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RE: Wild Sheep Chase

 
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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/11/2013 6:33:52 PM   
GreyJoy


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Haven't you built a supporting AF for Rabaul? Green Island or the other dot base east of Rabaul? 550 fighters seems a bit too much...

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1411
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/11/2013 6:44:58 PM   
obvert


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Joined: 1/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Haven't you built a supporting AF for Rabaul? Green Island or the other dot base east of Rabaul? 550 fighters seems a bit too much...


It is too much!

Because of the only 250 air support needed for the level 9, the only place to put the majority of the stuff is at Rabaul. I have MORE units at Buka, Kaveing, Green Island and Namatami. It's a necessary evil right now as I have to make the base at least feel it is difficult to hit. One day it might be, the next day not as much in reality, as I learned at Rangoon. I'm being slightly more careful here though, setting the fighters at best altitude maneuver bands and on 0 hex range for CAP.

I also have the AA for the entire Solomons here! If he comes, it could be an unusually painful 4E strike!

This is not permanent. Soon many units will move up to N. New Guinea, to Manus, to Kaveing and some even back to Truk and further bases.

If you think mine's bad, Jocke has 350+ fighters and 600+ bombers (4E and 2E) and 500+ auxiliary at Port Moresby!

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1412
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/11/2013 6:47:48 PM   
GreyJoy


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aren't u using the latest patch that changes that rule about 250 AV support as a max level needed?

Defenetly you should arrange an HR for these overstackings....

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1413
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/11/2013 7:03:43 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

aren't u using the latest patch that changes that rule about 250 AV support as a max level needed?

Defenetly you should arrange an HR for these overstackings....


Jocke insisted he needs them, and that it was a problem when we upgraded to a recent beta patch previously. That was quite a while back though, in mid-43.

There were other problems for him with the patch in terms of coordination of bombing, etc. He felt with where the game was at the time, with the IJA having quite a strong position and with only a few available bases to get in range of New Guinea, that the overstacking was necessary and the coordination problem was too much of a hamstring to add in the middle of a game.

I started to prepare to do the overstacking soon after at Rabaul. It's not very real, but it serves both of our purposes for the time being.

At the time I proposed putting only 50 planes per field level on a base (starting at zero to account for floatplanes, and allowing minimal overstack). I would happily live with that. It would make my planning for multiple supporting bases more effective and purposeful. As it is, that doesn't really work, because once his level 9 Death Star base gets in range, they would get obliterated one by one. The only way to fight it is to stack up mine, at least make it seem as fearsome as possible, and wait until the last minute or until he wrecks it to move back and disperse.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/11/2013 7:05:09 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1414
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2013 3:56:43 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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7 - 9 February 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As i was about to update I realized I don't have the Feb 7 files. I'll go on regardless, as nothing major occurred that day and the next two were more interesting.

SUBS: The Scamp nailed an ASW SC near Luzon, sinking the little ship. The Bang (another great sub name!) hits a small tanker on the way to Truk and sinks it.

SOUTH PACIFIC: Well, I had to try something. Interesting timing though. I noticed 146 ships listed at Milne Bay, with 150+ fighters in base. I figured if that was 75 on CAP I might have a chance. I sent in ~200 2E, 50+ TB and 40 DB with good escorts, sweeps by 150+ Georges, Jacks and Franks. The bombers did get through, at some cost, but in spite of the recon showing lots of DD and big support ships in port, we hit mostly small fry. A few AKE damaged, a sub sunk. A few aces made.

The tally on the day was 180 planes lost to 20 for the Allies! Oh, well. It might have been better to strike with exactly the same package at the invasion landing at Umboi Island. He may have had more CAP, but we would have had TT and better targets, including CA/CL and some big transports. Instead another free shot putting one Marine Division on land. It likely would have been mostly off the ships by the day as I think it came from Finschafen.

We have a brigade and several smaller units there. Once slightly over 200 AV with 5 forts. Now 173 after all of the bombing and bombardments by sea. This won't hold long. I will pick a tiny piece of the Brigade if possible to send to Truk.

BURMA: More bombing. The troops near Toungoo look good though. He bombarded on the 9th and the bigger stack held well, knocking his vehicles and arty around a bit. The AV is now 4100 for the Allies and 3200 for us. I'm contemplating taking one more division out, but if he added a few himself, that might go over the stasis point. I'd like to stay at better odds than 1:2. The other smaller stack is close to that now. We have 2350 and growing from healed squads, he most recently had about 3300 AV, but has added something since. All of our units now have forts except new arty added to the smaller force.

CENTRAL PACFIC: Well, sooner than I had intended I've made a choice. There is no point having bases out in the Gilberts and Marshalls at 200-300 AV now. Not with the full focus of Allied intent being channeled into New Guinea and Burma. I'm sending in the transports and within a few weeks many of these garrisons will be back-filling NW New Guinea and into the Celebes, into the Carolines and Marianas. I'll leave one naval Guard on each island. Still not a simple proposition without some work with level 6 forts. If he uses troops and fleet assets here now though that would be a plus, just not for about a month while I get some work done.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 8, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on TF, near Finschhafen at 100,126

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 11

Allied aircraft
F4U-2 Corsair x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 7 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CL Helena
APA Wharton
APA Fuller
DD Frazier

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF(N)-75 with F4U-2 Corsair (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 2000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes

Some CAP have air radar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Laoag at 80,71

Japanese Ships
SC Ch 44, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
E W-6

Allied Ships
SS Scamp, hits 4

SS Scamp launches 2 torpedoes at SC Ch 44
E W-6 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E W-6 attacking submerged sub ....
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 30th Recon Regiment, at 100,125 (Umboi Island)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 19
B-17E Fortress x 19
B-24D Liberator x 8
B-24D1 Liberator x 85
B-24J Liberator x 49
B-25C Mitchell x 55
B-25D1 Mitchell x 98
F6F-3 Hellcat x 45
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 30

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Tank Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 12
Blenheim VD x 12
Liberator II x 15
Liberator B.III x 15
Liberator GR.III x 23
Wellington Ic x 12
Wellington B.X x 11
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 24
B-24D1 Liberator x 41
B-24J Liberator x 92
B-25C Mitchell x 47
B-26 Marauder x 11
B-26B Marauder x 12

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 1 damaged
Liberator GR.III: 1 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
193 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 9, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Ulithi at 99,95

Japanese Ships
TK Katsukawa Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Keijo Maru
PB Banshu Maru #56
SC Ch 27
TK Daijo Maru
TK Seiwa Maru
TK Bushu Maru
xAK Chowa Maru
xAKL Junpo Maru
xAKL Fukuyo Maru
PB Nanrei Maru
PB Kohuku Maru
PB Kenkon Maru

Allied Ships
SS Bang

SS Bang launches 4 torpedoes at TK Katsukawa Maru
Bang diving deep ....
PB Nanrei Maru fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Kohuku Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Umboi Island (100,125)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

44 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL Honolulu
CL Helena
DD Frazier
DD Caldwell
APA Barnett
APA William P. Biddle
DD McCalla

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

DD Caldwell firing at 21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
DD Frazier fired at enemy troops
DD Caldwell fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 5,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Umboi Island (100,125)

TF 312 troops unloading over beach at Umboi Island, 100,125

Allied ground losses:
56 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)

37mm M3 AT Gun accidentally lost during unload of 1st Marine Div /15

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Umboi Island (100,125)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

28 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL Honolulu
CL Helena
DD Frazier
DD Caldwell
DD Nicholson
APA Barnett

Allied ground losses:
30 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

CL Helena firing at 21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
DD Nicholson firing at 21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
DD Caldwell fired at enemy troops
DD Nicholson fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 5,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Milne Bay , at 101,133

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 10 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 27



Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 16
F4U-1 Corsair x 18
F4U-1A Corsair x 35
F6F-3 Hellcat x 56


Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 11 destroyed

No Allied losses



CAP engaged:
VRF-1F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 18 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VRF-3F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 14 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
VMF-212 with F4U-1 Corsair (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 11 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
VMF-222 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 8 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VMF-311 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 11 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
No.54 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 8 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Milne Bay , at 101,133

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 147 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 38
N1K1-J George x 67

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 14
F4U-1 Corsair x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 34
F6F-3 Hellcat x 55

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 5 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 4 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
43 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 20000 feet
16 x J2M3 Jack sweeping at 20000 feet
15 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 20000 feet *
3 x J2M3 Jack sweeping at 20000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Milne Bay , at 101,133

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 42 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
A6M3a Zero x 27
A6M5 Zero x 45
B5N2 Kate x 12
B6N2 Jill x 24
G4M1 Betty x 82
J2M2 Jack x 35
N1K1 Rex x 9
P1Y1 Frances x 21
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 11

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 14
F4U-1 Corsair x 16
F4U-1A Corsair x 29
F6F-3 Hellcat x 49

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 4 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 6 destroyed

B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 11 destroyed, 22 damaged
J2M2 Jack: 4 destroyed
N1K1 Rex: 3 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
P1Y1 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak


No Allied losses

Allied Ships
LCM 592B, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AE Lassen, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
PT-179, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PT-183, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

AKE Nisqually, Bomb hits 1
SS Flasher, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AKE City of Dalhart, Bomb hits 1
LCM 533C, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Le Triomphant, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AKE Potter, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
31 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
5 x B6N2 Jill bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
13 x P1Y1 Frances bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
17 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
12 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
12 x B6N2 Jill bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
1 x P1Y1 Frances bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Milne Bay , at 101,133

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 192 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 47 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 66

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 5
F4U-1 Corsair x 11
F4U-1A Corsair x 21
F6F-3 Hellcat x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
38 x Ki-84a Frank sweeping at 31000 feet *
14 x Ki-84a Frank sweeping at 31000 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 9th Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 12
Blenheim VD x 12
Liberator II x 3
Liberator B.III x 12
Liberator GR.III x 14
Wellington Ic x 12
Wellington GR.VIII x 11
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 37
B-24J Liberator x 96
B-25C Mitchell x 23
B-26 Marauder x 11
B-26B Marauder x 12

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
65 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 56,49 (near Toungoo)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2430 troops, 168 guns, 178 vehicles, Assault Value = 4152

Defending force 102043 troops, 1411 guns, 740 vehicles, Assault Value = 3257

Japanese ground losses:
54 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 23 (4 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Vehicles lost 14 (3 destroyed, 11 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Umboi Island (100,125)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4532 troops, 25 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 173

Defending force 11860 troops, 227 guns, 140 vehicles, Assault Value = 447

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
4th Raiding Regiment
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
30th Recon Regiment
58th Construction Battalion
51st JAAF AF Bn

Defending units:
1st Marine Division

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: The last two building CVs arrive!!! Their air groups are stunningly proficient. If only I could get some good fighters for them! The closest A7M Sam factory is at 29 (1) and dangling there, just mocking me.

As mentioned above these brigades are heading to Burma.

17th Sentai arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
18th Sentai arrives at Tokyo
19th Sentai arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
CV Aso arrives at Hiroshima/Kure
CV Ikoma arrives at Kobe

TK Tachibana Maru arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
ML G-213 arrives at Shimonoseki
35th Ind.Mixed Brigade arrives at Tokyo
36th Ind.Mixed Brigade arrives at Tokyo
37th Ind.Mixed Brigade arrives at Osaka/Kyoto


Losses: He's still getting a lot of misses and 'duds' against faster ASW ships.


Loss of SC Ch 44 on Feb 08, 1944 is admitted
Loss of TK Katsukawa Maru on Feb 09, 1944 is admitted


Ships Sunk: This is getting silly with the BBs! Lots of small fry sunk in the attack on Milne. Sucks.

Previous report of sinking of BB Colorado incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
SS Flasher is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944
LST-446 is reported to have been sunk near Kodiak on Jun 22, 1943
LCT-61 is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944
LCT-140 is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944
PT-179 is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944
PT-183 is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944
PT-186 is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944
PT-187 is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944
LCM 533C is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944
LCM 592B is reported to have been sunk near Milne Bay on Feb 09, 1944

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is a pic of the whole theatre. The white lines show where I'm working to still stiffen the first line. The orange are areas that are for the most part just starting to form a defense, or in the case of Sumatra, Malaya and Thailand places I'd like to add more. The red lines are spots I'll begin working on in a few months, both through reinforcements that arrive there in situ, some from the HI and with bought-out units. Most of this will likely be happening in the summer of 44.

The areas of pale red are those we have abandoned or are beginning to retreat from. The Gilberts up to Makin will be culled of good troops, HQs and most base forces to send to North New Guinea and the Carolines. If I have three weeks those bases will be tough to crack in good territory and in spots where it'll be more difficult to concentrate US fleet and air power.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2013 4:01:41 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1415
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/15/2013 9:42:26 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
ON HOLD
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

During recent exchanges Jocke let me know he isn't having much fun with the game right now. This came as a huge surprise to me as I thought this was the period when he would be most interested, getting good numbers, solid quality units and moving forward in several areas. We've been going back and forth in several exchanges about why he is having this feeling and if there is anything to do about it.

I'm getting concerned because I've said all along, and I still feel now, that I want to play this game to the bitter end. It's distressing to think I've played this far, gotten the economy to work and organized what I think will be a competitive endgame, and might not get the chance to play it. My entire philosophy and style were geared toward playing the game to late 45 or even to 46 if I am lucky.

He first mentioned that he thought our lack of stacking limits and the HR about 2nd best maneuver band were ruining the game. I've offered to change our HRs, to put stacking limits in place to do anything that would bring some fun back for him. I'll post some of our exchange mainly because it shows his thought process, but also because I've always valued this frank and open communication, our mutual respect, and I think these are so important to having a long lasting game with anyone.

From Jocke;

I feel I have always been able to be completely honest with you and speak openly with you. I see no reason to stop doing that now. Its hard to express some things in text but I´ll try to do my best.

I´ve been thinking about the game lot lately and I want to ask you something important. Are we still having fun with this game? As I said a lot of times before I will not give up on the game unless its in mutual agreement. I´ve made a commitment and I will keep it. So as long as you want to continue you don´t have to worry about me quitting! That I promise! :)

But I do want to bring some things up.

Lately I have been getting the feeling you are not having much fun either. Not too strange considering all the allied toys and the results lately. Something all Japanese players will have to deal with eventually. But our game is a bit different I think. To be honest you already beat me in mid 43 and no matter what happens you will already have "won" this clearly.

As you can understand I woudn´t bring this up if I was playing along happily. I can´t describe it more clearly then saying this feels more like work then play. I thought it was just the mass of Allied stuff arriving but I actually have a pretty good handle on that. It just feels like a grind? I have spent a massive amount of time thinking on why its feels like it does. I think it mostly comes down to a few key factors.

I´m already beaten and a year behind schedule. This leads to me feeling stressed out in everything I do. I´m just rushing everything.

No stacking limits. In hindsight we should have implemented it when we had the chance. The whole Burma situation is just silly as China was.

2nd best MVR band HR. I think this one ruined the air war for us. It made no sense for me to go up against your Tojos getting dived on and now the reverse situation.

I constantly keep thinking on all the major mistakes I have done due to inexperience and mostly stupidity.
I constantly keep thinking on all the things I would do differently and how the game would look now if I had done them.

Most of the things are purely my own problems. But there are some "systematic problems" that leads to the game being less interesting. The air war (or lack of) is one of them. Perhaps the biggest issue in fact. Its just so one sided it actually makes no sense any more. I believe that is mostly our fault with the MVR HR.

But I think perhaps that is another discussion.

As you are well aware my "play time" is very limited and I´m spending 95% of my spare time on our game. If we are not enjoying this the both of us I really think we should consider laying this game to rest. I think a really important question here should be: Do we want to continue playing this game for another 2 years? Is the game interesting and fun enough to warrant the massive time expenditure? For me the game feels like its....done and I want a rematch. That is a feeling I can´t shake and its probably what makes me feel like this is a grind and adds to the stress. I just want to get this game done and have another try at it.

Let me know what you think and feel. And just to make it perfectly clear I will repeat what I wrote first:

"As I said a lot of times before I will not give up on the game unless its in mutual agreement. I´ve made a commitment and I will keep it. So as long as you want to continue you don´t have to worry about me quitting! That I promise! :) "

I´m bringing this up because if I know you really want to continue with the game it will help with my motivation. If we both feel what I´m feeling there is no point in continuing wasting time!


My response;

Well, to be honest this surprises me. I had thought the game was pretty interesting lately, especially for you. The last thing I would want to do is deprive you of the time when you are able to move and play out the plans you've been building over the past years. I for one am certainly not feeling like I've won anything!

At the same time I would want the game to be fun for you. I don't want to drag you along in something that isn't fun. This is a big time suck, but the game always is and I'm not feeling any difference in terms of what I have to do. If anything the strategic and tactical choices are getting much harder because any one thing could have dire consequences. I know that all of this is probably the opposite on your side.

After getting this far my interest is in seeing it through until the end. Is there something we can change to make it more fun? Is there an HR to implement, or reconsider? Should we install staking limits now? Should we move slower and do only 3-4 turns a week? All of the above?

The issue for me is that I've spent all of this time on R n D and building a defense, and that would feel immensely dissatisfying to not see it through. I would give you every opportunity to make another choice and quit the game if you're not into it. I know your time is precious and I don't want to in any way convince you to do something you're not excited about. I would only ask that if we stop the game that you'd be willing to pass the Allied side to another player and that I could continue it to see what happens.

I've really enjoyed our discussion, our ability to work through issues and even the daily notes of playful comments and warnings. That is what has made the game fun for me. Playing you, a person I can grow to respect and admire, to enjoy communicating with and battling wits against. I can't frankly imagine finding another partner like you for this game, although I know there are some great ones out there.

If your heart is not in it, I won't ask you to keep it going. You know what they say about the cat though. I'm just too curious to let go of the end now that I see it coming. So before you throw in the towel consider if there is anything we can do to make it fun again. This might be our only chance ever to play an endgame, and I'd at least like to see if there is a way to make that a fun and exciting challenge. But please continue to be honest and really make sure you want to keep going and don't do it because I want to. The family and your own fun and satisfaction are much more important.


We've gone on from there. It's a difficult discussion and I have decided to ask for a hold until he decides what he really wants to do. I can't go forward knowing he wouldn't enjoy it.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/15/2013 11:27:06 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1416
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/15/2013 5:02:13 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2835
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
I think he's just suffering from what we all do playing this game over such a long term time commitment, the desire to improve play and apply what we've learned to better our performance. The problem is...time. It's just too easy a temptation to want to start over and that is why so many games stall out, but you're missing out on the stage of the game that many players don't ever experience, the end game.

Having my first PBEM end as it did was disappointing, especially when I almost quit myself and then deciding that I did want to continue as the game was in the first quarter of 43 and about to get interesting. I had my issues and desire to start over, but I also realized it would be better to continue and experience as much of the game as possible to improve and apply lessons learned to my next game.

Work it out with Jocke. I think he's just feeling a little down and let's face it, he's in tough against a good opponent in yourself. From your post above, it seems he feels he's lost already and that obviously is having a negative effect on his morale and fun factor. He's making strides, moving forward and I'm surprised he's thinking of ending the game. I'm getting destroyed as the Allies in my other PBEM and am simply not enjoying that game at all. However, I quietly gather my forces, train and plan for ways to start fighting back. I feel I've already lost the game too, but it's my first one as the Allies and in tough against a very aggressive opponent who goes for the jugular. I have no intention of quitting.

Jocke hasn't mentioned anything to me in correspondence during our PBEM about his feelings for this match. I'll give him a pep talk and see if I can help him feel better about your game. I'd hate to see it end prematurely. I think he's just frustrated.

P.s. Worst case scenario, if Jocke decided he needs to stop this game and you have trouble finding an opponent to take over his side so you can finish, I'm here Huckleberry. If you've ever watched the movie "Tombstone" you'll get it.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 2/15/2013 9:39:03 PM >


_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1417
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/15/2013 11:46:21 PM   
bigred


Posts: 2853
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline
Hi Obvert. Hope u guys work it out...getting a game to this point is a tremendous achievement.

_____________________________

---bigred---

IJ Production mistakes--
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2597400

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 1418
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/16/2013 9:06:41 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Thanks guys.

It looks like we're moving forward, so maybe it is just the fatigue of such a long game. I've got a turn, so we'll keep it rolling and see what happens down the road.

Off for coffee now, then back to run the turn.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 1419
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/16/2013 9:19:25 AM   
Encircled


Posts: 986
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline
Its very hard juggling new kid, job and the rest of life with a long commitment to a strategy game.

I have two little boys, and the chances of my being able to do anything other than a game against the AI is pretty much zero!

Hope he sticks with it though as its a good learning tool for those of us who are nowhere near as good at this as you two

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1420
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/16/2013 11:50:52 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5619
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Its very hard juggling new kid, job and the rest of life with a long commitment to a strategy game.

I have two little boys, and the chances of my being able to do anything other than a game against the AI is pretty much zero!

Hope he sticks with it though as its a good learning tool for those of us who are nowhere near as good at this as you two

+1

Same for me ... no PBEM for quite some time ... sadly.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 1421
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/18/2013 12:15:14 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
10 - 12 February 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: An Aden class xAK was sent to meet it's convoy protection after doing a solo supply drop in North New Guinea. The Bashaw sinks it in a surface attack.

In more pleasant news, I-157 finds the O19 moving unaware near Carnarvon and likely puts it under with two TT hits out of two from 2k yards. Good shootin! Interesting that the sub didn't list as sunk immediately.

SOUTH PACIFIC: Umboi Island will fall tomorrow most likely. The 1st Marine is a tough adversary in 44, supported by a bunch of bombardments.

The Allies finally shut down Salamua field, probably cancelling all pulling of troops for a good while. Too bad, but it had to end sometime. I'll concentrate now on redistribution of the ones that got out and starting to move things back to Truk as well.

BURMA: The Allies try bombardments and a direct DA near Toungoo. It doesn't go well for them, getting another 1:2 with big disablements that should prevent further attacks for a few weeks at least. Several Chinese units moved in to support this one, but I'm sure they didn't do well against dug in troops and tanks. Even the Allied armor suffered almost 170 disablements and a few more destroyed.

So now I'm worried he'll move around and double up on one spot. That would mean I'd have to recognize quickly and shift force myself. I think though with the internal routes I could get there before a breakthrough.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 10, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on 31st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes


Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 12
Liberator B.III x 9
Liberator GR.III x 8
Wellington Ic x 12
Wellington B.X x 12
B-17F Fortress x 9
B-24D Liberator x 8
B-24D1 Liberator x 8
B-24J Liberator x 27
B-25C Mitchell x 44
B-26 Marauder x 23

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington Ic: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
15 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 23rd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes


Allied aircraft
Blenheim VD x 12
Liberator II x 11
Liberator GR.III x 7
B-24J Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
17 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Blenheim VD bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Port Blair at 49,58

Japanese Ships
E Kamome
E Natsushima

Allied Ships
SS Tally Ho, hits 3

SS Tally Ho is located by E Kamome
Tally Ho diving deep ....
E Kamome is out of ASW ammo
E Kamome fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Umboi Island (100,125)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 11945 troops, 227 guns, 140 vehicles, Assault Value = 458

Defending force 6747 troops, 33 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 170

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 195

Japanese adjusted defense: 151

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 4

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
789 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 61 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 12 (2 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
189 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Assaulting units:
1st Marine Division

Defending units:
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Raiding Regiment
30th Recon Regiment
58th Construction Battalion
51st JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 56,49 (near Toungoo)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2422 troops, 163 guns, 176 vehicles, Assault Value = 4151

Defending force 102049 troops, 1411 guns, 740 vehicles, Assault Value = 3259

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 33 (12 destroyed, 21 disabled)
Vehicles lost 18 (2 destroyed, 16 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 11, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Hollandia at 95,114

Japanese Ships
xAK Yamayuri Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Bashaw

SS Bashaw attacking on the surface

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 30th Recon Regiment, at 100,125 (Umboi Island)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes


Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 36
B-17E Fortress x 23
B-24D Liberator x 11
B-24D1 Liberator x 101
B-24J Liberator x 50
B-25C Mitchell x 70
B-25D1 Mitchell x 100
B-25G Mitchell x 17
F6F-3 Hellcat x 60
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 32

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
130 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 11 (1 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 6th Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes


Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 15
Liberator B.III x 13
Liberator GR.III x 21
B-17F Fortress x 11
B-24D Liberator x 13
B-24D1 Liberator x 36
B-24J Liberator x 98

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 2 damaged
Liberator B.III: 1 damaged
Liberator GR.III: 1 destroyed by flak
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Liberator II bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 1st Tank Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes


Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 12
Blenheim VD x 12
Wellington Ic x 12
Wellington GR.VIII x 11
B-25C Mitchell x 46
B-26 Marauder x 12


Allied aircraft losses
Wellington Ic: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Umboi Island (100,125)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 11788 troops, 226 guns, 140 vehicles, Assault Value = 434

Defending force 6010 troops, 33 guns, 40 vehicles, Assault Value = 103

Allied adjusted assault: 384

Japanese adjusted defense: 147

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
503 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 62 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 5 (2 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Assaulting units:
1st Marine Division

Defending units:
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Raiding Regiment
30th Recon Regiment
58th Construction Battalion
51st JAAF AF Bn


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 57,49 (near Toungoo)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 82434 troops, 1331 guns, 1636 vehicles, Assault Value = 3762

Defending force 67494 troops, 777 guns, 821 vehicles, Assault Value = 2374

Japanese ground losses:
37 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 10 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 5 (2 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (3 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Assaulting units:
150th RAC Regiment
255th Armoured Brigade
1st New Chinese/A Corps
Provisionl Tank Brigade
50th Tank Brigade
20th Indian Division
254th Armoured Brigade
29th British Brigade
14th Chindit Brigade
22nd (East African) Brigade
16th Chindit Brigade
11th (East African) Division
268th Motorised Brigade
23rd Chindit Brigade
26th Indian Brigade
23rd Indian Division
1st New Chinese/C Corps
III Indian Corps
8th Belfast Heavy Regiment

Defending units:
32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
30th Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Division
31st Ind.Mixed Brigade
1st Tank Division
23rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
6th Division
33rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
69th Field AA Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
40th Field AA Battalion
20th AA Regiment
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
14th Mortar Battalion
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
5th Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
9th RF Gun Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 56,49 (near Toungoo)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2398 troops, 155 guns, 176 vehicles, Assault Value = 4152

Defending force 102088 troops, 1411 guns, 740 vehicles, Assault Value = 3263

Japanese ground losses:
72 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 23 (4 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Vehicles lost 22 (11 destroyed, 11 disabled)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 12, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub vs Sub: SS I-157 attacking SS O19 at 48,131 - near Carnarvon

Japanese Ships
SS I-157

Allied Ships
SS O19, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage

SS I-157 launches 2 torpedoes at 2,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes


Allied aircraft
Beaufort I x 9
Blenheim IV x 12
Liberator II x 14
Liberator B.III x 3
Liberator GR.III x 19
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 26
B-24J Liberator x 95
B-25C Mitchell x 21
B-25D1 Mitchell x 12
B-26 Marauder x 11
B-26B Marauder x 10
P-40K Warhawk x 24


Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 2 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 77
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 156

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 30th Recon Regiment, at 100,125 (Umboi Island)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes


Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 36
B-17E Fortress x 16
B-24D Liberator x 8
B-24D1 Liberator x 83
B-24J Liberator x 40
B-25D1 Mitchell x 79
P-38H Lightning x 55
F6F-3 Hellcat x 60
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 32

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
96 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (3 destroyed, 2 disabled)



Aircraft Attacking:
10 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Salamaua , at 98,127

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 63 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 57
B-25G Mitchell x 14
P-38H Lightning x 58
P-40K Warhawk x 18

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 23
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 70

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 57,49 (near Toungoo)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 84664 troops, 1329 guns, 1957 vehicles, Assault Value = 3750

Defending force 67642 troops, 777 guns, 821 vehicles, Assault Value = 2383

Allied adjusted assault: 1739

Japanese adjusted defense: 4515

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3432 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 264 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 55 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 42 disabled
Guns lost 177 (18 destroyed, 159 disabled)
Vehicles lost 152 (43 destroyed, 109 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
3629 casualties reported
Squads: 49 destroyed, 938 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 182 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 101 disabled
Guns lost 94 (26 destroyed, 68 disabled)
Vehicles lost 177 (9 destroyed, 168 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: Lots of air groups arriving. Most will begin by training pilots. Quite a few new TKs too. This will let me scale down the Merchant production a few more points.

MTB G-546 arrives at Hakodate
MTB G-15 arrives at Yokohama/Yokosuka
37th Ind. Engineer Regiment arrives at Kumamoto
47th I.F.Chutai arrives at Hailar
48th I.F.Chutai arrives at Hailar
49th I.F.Chutai arrives at Shanghai
TK Hidaka Maru arrives at Hiroshima/Kure
TK Tamon Maru #15 arrives at Hiroshima/Kure
TK Dairetsu Maru arrives at Hiroshima/Kure
I.26-1 arrives at Tokyo
TK Koryu Maru arrives at Samah
ML G-214 arrives at Yokohama/Yokosuka
Kako-1 arrives at Tokyo
5th Air Army arrives at Changchun

Aircraft Ki-43-IV Oscar advances R&D


Losses: I took a gamble with this ship moving 4-5 hexes solo and lost. The US subs are getting downright nasty lately.

Loss of xAK Yamayuri Maru on Feb 11, 1944 is admitted

Ships Sunk: Always good.

SS O19 is reported to have been sunk near Carnarvon on Feb 12, 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I've decided to pump up the Norm production a bit. I was just making 12 to supply a few land-based groups. I'll add a few more to potentially have some on a BB/CA to give longer searching range.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/19/2013 7:24:07 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1422
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/18/2013 4:14:15 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
13 - 15 February 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: Subs take out two more good escorts, a fast SC and E Yaeyama.

SOUTH PACIFIC: A good fresh brigade is rendered nearly incapable of combat in just three days of Allied bombing on a jungle road as it's caught out of a protective fort system on it's way to Hansa Bay. I wanted to protect that base since it can go to level 9, get at least 300 AV in there. Now that looks unlikely, since this unit was the backbone of that garrison. Maybe it'll take while to get prep ready and it can recover, but it doesn't look good.

Umboi Island falls and the remaining units are further reduced over the next few days. All will be bought back and shipped to the Marianas.

WEST OZ: Katherine goes to the Allied side without a fight. Units are being slowly transported out of Darwin.

BURMA: Just a bit more bombing and more troops piling into the gap between Bassein and Prome. I'm worried about this, but it looks like our reinforcements will make it in time.

CENTRAL PACFIC: Something is happening in the Central Pacific. An Allied surface fleet just got picked up by LR search. interesting. This might be bad timing for our evac transports on the way.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 13, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 53rd Infantry Brigade, at 98,122 , near Madang

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 36
B-17E Fortress x 21
B-24D Liberator x 11
B-24D1 Liberator x 101
B-24J Liberator x 35
B-25C Mitchell x 33
B-25D1 Mitchell x 64
B-25G Mitchell x 17
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 21

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
682 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 34 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 6th Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 9
Liberator B.III x 9
Liberator GR.III x 12
B-24D Liberator x 12
B-24D1 Liberator x 18
B-24J Liberator x 49

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 2 damaged
Liberator II: 1 destroyed by flak
Liberator B.III: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Liberator II bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Umboi Island (100,125)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 11716 troops, 226 guns, 140 vehicles, Assault Value = 426

Defending force 5428 troops, 30 guns, 36 vehicles, Assault Value = 55

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 187

Japanese adjusted defense: 27

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Umboi Island !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1017 casualties reported
Squads: 50 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 23 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 59 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 18 (15 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 32 (32 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
116 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st Marine Division

Defending units:
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Raiding Regiment
30th Recon Regiment
58th Construction Battalion
51st JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 14, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Umboi Island (100,125)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 11618 troops, 228 guns, 140 vehicles, Assault Value = 409

Defending force 1160 troops, 9 guns, 14 vehicles, Assault Value = 14

Allied adjusted assault: 350

Japanese adjusted defense: 9

Allied assault odds: 38 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
312 casualties reported
Squads: 25 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 16 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 13 (13 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
1st Marine Division

Defending units:
30th Recon Regiment
51st JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 9th Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes


Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 10
Liberator B.III x 11
Liberator GR.III x 11
B-17F Fortress x 6
B-24D Liberator x 12
B-24D1 Liberator x 18
B-24J Liberator x 71


Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 2 damaged
Liberator B.III: 1 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Liberator II bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 9th Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes


Allied aircraft
Beaufort I x 22
Blenheim IV x 13
Wellington B.X x 13
B-25C Mitchell x 60
B-26 Marauder x 25
B-26B Marauder x 12


Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort I: 1 damaged
Beaufort I: 1 destroyed by flak
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
119 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 15, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Wenchow at 90,61

Japanese Ships
SC CHa-23, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
xAKL Juyo Maru
xAKL Chosen Maru
SC CHa-19

Allied Ships
SS Tautog

SS Tautog launches 2 torpedoes at SC CHa-23
Tautog diving deep ....
SC CHa-19 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Babeldaob at 91,95

Japanese Ships
E Yaeyama, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SC Ch 12
TK Akebono Maru
E Hiyodori

Allied Ships
SS Grayling, hits 1

SS Grayling launches 6 torpedoes at E Yaeyama
Grayling diving deep ....
E Hiyodori fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Hiyodori attacking submerged sub ....
E Hiyodori fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 53rd Infantry Brigade, at 98,122 , near Madang

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 18
B-17E Fortress x 15
B-24D Liberator x 7
B-24D1 Liberator x 87
B-24J Liberator x 44
B-25D1 Mitchell x 82
B-25G Mitchell x 10
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 31

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
388 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 18 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 28 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 9th Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 8
Liberator B.III x 6
Liberator GR.III x 11
B-17F Fortress x 6
B-24D Liberator x 12
B-24D1 Liberator x 18
B-24J Liberator x 51

Allied aircraft losses
B-17F Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
36 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Liberator II bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Salamaua , at 98,127

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 58
P-40K Warhawk x 18

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 34

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: All kinds of ground replacements, now I just need more PPs to use getting most of them out of China.

LST T-106 arrives at Shimonoseki
51st Air Flotilla arrives at Ominato
11th Ind.Infantry Brigade arrives at Hankow
7th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion arrives at Shanghai
8th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion arrives at Shanghai
14th Ind.Infantry Brigade arrives at Peiping
9th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion arrives at Canton
10th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion arrives at Canton
11th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion arrives at Canton
15th Mortar Battalion arrives at Changchun
17th Mortar Battalion arrives at Tsitsihar
6th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion arrives at Tokyo
56th Naval Guard Unit arrives at Tokyo
40th Ind. Engineer Regiment arrives at Peiping
41st Ind. Engineer Regiment arrives at Shanghai
SC CHa-76 arrives at Takamatsu
341 Ku S-2 arrives at Matsuyama
762 Ku K-1 arrives at Kanoya
341 Ku S-2 arrives at Takamatsu
30th Field AA Machinecannon Company arrives at Tokyo
42nd Ind. Engineer Regiment arrives at Tokyo

Aircraft Ki-61-II KAI Tony advances R&D (5/44)


Losses: The new E classes start appearing this month, just in time.

Loss of E Yaeyama on Feb 15, 1944 is admitted
Loss of SC CHa-23 on Feb 15, 1944 is admitted


Ships Sunk: None.

Previous report of sinking of SS Grayback incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm considering building the Tony Ki-61-II KAI, the last version before the Ki-100 to see if will be a good back line interceptor. It's fast enough and well armed enough to possibly take on B-29s, but it has a service rating of 4. This would be used in specific locations with lots of support and no fighter sweeps likely. Places like Singapore, Balikpapan and Saigon, and ideally balanced by a group of J2M3 or N1K2 with service ratings of 2.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/18/2013 4:17:13 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1423
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 1:16:56 AM   
Dora09

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline
Hello obvert,
good to see your game is back on. Yours is my favorite AAR and I follow yours and Jocs side closely. I got used to reading it every day and I was pretty bummed when you guys had a slowdown.

I am interested in your rationale for building the Ki61 II. I always felt like the Ki61 was not quite as good as it should be in the game (and that the Ki44 is maybe a little bit better than it should be, it always seemed to me that their mvr ratings should be switched). This game I swore that I wouldn't build Ki61s because they have been a disapointment in the past. However, I ended up building them again. It is August 43 for me and I have Ia and Ib (Ic comming on line now) built. I ended up using them as point interceptors in key bases were Ki44s, Ki43 and N1K1a do most of the offensive work while my Ki61s, Ki45s and J2Ms do the defensive work. It has worked well so far and my Ki61 groups have some of my best pilots now despite very limited action (my opponent hasn't been to agressive on my forward airbases in a while).

So my question is, how have the Ki61s been doing for you? I read your AAR religously but it is hard sometimes to get a sense of how well individual aircraft types are doing. I ask because if you are planning to build Ki61 II, I assume that the Ki61 Is have been useful. To me the Ki61 II always seemed like it would be awful in this game, and even the Ki100 seems questionable. I was planning on skipping them and just going all in on the ki84 once it comes online ( I should be getting th first model in a month or so).

Sorry for the long winded nature of this post, I just love to geek out on the differnet aircraft types and you are the one to ask beacuse you have been building them all (which is awesome by the way).

Also, is the P1Y1 worth it with srvs 4? I am building 20 a month now but wonder if it makes more sense just to stick with G4M.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1424
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 11:10:36 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

Hello obvert,
good to see your game is back on. Yours is my favorite AAR and I follow yours and Jocs side closely. I got used to reading it every day and I was pretty bummed when you guys had a slowdown.

I am interested in your rationale for building the Ki61 II. I always felt like the Ki61 was not quite as good as it should be in the game (and that the Ki44 is maybe a little bit better than it should be, it always seemed to me that their mvr ratings should be switched). This game I swore that I wouldn't build Ki61s because they have been a disapointment in the past. However, I ended up building them again. It is August 43 for me and I have Ia and Ib (Ic comming on line now) built. I ended up using them as point interceptors in key bases were Ki44s, Ki43 and N1K1a do most of the offensive work while my Ki61s, Ki45s and J2Ms do the defensive work. It has worked well so far and my Ki61 groups have some of my best pilots now despite very limited action (my opponent hasn't been to agressive on my forward airbases in a while).

So my question is, how have the Ki61s been doing for you? I read your AAR religously but it is hard sometimes to get a sense of how well individual aircraft types are doing. I ask because if you are planning to build Ki61 II, I assume that the Ki61 Is have been useful. To me the Ki61 II always seemed like it would be awful in this game, and even the Ki100 seems questionable. I was planning on skipping them and just going all in on the ki84 once it comes online ( I should be getting th first model in a month or so).

Sorry for the long winded nature of this post, I just love to geek out on the differnet aircraft types and you are the one to ask beacuse you have been building them all (which is awesome by the way).

Also, is the P1Y1 worth it with srvs 4? I am building 20 a month now but wonder if it makes more sense just to stick with G4M.


Thanks for the inquiry and comments.

To be honest I'm not sure how well any of these planes would do in isolation. That's one of the things I'll be figuring out soon I fear, when the B-29 is able to reach faraway bases unescorted.

The things I'm looking at are increased speed and centerline canons. The Ki-61-II KAI has centerline Ho-5 20mm and is faster than the Ki-44 IIc, N1K2 and J2M3 at 279 MPH. I may default to the Frank as it's the fastest, but it doesn't have the centerline 20mm. Any Tony-II group will need lots of support and a low service rating fighter to operate with it. I'm only building 35 Tonys a month currently, so it's going into the small 12-16 plane groups for experimental purposes.

As for the Frances P1Y1, it does seem to break through pretty well based on the 340 mph speed. The next one loses speed but is only service 2, so I'll move to that when it comes. The Netties suffer quite a bit from flak even if they do make it through CAP these days, so I don't know that they'll be much use offensively until kamis become available, or once I can use them en masse without a bunch of LBA around.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/19/2013 11:12:46 AM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Dora09)
Post #: 1425
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 12:19:41 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
It's probably just wishful thinking that the last Tony will have any real usefulness. I've just been listening to all who say the Frank Ib is the best combination of elements in a late war Japanese fighter, and the centerline 20mm and the speed are the two main factors people talk about. I'd love to be able to really play with some of these planes in different circumstances, but in game I'm always faced with concentrated Allied forces, and the best planes available, only. It's even rare to see Hellcats sweeping, and when I do, my fighters don't do badly.

The B-29 arrives soon, and I have to get ready. New groups have arrived and are in the HI training, but will move to the DEI soon. I want an HQ and at least 100 fighters at Palembang, Medan, Soerabaja, Balikpapan and Miri/Brunei. In addition I'll have a good CAP at Singapore, Saigon, Batavia and Bangkok to try and protect the HI/LI there. It's a lot to do while still covering frontline bases and trying to slow invasion threats.

The benefit of having put off the stage of Allied advance is that I have more to play with to defend at this point in 44. The difficulty is that I still have a lot to defend, a lot of ships to fuel and bases to feed with supplies.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1426
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 1:23:26 PM   
Dora09

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline
Thanks for the information obvert!
It will be interesting to see how your Ki61 IIs do. It is also good to hear that the P1Ys are useful, I might up their production. I was a little leary because of their mnt rating of 4 and that they also use the engine I need for N1Ks and Ki84s.

I am about 6-7 months behind you in my game so I am learning a lot from yours and love seeing you try out these new units as well as your stategy. Keep up the good work!


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1427
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 2:46:57 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
16 - 17 February 1944
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SOUTH PACIFIC: Jocke sends in DDs to take out my PTs near Rabaul, sinking several. He also bombards Gasmata for minimal damage. The brigade on it's way to Hansa Bay gets another pasting before making it to the base with about 60 AV left out of 165. Hmmm. No way to stop this as a total of nearly 200 of the best Allied fighters sweeps before these raids, showing up in about 8-10 different individual packets.

BURMA: More bombing of troops that isn't effective. My tank division is recovering and is at 60% TOE near Toungoo now. The units near Bassein are still piling in but there's no indication of which direction he'll go from there. It could all move back toward Prome for all I know. Jocke is giving another try on the road to Lashio. He's got two units, about 37k troops, moving toward the forest hex off the main road, obviously wanting to bypass my terrifying dug-in Thai division. I'm moving a brigade and a 1/3 division there with an arty unit. There is an HQ in hex already.

CENTRAL PACFIC: The big news of the day is that Allied CVs are heading toward the Gilberts/Marshalls with several other TFs in sight of search. Looks like an invasion. This surprises me a bit. I thought he might just leave these and focus on areas closer to the HI. It's a great strategic move considering what I had been trying to do, which I assume he had no idea about, which is bringing TFs in to remove troops. I've got two that will have to scuttle back to Ponape now that are sitting at Abemama and Tabiteuea, and several more that had been on the way to other islands.

I'm considering bringing the KB up closer to see how careful he's being this time. If this is as slow and methodical as the previous moves to Canton and Baker, I could get a shot in for a last hurrah of the KB.

As a side note, Jocke was apparently upset about a picket ship I put out here that had been there for about 2 years. It had just been going back and forth refueling and then coming back on station. He said he was most unhappy about the type of ship used here. I'm thinking this is a difference caused by th types often used by the Japanese and the Allies. This is a To'su class which can be converted to a PB, ACM, AMc or an xAKL. I had thought since it was not a merchant that this fit our idea about pickets being a combat ship, something that would likely be in this position in the war. In fact this very type was similar to those used near Japan that the Doolittle Raid ships ran into and destroyed, and that was 650 miles out. Some of the ships in that action are from this and other similar classes that can be converted in AE.

Does this use of a picket as early warning, just about 10-12 hexes away from the Marshalls, seem unrealistic and out of character with what the Japanese did do in reality?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 16, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Rabaul at 107,126, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-538
MTB G-539
MTB G-540
MTB G-541
MTB G-160, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB G-161, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB G-11, Shell hits 16, and is sunk


Allied Ships
DD Charrette
DD Cotten
DD Franks
DD Hale

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Gasmata at 103,127

Allied Ships
CA Boston
CA Portland
DD Hunt
DD Hickox
DD Lewis Hancock
DD Dortch
DD Caperton
DD Bullard
DD Clarence Bronson
DD Boyd
DD Black

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 25
Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 1

CA Boston firing at Gasmata

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 53rd Infantry Brigade, at 98,122 , near Madang

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes


Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 36
B-17E Fortress x 22
B-24D Liberator x 10
B-24D1 Liberator x 106
B-24J Liberator x 44
B-25D1 Mitchell x 98
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 30

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
352 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 34 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 6th Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufort I x 12
Blenheim IV x 13
Blenheim VD x 13
Liberator II x 3
Wellington GR.VIII x 12
Wellington B.X x 13
B-17F Fortress x 9
B-24D1 Liberator x 22
B-24J Liberator x 53
B-25C Mitchell x 50
B-26 Marauder x 13

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 1 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
53 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes


Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 9
Liberator B.III x 6
Liberator GR.III x 12
B-24D Liberator x 12
B-24J Liberator x 27


Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Liberator II bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 17, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 53rd Infantry Brigade, at 98,122 , near Madang

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 36
B-17E Fortress x 19
B-24D Liberator x 9
B-24D1 Liberator x 108
B-24J Liberator x 55
B-25D1 Mitchell x 99
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 28

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
494 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 33 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 25 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR February 17, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 9th Division, at 57,49 , near Toungoo

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufort I x 22
Blenheim IV x 12
Blenheim VD x 13
Liberator II x 12
Liberator B.III x 10
Liberator GR.III x 10
Wellington Ic x 13
Wellington GR.VIII x 12
Wellington B.X x 13
B-17F Fortress x 9
B-24D Liberator x 9
B-24D1 Liberator x 17
B-24J Liberator x 52
B-25C Mitchell x 58
B-25D1 Mitchell x 13
B-26 Marauder x 25

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort I: 1 damaged
Liberator II: 1 damaged
Liberator B.III: 1 destroyed by flak
B-17F Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
63 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Howland Island at 148,125

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 59
SBD-5 Dauntless x 34

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AMc Shonan Maru #7, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
31 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: A few sunk, a few arriving.

MTB G-547 arrives at Sapporo
ML G-215 arrives at Hakodate


Losses:
Loss of MTB G-160 on Feb 16, 1944 is admitted
Loss of MTB G-161 on Feb 16, 1944 is admitted
Loss of MTB G-11 on Feb 16, 1944 is admitted
Loss of AMc Shonan Maru #7 on Feb 17, 1944 is admitted


Ships Sunk: None.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The situatino in Burma is still tense. The Allies near Bassein are in a dangerous position. How much will they risk to cross?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/19/2013 2:49:26 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1428
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 4:15:01 PM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 163
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italia
Status: offline
Happy to see that you're continuing the game, it's also my favourite AAR.
I think It's human and normal that sometimes one player feels a little tired during such a long game. It also happened to me and to my opponent bur we also managed to to go on like ou and Jocke.
I'm wondering if it's really necessary for you defendin the HI and LI industry in the SW, you've so much in Japan, you're moving to the end of the war and you're plenty of ind points!
I'm not glad to see the slaughter of your airforce but it seems almost inevitable. You could change the rule of second band also Jocke seems positive on it, I think the game should improve for both, you could at least make a try.


< Message edited by MrBlizzard -- 2/19/2013 5:02:32 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1429
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 5:03:07 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

Happy to see that you're continuing the game, it's also my favourite AAR.
I think It's human and normal that sometimes one player feels a little tired during such a long game. It also happened to me and to my opponent bur we also managed to to go on like ou and Jocke.
I'm wondering if it's really necessary for you defendin the HI and LI industry in the SW, you've so much in Japan, you're moving to the end of the war and you're plenty of ind points!
I'm not glad to see the slaughter of yor airforce but it seems almost inevitable. You could change the rule of second band also Jocke seems positive, I thonk the game could improve for both, you could at least make a try.!



He actually suggested first that this 2nd best maneuver band rule was one of the things making him feel less interested in the game. I offered to change it in anyway he saw fit to bring a bit of competitiveness and just interest back into the air war. In actuality I would use more fighters more often if this was different, but of course I might kill a few more of his as well. Probably not very many more, but enough that he doesn't want to do it. If we did change the net result would probably be about equal to what we have now, just higher losses for both sides and more interesting, dynamic turns.

I did some calculations during this period of negotiations and actually sent him my fighter production numbers. He was surprised I was making so many, but looking at Japan's numbers for the war, it seems to me I'm about on target for this point. I could be wrong, but I imagine it would have scaled up until the factories started getting wrecked in mid-44. Also, since that may not happen in this game so soon, and since i have a bit more HI than historical, I should be on target for more production by the middle of 45 than the Japanese were able to pull off (as far as I can tell they made 36k fighters during the war, meaning if the war was 45 months they made about 800 per month averaged out).

------------------------------------------------
This is what I sent him in one of the emails.

200 - Tojo IIc (now basically becoming obsolete, but with service rating 1 still useful).
220 - Frank Ia (the only plane that can hope to challenge you in the air with a sweep or high CAP).
125- George N1K2 (service 2, just online)
60 - George N1K1
120 - Jack J2M3
----------------
725

35 - Tony Id (surely not a frontline fighter, but a decent backline interceptor out of sweep range)
125 - Oscar IIIa (again, not for use as an interceptor but for escort and later kami use)
125 - A6M5b (because I have to, not because I want to!)
40 - Nick Ia
---------------
325

As far as I know from production you get:

130 - Hellcats
78 - Corsair F4U-1A
32 - Spitfire VIII
16 - Corsair II
50 - P-38J
175 - P-47D25
12 - Spitfire Vc
20 - Spitfire VIII (Aussie)
12 - Mosquito FB
6 - Beaufighter X
4 - Hellcat NF
-----------------
535

55 - P-40N
128 - Wildcat FM - 2
36 - Hurricane IIc
30 - Kittyhawk IV (Aussie)
12 - Kittyhawk IV (NZ)
8 - P-40N (Chinese)
4 P-39N2
---------------
273

These numbers tell only a small portion of the story, however. All of my replacement groups arrive with only 2 planes in them. I have to fill them out after that.

In replacement groups in March 44 alone you will get:

70 FM-2
15 Hellcat I
14 Wildcat V
40 Hellcat
16 Baufighter

That's a very slow month as no USAAF groups arrive. Jan and Feb have many more, including a lot of Corsairs, as I've been seeing!


So the numbers are not that far off, but the quality is beginning to be markedly different.

------------------------------------------------
I agree it's normal to be fatigued by this game. I have my own down moments, distracted periods, and just plain getting away for a few days. This will hopefully be a good period as Jocke has an exam coming up that he is studying for and so we will hold for a few more days until the weekend.

As for the industry in the DEI, that's a good point. I do have a good amount of HI built up and I'm doing okay for supply. The oil is most important. I guess though that these bases will be used anyway (port facilities especially), so I'll have to defend them regardless. Also, for all of these bases I don't have to ship in fuel or resources, it's already moving by land. That makes the HI/LI more efficient than that in Japan. If I really want to try for the bitter I end, I still have two more years to bank toward.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/19/2013 9:57:58 PM >


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Post #: 1430
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 10:35:37 PM   
obvert


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Airframe Production
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Interesting. Looks like I'm underproducing!

I just found a great article analyzing US vs Japanese production in all categories. Amazing stuff.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/P/r/Production.htm

During 44 the Japanese actually made 28,180 aircraft! Of those 13,811 were fighters. (13,811 / 12 = 1150.92 planes per month)

I should add 100 fighters to my production just to keep up with historical!

In addition I think I'm far behind in all other categories. (i.e. 2E bombers. I'm making ~375/month x 12 = 4500)

Time to pump it up. I am shutting down a lot of ship production, so I'll look at what I could add now based on these numbers and the state of my pools. I had thought I was in some extreme category of taking advantage of AE and the ease of economic expansion. As it turns out it seems I'm doing less than the Japanese did in the war with the greater difficulties they faced in bringing in resources, fuel and keeping factories going due to air raid damage.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/19/2013 10:37:26 PM >


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Post #: 1431
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 10:38:35 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6081
Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Airframe Production
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Interesting. Looks like I'm underproducing!

I just found a great article analyzing US vs Japanese production in all categories. Amazing stuff.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/P/r/Production.htm

During 44 the Japanese actually made 28,180 aircraft! Of those 13,811 were fighters. (13,811 / 12 = 1150.92 planes per month)

I should add 100 fighters to my production just to keep up with historical!

In addition I think I'm far behind in all other categories. (i.e. 2E bombers. I'm making ~375/month x 12 = 4500)

Time to pump it up. I am shutting down a lot of ship production, so I'll look at what I could add now based on these numbers and the state of my pools. I had thought I was in some extreme category of taking advantage of AE and the ease of economic expansion when it turns out I'm doing less than the Japanese did in the war with the greater difficulties they faced in bringing in resources, fuel and keeping factories going due to air raid damage.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Just be carefull not to produce too much Erik!
I find that one of the most stupid thing i've done so far in my game is to have overproduced planes that are not anymore needed (A6M2 for example...i have more than 400 of them in pools .... or the Oscar Ic... )


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1432
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 10:47:06 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL; Greyjoy

Just be carefull not to produce too much Erik!
I find that one of the most stupid thing i've done so far in my game is to have overproduced planes that are not anymore needed (A6M2 for example...i have more than 400 of them in pools .... or the Oscar Ic... )


Yes, that is a concern with certain airframes, especially early. I have too many Oscar Ic as well.

I am not too bad off with the A6M2. In addition to the ones in training units I have about 250 of them. I'll actually use them for escort as well, probably for kami strikes later.

Most of the planes now in production could have some good use in the late war, whether it's a kami, and escort or a rear area fighter group.

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Post #: 1433
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 10:53:39 PM   
GreyJoy


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I think the best plane to "overproduce" is the Oscar IV. 360 mph fast (decent), armour, 2x250 kg bombs (Kami) and 2 Ho-5 cannons in the centerline...better than a Frank r. This is probably the most versatile late war allied fighter. It has enough firepower to be able to shoot down a 4E, can be a great Kami, has a SR=1 and it's only 16 mph slower than the Tojo "c".... not bad

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1434
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 11:24:42 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I think the best plane to "overproduce" is the Oscar IV. 360 mph fast (decent), armour, 2x250 kg bombs (Kami) and 2 Ho-5 cannons in the centerline...better than a Frank r. This is probably the most versatile late war allied fighter. It has enough firepower to be able to shoot down a 4E, can be a great Kami, has a SR=1 and it's only 16 mph slower than the Tojo "c".... not bad


I'm really looking forward to seeing the difference those 2 Ho-5 make for this plane. It's slow, but still, the maneuver will help a bit and the versatility is great as you say.

Pax warned me a while back not to expect too much with that speed as most of the Allied fighters will be 50-80mph faster by the time it arrives. Aside from the slow speed, it's other achilles is it's low durability. Always the concern with the Oscar.

But ... if it can't perform as a fighter, just crash a few hundred into an air combat TF!

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/19/2013 11:25:20 PM >


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Post #: 1435
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/19/2013 11:49:53 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I think the best plane to "overproduce" is the Oscar IV. 360 mph fast (decent), armour, 2x250 kg bombs (Kami) and 2 Ho-5 cannons in the centerline...better than a Frank r. This is probably the most versatile late war allied fighter. It has enough firepower to be able to shoot down a 4E, can be a great Kami, has a SR=1 and it's only 16 mph slower than the Tojo "c".... not bad


I'm really looking forward to seeing the difference those 2 Ho-5 make for this plane. It's slow, but still, the maneuver will help a bit and the versatility is great as you say.

Pax warned me a while back not to expect too much with that speed as most of the Allied fighters will be 50-80mph faster by the time it arrives. Aside from the slow speed, it's other achilles is it's low durability. Always the concern with the Oscar.

But ... if it can't perform as a fighter, just crash a few hundred into an air combat TF!



Well, surely it's better than any zero you have in your arsenal and it's not worse than a Ki-100. The SR-1 compensates , imho, with the low durability.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1436
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/20/2013 12:57:31 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Central Pacific
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is a shot of the apparent invasion forces moving into the Central Pacific. I went back and found a shot of where the picket was before being 'found' by SBDs from this CV TF.

Transports can be seen at Tabiteuaea and Abemama. These will attempt to move back into the shadows around Ponape awaiting results of this threat. The KB is shifting position to be slightly nearer, waiting to assess the situation for possibilities.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/20/2013 12:58:52 PM >


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Post #: 1437
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/20/2013 5:49:33 PM   
HansBolter


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From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
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I think the real problem that Joc had with the picket "ship" is that a minesweeper only marginally qualifies as a combatant type and a coastal minesweeper barely qualifies as a minesweeper.

Since technically it is a combatant ship type it falls with in you HR. However, the use of a coastal ship type of durability rating 1 operating independently 400 miles or more from the nearest coast seems a bit of a stretch.

For the Allies, sending short legged durability rating 1 ship types any significant distance across blue water necessitates teaming them with longer legged, higher durabilty ship types.

I'm not wagging any fingers of "shouldn't have", just explaining my take on why Joc seemed so put out over it.

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Post #: 1438
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/20/2013 10:51:23 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6817
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I think the real problem that Joc had with the picket "ship" is that a minesweeper only marginally qualifies as a combatant type and a coastal minesweeper barely qualifies as a minesweeper.

Since technically it is a combatant ship type it falls with in you HR. However, the use of a coastal ship type of durability rating 1 operating independently 400 miles or more from the nearest coast seems a bit of a stretch.

For the Allies, sending short legged durability rating 1 ship types any significant distance across blue water necessitates teaming them with longer legged, higher durabilty ship types.

I'm not wagging any fingers of "shouldn't have", just explaining my take on why Joc seemed so put out over it.


I'm positive your assessment is right on.

The difference in our perception seems to be due to how I have learned to view certain ships based on use by the IJN. The main point as I saw it was that this type would have a naval crew rather than a merchant crew, but historically they did use pickets of these ship types at least up to 650 miles from port. Some were even smaller and less convincingly either 'combat' or 'ships.'

The only Allied minesweeper I've had direct contact with was a Bathurst Class, the HMAS Castlemaine in Melbourne. That feels very much like a combat ship. The Allied AMc seem to be little more than tugs or motor launches in some cases. I think there is a difference with the IJN.

The picket I used has acceptable range for use in ocean areas, at 2100. If it had been converted to a PB, (meaning only that it would have had + 2 x 13.2 mm MG + 1 x Type 95 DC) would he feel differently about it's appropriateness? In our conversation I did mention all of this, but he didn't really respond to it and just seemed annoyed. I get that, and I want to make sure we're on the same page. Pickets aren't a major part of my strategy either. I have only a handful in the Pacific and none in other areas.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I actually think it's a pretty interesting item to discuss. The designations we use in game are Allied. They only apply loosely to the IJN types and get especially murky when concerning the auxiliary ships converted to many uses from a few basic types of merchants. The US sub chaser vessels were certainly not large and you wouldn't think they would be great for crossing the Pacific, but many players use them as escorts doing just that. It seems to me that if the capability to be in those waters consistently is there, and the ship is a naval designation, then it could be an early warning picket. If this seems odd I'd love to hear where others would draw the line.

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Post #: 1439
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/20/2013 11:11:25 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I think the best plane to "overproduce" is the Oscar IV. 360 mph fast (decent), armour, 2x250 kg bombs (Kami) and 2 Ho-5 cannons in the centerline...better than a Frank r. This is probably the most versatile late war allied fighter. It has enough firepower to be able to shoot down a 4E, can be a great Kami, has a SR=1 and it's only 16 mph slower than the Tojo "c".... not bad


I'm really looking forward to seeing the difference those 2 Ho-5 make for this plane. It's slow, but still, the maneuver will help a bit and the versatility is great as you say.

Pax warned me a while back not to expect too much with that speed as most of the Allied fighters will be 50-80mph faster by the time it arrives. Aside from the slow speed, it's other achilles is it's low durability. Always the concern with the Oscar.

But ... if it can't perform as a fighter, just crash a few hundred into an air combat TF!


When you are trying to defend atolls ... actually anything smaller than Formosa (4AF's tied with RR), you have to use fighters with SR=<2. That means 1st or 2nd gen fighters. The problem is with the SR >=3 fighters is that you can't rotate them or get them enough rest. Once the allied bombers break through, that group is lost. With SR1 and SR2 fighters, you have a chance to recover many of them as the AF repairs. So this means Oscar/Tojo and Zero/George/Jack.

Against Bolts/Spits/Corsairs you are going to lose a lot of these early gen fighters (and pilots) trying to contest an atoll. I pick my places very carefully to make a stand becuase is it going to cost a lot. Now if it is just Hellcats, then it isn't so bad. Tojo and George/Jack can match up to the Hellcat ok. I transition a lot of groups around the map in '43. Tojo/George groups move to Pac Atolls that I have decided to defend with vigor. Frank groups upgraded from Oscar move to the Burma/DEI. IJN groups can't upgrade from George until Sam, and that is way far off in '43/'44. So some of these IJN groups will remain in the DEI for a while.

Oscar IV is a possible atoll defender. But, I generally have so many Tojo's from groups that have upgraded to Frank that I'm not building any more 1st gen fighters. I generally have stopped building Oscar in 42 with the Oscar IIA. Shortly after the Frank arrives and sure only 10 hex range, but that's only one hex short of the Helen full load range (11). Close enough for me. Yeah, the 2x20mm cl is better than the Tojo, but at 360mph against the Spit/Bolt +430mph they are both gonna die.* Why special build something when you have lot's of the other on hand?.

*Assuming the allied player and IJ player are comparable skill and are proficient with their air deployment tactics.


< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 2/20/2013 11:32:41 PM >


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