even if you don't get a 2nd day, if you can cost him +500 fighters, you delay him a month while he replenishes AG's.

Main thing is the +2000 fighters though on your escort ... and I would want ~3000 fighters against his 1250 on CAP. VERY hard to pull that many AV Engr LCU's together on enough closely spaced AF's to accomplish this though.

Just my $0.02 ...


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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2638
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/13/2013 11:38:48 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6255
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Well, he had +1250 fighters up in CAP ... you can't sweep TF's, so that means all you can do is attack. But given the minus for escort against CAP, you would need to have sent ~1750 fighters on escort just to even up the odds ... +2000 to be able to tip them in your favor. THEN you add in bombers.

The only way I know how to do this is 2 days ... first day +2000 fighters escorting minimal bombers ... just enough bombers to get all of the escorts to fly. Your goal is to seriously diminish his fighter CAP. 2nd day, which requires him NOT to have withdrawn out of your LBA range (some luck required here ...), you then go back in with +2000 fighters, but this time full bomber/kami.

Even if you don't get a 2nd day, if you can cost him +500 fighters, you delay him a month while he replenishes AG's.

Main thing is the +2000 fighters though on your escort ... and I would want ~3000 fighters against his 1250 on CAP. VERY hard to pull that many AV Engr LCU's together on enough closely spaced AF's to accomplish this though.

Just my $0.02 ...



In the official patch, yes. In the beta, it will not work this way. Of the maybe 500-600 at Taihoku 165 came with the first package of 13 Frances, then 58 with 34 Grace and it just keeps going like that. With more planes one package, maybe two might be large, but there is no guarantee they would dent the CAP, as the kills in the biggest strike of the day (for escorts) lost about half the planes, probably around 80-90 of them, for around 10 Allied losses.

I sent about 500 fighters sweeping and those actually did well, but didn't get the bleed hoped for. Only the LBA bled to Nago, just one hex away, probably due to only infantry being present now. Later, when radar sets are being used there, much of the fleet and LBA CAP might bleed over against sweeps and get whittled that way. Even knocking them out of position by one or two hexes should improve strike results.

In beta if I run a 'flying circus' the fighters will go piecemeal, even single air groups will be split for strike groups, and the result will be even more fighters lost. It's much harder to use these techniques now in beta, even though there is a sound historical precedent. Interestingly the Germans didn't always fall for the tactic either.

The LBA strikes that got through were unescorted (or very lightly escorted) Oscars!! There were around 34 at 20k and 3 got through in the first instance with one hit on CVL Cabot. In the second it was around the same number and 12 got through with no hits. So it is possible and moving the CAP somewhere (up, down, out a few hexes) as well as making sure they have something to hit that turn (which sends away portions of groups as escort potentially, not allowing them to be there to scramble) might be keys. Time to target will likely decrease with proximity of striking bases as well.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2639
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/13/2013 11:49:47 AM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
OT - you will be astonished by reading some of the comments in the other AAR, I promise you :-) no OPSECS violance, btw.

"... more fun to help the side with the best stuff and momentum..."
momentum? more ranting because of the lack of... :-)) Memento mori, rise and fall, allways been the plot of epic tragedies

(@ regarding test scenario - you will tweak the positions and orders a bit, of course. My point was simple to take data from a real game situation as starting point)

/ OT

< Message edited by Wuffer -- 12/13/2013 12:51:48 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2640
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