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RE: Wild Sheep Chase

 
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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/16/2013 10:06:23 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

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I wonder if Jock has any replenishment CVEs around? If so, he could rebuild much of his CV based air units this turn.

_____________________________

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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1801
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/16/2013 11:16:24 PM   
obvert


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Not sure. It seems he uses most of his as regular CVs.

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1802
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/17/2013 2:22:17 AM   
Dora09

 

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Hello obvert,
I'm not sure if this addresses your kb movement woes but when I move kb (I usually use three separate CV/CVL TF sometime plus SC TF and ASW TF), I set the slowest air TF as the leader and then have all other TF follow that one. The obvious drawback is that it nullifies the faster air TFs but it guarantees they all stay together. Using this system I have never had any surprises.

I hope you are able to get all your surviving CVs out safe. Good luck.


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1803
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/17/2013 12:42:38 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

Hello obvert,
I'm not sure if this addresses your kb movement woes but when I move kb (I usually use three separate CV/CVL TF sometime plus SC TF and ASW TF), I set the slowest air TF as the leader and then have all other TF follow that one. The obvious drawback is that it nullifies the faster air TFs but it guarantees they all stay together. Using this system I have never had any surprises.

I hope you are able to get all your surviving CVs out safe. Good luck.




Thanks. In past I've used that method, I've used patrol points, I've ask used destinations to a hex 'no retreat.' All seem to both work and not work to keep CVs in the same location.

In this instance the faster groups capable of traveling 13 hexes (9/4) did different things, while the next fastest at (8/4) did another and the slowest ended up going three hexes farther than the destination point. So it seems that in some ways it doesn't matter what the hell you do. The game can just make a choice of it's own anyway.



_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1804
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/17/2013 1:15:02 PM   
Dora09

 

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That is strange your slowest one went farthest. Were all the reaction distances the same? I know that as you say these things just happen. I apologize for asking further, I just think it natural for us to look for a clear reason as to why there are these anomalies. I know it sucks for you in this case, (believe me they have happened to me) but in a way it is nice that there is an element of unpredictability and chaos built in (intended or not) because I feel it helps mimic that which existed in the actual war (luck and human error). I am currently in a game that has been going right along with yours. In fact for a long time I was 4-5 months behind you but then when you had that slow down I caught up and now I am a week out from Jan 45. I am not in as good a position as you but still hanging in there and making a good fight of it.

In mid 44 I had a big carrier dual in which my entire kb air force flew right over my opponents CVs and attacked CVEs behind it. The result is that in our game I have sunk close to 30 CVEs but only have sunk 2 CVs and a few CVLs all game!! It was infuriating at the time to watch multiple large strikes fly right over the "real target". I ended up losing 3 CVs and 2 CVLs in that clash.

Anyways, good luck. Your AAR has been a guide for me through most of my game, now that I am ahead of you I feel that I am flying blind a bit (please forgive the pun).

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1805
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/17/2013 3:22:08 PM   
obvert


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3 August 1944: BATTLE of the CELEBES
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Firstly, congrats to Jocke on a well-played sequence of moves, and in fact a very well planned and executed year from mid-43 to now. He deserves the success he's having now. Although I'm sure I've made some mistakes, he has really driven hard recently and put the IJ in tough situations. Hats off to a great opponent.

Now for the misery and frustration.

PRE-BATTLE: The lead-up to this battle involved an extended look at what was operating in the area and increased search for two days before choosing to use the KB. It seemed at the time that there was a limited CVE TF moving toward Manado or Ambon and there was no sighting of the larger US fleet. Either Jocke intentionally hid them or they simply weren't seen by my extensive night and day search planes.

I set the KB to move in four TFs all to one point 10 hexes from their previous position. This was well within their range for mission speed and they had all refueled the previous day from tankers in the hex. One SAG and two ASW TFs accompanied the KB. None of the TFs ended in the set hex.

The separation of the TFs pretty much guaranteed the air strikes would come in separated and really hurt in terms of CAP, with many TFs having inadequate CAP alone. In hindsight I would have set one to follow others but I used this setting because the last time I used 'follow' the TFs moved only 5-6 hexes and weren't in range the next day for any strikes. In this case, knowing what I know now about what was here, that might have been a better option!

STRIKES: We got the first strike, but it wasn't a great one. I still didn't know what was here at that point. A lot of CVE/CVL were hit and only 1-2 fleet CV showed in the animation. Considering the amount of CAP up I feel the fragmented strikes from the Japanese CVs did quite well.

Defensively the CVs were in the worst possible situation due to the movement issues. They were in 3 different hexes, as far as 3 hexes from each other and thus couldn't support in defense. The Allied strikes were luckily nothing like what we've been seeing. There were many, they were effective, but moderated as well by several without escorts. Our LBA LR CAP was less effective than I would thought it would be considering 100 fighters were flying out of Jolo and another 100 from other nearby bases. The Hiyo/Junyo TF got no support from the LBA at Manado even though a zero group was dedicated to it and all other fighters were on CAP with a wide range.

OUTCOME:

Allies - A lot of CVE hit by bombs, two look in danger. An ammo storage explosion on the CVL Belleau Wood. A TT in Illustrious.

CV - 1 hit by 1 TT. CVL - 1 hit by 1 TT. CVE - 9 hit by 12 bombs (500kg) - 2 hit by 2 TT.

IJN - Junyo gone, Hiyo likely to follow tomorrow unless a miracle gets the boilers pumped up to make better than 10 knots. Zuiho and Ryujo gone. Shoho to follow tomorrow. Kaga and Akagi in danger with 50-60 float damage and very small fires. I've sent them toward Manila. Will he pursue?

CV - 5 hit by 7 TT and 9 bombs (mix of 1000lb and 250lb). CVL - 4 hit by 4 TT and 18 bombs. BB - 4 hit by 4 TT and 6 bombs.

A small SAG of Fuso and Yamashiro will move directly at the US fleet in the night at flank, 4 hexes to destiny. It's doubtful it will be effective, but if it can cause any confusion or slow any of the US CVs maybe other ships can be saved. These five, including the 3 DDs, will not.

DEI: This day will leave virtually any road open for the Allies. I'm hoping now for something toward Saigon to activate kamis. anything to the S DEI will just get to the oil faster and shorten our economic viability. Of course much of the fleet will just park after this event, so that'll save some too.

LBA is wiped out. A good half of the strikes wen for shipping at Morotai even though Manado and the US fleet were in range and in some cases closer. Not happy about that.

SUBS: Our midget subs did nothing and the fleet subs didn't get a shot at anything either. Hopefully there will be some cripples to target in the next day or two. Jocke has 2-3 subs in the Sulu Sea area, so his could also play a part. I'm happy at least we've taken a lot out over the past weeks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR August 3, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Manado at 76,99

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 16
A6M5b Zero x 64
B6N2 Jill x 35
B6N2a Jill x 65
D4Y3 Judy x 51
D4Y4 Judy x 23

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 65
Hellcat I x 24
Seafire IIC x 17
Wildcat V x 6
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 29
F4U-1A Corsair x 261
F6F-3 Hellcat x 280

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 6 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 20 destroyed, 1 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 3 destroyed by flak
B6N2a Jill: 28 destroyed, 9 damaged
B6N2a Jill: 2 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 22 destroyed, 5 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied aircraft losses
Seafire IIC: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


Allied Ships
CVE Ommaney Bay
CVE Wake Island, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CVE Petrof Bay, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CVE Breton
CVE Kalinin Bay, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Belleau Wood, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CVL Langley
CVE Savo Island, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CVE Kitkun Bay, Bomb hits 1
CVE Santee, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CVE Ranee
CVL Unicorn
CVE Copahee, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Intrepid
CVL Princeton
CVE Nehenta Bay, Bomb hits 1
CVE Anzio
CVE Corregidor
CVL San Jacinto
CVE Marcus Island, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CVE Barnes, Bomb hits 1

Ammo storage explosion on CVL Belleau Wood
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Marcus Island

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Manado at 76,99

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 11
A6M5b Zero x 42
B6N2a Jill x 23
D4Y3 Judy x 39
D4Y4 Judy x 18

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 64
Hellcat I x 23
Seafire IIC x 16
Wildcat V x 6
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 19
F4U-1A Corsair x 256
F6F-3 Hellcat x 243

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 5 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 5 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 9 destroyed, 3 damaged
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 18 destroyed, 4 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 10 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed


Allied Ships
CVE Altamaha
CVL Cowpens
CVE Casablanca
CV Illustrious
CVE Corregidor, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Essex
CVE Anzio

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Manado at 76,99

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 14
B6N2a Jill x 17
D4Y3 Judy x 20
D4Y4 Judy x 21

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 62
Hellcat I x 21
Seafire IIC x 16
Wildcat V x 6
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 11
F4U-1A Corsair x 247
F6F-3 Hellcat x 220

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 5 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 3 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Bunker Hill
CV Illustrious, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Langley
CV Intrepid
CVL San Jacinto

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Manado at 76,99

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 28
A6M5c Zero x 28
B6N2 Jill x 16
B6N2a Jill x 42
D4Y3 Judy x 84

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 56
Hellcat I x 21
Seafire IIC x 14
Wildcat V x 4
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 5
F4U-1A Corsair x 231
F6F-3 Hellcat x 195

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 6 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 5 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 11 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 25 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 50 destroyed, 3 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed


Allied Ships
CVL Cabot
CV Viking
CV Bunker Hill
CVL Monterey
CV Midgaard
CV Illustrious
DD Welles

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Manado at 74,95

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 8
A6M5b Zero x 28
A6M5c Zero x 2

Allied aircraft
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 28
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 29
TBM-1C Avenger x 15

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 17 destroyed, 1 damaged
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 13 destroyed, 8 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak
TBM-1C Avenger: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak


Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 1
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Ryuho
BB Fuso
CVL Shoho
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Jolo at 74,92

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 13
A6M5b Zero x 68
N1K2-J George x 5
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 5
Ki-61-Id Tony x 6

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 134
SBD-5 Dauntless x 25
TBM-1C Avenger x 113

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
SBD-5 Dauntless: 7 destroyed, 5 damaged
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak
TBM-1C Avenger: 19 destroyed, 18 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 destroyed by flak


Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Yamato, Torpedo hits 1
BB Musashi
CVL Ryujo, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
CV Taiho, Torpedo hits 1
CV Amagi
CV Akagi, Torpedo hits 1
CV Hiryu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Jolo at 74,92

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 8
A6M5b Zero x 33
N1K2-J George x 5
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 1
Ki-61-Id Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 41
TBM-1C Avenger x 55

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 16 destroyed, 16 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Amagi
BB Musashi, Torpedo hits 1
BB Yamato, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Taiho
CV Hiryu
CV Akagi, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CVL Ryujo, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

CV Kaga, on fire, heavy damage

Fuel storage explosion on CV Akagi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Jolo at 75,94

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 20
A6M5c Zero x 18
Ki-84a Frank x 2

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 42
TBM-1C Avenger x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 8 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak


Japanese Ships
CV Ikoma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Manado at 74,95

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Allied aircraft
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 29

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 7 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 2
CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

BB Fuso, Bomb hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Jolo at 74,92

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 14 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 5
A6M5b Zero x 20
N1K2-J George x 1
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 1

Allied aircraft
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 27

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 6 destroyed, 3 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 3 destroyed by flak


Japanese Ships
CV Amagi
CV Unryu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Jolo at 74,92

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 3
A6M5b Zero x 13
N1K2-J George x 1

Allied aircraft
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 28

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak


Japanese Ships
CV Amagi
CV Taiho
CV Unryu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Jolo at 75,94

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 5
A6M5c Zero x 7
Ki-84a Frank x 2

Allied aircraft
SBD-5 Dauntless x 29

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 10 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Katsuragi
CV Kasagi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Jolo at 74,92

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1
A6M5b Zero x 9
N1K2-J George x 1

Allied aircraft
SBD-5 Dauntless x 25

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Manado (75,99)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

44 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
APA Highlands, Shell hits 3
CL Nashville

75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at APA Highlands
8cm T88 DP Gun battery firing at APA Highlands
8cm T88 DP Gun battery firing at APA Highlands

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Manado (75,99)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 19718 troops, 158 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 702

Defending force 18159 troops, 494 guns, 329 vehicles, Assault Value = 757

Japanese ground losses:
75 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
78th Infantry Brigade
80th Infantry Brigade
2nd Ind.Infantry Brigade
109th Division
37th Ind. Engineer Regiment
44th IMB Artillery Battalion
103rd AA Regiment
Gohoku JNAF Base Force
51st Base Force

Defending units:
93rd Infantry Division
40th Infantry Division
148th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Medium Regiment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Sidate (75,100)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4790 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 188

Defending force 711 troops, 0 guns, 102 vehicles, Assault Value = 72

Assaulting units:
74th Infantry Regiment
56th Naval Guard Unit
3rd FF Const Unit

Defending units:
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

Aircraft Ki-43-IV Oscar advances R&D

Losses:

Junyo
Loss of CVL Ryujo on Aug 03, 1944 is admitted
Zuiho
Loss of SS I-182 on Aug 03, 1944 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-21 on Aug 03, 1944 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-30 on Aug 03, 1944 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-31 on Aug 03, 1944 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-32 on Aug 03, 1944 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-33 on Aug 03, 1944 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-36 on Aug 03, 1944 is admitted


Ships Sunk: maybe a CVE or two were lost, but my real hopes lay with the subs nearby and picking off one or two in the night.

???
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This map explains most of it. Why do CVs react when not set to again? Who is that supposed to work for? Ahh, yes, chance. Wouldn't it be good if there was a message saying that this was happening, or that you just got a bad roll?

I hate to complain about the engine, so I'll stop after this, but it does take away from what is a great game to have the biggest decisions put in the lands of a numerical calculator.

Again though, this is Jocke's time, and he is playing well. I'm glad he stuck with the game he thought he had lost several times. He is on track to have a very strong finish, which I hope to do my damnedest to derail!

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/17/2013 5:05:56 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Dora09)
Post #: 1806
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/17/2013 3:31:23 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

That is strange your slowest one went farthest. Were all the reaction distances the same? I know that as you say these things just happen. I apologize for asking further, I just think it natural for us to look for a clear reason as to why there are these anomalies. I know it sucks for you in this case, (believe me they have happened to me) but in a way it is nice that there is an element of unpredictability and chaos built in (intended or not) because I feel it helps mimic that which existed in the actual war (luck and human error). I am currently in a game that has been going right along with yours. In fact for a long time I was 4-5 months behind you but then when you had that slow down I caught up and now I am a week out from Jan 45. I am not in as good a position as you but still hanging in there and making a good fight of it.

In mid 44 I had a big carrier dual in which my entire kb air force flew right over my opponents CVs and attacked CVEs behind it. The result is that in our game I have sunk close to 30 CVEs but only have sunk 2 CVs and a few CVLs all game!! It was infuriating at the time to watch multiple large strikes fly right over the "real target". I ended up losing 3 CVs and 2 CVLs in that clash.

Anyways, good luck. Your AAR has been a guide for me through most of my game, now that I am ahead of you I feel that I am flying blind a bit (please forgive the pun).


The map above should give an idea what happened in the end, but get no closer to understanding why.

I think the reaction toggle should work absolutely. In a game with so many variables to have the MOST important element, CVs, survive or sink based on a calculator somewhere deciding if they react in spite of orders is ludicrous. It makes what is a really good game into a mediocre game. I don't just feel this about the IJN side, but it can impact the Allies just as severely, especially early.

In this situation there is no need to react as all targets are in range. The reaction is meant to get ships to engage.

In your game I'd be pretty happy about those 30 CVEs. Nice job!


< Message edited by obvert -- 6/17/2013 3:57:53 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Dora09)
Post #: 1807
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/17/2013 3:36:02 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9796
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
We fought this fight - we gave it our best shot - when the game came out (and also in WitP). We were told absolutely there would be no change in the reaction routine. So we've learned some ways to get around it - replace your carrier commanders with officers who have low aggression (which means they are generally not very good commanders and are afraid of their own shadows). You can also have carriers follow a merchant TF, though I haven't done that in quite awhile. Mainly, my default attitude is to assume that my carriers will react against orders in the most damaging ways possible. Thus, whenever I commit my carriers to action, I am taking into consideration the likelihood of disaster.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1808
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/17/2013 3:55:47 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

We fought this fight - we gave it our best shot - when the game came out (and also in WitP). We were told absolutely there would be no change in the reaction routine. So we've learned some ways to get around it - replace your carrier commanders with officers who have low aggression (which means they are generally not very good commanders and are afraid of their own shadows). You can also have carriers follow a merchant TF, though I haven't done that in quite awhile. Mainly, my default attitude is to assume that my carriers will react against orders in the most damaging ways possible. Thus, whenever I commit my carriers to action, I am taking into consideration the likelihood of disaster.


Thanks Dan. I wasn't aware of that fight. Before my time here. I did go into this one knowing it might be a last stand, so it's not as bad as it could be by far, and I've learned something again. Probably a pretty accurate battle for the time period as well.

Never thought of the merchant follow.

I'd like to do some more tests with all of this over the summer and use the actual commanders I usually use in game just to get a feeling for them. Kind of like wargaming before the battles that actual navies will do to teach, learn and test out their theories. If I recall correctly none are very low aggression, but none too high either, probably averaging around 58-60.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1809
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/17/2013 3:59:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9796
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
You need aggression down around 20 or 30. That helps alot. Following merchant ship TFs used to be pretty reliable, but sometimes even then aggressive TFs would react. This always occurred: (a) against orders; (b) in the least advantageous direction; (3) the least advantageous number of hexes; (4) out of range of the LRCAP you were counting on; (5) so far away from the critical amphibious TF your carriers were providing CAP for that the CAP no longer covered the key TF, which promptly got bombed to smithereens.

React is the single least desirable feature of AE - even worse than pilot training. But we're stuck with it.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1810
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/18/2013 2:58:31 AM   
Dora09

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 1/11/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

That is strange your slowest one went farthest. Were all the reaction distances the same? I know that as you say these things just happen. I apologize for asking further, I just think it natural for us to look for a clear reason as to why there are these anomalies. I know it sucks for you in this case, (believe me they have happened to me) but in a way it is nice that there is an element of unpredictability and chaos built in (intended or not) because I feel it helps mimic that which existed in the actual war (luck and human error). I am currently in a game that has been going right along with yours. In fact for a long time I was 4-5 months behind you but then when you had that slow down I caught up and now I am a week out from Jan 45. I am not in as good a position as you but still hanging in there and making a good fight of it.

In mid 44 I had a big carrier dual in which my entire kb air force flew right over my opponents CVs and attacked CVEs behind it. The result is that in our game I have sunk close to 30 CVEs but only have sunk 2 CVs and a few CVLs all game!! It was infuriating at the time to watch multiple large strikes fly right over the "real target". I ended up losing 3 CVs and 2 CVLs in that clash.

Anyways, good luck. Your AAR has been a guide for me through most of my game, now that I am ahead of you I feel that I am flying blind a bit (please forgive the pun).


The map above should give an idea what happened in the end, but get no closer to understanding why.

I think the reaction toggle should work absolutely. In a game with so many variables to have the MOST important element, CVs, survive or sink based on a calculator somewhere deciding if they react in spite of orders is ludicrous. It makes what is a really good game into a mediocre game. I don't just feel this about the IJN side, but it can impact the Allies just as severely, especially early.

In this situation there is no need to react as all targets are in range. The reaction is meant to get ships to engage.

In your game I'd be pretty happy about those 30 CVEs. Nice job!



I know, the reaction setting is useless. I haven't even be able to use it effectively for surface combat TF protecting bases.

Also those 30 are over the course of the entire game. I can't remember how many I got in that engagement but it was probably somewhere around 10. The strange thing is that this whole game my naval aviators just love going after CVEs rather than CVs. I have never seen anything like it. I'm sure it is pure chance but it has happened over several carrier battles. I figure 4-5 CVEs are worth 1 CV so with 30 I guess I can say it is like sinking maybe 6-7 CVs but it just doesn't feel the same, especially when I know those CVs are out there.


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1811
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/18/2013 3:35:12 AM   
jrcar

 

Posts: 3613
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From: Seymour, Australia
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Bugger :(



_____________________________

AE BETA Breaker

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Post #: 1812
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/18/2013 6:39:13 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6479
Joined: 3/18/2011
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to be sure my CVTFs end up where i want them to i usually set full speed mode for the striking turn. If you have 10 hexes to travel, the mission speed just won't assure you that all your CVs would do that.
On the contrary, at full speed you can more or less be 100% sure that they can travel 10 hexes in 2 phases (night and day).
Another good thing to do is to have your CVTFs following a SCTF...but Always using full speed mode imho.
If they react...well, there's nothing you can do about it :-(

Sorry mate

(in reply to jrcar)
Post #: 1813
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/18/2013 7:47:22 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

to be sure my CVTFs end up where i want them to i usually set full speed mode for the striking turn. If you have 10 hexes to travel, the mission speed just won't assure you that all your CVs would do that.
On the contrary, at full speed you can more or less be 100% sure that they can travel 10 hexes in 2 phases (night and day).
Another good thing to do is to have your CVTFs following a SCTF...but Always using full speed mode imho.
If they react...well, there's nothing you can do about it :-(

Sorry mate


Yeah, flank would probably have assured all went to the area, but then who knows if more would have reacted closer. It's odd that so many did not even go in the right direction. Maybe they also reacted in some strange way from their previous path.

Anyway, it's not total disaster, but the air groups too are shot. Mostly airframes as strangely a lot of pilots were saved from the subs around. I may have to revert for a bit to the A6M5 for the KB and go to the A6M2 for some escort groups.

_____________________________


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Post #: 1814
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/18/2013 1:17:07 PM   
Captain Cruft


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From: England
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If you didn't actually see any messages (early on in the night or day phase) about the CV TFs reacting then they didn't. It might be something else like relative speeds or lack of op points.

My more general point would be why use carriers when you have loads of airfields available anyway?

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1815
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/18/2013 5:23:17 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

If you didn't actually see any messages (early on in the night or day phase) about the CV TFs reacting then they didn't. It might be something else like relative speeds or lack of op points.

My more general point would be why use carriers when you have loads of airfields available anyway?


I was a bit too eager and fast forwarding through messages. I might watch in again in a day of two to see what was going on.

CVs might be vulnerable but they also ofer the best chance of getting some kind of large coordinated strike in my experience. My LBA was all on and went for other targets, trying to hit either shipping at Morotai or at Menado. I would have loved to sink some APA but the slow BB targeted by all of my best Grace DB was a complete waste. To use LBA effectively against targets at sea you need a lot of support to get a better chance of a combined strike with the new beta. I'm setting up some areas like this in Manila/Clark and on Formosa, at Balikpapan and some other spots. It's a new world where the kind of massed strikes rader used against GJ most likely won't happen. I'll try to get 200 escorts with 200 strike planes to fly together, and that is my hope.

On this day though LBA was not a factor because it 'chose' to go for the wrong target.

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/19/2013 4:42:01 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1816
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/18/2013 6:22:46 PM   
Captain Cruft


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From: England
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OK fair enough.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1817
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/19/2013 2:17:11 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
4 - 6 August 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

S/SW PAC: All CVs get away from air strike range but still must make it back to Manila, then the HI> luckily the subs in the area have been greatly reduced lately and we got one or two more these three days.

It looks like Jocke sent out some SAGs to hunt for the wounded but he retired his CV fleet back to Morotai almost immediately. Are they more damaged than I'd thought? At any rate, our strike power is limited right now, so that was a boon for us. He could have moved up near Jolo and wiped out 3 CVs for likely no loss to his own fleet. I've got Frances still turned on a Manila but the rest are trying to get back in fighting condition. My DBs will be back up first, then the TBs. The fighters will simply up-or-downgrade. Pilots are fine. I didn't lose many surprisingly as most of the fighting was over my bases on the 3rd.

Jocke takes Sangi by para-assault. This'll give him a sweeping base soon in range of Mindanao.

The Allies attacked at Manado, getting a horrific 1:4, disabling almost 250 squads for them. Nice. They also shocked at Sidate after a promising DA earlier, but the shock came off 1:2 and lost 1/2 of the tanks disabled. So in spite of the CV losses, the ground troops are looking good here.

At Talaud-eilanden a DA got a 1:2 with even losses for both sides, favoring the Allies, but not lowering the level 5 forts. I'll try to get more in here i nthe next week, but I've got to fly it out of Vanaimo first, so it might not be in time.

SUBS: No contacts with the Allied fleet passing directly over 4-5 subs. Too bad. Took out a few more subs in the Sulu Sea. At least one confirmed as the brand new RO-50 hit the Rasher with a spread of two from 2k. It had been lit up for days and hit by ASW a few days before. Another free shot at a sub too long in one place. At this rate, 2-3 subs sunk per week, we're most likely beating out new production!

There are two more easy targets in the shallows waiting for my cripples and I've sent three ASW TFs plus some minelayers since it's a base hex, just outside Manila harbor.

NORTH PACIFIC: It's August now. Three more months until the winter. He could still make a play up here pretty easily, and I occasionally see a TF at Chirikof Island, but there is no effort to stop my daily bombing of the port at Dutch, which should be inhibiting any efforts to build a field there. I'm guessing he'll let this go until 45, thinking that perhaps it's just as useful not to attack and keep my forces waiting for him instead of elsewhere. Truthfully there is nothing up here!

S DEI: Still no sign of loading troops. I'm moving my ships back a bit so no quick dart from the Molluccas catches them with their pants down. Sitting off Lomblen.

BURMA: Jocke continues to bomb fields, but supply has moved from Bangkok and all troops are flush for now. More is on the way, a steady trickle now of about 20k every week. He tried some bombardments again with little success. He did open the hex side toward Meiktila so he can walk out quickly and try something else if he'd like to, but instead he looks to be moving at least one more unit in! About 2k AV has left the theatre as well as most air support. It's heading to the PI and I'll get some air bases ready at Saigon and Cam Rahn Bay for the inevitable breakthrough into the South China Sea.

Jocke still has a huge amount of air forces here, and that is good for me. All they are doing is hitting empty airfields and taking losses to flak and ops. He'll go for Bangkok at some point, but that still has some 240 Franks defending, and it's a long reach so he'll suffer for it. One mistake he's made in this theatre is not hitting rear bases occasionally to slow fort building. Everything is getting near level 6.

CENTRAL PACFIC: Nothing new here. Just bombing Tinian. At some point he'll have to resupply, right? At that point he'll either have to bring it all or risk being vulnerable.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR August 4, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Sangi at 77,96, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ML G-201, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
ML G-209, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
ML G-211, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
ML G-213, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
ML G-302, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
ML G-304, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
ML G-305, Shell hits 1, and is sunk


Allied Ships
DD Fletcher
DD Charles Ausburne
DD Beale
DD Schroeder
DD Trathen
DD Monssen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Talaud-eilanden at 79,97

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
BB California
BB Arizona
BB Nevada
BB Maryland
DD Stevens
DD Stembel
DD Sproston
DD Sigsbee
DD Sigourney
DD Norman Scott
DD John Rodgers
DD Remey

Japanese ground losses:
69 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 19
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 24
Port hits 5

OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB California
BB California firing at Talaud-eilanden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 37
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 2
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 32
Ki-67-Ia Peggy x 12
Ki-84a Frank x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 19 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 7 damaged
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-67-Ia Peggy bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 5
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 11
Ki-84a Frank x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 7 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Ambon at 76,109

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 23 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 16
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 8

Allied aircraft
SBD-5 Dauntless x 2
TBM-1C Avenger x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Sidate (75,100)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 731 troops, 0 guns, 102 vehicles, Assault Value = 73

Defending force 5058 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 188

Allied adjusted assault: 58

Japanese adjusted defense: 112

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
449 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion

Defending units:
74th Infantry Regiment
56th Naval Guard Unit
3rd FF Const Unit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Sangi (77,97)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 245 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 22

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied adjusted assault: 3

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Sangi !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: op mode(-), shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
503rd Parachute Rgt /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR August 5, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 28
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 3
Ki-67-Ia Peggy x 12
Ki-84a Frank x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 2 damaged
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 10 damaged
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-67-Ia Peggy bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 22
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 29
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 10 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Talaud-eilanden (79,97)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 19864 troops, 328 guns, 649 vehicles, Assault Value = 818

Defending force 12237 troops, 130 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 431

Allied adjusted assault: 457

Japanese adjusted defense: 1089

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1783 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 130 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 25 (3 destroyed, 22 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1013 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 105 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 70 disabled
Guns lost 26 (1 destroyed, 25 disabled)
Vehicles lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)


Assaulting units:
24th Infantry Division
102nd Combat Engineer Regiment
754th Tank Battalion
I Corps Cmbt Engineer Regiment
5th USMC Tank Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
33rd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
38th Ind.Mixed Brigade
49th Infantry Regiment
54th Ind.Mixed Brigade
90th Naval Guard Unit
14th Naval Guard Unit
28th JAAF AF Bn
1st Mobile Bde /3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Manado (75,99)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18303 troops, 497 guns, 329 vehicles, Assault Value = 764

Defending force 24050 troops, 262 guns, 39 vehicles, Assault Value = 699

Allied adjusted assault: 140

Japanese adjusted defense: 695

Allied assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
481 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 52 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2067 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 296 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 31 disabled
Guns lost 84 (7 destroyed, 77 disabled)
Vehicles lost 28 (2 destroyed, 26 disabled)


Assaulting units:
93rd Infantry Division
40th Infantry Division
148th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
80th Infantry Brigade
78th Infantry Brigade
2nd Ind.Infantry Brigade
109th Division
103rd AA Regiment
37th Ind. Engineer Regiment
Gohoku JNAF Base Force
44th IMB Artillery Battalion
51st Base Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 55,51 (near Prome)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 117689 troops, 1581 guns, 608 vehicles, Assault Value = 4926

Defending force 115296 troops, 1514 guns, 2289 vehicles, Assault Value = 3988

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
434 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 47 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 18 (4 destroyed, 14 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Kiriwina Island (102,131)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 10 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 31

Defending force 1815 troops, 10 guns, 87 vehicles, Assault Value = 12

Assault collapses, survivors seek cover

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Units destroyed 1 ??

Assaulting units:
2nd Fiji Commando Battalion
2nd Fiji Commando Bn /2

Defending units:
51st JNAF AF Unit
8th Area Army /1
22nd Ind. Engr Rgt /1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR August 6, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASW attack near Morotai at 80,101

Japanese Ships
SS I-37, hits 16, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Warrington
CLAA Oakland
CLAA San Diego
DD Lardner
DD Aylwin
DD Dewey
DD Patterson
DD Henley

SS I-37 launches 6 torpedoes at DD Warrington
I-37 bottoming out ....
DD Aylwin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Aylwin attacking submerged sub ....
DD Aylwin fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub vs Sub: SS RO-50 attacking SS Rasher at 77,83 - near San Jose

Japanese Ships
SS RO-50

Allied Ships
SS Rasher, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

SS RO-50 launches 2 torpedoes at 2,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 47,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 30
N1K2-J George x 36
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 1
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 21

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 4 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 24
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 18
Ki-67-Ia Peggy x 13
Ki-84a Frank x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 13 damaged
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 5 damaged
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-67-Ia Peggy bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toungoo , at 57,50

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.III x 14
Liberator B.VI x 14
B-17F Fortress x 12
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 14
B-24J Liberator x 103
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 79
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 162

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 74th Infantry Regiment, at 75,100 (Sidate)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 10
B-24D Liberator x 11
B-24D1 Liberator x 9
B-24J Liberator x 30

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
95 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 26
N1K2-J George x 36
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 1
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 12

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 71

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 3 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 5 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 43,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 18
N1K2-J George x 21
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 8

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 3 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Sidate (75,100)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 695 troops, 0 guns, 102 vehicles, Assault Value = 67

Defending force 4626 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 148

Allied adjusted assault: 14

Japanese adjusted defense: 46

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
80 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 38 (1 destroyed, 37 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion

Defending units:
74th Infantry Regiment
56th Naval Guard Unit
3rd FF Const Unit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Rossel Island (105,137)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1284 troops, 34 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 55

Defending force 668 troops, 0 guns, 93 vehicles, Assault Value = 53

Allied adjusted assault: 14

Japanese adjusted defense: 195

Allied assault odds: 1 to 13 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), morale(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Allied ground losses:
213 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Assaulting units:
N Force Detachment

Defending units:
19th Tank Regiment
3rd JNAF AF Unit /1
44th Road Const Co /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: My overly expensive recon plane moves ahead one month.

ML G-326 arrives at Yokohama/Yokosuka
104th AA Regiment arrives at Tokyo
MTB G-349 arrives at Shimizu
MTB G-350 arrives at Nagoya
52nd Naval Guard Unit arrives at Tokyo
E Daito arrives at Tokyo
LST T-139 arrives at Hirosaki/Aomori

Aircraft Ki-95 advances R&D (8/45)


Losses:

Loss of ML G-201 on Aug 04, 1944 is admitted
Loss of ML G-209 on Aug 04, 1944 is admitted
Loss of ML G-211 on Aug 04, 1944 is admitted
Loss of ML G-213 on Aug 04, 1944 is admitted
Loss of ML G-302 on Aug 04, 1944 is admitted
Loss of ML G-304 on Aug 04, 1944 is admitted
Loss of ML G-305 on Aug 04, 1944 is admitted


Ships Sunk:

Previous report of sinking of SS Tuna incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
SS KIX is reported to have been sunk near Truk on Apr 27, 1944
Previous report of sinking of SS Muskallunge incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
LST-28 is reported to have been sunk near Sarmi on May 06, 1944
SS Rasher is reported to have been sunk near San Jose on Aug 06, 1944

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As shown here from the day after the CV clash, a lot of ships were sitting ducks had there been a pursuit. I've now also had to route them around sub patrols and they're heading up toward Manila. I may assess the state of them a few hexes out and keep the CVs heading up to the HI to repair. There are no subs in the main channels right now and it might be as good a time as any to do that. If so I'll send them toward China to be close to bases just in case something starts to go badly.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/19/2013 4:37:52 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 1818
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/20/2013 8:27:01 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
AIR GROUPS
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

During July about 1/3 of IJNAF air groups withdrew. This was inevitably very bad timing. Most of my LBA strikes during his invasion of Manado were short fighter escorts and I could really have used a few more TB groups heading out of Balikpapan and Mindanao. I've taken away most IJN fighter training groups for now to get them into combat, relying on incoming groups to become training groups as they are mostly restricted anyway, and training some fighter pilots in FP groups.

As a result of this and during an unusually quiet few days in game, I thought I'd look through and begin to re-organize air groups to maximize what I can do. The lists below show what is available. Most of the IJN has been moved out of CBI and there is just a holding force of IJAAF fighters there now with the ability soon to throw some Peggy (T) groups in should there be any moves on the water.

I will think about the defense of the PI and Borneo in a slightly different way to previous areas. This is about nodes that can themselves produce a strike that could penetrate a CV CAP to do some damage. The issue with the LBA during the Celebes Sea battle was not allowing enough fighters to punch through. With this in mind each node will have a big central base surrounded by smaller bases capable of hosting fighters. Most bombers and some escort should come out of the central level 8-9 base, providing a strike of 200 fighters and 200 bombers if most coordinate. A big if. I'll try to maximize HQ support and supply, make sure leaders are top notch, and get good sightings on everything with my perpetually sacrificial Jakes.

As GJ showed recently it only takes one big strike to give the Allies a rather big problem. If 3-4 get crushed, but one every few months gets through to nail a few CVs, then I'm doing my job.

The remaining KB, a core of 6 Unryus with Hiryu, Taiho, CVL Ryuho, and a CAP TF of 3 CVE led by the slower CVL Mizuho (still about 600-650 planes) will attempt to play a part but I won't force it. If it remains out of range, fine, I'll try again. I just don't want them to end up TOO close again and all in parts. At least now I'll have fewer TFs. I'll stay in the shadows and pop just far enough that a long strike might catch something.

Here are the fighter groups currently. A lot still sorting out and reforming after the CV clash. IJN feels like a mess, and I really have to get into order quickly now.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/20/2013 8:32:21 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1819
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 12:39:31 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
7 - 8 August 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: A few more subs hit, but no likely sinking. The cripples have managed to avoid the 2-3 subs nearby so far. I do plan to keep Kaga/Akagi/Yamato heading to the shipyards at Hiroshima/Kure where the Combined fleet is based and the largest repair yard on the map (for the IJN anyway).

A lot of subs are now fitted with radar. I wonder if this will make a big difference?

SS RO-42 beginning refit in shipyard at Manila
SS RO-109 beginning refit while under repair in shipyard at Manila


S/SW PAC: A quieter few days than the previous week. Jocke seems to be getting some logistics taken care of and building new bases in the Moluccas. He did sweep Manado with Hellcats and Spit VII, wiping the base clean at a 3:1 ratio. The Tonys were abysmal, losing half of a fresh group of mostly 65-80 exp pilots. There was no radar detection in spite of 4 x two different kinds of radar in the base. Oh, well. Not much to do but lick wounds and try not to trip over our tail as we slink back to the rear with what is left.

S DEI: Something mysterious is happening here. All units are on alert. According to recon 100k troops have left Darwin. I see no transports nearby, just the usual LST/LSI plus SAGs at the base. I brought in a group of Emilys to have a look around. Most of the combat troops have been moved off forward bases and now I'm working on the last few and the engineers. I'll add them to the Celebes, Timor and bases between.

BURMA: Not much going on here. I'm bringing more troops back from the 51, 55 stack, leaving about 3200AV there of dug in troops agains the 4500AV of the Allies, mostly Indian and Chinese divisions. Two tank divisions will form the area reserve and two tank regiments plus two smaller 160AV Independent brigades will traverse the yellow road toward Pisanoluke, forming the first element of rear defense there and fortifying areas left by the Thais now vulnerable to the kind of paradrop the allies could send.

CENTRAL PACFIC: Still picking up a few odds and ends and filling out units that have been without their radars and arty for a while. The CD guns at Guam will have another 20cm gun soon, and the last should be picked up within the week from Ndeni if unmolested. While silly, some of these small reunifications of fragmented units could actually make certain bases much tougher later.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR August 7, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Iloilo at 79,84

Japanese Ships
AK Naruto Maru
E Kyosai

Allied Ships
SS Devilfish, hits 4

SS Devilfish launches 2 torpedoes at AK Naruto Maru
E Kyosai attacking submerged sub ....
E Kyosai fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 21
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 29
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 12
Ki-84a Frank x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 7 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 74th Infantry Regiment, at 75,100 (Sidate)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 8
B-24D Liberator x 10
B-24D1 Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 13
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 29
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 12 damaged

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR August 8, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 41,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 17
N1K2-J George x 17
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 33
Ki-61-Id Tony x 46

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 7 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x F6F-3 Hellcat sweeping at 38000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 42,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 15
N1K2-J George x 14
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 26
Ki-61-Id Tony x 30

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 1 destroyed


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x F6F-3 Hellcat sweeping at 38000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 42,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 11
N1K2-J George x 12
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 22
Ki-61-Id Tony x 22

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 39

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 2 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 3 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 4 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x F6F-3 Hellcat sweeping at 38000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 6
N1K2-J George x 8
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 12
Ki-61-Id Tony x 8

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Spitfire VIII sweeping at 31000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 20 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 3
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 4
Ki-61-Id Tony x 5

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Spitfire VIII sweeping at 31000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

E No.29 arrives at Tokyo
MTB G-882 arrives at Sapporo
MTB G-351 arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
MTB G-352 arrives at Kobe


Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

PT-282 is reported to have been sunk near Biak on Jun 23, 1944
Previous report of sinking of SS Guardfish incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, in it's first test against sweeps the Tony Ki-61 Id crapped the bed. Not a good outing. Luckily over our base, so most pilots are fine. This plane should be better than the Tojo, definitely against bombers, but even against fighters with it's very accurate 20mm canons. I now am about to switch over completely from the Tojo to the Tony line for my service 1 fighter. If the Ki-100 can't do any better than the Id then this may be an expensive rear area bomber killer. I'll have to play around with layers and what works best for a varied CAP.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/22/2013 2:08:47 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1820
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 12:17:16 PM   
Dora09

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline
Interesting looking at your Ki61d results. As I have mentioned before, I have always felt that the Ki61 feels a little too weak in this game. Not that it should be great but it just seems a little off to me. I had initially planned to not build it in my game but I ended up building quite a few Ki61 Ic and now am making Ki61 II KAI. The Ki61 II KAI has not really been tested yet so I am not sure how it will do. Ki61 Ic has been okay but not spectacular. The bulk of my IJAAF fighters are Ki84 and Ki44 IIc. I had also planned to build only Ki84 once it came on line but I ended up building Ki44 IIc and I have to tell you I am very glad I did. In my game the Ki44 IIc has been hands down my best fighter. Even better than Ki84 Ia, definitely better than Ki61 I series. I have found that the Ki44 IIc is great against fighters and bombers alike. What is surprising is that I have a better kill ratio with Ki44 IIc than Ki84 Ia. Did not expect that. I still produce a majority Ki84 because the stats are so much better (and it is a great plane) but I would have to say that Ki44 IIc has exceeded expectations while the Ki61 continues to be largely a disappointment.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1821
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 12:35:39 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

Interesting looking at your Ki61d results. As I have mentioned before, I have always felt that the Ki61 feels a little too weak in this game. Not that it should be great but it just seems a little off to me. I had initially planned to not build it in my game but I ended up building quite a few Ki61 Ic and now am making Ki61 II KAI. The Ki61 II KAI has not really been tested yet so I am not sure how it will do. Ki61 Ic has been okay but not spectacular. The bulk of my IJAAF fighters are Ki84 and Ki44 IIc. I had also planned to build only Ki84 once it came on line but I ended up building Ki44 IIc and I have to tell you I am very glad I did. In my game the Ki44 IIc has been hands down my best fighter. Even better than Ki84 Ia, definitely better than Ki61 I series. I have found that the Ki44 IIc is great against fighters and bombers alike. What is surprising is that I have a better kill ratio with Ki44 IIc than Ki84 Ia. Did not expect that. I still produce a majority Ki84 because the stats are so much better (and it is a great plane) but I would have to say that Ki44 IIc has exceeded expectations while the Ki61 continues to be largely a disappointment.


Maybe it's down to how you use the Ki-44 IIc. What kind of CAP do you usually fly and where do you put it? I've tried all kinds of things but can't touch his strato-sweeps. We also have the 2nd best maneuver HR, so none of these can go over 31k and the Tony is restricted to 20k! I think the Ki-100 goes to 31k though.

Very curious about your Tojos amine were great until about early 44 then a massive drop-off in terms of how they performed, mostly due to the new P-47s I think and the proliferation of Corsairs and Spit VIII. Jocke doesn't ever even fly the crap Allied planes, so I only see the best.

Let me know if you have ideas of how to maximize these fighters into 45. I've still not quite got it down I don't think, but maybe it's a combo of his choices, our rules and my CAP settings.



< Message edited by obvert -- 6/22/2013 12:36:08 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Dora09)
Post #: 1822
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 2:56:17 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
9 - 10 August 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: Another sub crippled but not sunk near Morotai. The Kaga/Akagi/Yamato are now out of danger from the subs around the PI and heading through the straits onto Japan, 4-5 hexes a day.

STRAT BOMBING: A particularly nasty encounter happened over Medan on the night of the 9th. The B-29s arrived at their usual 9k and were met by not the usual one but three groups of Irving-S NF. A total of 39 NF were up for the first wave of 25 B-29s. While I would have thought this might lead to some good kill ratios it instead resulted in a total of 17 (!!) NF lost for about 5-6 B-29s on the night in total. That still seems a bit extreme to me. I could see an 8-10% loss ratio for the B-29s in a very long range and highly contested mission with a lot of fighters up, radar detection and flak, but 17 night-fighters? I'll take any losses to B-29s however I can get them, but that is about 75% of my monthly production so the pools are now shot after replacing units in these groups. In reality the Irving would have had a hard time catching the B-29s anyway, so it's probably lucky to get this many downed.

S/SW PAC: Jocke tries a big strike on Babeldaob field and port. I'm glad he split it between them or this could have been bad. As it is he disabled a good portion of the transport planes here, but our one George group on CAP took a big chunk out of the 4E groups that came in. Looks like 15-20 downed on the day. I had another group still set on escort. If that had been on CAP as well, ouch. Kicking myself about that one. If he tries for another go it won't be pretty, as the base is open and about 100 Jacks and Georges will be up.

Looks like something more brewing by the number of ships around the Moluccas. I'm not quite ready to contest anything after the last one, but within a week it'll all be as ready as I can get it.

S DEI: A bunch of troops seem to have left Darwin, and judging by the ships leaving the area to the SE, I'm thinking he's canceling a move North into the DEI and swinging them around to Cent Pac or toward the PI. Since I'm getting most troops out of SE DEI bases he may be also moving them around toward New Guinea and then up to avoid detection. We'll see.

BURMA: Jocke's moving a few units into the area just behind Toungoo on the rails. I've bumped up the supply requirement to the base and prepared to send in a tank division to aid the brigade there now. Don't need any troops cut off while being attacked by 6k AV. Should be fine as he isn't bringing much according to recon, but that's been wrong before, so I'm making sure I've got a back-up plan. Extra supply and another tank division ready to move in.

CENTRAL PACFIC: Some needed supply drops heading into the Marianas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR August 9, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Medan , at 46,76

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 39

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged

Oil hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
302 Ku S-2 with J1N1-S Irving (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 1 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
S-804 Hikotai with J1N1-S Irving (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 1 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 57 minutes
S-902 Hikotai with J1N1-S Irving (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Medan , at 46,76

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 4

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged


Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
302 Ku S-2 with J1N1-S Irving (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead
S-902 Hikotai with J1N1-S Irving (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 45
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 29
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 9
Ki-67-Ia Peggy x 15
Ki-84a Frank x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 6 damaged
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 6 damaged

Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-67-Ia Peggy bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 13
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 12
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 7
Ki-84a Frank x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 2 damaged

Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 9 damaged

Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 21
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 4 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 27

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 12
B-24J Liberator x 6
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 destroyed
B-24D1 Liberator: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged


Japanese Ships
AKE Irako, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
AS Rio de Janiero Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AR Kikukawa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
1 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
1 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
582 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 16 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes

Massive explosion on AKE Irako

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 50 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 15

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 5
B-24D Liberator x 8
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed
B-24D1 Liberator: 3 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
AS Rio de Janiero Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS RO-103, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS I-169, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 6

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Haruno Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 3

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
AG Hayasaki, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 10

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x P-38J Lightning sweeping at 31000 feet

CAP engaged:
582 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 6 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 27000 and 35300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 5

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 damaged
H8K2 Emily: 1 destroyed on ground
H8K2-L Emily: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-49-II KAI Helen: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 7
Runway hits 38

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 5

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 5 damaged
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed on ground
H8K2-L Emily: 1 destroyed on ground
P1Y2 Frances: 2 destroyed on ground
H8K2 Emily: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-49-II KAI Helen: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 18
Runway hits 29

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 54 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 5

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 4 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed on ground
H8K2 Emily: 1 destroyed on ground
H8K2-L Emily: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 5

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K2-L Emily: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-49-II KAI Helen: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 6 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Babeldaob , at 90,97

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 32 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 5

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x P-38J Lightning sweeping at 31000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Talaud-eilanden (79,97)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1125 troops, 92 guns, 85 vehicles, Assault Value = 749

Defending force 11425 troops, 139 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 330

Assaulting units:
24th Infantry Division
I Corps Cmbt Engineer Regiment
754th Tank Battalion
102nd Combat Engineer Regiment
5th USMC Tank Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
33rd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
49th Infantry Regiment
14th Naval Guard Unit
90th Naval Guard Unit
38th Ind.Mixed Brigade
54th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Maizuru 1st SNLF /3
28th JAAF AF Bn
1st Mobile Bde /3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR August 10, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASW attack near Morotai at 80,100

Japanese Ships
SS I-16, hits 14, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DE Greenwood
DE Lovelace
DE Loeser

SS I-16 is located by DE Greenwood
DE Lovelace fails to find sub and abandons search
DE Loeser fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Loeser attacking submerged sub ....
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 23
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 4
Ki-67-Ia Peggy x 19
Ki-84a Frank x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 damaged
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 6 damaged

Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ki-67-Ia Peggy bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 29
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 4
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 11 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Runway hits 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 10
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 6 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 7 damaged

Runway hits 10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

DD Maki arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
SC CHa-87 arrives at Toyama
352 Ku S-1 arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
352 Ku S-2 arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
352 Ku S-3 arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
43rd Recon Regiment arrives at Tokyo
E No.38 arrives at Tokyo
62nd Construction Battalion arrives at Tokyo
28th JNAF AF Unit arrives at Tokyo


Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

SS Balao is reported to have been sunk near Taongi on Feb 26, 1944
HDML 1102 is reported to have been sunk near Diamond Harbour on Jun 24, 1944
Previous report of sinking of SS Tinosa incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is a current map of the contested area of the DEI. The white circles are bases I believe are in immediate danger from the Moluccas or OZ. The red squares are around HQa nodes. The red dotted line is the distance of air strikes I may use to contest any landings in the near future. I've placed a white square where I think the KB could be effective hitting landings on Mindanao.

Transports are moving troops along the red arrows in the SE DEI.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/22/2013 3:01:46 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1823
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 3:00:38 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5925
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

Interesting looking at your Ki61d results. As I have mentioned before, I have always felt that the Ki61 feels a little too weak in this game. Not that it should be great but it just seems a little off to me. I had initially planned to not build it in my game but I ended up building quite a few Ki61 Ic and now am making Ki61 II KAI. The Ki61 II KAI has not really been tested yet so I am not sure how it will do. Ki61 Ic has been okay but not spectacular. The bulk of my IJAAF fighters are Ki84 and Ki44 IIc. I had also planned to build only Ki84 once it came on line but I ended up building Ki44 IIc and I have to tell you I am very glad I did. In my game the Ki44 IIc has been hands down my best fighter. Even better than Ki84 Ia, definitely better than Ki61 I series. I have found that the Ki44 IIc is great against fighters and bombers alike. What is surprising is that I have a better kill ratio with Ki44 IIc than Ki84 Ia. Did not expect that. I still produce a majority Ki84 because the stats are so much better (and it is a great plane) but I would have to say that Ki44 IIc has exceeded expectations while the Ki61 continues to be largely a disappointment.


Maybe it's down to how you use the Ki-44 IIc. What kind of CAP do you usually fly and where do you put it? I've tried all kinds of things but can't touch his strato-sweeps. We also have the 2nd best maneuver HR, so none of these can go over 31k and the Tony is restricted to 20k! I think the Ki-100 goes to 31k though.

Very curious about your Tojos amine were great until about early 44 then a massive drop-off in terms of how they performed, mostly due to the new P-47s I think and the proliferation of Corsairs and Spit VIII. Jocke doesn't ever even fly the crap Allied planes, so I only see the best.

Let me know if you have ideas of how to maximize these fighters into 45. I've still not quite got it down I don't think, but maybe it's a combo of his choices, our rules and my CAP settings.



Obvert,

Your results are very much like mine. Tojo just can't compete against the 3rd Gen allied fighters, so as '44 wears on Tojo for me really drops off. Now, I still have to use Tojo anywhere I need an SR1 fighter as it is the best SR1 fighter you get. But, aside from that you have to upgrade to IJ 3rd gen fighters which have high SR's.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1824
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 3:12:28 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5925
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

A particularly nasty encounter happened over Medan on the night of the 9th. The B-29s arrived at their usual 9k and were met by not the usual one but three groups of Irving-S NF. A total of 39 NF were up for the first wave of 25 B-29s. While I would have thought this might lead to some good kill ratios it instead resulted in a total of 17 (!!) NF lost for about 5-6 B-29s on the night in total. That still seems a bit extreme to me. I could see an 8-10% loss ratio for the B-29s in a very long range and highly contested mission with a lot of fighters up, radar detection and flak, but 17 night-fighters? I'll take any losses to B-29s however I can get them, but that is about 75% of my monthly production so the pools are now shot after replacing units in these groups. In reality the Irving would have had a hard time catching the B-29s anyway, so it's probably lucky to get this many downed.

Again, this exactly mimics my testing results in Armageddon. I never found a way to stop 4E night bombing. They do not react the same way that 2E's do to fighters on night CAP. 4E pilots all become double and triple aces in my testing, and their bombing runs are massively destructive; not much different than day bombing results. I tested 1:1 NF:4E ratios all the way up to 6:1 ratios with little difference.


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1825
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 3:26:03 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

A particularly nasty encounter happened over Medan on the night of the 9th. The B-29s arrived at their usual 9k and were met by not the usual one but three groups of Irving-S NF. A total of 39 NF were up for the first wave of 25 B-29s. While I would have thought this might lead to some good kill ratios it instead resulted in a total of 17 (!!) NF lost for about 5-6 B-29s on the night in total. That still seems a bit extreme to me. I could see an 8-10% loss ratio for the B-29s in a very long range and highly contested mission with a lot of fighters up, radar detection and flak, but 17 night-fighters? I'll take any losses to B-29s however I can get them, but that is about 75% of my monthly production so the pools are now shot after replacing units in these groups. In reality the Irving would have had a hard time catching the B-29s anyway, so it's probably lucky to get this many downed.

Again, this exactly mimics my testing results in Armageddon. I never found a way to stop 4E night bombing. They do not react the same way that 2E's do to fighters on night CAP. 4E pilots all become double and triple aces in my testing, and their bombing runs are massively destructive; not much different than day bombing results. I tested 1:1 NF:4E ratios all the way up to 6:1 ratios with little difference.



Yeah, it's not great is it? In my game with Torsten we just made an agreement to limit them to 50 planes per target for night bombing, unless it's against manpower. They are way too accurate both against fighters and against their mission objective.

Against oil Jocke is doing well with these bombings, but it does take him a few runs to wipe out a bigger field like Medan. Losing 5 of those per run must not make him happy with a replace rate as low as it is. So as much as it's not perfect, I can live with this result and keep making more NF to fill in the losses.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1826
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 4:30:04 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5925
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
Yeah, but once wiped out it is permanent. Any player would willingly trade one month replacement to take out Medan. Ditto, Palembang, Osaka and Tokyo. These last two are the real issue. It only take a week to eliminate Osaka from the game. Sure, the allies lose 30 - 50 4E's and yes that is 2 months production. But in exchange, they just took out 25% of the IJ economy permanently.

I can't say whether this is historic or not. There isn't enough data to really argue it factually. B-29's absolutely did effective night bombing. Why they never carried it to the final conclusion you can in the game isn't known. And then they switched to escorted daylight bombing ... all the people who were involved in these decisions are long gone and the discussions were old school (verbal) without 50,000 email trails. So we are left with various author opinions, some tersely worded reports, but not much fact and absolutely no insight. Anyone who has written an official report understands the differences I am bringing up here. Reports tell what/who/where, sometimes how, but rarely why (particularly in this era).

But from a game play balance issue .... in a PBEM, HR's can address this. I would limit all 4E's except B-29's to a % moonlight value. B-29's I would prolly use your HR ... max number per target or something like that. Again, this isn't a reality balance; this is all about game play balance.

Good Luck. Watching how this all plays out with great interest. You're getting deep into the game ... one of the very few. CONGRATS!!!

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1827
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 5:33:46 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline
We have a HR which limits night bombing to Manpower. It's yet to be tested though.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1828
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 5:42:23 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5925
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
IJ secrets have been editted.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 6/22/2013 10:31:17 PM >


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Pax

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 1829
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 6/22/2013 10:11:01 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7516
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

MP strat bombing creates firestorms which destroy everything at a base. It is the single most effective strat bombing to do. I don't do any other except at a place like Medan where there are no MP centers of consequence to start a fire storm.

So, I'm not sure your HR is a limitation ... as you say, still to be tested.


Shhhhhhh. Jocke thinks it's not effective. Loose lips flatten factories.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1830
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