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Pilot Management ......again

 
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Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 2:46:56 PM   
Richard III


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I did read the Pilot Management manual addendum v1094b and searched the threads here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2566661&mpage=1&key=pilots?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2369120&mpage=1&key=pilots�

I`m running the official Matrix patch, dababes LiteA and the 1108q9 Beta.

But... after trying about an hour of clicking, not sure I can do what I want and that is withdraw some of the high experience Fighter Pilots in the _ PI restricted Sqs._ before the PI falls.

I can get them into the "Group", which I assume is their Parent Fighter Group pool, but not into the "Reserve", which I assume is the national reserve, that I can then reassign them from ?? Is there some delay involved or is it restricted Sqs that is the problem.

So, any way to do this by specific Pilot ?

If not, what happens to the Pilots if I disband the entire Sq ?

TIA

< Message edited by Richard III -- 11/14/2011 2:50:32 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 2:58:39 PM   
Erkki


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Clicking on the pilot, you assign him to Group reserve.

Clicking him again, depending on mouse button, you can re-activate him or send him to reserve pool. If the air unit is due to withdraw at some point, you can only remove pilots to reserve pool if there are more pilots than unit's paper strength(tip: pull replacement pilot greentags in, send the veterans out).

And yes theres a chance to have a delay. Most pilots will appear in the reserve in max 2-7 days. There will also be a delay from reserve to new units when you decide to use them again.

If you get bored of clicking every pilot 2 times, get the latest beta, which allows you to kick 10 pilots directly to reserve pool with a single click.

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Post #: 2
RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 4:25:52 PM   
cavalry

 

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What is the advantage of a pilot being in group reserve please?

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 4:47:42 PM   
Mike Solli


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If you lose a pilot, a group reserve pilot is available to take his place. Basically, they're spare pilots for the unit.

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 4:49:43 PM   
jeffk3510


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You also have to have enough pilots in the group to actually send some to the reserve...

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 5:02:54 PM   
cavalry

 

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But why not just leave him flying and gaining more exp?

You can already have 30% more pilots than planes?

Cav

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 5:07:03 PM   
Erkki


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Because 30% extra might not be enough... Takes time for pilots to move from reserve to group, so having 30% extra + more in group reserve helps when there are lots of losses. Of course plane reinforcements are also 12 a week but you can make sure pilots are not the bottleneck, especially if the unit is small... Also helps with fatigue as pilots can be better rotated.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 11/14/2011 5:08:22 PM >

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 7:42:32 PM   
cavalry

 

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ok noted - and thanks

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 10:04:53 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Also helps with fatigue as pilots can be better rotated.

This is my major use ....

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 10:54:49 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Because 30% extra might not be enough... Takes time for pilots to move from reserve to group, so having 30% extra + more in group reserve helps when there are lots of losses. Of course plane reinforcements are also 12 a week but you can make sure pilots are not the bottleneck, especially if the unit is small... Also helps with fatigue as pilots can be better rotated.


Anyone who engages in this totally unnecesary practice will subsequently have no right to claim the game is borked or the devs were short sighted when they come up against the pilot limit. At that point any unplayability of their PBEM will be entirely their fault. You have been warned.

Alfred

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Post #: 10
RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/14/2011 11:27:31 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Because 30% extra might not be enough... Takes time for pilots to move from reserve to group, so having 30% extra + more in group reserve helps when there are lots of losses. Of course plane reinforcements are also 12 a week but you can make sure pilots are not the bottleneck, especially if the unit is small... Also helps with fatigue as pilots can be better rotated.


Anyone who engages in this totally unnecesary practice will subsequently have no right to claim the game is borked or the devs were short sighted when they come up against the pilot limit. At that point any unplayability of their PBEM will be entirely their fault. You have been warned.

Alfred

Understood and admonition accepted.

Not sure I see the link though between this and the pilot limit. Pilots are graduating (and obtaining individual identity) at a preset and fixed pace into the pool as defined by the scenario setup. Whether you use them or not in a group I don't think matters.

If the action isn't "hot" enough, particularly in Scen 2 where the IJ pilot classes are bumped up, AND you do not "purge" your KIA's, I think the numbers showed you could hit the limits pretty easily in '45. I think Michael's adjustment in the beta has moved the threshold up enough to alleviate this issue.

I might be wrong...

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/15/2011 12:18:13 AM   
Alfred

 

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Unless I am very much mistaken, the pilot array now allows for up to 70k named pilots in total from both sides. Pilots which graduate from the 12 month training pipeline and go to the replacement pool are not named. They are named when they are sent to a squadron and then retain their name when sent back to one of the veteran pools.

The previous global limit of 50k should have sufficed and yet already some players had come up against the limit. My reading of both michaelm and jwilkerson is that there will be no further increase in the global pilot array beyond 70k. That effectively means each side should aim for no higher than 35k named pilots. Keeping pilots in squadrons to only 133% of the TOE should easily fall within the new limit. If a player starts to have 200% or more of pilots, plus retain substantial pools, the new limit (of 35k each) will soon be reached.

As always, there are costs associated with any approach. Not a problem if players are aware of them and take the appropriate steps to mitigate those costs. Too often players only think of the benefits derived from adopting a particular course of action and then complain when the "chickens come home to roost".

Alfred

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Post #: 12
RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/15/2011 8:37:32 AM   
Erkki


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Original posts:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Because 30% extra might not be enough... Takes time for pilots to move from reserve to group, so having 30% extra + more in group reserve helps when there are lots of losses. Of course plane reinforcements are also 12 a week but you can make sure pilots are not the bottleneck, especially if the unit is small... Also helps with fatigue as pilots can be better rotated.


Anyone who engages in this totally unnecesary practice will subsequently have no right to claim the game is borked or the devs were short sighted when they come up against the pilot limit. At that point any unplayability of their PBEM will be entirely their fault. You have been warned.

Alfred



My comments are italicized:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Because 30% extra might not be(not always does not say anything about how often) enough... Takes time for pilots to move from reserve to group, so having 30% extra + more in group reserve helps when there are lots of losses(KAMIKAZE). Of course plane reinforcements are also 12 a week but you can make sure pilots are not the bottleneck, especially if the unit is small... Also helps with fatigue as pilots can be better rotated.(for example allows 100% CAP when the base is known or likely 4E target - if those planes are not in air they get blasted, if they are in air they get blasted out anyway but have some chance of hitting back, but you want low-fatigue pilots, and hence need those pilots in squad reserve)


Just to elaborate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Anyone who engages in this totally unnecesary practice will subsequently have no right to claim the game is borked or the devs were short sighted when they come up against the pilot limit.(thats why we play a beta, righto?) At that point any unplayability of their PBEM will be entirely their fault. You have been warned.

Alfred


And you have been green buttoned.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 11/15/2011 8:38:49 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/18/2011 10:15:38 PM   
Richard III


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That worked ( in most cases without a delay, thanks ! the Beta method even better )

Rather then start yet another thread on Air Units, I`ll ask this here:

I did read Air Unit Restriction 7.1.1 in the manual but...as an example of my confusion on early war restricted air units/commands.

#4040 54th. PG/42nd. PS IV US Fighter Command (S) (R) in white. Do I need to reach a PP point total to get to change to a line unit and use this SQ ? or is it a permanent east coast training unit ?

What does the (S) mean ? It also says, in purple no less...." Remove 31 Jan 1942 * P ( in red ) " Returns May 1942 as the 42nd. PG/42nd. PS. What the heck is that about.it`s the same unit ??

TRACOM, I can`t draw any pilots from that, when selected for pilot replacements, it always says " No Pilot Slots Available "

Overall I still think I`m less the optimum on Pilot Management....


As usual, all help appreciated





quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Clicking on the pilot, you assign him to Group reserve.

Clicking him again, depending on mouse button, you can re-activate him or send him to reserve pool. If the air unit is due to withdraw at some point, you can only remove pilots to reserve pool if there are more pilots than unit's paper strength(tip: pull replacement pilot greentags in, send the veterans out).

And yes theres a chance to have a delay. Most pilots will appear in the reserve in max 2-7 days. There will also be a delay from reserve to new units when you decide to use them again.

If you get bored of clicking every pilot 2 times, get the latest beta, which allows you to kick 10 pilots directly to reserve pool with a single click.


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Post #: 14
RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/19/2011 4:28:16 PM   
Mike Hall

 

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it pays to save your aces and best pilots for later use when they can fly more durable aircraft. Very sad to see an ace get blown up by flak flyng a sweep or escort mission.

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/19/2011 11:38:02 PM   
jeffk3510


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Richard, unless you have put pilots in TRACOM, you will not have any to pull out. Pilot mgt training is easy. Keep it simple stupid

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/22/2011 12:43:44 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


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Don't Green button Alfred, Ekki, He's a human cyborg with comprehensive AE knowledge

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/22/2011 10:59:39 PM   
Steve Sv

 

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To summarize my very limited understanding of pilot training and the approach I am planning to use as Japan ...

1) Transfer several experience pilots to Tracom early in the war. These pilots will enhance the skills of pilots graduating from the 12-month training program. An additional benefit to this transfer may be that the experienced pilots will be available to transfer back to the combat units later in the war when Japan is in desperate need of high-qulity pilots.

2) When the first class of pilot graduates arrive, I will assign them to training groups based in Japan. These groups will fly training missions until the pilots have reached a level of experience I deem sufficient at which time I will transfer them to the reserve pool to eventually be assigned to combat units. New graduates from the basic-training program will then be assigned to the training groups.

Questions abound:

Is the outlined approach reasonable? Are there step(s) that should be added? Will it help the graduate pilots in the advanced training program to learn more quickly if I include experienced pilots in the training group? What kind of air groups should I use as training groups? For instance, if I wish to train bomber pilots can I do so with obsolete planes and will these pilots still be qualified to fly the more advanced bombers they will fly once they are transferred to combat units? I am considering transferring 10 army and 10 navy pilots to Tracom. Is this a reasonable number?

The manual indicates that some air groups are defined (as the manual puts it) as training groups that can only be used for training - no combat missions possible for these groups. I have the impression that this information is obsolete and that there are no such groups in the game and it is not possible to create them. Is this impression correct?

I am not sure at all how carrier training works. I am guessing that I can use one or both of the carriers that start the game in Japan for training carrier pilots. I have noticed that all or almost all of the carrier-capable aircraft that start the game at a land base are not designated as carrier trained. If I transfer one or more of these groups to a "designated training carrier" and assign the group to training missions will the group eventually be upgraded from carrier capable to carrier trained? If not will at least the pilots become carrier trained? Is there a way to tell which pilots in the reserve pools are carrier trained? If using one of Japanese carriers to train carrier pilots is the way to go should I take it out to sail around a bit as the pilots are trained or is it sufficient to have the training done in Tokyo Harbor, for instance.

Thank you very much for any and all answers that more experienced players can provide

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/23/2011 12:48:35 AM   
Mynok


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I do that exact method. Frankly, I don't bother with the nitty gritty details. Elite pilots go to TRACOM until they are needed (for whatever reason) and I train up all graduates in training groups until they are at 70 in their primary skill. THen they go to reserve for posting to a combat group.

K. I. S. S.  all the way.


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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/23/2011 7:41:53 PM   
Steve Sv

 

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OK thanks Mynok.

If this simple approach does not work very well, at least I will know that I am not the only player suffering. I hope I can get someone to comment on training carrier pilots. I haven't managed to dig up anything on that topic.

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RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/23/2011 10:21:54 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Sv

To summarize my very limited understanding of pilot training and the approach I am planning to use as Japan ...

1) Transfer several experience pilots to Tracom early in the war. These pilots will enhance the skills of pilots graduating from the 12-month training program. An additional benefit to this transfer may be that the experienced pilots will be available to transfer back to the combat units later in the war when Japan is in desperate need of high-qulity pilots.

2) When the first class of pilot graduates arrive, I will assign them to training groups based in Japan. These groups will fly training missions until the pilots have reached a level of experience I deem sufficient at which time I will transfer them to the reserve pool to eventually be assigned to combat units. New graduates from the basic-training program will then be assigned to the training groups.

Questions abound:

Is the outlined approach reasonable? Are there step(s) that should be added? Will it help the graduate pilots in the advanced training program to learn more quickly if I include experienced pilots in the training group? What kind of air groups should I use as training groups? For instance, if I wish to train bomber pilots can I do so with obsolete planes and will these pilots still be qualified to fly the more advanced bombers they will fly once they are transferred to combat units? I am considering transferring 10 army and 10 navy pilots to Tracom. Is this a reasonable number?

The manual indicates that some air groups are defined (as the manual puts it) as training groups that can only be used for training - no combat missions possible for these groups. I have the impression that this information is obsolete and that there are no such groups in the game and it is not possible to create them. Is this impression correct?

I am not sure at all how carrier training works. I am guessing that I can use one or both of the carriers that start the game in Japan for training carrier pilots. I have noticed that all or almost all of the carrier-capable aircraft that start the game at a land base are not designated as carrier trained. If I transfer one or more of these groups to a "designated training carrier" and assign the group to training missions will the group eventually be upgraded from carrier capable to carrier trained? If not will at least the pilots become carrier trained? Is there a way to tell which pilots in the reserve pools are carrier trained? If using one of Japanese carriers to train carrier pilots is the way to go should I take it out to sail around a bit as the pilots are trained or is it sufficient to have the training done in Tokyo Harbor, for instance.

Thank you very much for any and all answers that more experienced players can provide


Hmn, seems like a bit of muddled thinking underlines the questions.

1. The dedicated training groups mentioned in the manual were removed in an early patch.

2. Unlike real life AE pilots are not trained to fly particular types/models of aircraft. They are trained in various skills, many of which can be used by quite different types of aircraft.

3. Pilots transferring to a different model do not need retraining, they transfer with the skills and experience they had with the previous aircraft model provided they remain within the same type of aircraft. Basically there are four types of aircraft:


  • fighter
  • bomber
  • patrol
  • transport


Thus transferring a pilot from a Zero equipped group to a George equipped group entails no decrease in experience. Transferring from a Zero to a Mavis does result in a skill reduction.

4. There is no such thing as a carrier trained pilot. In AE only a few nationalities get to fly off and land on carriers. Any pilot from these nationalities, irrespective of what type of aircraft they trained on or what skills they possess, can be sent to a carrier trained unit staffed by pilots of that nationality.

5. Groups convert from carrier capable to carrier trained after spending sufficient time on board a carrier. Carriers need to be at sea, not docked. At sea can be 39 nm from a port.

6. Individual pilots within an airgroup do not impact on speed of learning. Unit leaders alone have some impact upon the operations of the unit. In the case of pilot training there is much to be said for Mynok's KISS and therefore to not be too concerned about worrying about who is the leader.

7. TRACOM does not enhance the quality of graduating students. It does two things:


  • can accelerate some pilots getting through the training pipeline, but any such accelerated graduates are not replacred by additional inductees
  • helps to limit pilots graduating below their national average, but it will not assist in pilots graduating above their national average


The optimal number of pilots to send to TRACOM will not be revealed by the devs but it has been hinted that multiples of 10 per nationality is a good idea. Hence don't bother having less than 10 in TRACOM unless you are merely using TRACOM as a depository for highly trained pilots for later use when better airframs become available.

Alfred

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Post #: 21
RE: Pilot Management ......again - 11/23/2011 11:16:30 PM   
Steve Sv

 

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Thank you very much for these remarks, Alfred. I was pretty sure my thinking was muddled, but I have a little confidence that it is less so now.

Steve

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 22
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