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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 6:31:37 PM   
Lowpe


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Thanks for the night fighter info. That is a lot of stuff to think on.

(in reply to obvert)
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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 7:28:20 PM   
witpqs


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Have you and Joc looked at the Sunk Ships utility that I published? It takes a CSV output from Tracker and formats it into a text file that is suitable for attaching to a forum post. It might be easier to deal with than the screen shots. Look on the Staff Monkeys site (see my sig).

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 7:48:16 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Have you and Joc looked at the Sunk Ships utility that I published? It takes a CSV output from Tracker and formats it into a text file that is suitable for attaching to a forum post. It might be easier to deal with than the screen shots. Look on the Staff Monkeys site (see my sig).


I haven't even gotten staff monkey to work, but I'll try again now that I have more time to fiddle. I'll need it if I want to play the Allies again.

The one thing I like is the format fro game agains the brownish background, with the yellow text. Much prefer it to the tracker, white data look.

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 7:59:02 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

PP is kind of deceptive. It is easy for the Japanese to achieve 2-1 and even 3-1. There are not enough points on the map in the regular expansion zone to get to 4-1.

So it requires special circumstances to be able to achieve.

Also, against an aggressive allied player the Japanese should not be able to hold all the territory they take in 1942.

You have to win big points in naval, LCU or airpower to get over the hump.


Here is a screen from 6-42. Chungking was worth 1600 VP for IJ and -800 for Allies at this stage. Perth was worth I believe another 600 for the IJ. Add in lost armies from China and that is well over 4:1. 22242 + 2200 = 24442. 6731 - 800 = 5931.

4.12:1

Now, I would have had to really push in both places, assigning a lot of other troops that were in Burma, So Pac and other areas to OZ and buying out more from Manchuria for China. There would have been opportunities for the Allies to come back, take some valuable stuff like Noumea back, and CV clashes would have to go very well not to disrupt the balance sheet to keep a 4:1 if it was achievable.

Plus, I didn't want that kind of a game.





So I'd say you won in 6/1942 and continued playing out of the goodness of your heart .

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Post #: 3484
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 7:59:30 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Have you and Joc looked at the Sunk Ships utility that I published? It takes a CSV output from Tracker and formats it into a text file that is suitable for attaching to a forum post. It might be easier to deal with than the screen shots. Look on the Staff Monkeys site (see my sig).


Did not know that existed. I will have to check it out to see if it's snazzy.

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Post #: 3485
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 8:10:04 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

PP is kind of deceptive. It is easy for the Japanese to achieve 2-1 and even 3-1. There are not enough points on the map in the regular expansion zone to get to 4-1.

So it requires special circumstances to be able to achieve.

Also, against an aggressive allied player the Japanese should not be able to hold all the territory they take in 1942.

You have to win big points in naval, LCU or airpower to get over the hump.


Here is a screen from 6-42. Chungking was worth 1600 VP for IJ and -800 for Allies at this stage. Perth was worth I believe another 600 for the IJ. Add in lost armies from China and that is well over 4:1. 22242 + 2200 = 24442. 6731 - 800 = 5931.

4.12:1

Now, I would have had to really push in both places, assigning a lot of other troops that were in Burma, So Pac and other areas to OZ and buying out more from Manchuria for China. There would have been opportunities for the Allies to come back, take some valuable stuff like Noumea back, and CV clashes would have to go very well not to disrupt the balance sheet to keep a 4:1 if it was achievable.

Plus, I didn't want that kind of a game.



So I'd say you won in 6/1942 and continued playing out of the goodness of your heart .


Not really. It was a long way to 1/43. Jocke is a resourceful guy, and he's good with his back against the wall. He would have gone for it, getting Noumea and perhaps even looking for a CV battle that I'd have to win 4:1. Now, in our first CV clash I lost, probably about 1:1.5 in points terms, so that could have ruined the whole idea right there.

Also he would have built everything on the board to level 9 fields/ports, so his points would have kept going up while I would have had to keep taking stuff at a higher rate to keep up.

The main thing is though that we weren't playing with winning as the only goal. I would have been pretty disappointed to play through 42 and have the game end, and I think Jocke would have been too. We'd agreed to play without VPs and we did, happily.

I only included this to point out the interesting things I would now want to play through with VPs involved. I wouldn't still want to win early on VPs necessarily in a future game, but I do like what it makes both players do to avoid 'losing.'

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3486
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 8:30:07 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Here is a screen from 6-42. Chungking was worth 1600 VP for IJ and -800 for Allies at this stage. Perth was worth I believe another 600 for the IJ. Add in lost armies from China and that is well over 4:1. 22242 + 2200 = 24442. 6731 - 800 = 5931.

4.12:1

Now, I would have had to really push in both places, assigning a lot of other troops that were in Burma, So Pac and other areas to OZ and buying out more from Manchuria for China. There would have been opportunities for the Allies to come back, take some valuable stuff like Noumea back, and CV clashes would have to go very well not to disrupt the balance sheet to keep a 4:1 if it was achievable.

Plus, I didn't want that kind of a game.


Yes, but the other (uncaptured) Chinese cities in the North and around the Chungking plains / route to Burma are worthy goals as well. You don't necessarily have to take Chungking before January 1, 1943 to get to 4:1.

Not sure what you mean by "that kind of game". Can you elaborate?



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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 8:33:01 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The main thing is though that we weren't playing with winning as the only goal. I would have been pretty disappointed to play through 42 and have the game end, and I think Jocke would have been too. We'd agreed to play without VPs and we did, happily.

I only included this to point out the interesting things I would now want to play through with VPs involved. I wouldn't still want to win early on VPs necessarily in a future game, but I do like what it makes both players do to avoid 'losing.'


Should have read this first...

Since one can 'play through' autovictory, that is my goal. Get to the requisite point wherein I could win outright and play through it. This necessitates a massive strategic pivot on January 2, 1943, as you can imagine. That's what I'm looking forward to, quite frankly.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 9:19:10 PM   
jonreb31


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Allied BB/CA/CL LOSSES
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This report was a bit more confusing when I matched up Jocke's and mine. l looked into the AAR and I found confirmed sinkings for the ships on my version from the distant dates in 42/43. The more recent ones are FOW. So this makes it seem that the game reports will eventually show exact results, after a year or so, but in the short term they are highly subject to FOW.

October 14, 1942 report. Mauritius and Raleigh definitely sunk in a raid on Suva.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3114172

I remember Boise going down, as that was after our second CV clash, and it ran up to hit the KB in a seemingly never ending barrage, was hit by airstrikes the next day, and still needed a BB hit to take her down on the day following!

Anyway, interesting to see how the FOW works.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[picture]



Always a good thing when you can get a confirmed-kill on the Boise


< Message edited by JonReb -- 3/14/2014 11:50:46 PM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/14/2014 11:27:23 PM   
FeurerKrieg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Can you share some of your night fighter thoughts?



In addition to what obvert just posted, there was a extensive discussion about night fighters a few pages back as well.

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Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net and www.skybirdart.com, copyright John Meeks

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Post #: 3490
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/15/2014 12:17:25 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The main thing is though that we weren't playing with winning as the only goal. I would have been pretty disappointed to play through 42 and have the game end, and I think Jocke would have been too. We'd agreed to play without VPs and we did, happily.

I only included this to point out the interesting things I would now want to play through with VPs involved. I wouldn't still want to win early on VPs necessarily in a future game, but I do like what it makes both players do to avoid 'losing.'


Should have read this first...

Since one can 'play through' autovictory, that is my goal. Get to the requisite point wherein I could win outright and play through it. This necessitates a massive strategic pivot on January 2, 1943, as you can imagine. That's what I'm looking forward to, quite frankly.


Yes, if your opponent is still in it with you and wants to go on. From what I've heard it's pretty tough to be sitting at 1:4 and trying to imagine continuing.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3491
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/15/2014 12:15:52 PM   
Lowpe


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How about Frances?




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3492
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/15/2014 11:33:53 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

How about Frances?



Sorry, I accidentally wrote Peggy in the earlier post and meant Frances. I didn't try the Peggy as it doesn't have much to shoot with. The 75mm won't hit anything.

The Frances has radar which kind of seems to negate the fact that it's a lot slower than the B-29s. It also uses an engine I had over a thousand of in the end.

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/16/2014 12:35:07 AM >


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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 2:47:36 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hikotai
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In the beginning of this game I decided to follow or document units of different types to see how they influenced the campaign, where they went and what they did. While the naval units were all sunk by the end of game and the 14th tank regiment was stuck in the Central Pacific on Kweijalen atoll, the original Tainan Ku S-1 moved around, transformed once in size and twice in name, and was still heavily involved in the air battles over Korea and the HI to the end.

Here is some history. I'll potentially add more when I have time to get a full tracker update for the game by reloading it all into a new tracker. For now there is a lot I already posted and just wanted to compile in one place.

One pilot, Ishi-I, S, began with the group and survived the war! He did get wounded at some point in 44, and came back with slightly reduced experience, but built it back to 88 at the end. He only had 2 kills however.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/20/2014 3:48:20 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 2:50:24 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hokutai (continued)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is the group in the earliest shot I have when they were based at Vigan. Notice Ishi-I, S there in the beginning. I don't think many of the others made it to the end.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3495
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 2:52:44 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hokutai (continued)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'll just post here some successive views of the group, pilots and the tracker bits I have to show where they were based. Interesting to see this group took part in many of the major early parts of the campaign. The kill totals went up very quickly!

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 2:54:19 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hokutai (continued)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

By 4-42 they were in Burma trying in vain to protect the oil.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 2:56:07 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hokutai (continued)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This was always the first group to get new airframes as they became available, including the not much used A6M3 in 6/42.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3498
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 2:59:26 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hokutai (continued)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This shows the early history of the group and pilots.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3499
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 3:00:49 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hokutai (continued)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

By 43 they were using A6M5.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 3:03:14 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hokutai (continued)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In late 43 they were the first group to get the George as well, but by this point kills were getting increasingly hard to achieve. The group also reduced to size 18 and therefore was put into a defensive role exclusively. This looks to have been the period where Ishi-I, S was injured.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/20/2014 4:07:05 PM >


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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/20/2014 3:06:16 PM   
obvert


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TAINAN Ku S-1 > 251 Ku S-1 > S-901 Hokutai (continued)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

By the end, upgraded to Sams the 901 was still playing an important part, but I couldn't get enough made J7M to make them really scary again, which had been the plan!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 12/17/2016 7:40:42 AM   
obvert


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Just bumping this so I can look at my end of game pages more quickly for the R & D thread

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