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RE: Wild Sheep Chase

 
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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/28/2014 9:55:57 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
The Allied fleet is moving North again. These Annes are a god sacrificial early warning system. Much better than search. Also this tells me quite a few CV/CVEs are not here now that were last time!

This CAP is much more manageable. If they keep heading North, I'll get things ready. I may not pull the trigger, but it certainly seems like a good time to try.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3361
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/28/2014 9:58:25 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
The Allies DA again at Gunzan!!!

Arrgggg. One more day and forts would have been at level 2. After the turn they went back to level 1. not a bad result though. We lost around 3k casualties, but at the price of 1500 Allied casualties and 255 vehicles destroyed, 700+ disabled!!!

Makes me think he set the tanks to go it alone, but they only a got a 1:4, and this should set them back a bit!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3362
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/28/2014 3:48:10 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
18 June 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

KOREA: No 4E runs today, but the Allies try a surprise DA, most likely with just armored units as the troop losses are low and the vehicle losses through the roof! This was good, as even if those are just the tanks units, it likely means everything has to wait to try again for a good few days. I have been wrong before though.

STRAT BOMBING: Nothing today.

HOME ISLANDS: Sweeps hitting Kagoshima down 36 japanese planes for the loss of ~30 P-47D. Not bad at all. These groups will be in Nagasaki next turn recouping, and all groups at Kumamoto wil also move back in case the N version comes out to play.

Tokyo HI is now making supply at a generous 2200/day! This and Osaka's 1400/day will give us a little boost to hopefully get things in the final viable month of the war for a fully active defense of the Home Islands.

The Allied fleets are moving, most likely adding supply and troops to Korea. The CAP is a paltry 682 planes!!! That is significantly less than recent forays up here. Those pilots are good now after shooting down 2,000 or so Japanese planes, so it will not be easy to break through, especially considering the KB pilots are not all as strong as in recent attacks. This may not be the moment for the final battle If I can get the 4 repairing CVs out and ready and have all LBA updated and set, in about a month things might be better. Of course some new Allied CVs and repaired ones might be back too.

CHINA: The Allied tanks beat our troops to the plus 3 territory, but roadblocks are aiming to go up just behind that. I hope there is enough to hold. Looks like this is not the full force, but recon has been wrong before.

The mostly Chinese GODZILLA STACK takes out Henyang.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 18, 45 - MORNING
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 27
Ki-84r Frank x 58

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 5 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 18
Ki-84r Frank x 49

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 2 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 10
Ki-84r Frank x 30

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 5
Ki-84r Frank x 20

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Nago at 93,61

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-30 Ann x 4

Allied aircraft ------------------------- CAP is 'only' 682 planes!

Corsair II x 20
Corsair IV x 108
Seafire IIC x 1
Seafire L.III x 23
F4U-1A Corsair x 159
F4U-1D Corsair x 371

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-30 Ann: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 18, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Masan (102,54)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 67612 troops, 1300 guns, 1128 vehicles, Assault Value = 2642

Defending force 121135 troops, 1663 guns, 407 vehicles, Assault Value = 4130

Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Gunzan (102,52)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 112129 troops, 1839 guns, 4327 vehicles, Assault Value = 4879

Defending force 211398 troops, 2675 guns, 1246 vehicles, Assault Value = 7040

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Allied adjusted assault: 1065

Japanese adjusted defense: 4936

Allied assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3129 casualties reported
Squads: 46 destroyed, 310 disabled

Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 31 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 19 disabled
Guns lost 54 (6 destroyed, 48 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1546 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 100 disabled
Non Combat: 102 destroyed, 379 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 136 (31 destroyed, 105 disabled)
Vehicles lost 983 (229 destroyed, 754 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hengyang (80,53)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 379473 troops, 2179 guns, 287 vehicles, Assault Value = 13696

Defending force 19000 troops, 146 guns, 193 vehicles, Assault Value = 328

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied adjusted assault: 7403

Japanese adjusted defense: 38

Allied assault odds: 194 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Hengyang !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
6428 casualties reported
Squads: 373 destroyed, 50 disabled
Non Combat: 525 destroyed, 68 disabled
Engineers: 38 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 127 (83 destroyed, 44 disabled)
Vehicles lost 133 (133 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 17
Units destroyed 3


Allied ground losses:
2735 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 439 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 26 disabled
Guns lost 30 (1 destroyed, 29 disabled)


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
85th Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
7th Chinese Corps
23rd Chinese Corps
16th Chindit Brigade
65th Chinese Corps
18th Chinese Corps
62nd Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
40th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
11th (East African) Division
64th Chinese Corps
8th Chinese Corps
11th Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Corps
25th Chinese Corps
52nd Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
6th New Chinese Corps
71st Chinese Corps
53rd Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
13th Chinese Corps
150th RAC Regiment
1st Prov Chinese Corps
15th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
63rd Chinese Corps
19th Chinese Corps
43rd Chinese Corps
81st (West African) Division
2nd Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Corps
27th Chinese Corps
30th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
49th Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
83rd Chinese Corps
70th Chinese Corps
68th Chinese Corps
66th Chinese Corps Corps
2nd Prov Chinese Corps
3rd War Area
225 Group RAF
6th Group Army
33rd Group Army
XV Corps RIASC Base Force
27th Group Army
I/14th Army RIASC Base Force
Z' Force
41st USN Naval Construction Battalion
20th Group Army
43rd USN Naval Construction Battalion
23rd Group Army
22nd Group Army
17th Chinese Base Force
10th Group Army
29th Group Army
30th Group Army
12th Group Army
17th Group Army
36th Group Army
243 Wing
39th Group Army
1st Group Army
Central Reserve
Jingcha War Area
2nd War Area
26th Group Army
4th Group Army
7th Group Army
37th Group Army
11th Group Army
24th Group Army
1st War Area
114th RN Base Force
7th War Area
13th Group Army
345 Wing
35th Group Army
31st Group Army
Lusu War Area
120th RAF Base Force
8th Group Army
9th Group Army
18th Group Army
7th Construction Regiment
5th War Area
IV Corps RIASC Base Force
1883rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
858th Engineer Aviation Battalion
19th Group Army
16th Group Army
3209th RAF SCU Base Force
113th RN Base Force
14th Group Army
18th Chinese Base Force
25th Group Army
9th War Area
Red Chinese Army
3rd Group Army
5th Group Army
CCAHQ
2nd Group Army
126th RAF Base Force
6th War Area
848th Engineer Aviation Battalion

Defending units:
5th Garrison Unit
35th Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
8th RGC Route Brigade
6th Ind.Infantry Brigade
5th NCPC Infantry Brigade
11th RGC Temp./A Division
53rd Field AA Battalion
55th Construction Battalion
21st Air Defense AA Battalion
35th Army
6th Shipping Engineer Regiment
19th JNAF AF Unit
70th JAAF AF Bn
7th Area Army
14th Naval Construction Battalion
29th Army
17th Army
14th JAAF AF Bn
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Bn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

293rd Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
294th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
59th Army arrives at Hiroshima/Kure
Tokai JNAF Base Force arrives at Nagoya


Losses:



Ships Sunk:

APA Harry Lee is reported to have been sunk near Amami Oshima on Apr 05, 1945
xAK Sea Barb is reported to have been sunk near Saipan on Oct 08, 1944
Previous report of sinking of SST Nautilus incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is a list of the CV/CVL/CVE groups on the Allied fleet flying CAP right now. This is 20 ships total, but there may be more if he's not flying CAP from them all. A pretty decent list though!

CV - USS Hancock - VF-7
CV - USS Essex - VF-9
CV - unkonwn - VF-11 (Hornet II group - some skandi named CV)
CV - USS Randolph - VBF-12
CV - unknown - VF-14 (Wasp II group - another norse god name)
CV - USS Bennington - VBF-82
CV - USS Bonhomme Richard - VF-83
CV - HMS Implacable - No.801 Sqn FAA
CV - HMS Formidable - No.888 Sqn FAA
CV - HMS Indomitable - No.800 Sqn FAA and No.880 Sqn FAA
CVL - USS Belleau Wood- VF-24
CVL - USS Monterey - VF-30
CVL - USS Bataan - VF-50
CVL - HMS Pioneer - No.1835 Sqn FAA
CVE - HMS Tracker - No.1842 Sqn FAA
CVE - USS Kadashan Bay - VCF-20
CVE - HMS Pursuer - No.723 Sqn FAA
CVE - HMS Attacker - No.879 Sqn FAA
CVE - HMS Shah - No.851 Sqn-FF FAA

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/1/2014 9:54:42 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3363
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/28/2014 4:05:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8688
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
Re the Gunzan attack.

You didn't include the LCU list, but late-war Allied units are very truck-heavy, so if any of the LCUs were IDs it's a good bet a lot of those losses are trucks. I wish the CR split out AFVs from other motorized, but it doesn't. It seems unlikely that most of those numbers were actual tanks. The late-war models are pretty robust.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3364
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/28/2014 4:26:15 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Re the Gunzan attack.

You didn't include the LCU list, but late-war Allied units are very truck-heavy, so if any of the LCUs were IDs it's a good bet a lot of those losses are trucks. I wish the CR split out AFVs from other motorized, but it doesn't. It seems unlikely that most of those numbers were actual tanks. The late-war models are pretty robust.


There are plenty of divisions there (look back a few posts for the complete list if curious), but the units attacking are almost surely just the armor based on the results. Those units probably have a lot of motorized support as well, so it could be all trucks for all I know. Whatever it is, it's almost a 1,000 of them, which seems like it'll have an adverse affect on those units and keep them from attacking for a little while at least.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/28/2014 5:27:27 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 3365
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/1/2014 3:23:37 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
19 - 20 June 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

KOREA: Some shifts here, as the forts are now built to 2, and so I'll move some units back between Masan and Gunzen in support of both in a 4 day move. Also this hex is good for fixing up shattered units and getting supply to some as well. They of course draw in the field but won't in base.

Amazing that I'm still cruising through commanders and finding some not so good ones, and replacing them with stellar ones. I wish this stack had supply, because the troops are very experienced now, and a few in articular are 80+ with some of the best generals on the map. How do the IJA have so many good generals anyway?

STRAT BOMBING: Bye Bye NF! A big raid takes out the entire 40 plane factory for the Irvings. I have some in pool, and a good number of other types that should be fine for 2-3 months. The A6M NF are plentiful and still actively producing, and there a bunch of the Frances NF as well, which is surprisingly effective.

The Nick Id NF finally got some Ha-31 engines and has been producing for the past 3 months, so a few units have that one now too. It has not yet been tested in combat, but will probably be as poor as the Dinah. The Randy Ic is due to produce in about 10 days, but will probably be torched before it gets going unfortunately. Another one I'd just like to try out, so fingers crossed.

HOME ISLANDS: Getting some supply moving now. That's good.

CHINA: The Allied armor reaches our 1k AV army in a +2 rough hex. Hopefully this is not the whole meal deal that ransacked Changsha. I put some bombers on to disrupt if they go immediately and blind without a bombardment. Fingers crossed. Just gotta hold one day here really. Another 2k AV two days away, and something of a surprise coming up the back roads as well!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 19, 45 - NIGHT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Maebashi , at 113,59

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5d-S Zero x 1
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 8

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 25
B-29B Superfort x 39

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

J1N1-Sa Irving factory hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 8000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Maebashi , at 113,59

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5d-S Zero x 4
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 8

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 13
B-29B Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5d-S Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 2 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 8000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Sian , at 83,41

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 18

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 18

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 19, 45 - AFTERNOON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on 12th Division, at 102,52 (Gunzan)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 31

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
246 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 6 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 3rd Special Base Force, at 102,52 (Gunzan)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 12
Liberator GR.VI x 4
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 4
B-24J Liberator x 69
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 15

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 1 damaged
Liberator GR.VI: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
895 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 47 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 51 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 6 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
7 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 19, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Masan (102,54)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 67620 troops, 1300 guns, 1128 vehicles, Assault Value = 2642

Defending force 95711 troops, 1417 guns, 365 vehicles, Assault Value = 3221

Japanese ground losses:
189 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
Americal Infantry Division
33rd Infantry Division
6th Marine Division
2nd Marine Division
81st Infantry Division
34th Combat Engineer Regiment
3rd Marine Division
XXIV US Corps
10th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment
X US Corps
4th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
12th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
251st Field Artillery Battalion
Tenth US Army
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
I US Corps
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
V US Amphib Corps
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
148th Field Artillery Battalion

Defending units:
122nd Division
111th Division
68th Brigade
140th Infantry Regiment
96th Division
120th Division
150th Division
127th Division
78th Infantry Regiment
30th Infantry Regiment
16th Garrison Unit
160th Division
87th Infantry Regiment
94th Division
77th Infantry Regiment
109th Division
105th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Yosu Fortress
14th Area Army
28th Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Mortar Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
71st Mountain Gun Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
26th Field Artillery Regiment
15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
31st RF Gun Battalion
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
30th RF Gun Battalion
2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
17th Mortar Battalion
34th Army
29th RF Gun Battalion
10th Mortar Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 20, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Gunzan (102,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 3532 troops, 291 guns, 262 vehicles, Assault Value = 4611

Defending force 242879 troops, 3029 guns, 1323 vehicles, Assault Value = 7883

Japanese ground losses:
412 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 19 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 8 (4 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 29 (10 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: These flight schools are some BIG fighter groups! 81 and 65 planes. Very useful. Ki-83 are now repairing and the best pilots being transferred. About a week until both are active, and this will leave about 130-40 Ki-83 in the pools to use for the next 50 days or so.

Akeno Flght.Schl. arrives at Tokyo
Hitachi Flght.Schl. arrives at Nagasaki/Sasebo
185th Shinbu-tai arrives at Matsuyama
186th Shinbu-tai arrives at Matsuyama


Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

DD Thompson is reported to have been sunk near Nagasaki/Sasebo on May 15, 1945
Previous report of sinking of CVE Kadashan Bay incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
Previous report of sinking of CA Tuscaloosa incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
Previous report of sinking of SS Growler incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Tokyo and Osaka going all out for a few days!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/1/2014 9:53:45 PM >


_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3366
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/1/2014 4:04:11 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 4334
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

DD Thompson is reported to have been sunk near Nagasaki/Sasebo on May 15, 1945
Previous report of sinking of CVE Kadashan Bay incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
Previous report of sinking of CA Tuscaloosa incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
Previous report of sinking of SS Growler incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service


For once the resurrections far outweigh the reported deaths.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3367
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/1/2014 4:16:40 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

DD Thompson is reported to have been sunk near Nagasaki/Sasebo on May 15, 1945
Previous report of sinking of CVE Kadashan Bay incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
Previous report of sinking of CA Tuscaloosa incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
Previous report of sinking of SS Growler incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service


For once the resurrections far outweigh the reported deaths.


Pretty standard for me. Often the resurrections are actually just mistaken identity, and another ship goes on the list but not in the CR. Love the mystery of it all, and looking forward now to the moment of 'truth' at the end, soon, when I'll really know more about what happened.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 3368
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/1/2014 8:49:38 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
21 June 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

KOREA: Just another bombardment here. The Allies land something; supply or reinforcements, and from night search and naval movement it looks like it was well protected by the fleet. The CVs are a few hexes off of Moppo and holding. They haven't hit any of the shipping around Fusan or Nagasaki, so they must have a restricted strike range. Flirting with danger again. I could have hit with 5 CVs this turn, but I'll wait for a better opportunity later, hopefully with more.

The Moppo airfield is in full operation now. About 600 fighters sitting there. We'll see what they do to us tomorrow.

STRAT BOMBING: More Frank factories burned up, and a small Sam factory as well, at Gifu. A good NF contingent showed up, downing around 5-7 B-29s, but it's just not enough anymore to stop the bleeding. He's also stepping up the schedule, as they've been active almost every other day.

HOME ISLANDS: No day sweeps here, but with 600 fighters in Moppo, I can expect some soon, at close range.

CHINA: Things worked well here this turn. The Peggys and Graces hit the Allied forward tank army, but the damage was light and it wasn't really needed as they bombarded anyway. Looks like most of them, around 1650AV. If they DA tomorrow it'll be interesting. Tanks are moving behind and will enter the hex to close it in two turns if no counter is attempted. What happens if both move at the same time? Who goes first?

Either way it could be tight for the Allies as I'll own the hex behind as well, and with another 800 AV of a tank division and a full infantry division in +3 territory. Maybe I've just trapped a small Allied army? Not sure I can kill it off if I have, as those tanks will be tough, especially if they do move back to the +3, but it's fun anyway!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 21, 45 - NIGHT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Gifu , at 110,59

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5d-S Zero x 5
J1N1-S Irving x 11
J1N1-Sa Irving x 6
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 19

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 40
B-29B Superfort x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 3 destroyed
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 9 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 2 damaged

Ki-84r Frank factory hits 2
A7M2 Sam factory hits 4


Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 8000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 21, 45 - MORNING
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 17th Motorised Division, at 88,55 , near Chuhsien

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 6 damaged
B7A2 Grace: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied ground losses:
62 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B7A2 Grace releasing from 3000'
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 255th Indian Tank Brigade, at 88,55 , near Chuhsien

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 3
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 29

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 2 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 6 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 18th Cavalry Regiment, at 88,55 , near Chuhsien

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 12
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 3 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 6 damaged

Allied ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 35th Division, at 81,52 (Siangtan)

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 5
Thunderbolt II x 8
A-26B Invader x 18
B-25D1 Mitchell x 30
B-25G Mitchell x 3
B-25H Mitchell x 45
B-25J1 Mitchell x 69
B-25J11 Mitchell x 101
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 3
PBJ-1J Mitchell x 17
PV-1 Ventura x 3

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
1656 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 56 disabled
Non Combat: 30 destroyed, 204 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 26 (7 destroyed, 19 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
14 x PBJ-1J Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 21, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Gunzan (102,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 3470 troops, 283 guns, 260 vehicles, Assault Value = 4711

Defending force 243113 troops, 3016 guns, 1323 vehicles, Assault Value = 7903

Japanese ground losses:
203 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 10 (2 destroyed, 8 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 88,55 (near Chuhsien)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2856 troops, 18 guns, 282 vehicles, Assault Value = 1658

Defending force 25255 troops, 187 guns, 40 vehicles, Assault Value = 907

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
Provisionl Tank Brigade
Gardner's Horse Regiment
19th Motorised Division
255th Indian Tank Brigade
Guides Cavalry Regiment
18th Cavalry Regiment
50th Tank Brigade
254th Armoured Brigade
17th Motorised Division

Defending units:
88th Infantry Brigade
13th Division
72nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
71st Ind.Mixed Brigade
43rd Army

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Siangtan (81,52)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 204630 troops, 1304 guns, 162 vehicles, Assault Value = 11205

Defending force 25109 troops, 227 guns, 84 vehicles, Assault Value = 287

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 4319

Japanese adjusted defense: 16

Allied assault odds: 269 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Siangtan !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
11460 casualties reported
Squads: 645 destroyed, 40 disabled
Non Combat: 1319 destroyed, 27 disabled
Engineers: 22 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 178 (169 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 74 (74 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 18
Units destroyed 9


Allied ground losses:
918 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 193 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

Shichisho Shin-tai arrives at Tokyo

Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

Previous report of sinking of SS Shark II incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
CVE Attacker is reported to have been sunk near Keijo on Jun 01, 1945

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The B-29-25 and the B-29B teamed together are potent. The fully gunned version fights off the NF and the double loaded ones cream the factories.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/1/2014 9:50:39 PM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 3369
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 12:02:58 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
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22 June 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

KOREA: Another very quiet turn as the Allies hang out near Korea, but don't do anything. Yet.

STRAT BOMBING: A day off. Much needed.

HOME ISLANDS: Just twiddling with pilots and air groups. Trying to ditch as many LB training groups as I can and skimming pilots from the fighter training groups to fill out other units.

CHINA: No attack today. Instead the Allied tanks turn tail and make for the +3 hex to their rear. Our tank division moved in to claim the hex, and an infantry division will be moving in shortly with an RF battalion and an arty unit. The units in hex with the tanks now will move up as soon as they leave the hex. Looks like the Allies have moved over a hex side opener unit that is nearing our block, so we won't get a shot to trap anyone, but did lock the door on the Shanghai area through this route until the big stacks arrive soon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 22, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Gunzan (102,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 98137 troops, 1969 guns, 1809 vehicles, Assault Value = 4777

Defending force 243685 troops, 3008 guns, 1321 vehicles, Assault Value = 7955

Japanese ground losses:
504 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 46 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
249 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wuchang (84,51)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 12301 troops, 176 guns, 130 vehicles, Assault Value = 508

Defending force 6754 troops, 70 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 218

Assaulting units:
6th Australian Division

Defending units:
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
90th JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: none.

Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

Previous report of sinking of DD Kempenfelt incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I had the option to move in this turn and try to lock the tanks in place, but I decided not to risk giving up the +3 hex. I can hold there and have lots of chances to maneuver back if needed later.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/2/2014 1:03:50 AM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 1:13:07 AM   
ny59giants


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I wonder in other PBEMs that the Allies don't go for NF factories early on to allow the B-29s more freedom in going after the modern fighters afterwards.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 5:30:02 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I wonder in other PBEMs that the Allies don't go for NF factories early on to allow the B-29s more freedom in going after the modern fighters afterwards.


He tried earlier a bit, but wasn't as successful from longer range and without the B-29B. That bomb load seems to be the key, because once he had that he is able to hit anything in one turn, regardless of defenses. The way the code works favors bombers with a bigger load to get a hit, regardless of how many there are, or at least it sure seems that way. He's sent 200-300 B-24 with no results at similar targets, but he can have 50 B-29B and wipe an aircraft factory completely, with NF up, bad weather, low moon and flak.

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Post #: 3372
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 11:45:17 AM   
Wargmr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I wonder in other PBEMs that the Allies don't go for NF factories early on to allow the B-29s more freedom in going after the modern fighters afterwards.


He tried earlier a bit, but wasn't as successful from longer range and without the B-29B. That bomb load seems to be the key, because once he had that he is able to hit anything in one turn, regardless of defenses. The way the code works favors bombers with a bigger load to get a hit, regardless of how many there are, or at least it sure seems that way. He's sent 200-300 B-24 with no results at similar targets, but he can have 50 B-29B and wipe an aircraft factory completely, with NF up, bad weather, low moon and flak.


B17's have a load of 6000, Liberators 8000, B29's 20,000 bomb load. So almost 4 times the amount of bomb load a B-17 can carry. I am willing to bet that the delivery systems (accuracy) are better too.


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Post #: 3373
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 1:40:26 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I wonder in other PBEMs that the Allies don't go for NF factories early on to allow the B-29s more freedom in going after the modern fighters afterwards.


He tried earlier a bit, but wasn't as successful from longer range and without the B-29B. That bomb load seems to be the key, because once he had that he is able to hit anything in one turn, regardless of defenses. The way the code works favors bombers with a bigger load to get a hit, regardless of how many there are, or at least it sure seems that way. He's sent 200-300 B-24 with no results at similar targets, but he can have 50 B-29B and wipe an aircraft factory completely, with NF up, bad weather, low moon and flak.


B17's have a load of 6000, Liberators 8000, B29's 20,000 bomb load. So almost 4 times the amount of bomb load a B-17 can carry. I am willing to bet that the delivery systems (accuracy) are better too.



There is no accuracy difference in level bombing that I know of. What would control this in airframes in game?

I think you're missing the point I'm making here, which is that you could have the equal amount of bombs dropped by any number of planes, but those planes with more per plane will get more hits. The B-29s should be effective, I'm not arguing against that. Night bombing in game is simply not quite right, and even daylight bombing has some problems, and those seem to stem from bomb load and targeting. The percentage chance for a hit doesn't seem to go down as more is destroyed on the ground, (which it certainly should for any item in multiple, like troops, planes or ships), but as I mentioned, 200-300 Allied 4E of any other type most likely won't get even 1 hit when 50-70 B-29B will get hits in the same circumstances.

300 x 8,000 = 2,400,000

70 x 20,000 = 1,400,000

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 3:28:52 PM   
witpqs


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I think most of what you said is right, but I have a lot of trouble accepting that 200-300 of any other 4E is lucky to get one hit, even with an equal amount of bombs. Are you basing that on sand-boxing, or on the game with Joc? Because - while I have no idea what Joc has done - it makes sense to move the best bomber pilots to the B-29s as they arrive. And that might greatly skew what you see in-game. Especially if you did not have enough 'trained' bomber pilots to refill those other 4EB squadrons. In fact, in the middle of 1945 (I am not there yet) I imagine it's pretty easy to run low on trained pilots for 4EB. Remember that even though pilot experience is very high for new USA pilots at that point, the additional skills were not programmed until AE, and there are none reflected in the pilots database. The skill assignments come from some formula in the game code that is driven by the experience rating. A newly arriving USA pilot, even late game with "high" experience is not going to arrive with 70+ bombing skill. And any pilots transferred to the B-29 groups have a good chance of being well above that mark.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 3/2/2014 4:29:25 PM >


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Post #: 3375
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 3:53:38 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I think most of what you said is right, but I have a lot of trouble accepting that 200-300 of any other 4E is lucky to get one hit, even with an equal amount of bombs. Are you basing that on sand-boxing, or on the game with Joc?


I am basing on the game, but his 4Es have no trouble hitting other targets with a high level of effectiveness. I would seriously doubt it's pilots. I just think the is how the game works. Hence why so many people think night bombing is messed up, ground bombing of troops produces wildly unrealistic results, and why you can bomb the infrastructure and supply of any base to 100% destroyed, when in reality that was very hard to do.
quote:


Because - while I have no idea what Joc has done - it makes sense to move the best bomber pilots to the B-29s as they arrive. And that might greatly skew what you see in-game. Especially if you did not have enough 'trained' bomber pilots to refill those other 4EB squadrons. In fact, in the middle of 1945 (I am not there yet) I imagine it's pretty easy to run low on trained pilots for 4EB. Remember that even though pilot experience is very high for new USA pilots at that point, the additional skills were not programmed until AE, and there are none reflected in the pilots database. The skill assignments come from some formula in the game code that is driven by the experience rating. A newly arriving USA pilot, even late game with "high" experience is not going to arrive with 70+ bombing skill. And any pilots transferred to the B-29 groups have a good chance of being well above that mark.

You'll have to ask him to know more about his pilots. When this one is done I'll be doing a lot of testing to understand better things I've observed in game. Not quite time for that now, but a list is developing.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 3:57:56 PM   
witpqs


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I don't mean to imply that the combat algorithms are the same for all targets types, I do assume they have differences. If it is pilots, maybe the industrial targets are harder to hit in the algorithms and so the mix of pilots he has makes a bigger difference than it does on other targets? Speculation.

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Post #: 3377
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 5:00:49 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I don't mean to imply that the combat algorithms are the same for all targets types, I do assume they have differences. If it is pilots, maybe the industrial targets are harder to hit in the algorithms and so the mix of pilots he has makes a bigger difference than it does on other targets? Speculation.


They could even be the same, exactly, and it's the difference in bomb load for each aircraft that is found through the dice rolls to 'hit' target. So that with aircraft with more bombs there are more hits than there would likely be if the same amount of aircraft with the same factors otherwise (pilots, weather, etc) dropped the same amount of bombs. I don't know, but I'd like to find out at some point.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 5:15:19 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I don't mean to imply that the combat algorithms are the same for all targets types, I do assume they have differences. If it is pilots, maybe the industrial targets are harder to hit in the algorithms and so the mix of pilots he has makes a bigger difference than it does on other targets? Speculation.


They could even be the same, exactly, and it's the difference in bomb load for each aircraft that is found through the dice rolls to 'hit' target. So that with aircraft with more bombs there are more hits than there would likely be if the same amount of aircraft with the same factors otherwise (pilots, weather, etc) dropped the same amount of bombs. I don't know, but I'd like to find out at some point.


I don't have a problem with this. One plane dropping a 4x larger bomb load has those bombs in a tighter pattern than four independent planes dropping the same total. It's the "stick" concept. Hit or miss, the larger stick does its job together. On misses you also have 4x the misses as the whole stick is a munitions unit. I believe Nemo did a lot of sand-box work on this long ago.

I have seen all the way back in 1942 strat bombing that a larger installation on the ground, in point terms, takes more percentage damage than a thin installation, with the same planes, pilots, and bomb load. Hitting 100 HI it's easier to get ten points of damage than hitting a 20 point HI. Again, that makes sense to me.

Was the B-29's radar bomb sight better than the Norden bomb sight, and is that in the EXE somewhere? No idea. But I have to think the radar was better else the B-29 would have had the Norden. No idea if that's in the game.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 5:24:24 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I don't mean to imply that the combat algorithms are the same for all targets types, I do assume they have differences. If it is pilots, maybe the industrial targets are harder to hit in the algorithms and so the mix of pilots he has makes a bigger difference than it does on other targets? Speculation.


They could even be the same, exactly, and it's the difference in bomb load for each aircraft that is found through the dice rolls to 'hit' target. So that with aircraft with more bombs there are more hits than there would likely be if the same amount of aircraft with the same factors otherwise (pilots, weather, etc) dropped the same amount of bombs. I don't know, but I'd like to find out at some point.


I don't have a problem with this. One plane dropping a 4x larger bomb load has those bombs in a tighter pattern than four independent planes dropping the same total. It's the "stick" concept. Hit or miss, the larger stick does its job together. On misses you also have 4x the misses as the whole stick is a munitions unit. I believe Nemo did a lot of sand-box work on this long ago.

I have seen all the way back in 1942 strat bombing that a larger installation on the ground, in point terms, takes more percentage damage than a thin installation, with the same planes, pilots, and bomb load. Hitting 100 HI it's easier to get ten points of damage than hitting a 20 point HI. Again, that makes sense to me.

Was the B-29's radar bomb sight better than the Norden bomb sight, and is that in the EXE somewhere? No idea. But I have to think the radar was better else the B-29 would have had the Norden. No idea if that's in the game.


No idea about the bombsight.

At night there was no precision bombing in the war except a few isolated, intensively planned specialist missions.

So at night we should be thinking in terms of simple odds to hit per bomb dropped, with all other conditions the same. If 4x the number of planes went over target using a bomb load 40% as large as the B-29B load of 20k, I would think the odds would show that the number of hits would be about the same. I'm no statistician, and maybe that's the problem, but it seems to me that those sticks might even be tighter together than the 40 bombs of the B-29B, thus when a plane drops on target, a higher percentage of those bombs would hit than from the larger, more spread out load, dropped from a faster plane as well.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 5:42:04 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

So at night we should be thinking in terms of simple odds to hit per bomb dropped, with all other conditions the same. If 4x the number of planes went over target using a bomb load 40% as large as the B-29B load of 20k, I would think the odds would show that the number of hits would be about the same. I'm no statistician, and maybe that's the problem, but it seems to me that those sticks might even be tighter together than the 40 bombs of the B-29B, thus when a plane drops on target, a higher percentage of those bombs would hit than from the larger, more spread out load, dropped from a faster plane as well.


I'm no statistician either, and my probability class is 35 years ago, but I think you're a bit off. It comes down to independent trials.

Keep the bombsight accuracy the same as well as pilot skill. Let those variables fall out. Take a total bomb load of 20,000. In one case it's in four B-17s; in the other it's in one B-29, dropping them in one stick. Both have a chance-to-hit of 33%. The B-29 will have more hits. It has to overcome the 33% in one trial. The B-17 total results will be the sum of four independent trials at 33% each time.

That was one of the two big design drivers of the B-29 program from what I've read. (Less than some of the B-29 experts in the forum to be sure.) The other driver was range. But if you're going to risk one crew and consume four engines and one airframe worth of maintenance overhead, you're going to get better results from a bigger bomb load dropped as one stick. It would have been much, much easier to design a B-29 with the B-17s bomb load but the B-29's range. Cheaper, faster. But they added the load spec because of ops research on early-war results from more bombers, in independent trials, dropping the same total load. (And at much more crew risk in total.) I THINK the bomb sight was sold as better as well, but I don't know, and I doubt that's in the game. (But might be.)

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/2/2014 6:43:05 PM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 5:56:09 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

So at night we should be thinking in terms of simple odds to hit per bomb dropped, with all other conditions the same. If 4x the number of planes went over target using a bomb load 40% as large as the B-29B load of 20k, I would think the odds would show that the number of hits would be about the same. I'm no statistician, and maybe that's the problem, but it seems to me that those sticks might even be tighter together than the 40 bombs of the B-29B, thus when a plane drops on target, a higher percentage of those bombs would hit than from the larger, more spread out load, dropped from a faster plane as well.


I'm no statistician either, and my probability class is 35 years ago, but I think you're a bit off. It comes down to independent trials.

Keep the bombsight accuracy the same as well as pilot skill. Let those variables fall out. Take a total bomb load of 20,000. In one case it's in four B-17s; in the other it's in one B-29, dropping them in one stick. Both have a chance-to-hit of 33%. The B-29 will have more hits. It has to overcome the 33% in one trial. The B-17 total results will be the sum of four independent trials at 33% each time.



All sounds good. I still don't understand. Pretty dense here. I thought the chance to hit was determined for each bomb even after the plane was over target. How else would a single hit be registered?

The same as how a DB can be on target once out of two or three bombs in it's run on a ship.

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Post #: 3382
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 6:07:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

So at night we should be thinking in terms of simple odds to hit per bomb dropped, with all other conditions the same. If 4x the number of planes went over target using a bomb load 40% as large as the B-29B load of 20k, I would think the odds would show that the number of hits would be about the same. I'm no statistician, and maybe that's the problem, but it seems to me that those sticks might even be tighter together than the 40 bombs of the B-29B, thus when a plane drops on target, a higher percentage of those bombs would hit than from the larger, more spread out load, dropped from a faster plane as well.


I'm no statistician either, and my probability class is 35 years ago, but I think you're a bit off. It comes down to independent trials.

Keep the bombsight accuracy the same as well as pilot skill. Let those variables fall out. Take a total bomb load of 20,000. In one case it's in four B-17s; in the other it's in one B-29, dropping them in one stick. Both have a chance-to-hit of 33%. The B-29 will have more hits. It has to overcome the 33% in one trial. The B-17 total results will be the sum of four independent trials at 33% each time.



All sounds good. I still don't understand. Pretty dense here. I thought the chance to hit was determined for each bomb even after the plane was over target. How else would a single hit be registered?

The same as how a DB can be on target once out of two or three bombs in it's run on a ship.


The question then comes down to per-bomb or per-plane. I don't know. But if it's per-bomb and accuracy is not considered across the war it's a pretty crude model. That means a 500-lber dropped from a Bolo has exactly the same effect as one dropped from a B-29. Or a P-40E. And I don't see that and from your comments neither do you. It would be possible to do a second pass through the to-hit loop, first with a to-hit for the plane/stick and then a per-bomb, with the per-bomb only reached if the code passed the first check. Same idea for DBs. But if accuracy is the same for all 4Es, and I'm not saying it is, then getting past the first gate is still a function of number of planes dropping to equal the same load in the two cases.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/2/2014 7:08:45 PM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 6:17:59 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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FWIW and noting I am no Editor maven, I took a peek. GP bombs from 100 lbs to 2000 lbs have an accuracy variable, and while somewhat linear by size they are not purely so. I have no idea how this number is cranked into the forumulae.

Bombers don't seem to have any accuracy ratings in the Editor I can see. That doesn't mean there aren't things done in the EXE though. Or, the game could consider all bomb sights equal and put the whole variability load on the pilot bombing-type skill number.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/2/2014 7:19:44 PM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 8:31:49 PM   
PaxMondo


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I don't know about ac models, but it pretty obvious that the 'heavy bomber' designation makes some differences. From my observations:

They tend to accept higher losses and bore in on attacks much more than a 'medium bomber'.
They tend to have higher hit rates.


The latter makes sense to me (better bombsights). The former, I'm on the fence about.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 9:43:21 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I don't know about ac models, but it pretty obvious that the 'heavy bomber' designation makes some differences. From my observations:

They tend to accept higher losses and bore in on attacks much more than a 'medium bomber'.
They tend to have higher hit rates.


The latter makes sense to me (better bombsights). The former, I'm on the fence about.


I agree they tend to "go" when 2Es won't. Maybe the durability rating? Or the gun defenses?

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/2/2014 10:43:48 PM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 9:58:07 PM   
PaxMondo


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Maybe, but even more. They will complete the mission even when they lose +10% of their force. Medium Bombers rarely do that, they generally "abort" before that (they never make it to target)

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/2/2014 10:18:44 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4609
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I don't know about ac models, but it pretty obvious that the 'heavy bomber' designation makes some differences. From my observations:

They tend to accept higher losses and bore in on attacks much more than a 'medium bomber'.
They tend to have higher hit rates.


The latter makes sense to me (better bombsights). The former, I'm on the fence about.


I agree they tend to "go" when 2Es won't. Maybe the durability rating? Or the gun defenses?


It is much simpler. Medium bombers do not fly if potential CAP outnumbers potential escorts by more than 50(IIRC)%.

For heavies that rule does not apply.

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/3/2014 7:54:33 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I don't know about ac models, but it pretty obvious that the 'heavy bomber' designation makes some differences. From my observations:

They tend to accept higher losses and bore in on attacks much more than a 'medium bomber'.
They tend to have higher hit rates.


The latter makes sense to me (better bombsights). The former, I'm on the fence about.


I agree they tend to "go" when 2Es won't. Maybe the durability rating? Or the gun defenses?


It is much simpler. Medium bombers do not fly if potential CAP outnumbers potential escorts by more than 50(IIRC)%.

For heavies that rule does not apply.


Ha! My 2E are happy to fly into huge CAP and get decimated. Happens regularly.

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/3/2014 8:55:02 AM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 3/3/2014 9:49:15 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7370
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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23 - 24 June 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: There still seem to be a lot of Allied subs around Moppo. We have 5 fully repaired. I'm trying to thikn of a good last ride for them, but no opportunities have surfaced yet.

KOREA: Holding fine at Gunzan and Masan. Sending Masan a bit of supply now. The arty units are filling up in the +3 hex between, then will move back into the combat zones. Bombing continues at Gunzan, and goes for the fields. I was surprised to find them fully open after the 24th turn. I guess 950 engineers are a lot, huh? The forts actually went up as well, to 2.25.

STRAT BOMBING: The Allies bomb Mukden at night and during the day. I literally this turn took out the NF to upgrade to Peggy NF, and there is no day CAP there. Not interested in fighting an air war over Manchuria/Korea where I can't fix or replenish airframes. Just holding the Allies until Soviet activation. If I can do that I'll be happy. Then a massed retreat to the HI with whatever I can save.

HOME ISLANDS: Every air groups that has been low a few planes or pilots is being sent through Tokyo to upgrade, replenish and fill out. I've got 2200 AS here and used 2k+ supply just last turn filling out airframes in groups. This is also the cost of losing 45k airframes over the course of the game. It costs, and anyone in 43-44 as Japan should try to realize the good times won't last forever fighting every battle all over the map. Pick spots. I wish I would have more often.

RECON: The Ki-95 made it's debut over Moppo. I foolishly spent a 30 sized R n D factory on this plane, and it's just getting here now, but it's good at least. i flew it in at 40k, and with it's speed and it's camera, it did well to spot the base and only one came back damaged out of 3 sent in. No losses.

CHINA: The little trapping maneuver accomplished goal number 1 near Anking. We shut the movement of the Allied tanks from getting closer to Shanghai or breaking into the plains in the center. Goal number 2, to actually trap them, has been foiled by a following unit that opened the hex side. That's fine. It would have been hard to reduce them with little supply anyway, and now if reinforcements come this would be a nice hex to defend with it's +3.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 23, 45 - MORNING
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Fusan , at 103,55

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-102a Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
Spitfire F.XIV x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-102a Randy: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Spitfire F.XIV sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Gunzan , at 102,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 9
Liberator GR.VI x 14
B-24J Liberator x 14
A-26B Invader x 27
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 81
B-25J11 Mitchell x 3
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 15
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 12

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 2 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
999 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 66 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 14 (2 destroyed, 12 disabled)


Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 16

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 23, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Masan (102,54)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 67636 troops, 1300 guns, 1128 vehicles, Assault Value = 2642

Defending force 93455 troops, 1306 guns, 208 vehicles, Assault Value = 3185

Japanese ground losses:
90 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Gunzan (102,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 98303 troops, 1967 guns, 1809 vehicles, Assault Value = 4816

Defending force 242197 troops, 2996 guns, 1321 vehicles, Assault Value = 7874

Japanese ground losses:
529 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 28 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 68,47 (near Kunming)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 35460 troops, 810 guns, 524 vehicles, Assault Value = 718

Defending force 13576 troops, 84 guns, 19 vehicles, Assault Value = 231

Allied adjusted assault: 390

Japanese adjusted defense: 193

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), morale(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
5060 casualties reported
Squads: 131 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 115 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 10 (10 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 5


Allied ground losses:
386 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 13 (1 destroyed, 12 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 24, 45 - NIGHT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Moppo at 100,54, Range 30,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-452
MTB G-453
MTB G-454
MTB G-455
MTB G-461

Allied Ships
DD Fletcher
DD Ammen
DD Anthony
DD Bell
DD Bennion
DD Bullard
DD Bush
DD Cogswell
DD Converse
DD Daly
DD Heywood Edwards
DD Erben

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 100% moonlight: 11,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mukden , at 104,42

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 45
B-29B Superfort x 24

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 4


Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 8000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 24, 45 - MORNING
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 4
Ki-84a Frank x 10

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 58

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 3
Ki-84a Frank x 7

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 24, 45 - AFTERNOON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on Fusan , at 103,55

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 11 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 7
Ki-84r Frank x 13

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Gunzan , at 102,52

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 8
A-26B Invader x 12
B-25J11 Mitchell x 7
P-38J Lightning x 18
P-38L Lightning x 38
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 9

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
326 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled


Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 32

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Gunzan , at 102,52

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 22
Liberator GR.VI x 11
B-24J Liberator x 9
A-26B Invader x 12
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 8

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 1 damaged
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
214 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 11
Runway hits 51

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Mukden , at 104,42

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 67

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Heavy Industry hits 58

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 24, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Masan (102,54)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 67631 troops, 1300 guns, 1128 vehicles, Assault Value = 2640

Defending force 113302 troops, 1513 guns, 300 vehicles, Assault Value = 3858

Japanese ground losses:
68 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
3 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Gunzan (102,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 78144 troops, 1543 guns, 1435 vehicles, Assault Value = 4867

Defending force 222716 troops, 2714 guns, 1021 vehicles, Assault Value = 7699

Japanese ground losses:
637 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 13 (4 destroyed, 9 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
214 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wuchang (84,51)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12306 troops, 176 guns, 130 vehicles, Assault Value = 509

Defending force 6731 troops, 70 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 216

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 434

Japanese adjusted defense: 173

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 4

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
142 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled

Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
6th Australian Division

Defending units:
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
90th JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements: Still getting new training units! I am disbanding as many IJA LB truing groups as possible. Letting them get the pilots to 60 low naval and then done. I'll keep the fighter units, as even training they can fly CAP, but I'll change most to Oscars, Tonys, or Tojos.

195th Shinbu-tai arrives at Matsuyama
197th Shinbu-tai arrives at Matsuyama


Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

TK Coulie is reported to have been sunk near Tinian on Nov 22, 1944
Previous report of sinking of CA Dorsetshire incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
Previous report of sinking of SS Thrasher incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service
DD Grenville is reported to have been sunk near Amami Oshima on May 16, 1945
Previous report of sinking of SS Queenfish incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So Moppo is fully functional as both a CAP and strike base now. That is worrying. I sensed a lot of TFs guarding now from night search reports, but daytime recon and search gets so disrupted by CAP I can't see the actual numbers or composition of the defenses. I sent in PTs this turn to check it out and found a typical 10 ship Fletcher TF. Could be more though, and the Allied CVs moved back North into dangerous zones. I shifted the BBs back to 1 hex from Hiroshima's 800 fighters, so hopefully that keeps them safe. No guarantees though if he goes for it.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/3/2014 10:49:58 AM >


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