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Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 7:48:55 PM   
redmarkus4


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Bought it because I'm travelling, bored and waiting for a WiTE turn from Carnage ;)

Hate the 3D unit icons so I did a quick 45 minute mod (partial) to put some basic 2D units in place.

It's easy to do and the game should have shipped with better versions of these.




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< Message edited by redmarkus4 -- 11/15/2011 7:54:44 PM >


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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 8:12:36 PM   
AZ Gung Ho


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Looks like a good start, I too don't like the icons. Actually the armored ones look okay, but I wish they had made the infantry full figures, not those weird little busts running around Russia - creepy!

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 8:13:38 PM   
redmarkus4


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And on a bigger map. Can't see how to remove the annoying SP dots from on top of the units. Anyone?




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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 8:15:31 PM   
redmarkus4


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Yeah - I will just play with mine for now until someone does a proper mod. I don't have the graphics skills but just wanted to show how easy it would be to do.

Devs - this would surely help your sales if you could provide a 2D units option.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AZ Gung Ho

Looks like a good start, I too don't like the icons. Actually the armored ones look okay, but I wish they had made the infantry full figures, not those weird little busts running around Russia - creepy!



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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 9:19:15 PM   
Blubel

 

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Thanks. It is good to know that the icons can be modded. I will however wait for someone to do a Nato or German symbols mod before buying the game...

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 10:28:35 PM   
Wolfe


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As a Nato icon enthusiast (i.e. crusty old school board wargamer) that this can be produced as a potential mod within hours of release is highly encouraging, thanks for your impressively rapid creativity.

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 10:37:08 PM   
ComradeP

 

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It's a nice mod for the people that absolutely need to have boardgame like counters and who can't stand actual graphical representations of their units. As I am still young and grew up with computer wargames, I don't feel the same kind of nostalgia of "must...have...NATO...counters" that many of you do, but I can understand why some of you prefer it.

As to the "weird little busts": I see those every time I play chess, so they don't really bother me. What matters is that you can immediately spot which side a piece belongs to and what it does, and even with the "weird little busts" I doubt anyone has any real problems with that.

The only confusing piece in my opinion could be the Romanians due to the brown uniforms.

I don't think the game "should" have shipped with traditional boardgame counters for the very simple reason that it isn't a traditional boardgame.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 11/15/2011 10:39:02 PM >


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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 10:51:20 PM   
Wolfe


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ComradeP you may well be right and I might when I buy the game (which I'm rather close to doing) rather get to like the "weird little busts" in the same way I rather like the unit/leader "portrait" graphics in RUS. At least I don't have to trim 1,000+ counters when buying a computer game


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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/15/2011 11:44:30 PM   
AZ Gung Ho


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Hey Comrade P,

Point taken, it's not a board game, but I guess our chess pieces are different, mine are abstract, no little busts running around on my chess board. Oh well, to each his own and hopefully some good mods will be available soon. Now to the real issues - like should I buy this game!!

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/16/2011 12:10:04 AM   
ComradeP

 

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I'll certainly do my best to develop scenarios as soon as the scenario editor is functional.

With regards to chess, I'm mostly referring to the knight, which is usually a horsehead without a body and without any trace of an actual knight, but you still know what it is and does just by looking at it.

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/16/2011 7:42:53 AM   
redmarkus4


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I'm not saying that 2D is 'better' than 3D :)

The only reason I said the game 'should have shipped with 2D counters' is just that many gamers prefer that option and sales would go much better IMO if it is included.

Many have posted on the forum that they will not buy until counters are added or modded, so I wanted to demo that it's easy to do. I estimate that if I worked in the dev team I could complete a full set of 2D alternative counters (WiTE style) within 2-3 days.



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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/16/2011 2:11:17 PM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
I don't feel the same kind of nostalgia of "must...have...NATO...counters" that many of you do,


It's not a nostalgia thing, it's a matter of UI clarity. For those of us who grew up with Nato counters we take one look at a map and immediatly get a good picture of which kind of troops are where, where there are concentrations of tanks etc. It's a symbol language we learned to read a long time ago and it was pretty universal so we could apply this skill to a lot of games.

*Not* using Nato symbols means that we need to get accustomed to whatever symbolic representations a particular developer deemed fun to use, which of course can be done, but the point is that we shouldn't need to go through this learning phaze. If it's so easy to put Nato counters in there, they should have been in there as an option from the start, as it cuts down on the learning curve for guys like me.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/16/2011 2:22:37 PM   
ComradeP

 

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There are only a handful of unit types, it's not like you have to memorize dozens.

In my opinion, NATO symbols are primarily useful when there are so many unit types around that you need a system of symbols that everybody understands in order to make sense of it all. For a game the size of WitE, it's something of a must, but for this game? Not really.

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/16/2011 2:55:13 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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I have to agree with Pieter, but the game is very easily moddable for those that prefer the counter look. Don't hesitate because of the lack of counters. If a good mod does not appear, I'll do one myself just to encourage you guys to give the game a try.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/16/2011 7:28:19 PM   
SeaMonkey

 

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If someone does do the Nato counters can we please have them with just the Nato symbol floating on the map hex, the background counter intrudes on the map topography. The attachments, steps, names, actions, etc. can still be somewhere near the symbol contained in the occupying hex, but let's not hide the terrain that resides in the hex.

In this configuration the map play will resemble the map deployments in our reference books.

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/16/2011 9:43:31 PM   
Treale


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The "Funny" looking unit counters turned me off. I guess that I'm just an old fuddy duddy!!

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/17/2011 7:53:03 AM   
redmarkus4


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OK, I'm going to try and do a NATO units mod with smaller counters than the hasty test ones posted here. If anybody has screens shots of counters they like, please post them here to give me inspiration.

I will also look at the map files to see whether a place names mod is possible - many of the towns are just little unnamed houses on the map...

< Message edited by redmarkus4 -- 11/17/2011 7:54:48 AM >


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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/17/2011 8:14:14 AM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
OK, I'm going to try and do a NATO units mod with smaller counters than the hasty test ones posted here.


3 cheers for RedMarkus4 !

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/17/2011 8:35:43 AM   
nenad


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We won't be adding the counter option anytime soon. However, I'd love to see a well executed nato mod. As already demonstrated - this is fairly easy to do technically. It doesn't involve a lot of physical work because the total number of different unit icons is relatively small.

As for learning; when starting off with a new game, you always have to learn something you didn't know previously. Otherwise you'd want to play only the games you already know :)
In UoC, learning the unit icons is a tiny tiny fraction of total stuff you need to learn to play successfully, predominantly - the rules.

Unit icon designs employ a rather simple associative scheme. "Learning" it is a matter of seconds really:

tank = armored division
small tank = inferior armored division (i.e. romanian or hungarian)
halftrack (sdkfz) = pzgrenadier division
head = infantry division (different uniform = different nationality)
head + truck = motorized division
head + horse = cavalry

That's all there is.

We feel that this is adequate for everybody - people who know how to read nato symbols as well as the ones who don't.



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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/17/2011 4:38:04 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nenad

We won't be adding the counter option anytime soon. However, I'd love to see a well executed nato mod. As already demonstrated - this is fairly easy to do technically. It doesn't involve a lot of physical work because the total number of different unit icons is relatively small.

As for learning; when starting off with a new game, you always have to learn something you didn't know previously. Otherwise you'd want to play only the games you already know :)
In UoC, learning the unit icons is a tiny tiny fraction of total stuff you need to learn to play successfully, predominantly - the rules.

Unit icon designs employ a rather simple associative scheme. "Learning" it is a matter of seconds really:

tank = armored division
small tank = inferior armored division (i.e. romanian or hungarian)
halftrack (sdkfz) = pzgrenadier division
head = infantry division (different uniform = different nationality)
head + truck = motorized division
head + horse = cavalry

That's all there is.

We feel that this is adequate for everybody - people who know how to read nato symbols as well as the ones who don't.



:) thanks. It's not learning the 3D counters that's problematic though - many of us just don't like them. Let's see what becomes of my mod attempt.

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/17/2011 4:40:17 PM   
redmarkus4


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I went through the map files but can't see an easy way to mod them, which is a pity.

Maybe the devs can add town names for the unnamed towns on the map? Should be easy for them to do based on the structure I see.

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/17/2011 6:06:41 PM   
nenad


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No, it's easy to add a custom label. Put your png into labels directory following the existing naming convention. Add the appropriate xml manifest file. Then, in the parent directory in the "freeobj.xml" file add a reference to your new label. Should work fine.



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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/17/2011 6:33:06 PM   
Mario Vallée


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I find the 3D icons look very nice. I also like the SSG's more nato style counters .

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/17/2011 7:13:01 PM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nenad

No, it's easy to add a custom label. Put your png into labels directory following the existing naming convention. Add the appropriate xml manifest file. Then, in the parent directory in the "freeobj.xml" file add a reference to your new label. Should work fine.




OK thanks, I will look at that, but it would be better if you guys could add names to all locations ;)

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/18/2011 11:29:05 AM   
redmarkus4


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Still messing around with the profile icons - no NATO as yet.

I made the counters smaller. So far I have stuck to one color for all Axis units as the different colors for Italy etc. made the map confusing. The icon size is too small to support a flag for each nation.

Comments?




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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/18/2011 1:09:14 PM   
Barthheart


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Not too bad.

The white profiles, however, hide the movement arrow and the attack lightening bolt. Maybe use black instead.

Soviet infantry profile kinda looks lie aliens... the Axis profiles are good.

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/20/2011 4:27:30 AM   
CarnageINC


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LOL, there you go again Red, always gotta tinker with stuff   I like the first set's armor and the second set's infantry.  Keep at it, you'll come up with a winner I'm sure .

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/23/2011 3:11:25 AM   
rosseau

 

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Hey Guys. How exactly do you open and edit those .usc and usx files? The open xml's in the data folder are much appreciated 

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/23/2011 12:55:03 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

We won't be adding the counter option anytime soon. However, I'd love to see a well executed nato mod. As already demonstrated - this is fairly easy to do technically. It doesn't involve a lot of physical work because the total number of different unit icons is relatively small.


While I agree that this is technically pretty easy to do, I tried making a few counter mods yesterday and found the total number of .png icons is not exactly small, nor is it intuitive how to get counters centered just right for best display. Also there's like 60 different rotational images for each unit icon that all need to be modded and I couldn't seem to get this to work well.

As a modest request, could we maybe get a blank template for a properly centered square unit counter for the different image directories? There's a difference between what's shown on the map and what's shown on the Info Sheets. We don't need all the different units, just a few templates to edit. That would be helpful. Thanks.

Perhaps redmarkus4 has already figured this out and could post something for download. The counter size in post #25 above looks good.

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RE: Hasty Mod - test - 11/23/2011 9:32:41 PM   
nenad


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As already has been said elsewhere, at present we simply cannot actively support modding in any way.

Changing counters is really simple though. Each on-map unit icon is composed of two overlying pngs of the same pixel-size: main graphic in data/unit_rot and underlying ellipse in data/unit_icons.

For nato style counters you would probably want to ignore ellipses. Just replace them with blank images.

The main unit graphics is indeed a rotation animation consisting of 60 individual png frames. But for nato symbols you obviously wouldn't wand to have any rotation. So all that is needed is to mod only the first (default) image in the sequence (*_00.png). When you're satisfied with how it looks just copy it to other 59, using one of the free file management utilities that support regular expressions. Once you've established the frame for one unit type you can use it as a template for all the others.

If you have problems aligning to hex grid, screenshot the map with grid enabled and use that as a guideline.

Each unit has three more additional images, all of them in data/unit_icons. Two of them (left and right oriented) are for the info/combat sheet and third (BW) is for reinforcements bar.

That's all there really is to it.

Hope this helps at least a bit.


< Message edited by nenad -- 11/23/2011 9:34:20 PM >


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