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How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day (twice)

 
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How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day (twice) - 11/13/2011 1:00:47 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4769
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
So much for experience ...

Took over a game a few days ago to see if I could stop NYGiants and his march up the New Hebrides... got my ass whipped and then handed to me.

The turn before I was 9 hexes away (and didn't get any long strikes from Kates(but I think 8 is the max anyway)) ... then he steams to one hex Sth of my position and crikey!

Have basically replaced all Val's with an extra daitai of zero's and had 40% cap at 9K (which was probably wrong according to Nemo121 - I should keep 60%). {edit} In my defence -I believe Michael had not seen my CVTF's (but probably guessed) and I was going for a long distance strike. Should have had different levels. No radar. But the overriding factor IMO was the distance of 1 hex engagement.

Have a look at the inability of both sides (but more so the IJN) CAP and escorts to be effective.




First ... (OK looking good)
quote:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Vanikoro at 126,145, Range 16,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko
CA Haguro, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Nachi
CA Mogami, Shell hits 1
CA Mikuma
CA Kumano, Shell hits 2
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Kako, Shell hits 1
CL Isuzu
CL Natori
CL Yura, Shell hits 1
CL Tama, Shell hits 2
DD Isonami, Shell hits 1
DD Asagiri, Shell hits 2
DD Amagiri, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Louisville, Shell hits 21, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 3, on fire
CLAA San Juan, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 23, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hughes, Shell hits 1
DD Anderson, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Mustin
DD Craven
DD Maury, Shell hits 1
DD Reid
DD Balch



Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 20,000 yards
Range closes to 21,000 yards...
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 16,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 16,000 yards
CA Kumano engages CV Enterprise at 16,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages CV Enterprise at 16,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Furutaka at 16,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages CL Phoenix at 16,000 yards
CA Mogami engages CA Louisville at 16,000 yards
CA Kumano engages DD Balch at 16,000 yards
CA Haguro engages CL Phoenix at 16,000 yards
CA Kumano engages DD Maury at 16,000 yards
CL Tama engages CA Louisville at 16,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CL Yura at 16,000 yards
CA Kumano engages DD Anderson at 16,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Maury at 16,000 yards
DD Anderson engages DD Asagiri at 16,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Balch at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages CV Enterprise at 11,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages CL Phoenix at 11,000 yards
CA Kumano engages CL Phoenix at 11,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Mikuma at 11,000 yards
CA Nachi engages CL Phoenix at 11,000 yards
DD Reid engages DD Amagiri at 11,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Myoko at 11,000 yards
CL Tama engages CL Phoenix at 11,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Mustin at 11,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Anderson at 11,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Hughes at 11,000 yards
DD Hughes engages DD Amagiri at 11,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Mustin at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
CA Kako engages CL Phoenix at 8,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Furutaka at 8,000 yards
CA Kumano engages CL Phoenix at 8,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages CL Phoenix at 8,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Mogami at 8,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Balch at 8,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Haguro at 8,000 yards
DD Maury engages DD Isonami at 8,000 yards
CL Tama engages CL Phoenix at 8,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CL Yura at 8,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Anderson at 8,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Hughes at 8,000 yards
DD Reid engages DD Amagiri at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
CA Kako engages CA Louisville at 6,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages CL Phoenix at 6,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Furutaka at 6,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Mikuma at 6,000 yards
CA Mogami engages CA Louisville at 6,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Nachi at 6,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Haguro at 6,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Myoko at 6,000 yards
CL Tama engages CA Louisville at 6,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CL Yura at 6,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Anderson at 6,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Hughes at 6,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Balch at 6,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Reid at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
CA Kumano engages CV Enterprise at 8,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Furutaka at 8,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CL Tama at 8,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages CA Louisville at 8,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages CLAA San Juan at 8,000 yards
DD Balch engages DD Amagiri at 8,000 yards
CLAA San Juan engages CA Haguro at 8,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Myoko at 8,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Craven at 8,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Mustin at 8,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Anderson at 8,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Hughes at 8,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Hughes at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CA Kako engages CV Enterprise at 11,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CA Furutaka at 11,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Furutaka at 11,000 yards
CA Kumano engages CL Phoenix at 11,000 yards
CA Nachi engages CLAA San Juan at 11,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Balch at 11,000 yards
CA Haguro engages CA San Francisco at 11,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Myoko at 11,000 yards
CL Tama engages CA Louisville at 11,000 yards
CL Yura engages CA San Francisco at 11,000 yards
CL Isuzu engages DD Hughes at 11,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Hughes at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Isonami engages CV Enterprise at 9,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages CA San Francisco at 9,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Mogami at 9,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Mogami at 9,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Nachi at 9,000 yards
CA Haguro engages CLAA San Juan at 9,000 yards
DD Maury engages DD Isonami at 9,000 yards
CL Tama engages CLAA San Juan at 9,000 yards
CL Yura engages CLAA San Juan at 9,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Anderson at 9,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Craven at 9,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Hughes at 9,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Balch at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CA Kako at 13,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CA Kumano at 13,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages CA Louisville at 13,000 yards
CLAA San Juan engages CA Furutaka at 13,000 yards
DD Asagiri engages DD Balch at 13,000 yards
DD Reid engages DD Asagiri at 13,000 yards
DD Maury engages DD Isonami at 13,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CL Tama at 13,000 yards
CLAA San Juan engages CL Yura at 13,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CL Natori at 13,000 yards
CL Isuzu engages DD Hughes at 13,000 yards
DD Anderson engages DD Isonami at 13,000 yards
Range increases to 17,000 yards
DD Isonami engages CV Enterprise at 17,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Furutaka at 17,000 yards
CLAA San Juan engages CA Kumano at 17,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CA Mikuma at 17,000 yards
CA Kumano engages CLAA San Juan at 17,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Nachi at 17,000 yards
CA Myoko engages DD Maury at 17,000 yards
CA Louisville engages CL Tama at 17,000 yards
DD Anderson engages DD Asagiri at 17,000 yards
DD Hughes engages DD Amagiri at 17,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Mustin at 17,000 yards
Range increases to 22,000 yards
CV Enterprise screened from combat
- escorted by DD Balch , DD Reid , DD Maury ,
DD Craven , DD Mustin , DD Anderson ,
DD Hughes
CA Kako engages CV Enterprise at 22,000 yards
CLAA San Juan engages CA Nachi at 22,000 yards
CA Haguro engages CV Enterprise at 22,000 yards
Range increases to 27,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages CLAA San Juan at 27,000 yards
CA Kumano engages CLAA San Juan at 27,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages CL Phoenix at 27,000 yards
CA Kumano engages CLAA San Juan at 27,000 yards
CA Nachi engages DD Balch at 27,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CA Haguro at 27,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Maury at 27,000 yards
CA Furutaka engages DD Mustin at 27,000 yards
CA Louisville engages DD Amagiri at 27,000 yards
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Then a lackluster attack ... 133 Kates 4 hits ...
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 127,146

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 51 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 170
B5N2 Kate x 133



Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 9
F4F-3 Wildcat x 20
F4F-4 Wildcat x 73


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 39 destroyed, 14 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Formidable, Torpedo hits 3, heavy damage
CV Saratoga
CA Dorsetshire
CL Newcastle
CL Hobart, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Mauritius
CA Houston
DD Napier
CL Dauntless



Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
10 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
16 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
11 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(9 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 6 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
VMF-211 with F4F-3 Wildcat (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 5 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 5 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 51 minutes
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 5 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
VMF-121 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
VMF-122 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
VMF-221 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes


CAP ... really ?
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 126,145

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 166



Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 12
Martlet II x 9
F4F-3 Wildcat x 20
F4F-4 Wildcat x 61
SBD-3 Dauntless x 153
TBF-1 Avenger x 60


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 1 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Ise, Bomb hits 2
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 1
CVE Unyo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 5, on fire
DD Shiratsuyu
DD Hamakaze
CL Oi
DD Shigure
CL Jintsu, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Shirayuki
CVE Taiyo



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
6 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
6 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Chitose Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Ku S-1 /A with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /B with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
1st Ku S-1/A with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /C with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
6th Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Raid is overhead
2 planes vectored on to bombers
3rd Ku S-1/C with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
Zuiho-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
Hosho-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 7 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
Unyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 12 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Zuiho
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Junyo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Hiyo
Fuel storage explosion on CV Kaga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Unyo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Haruna



MORE CAP ...
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 126,145

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 146



Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13
SBD-3 Dauntless x 34
TBF-1 Avenger x 15


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Shoho, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Haruna, on fire
DD Kuroshio
DD Hayashio
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CL Oi, Bomb hits 1, on fire



Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
Chitose Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Ku S-1 /A with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
1st Ku S-1/A with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Ku S-1 /C with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
6th Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
3rd Ku S-1/C with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
Zuiho-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 10 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
10 planes vectored on to bombers
Hosho-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 7 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
Unyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 12 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 52 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Ku S-1 /B with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Zuiho
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Haruna


Come ON !!
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 127,146

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 58
B5N2 Kate x 11



Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 4
F4F-3 Wildcat x 14
F4F-4 Wildcat x 58


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 6 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Grayson
CV Lexington



CAP engaged:
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 3000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 5 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 5 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 4 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 4 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-121 with F4F-4 Wildcat (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-122 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-221 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers



Better ... but too late
quote:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 126,145

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 128



Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 2
Martlet II x 5
F4F-3 Wildcat x 19
F4F-4 Wildcat x 56
SBD-3 Dauntless x 145
TBF-1 Avenger x 56


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 1 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 23 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 1
DD Hatsukaze
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 7, on fire
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
CVL Zuiho, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CVE Unyo, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Taiyo, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Jintsu
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 2
DD Kawakaze
DD Arare
BB Ise, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1
DD Shigure
BB Kongo, Bomb hits 1
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Suzuya, Bomb hits 1
CL Sendai, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Shiratsuyu



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
10 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
11 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Chitose Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /A with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /B with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
6th Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 16 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 18 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
Zuiho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 10 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
Unyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 12 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Shoho
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Unyo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Zuiho
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Taiyo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Taiyo
Fuel storage explosion on CVL Shoho
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Taiyo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Hyuga



2 Hits ...
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 127,146

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 49 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 49
B5N2 Kate x 40



Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 3
F4F-3 Wildcat x 7
F4F-4 Wildcat x 44


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 14 destroyed, 5 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Saratoga, Torpedo hits 2
DD Caldwell



Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
3 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
3 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
3 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 12810.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-121 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 12810.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-122 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-221 with F4F-3 Wildcat (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers



Files:
combat
before
after
password anyong




So bring on the public humiliation - it could be a cathartic experience for me ;-)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 11/13/2011 5:22:22 AM >


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Post #: 1
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 1:05:17 AM   
nashvillen


Posts: 4045
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline
ewwww... yuck...



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Post #: 2
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 1:22:26 AM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Have a look at the inability of both sides (but more so the IJN) CAP and escorts to be effective.


Welcome to AE...

These were deliberate design decisions on the part of the folks who modded WitP to come up with AE. They were part of the faction who felt that CAP and Escorts were "wrong" in WitP...

One can argue until the cows come home one way or another, but the design won't be changed.

Maybe there will be a WitP III... (and then we, the paying customers, will likely see plenty of new and strange design decisions there too...)

The only "cure" for AE is to try to avoid "everything on one roll of the dice" sort of turns...

Just My Opinion...

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 3
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 2:14:20 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 22886
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
Terrible roll. Sorry, mate.

I would venture that the largest culprit here isn't the 40% CAP setting, but the altitude of your fighters. At 9k, they're not able to fend off the DBs before they tip over into their dive and build speed to catch those attackers below them. With 170+ fighters on CAP, you outnumbered your opponent's escort by more than 2:1. His raids should have been shredded wholesale.

ETA: Please provide us with the patch number or official version of the game you are using for this cautionary tale.

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Post #: 4
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 2:24:21 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4769
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Terrible roll. Sorry, mate.

I would venture that the largest culprit here isn't the 40% CAP setting, but the altitude of your fighters. At 9k, they're not able to fend off the DBs before they tip over into their dive and build speed to catch those attackers below them. With 170+ fighters on CAP, you outnumbered your opponent's escort by more than 2:1. His raids should have been shredded wholesale.

ETA: Please provide us with the patch number or official version of the game you are using for this cautionary tale.

Thanks Chickenboy -

Oh I agree with you, my alt settings were wrong (I was going for long range - but got caught out) but I also think that the 1 hex range with no radar meant that incoming strikes were less likely to be engaged in time...

This is Scen 2 & patched to Q9b

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Post #: 5
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 2:26:41 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6587
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
What's the date?

I'm admittedly getting my feet (re)wet with AE (coming from WitP Classic). But stacking that many CVs in a single TF has always been bad mojo.

-F-

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Post #: 6
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 2:27:37 AM   
sandman455


Posts: 209
Joined: 7/5/2011
From: 20 yrs ago - SDO -> med down, w/BC glasses on
Status: offline
Does appear that his cap was way more effective than yours. The 120nm is an abstract I'm sure (1 hex away), but I wonder if you would have done better by using different altitudes. And I'm not at all sure pulling the Vals off is a good idea. The more variety coming in, the more chance that at least some strike will get a good series of rolls that allows them to hit. Always viewed CV ops of WWII as a game of dice and those who get to throw more often have a better chance of seeing something good come up.

I'm even pondering about using small CVTF all moving together just so I can set up escort/strike/cap many different ways, hoping that flooding the zone might give me a small strike that hits hard versus some big one that fails. Likewise with the cap. Perhaps a few cap packages get good rolls and do well. They couldnt do much worse that that massive one you had. Ugh.   

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Gary S (USN 1320, 1985-1993)
AOCS 1985, VT10 1985-86, VT86 1986, VS41 1986-87
VS32 1987-90 (NSO/NWTO, deployed w/CV-66, CVN-71)
VS27 1990-91 (NATOPS/Safety)
SFWSLANT 1991-93 (AGM-84 All platforms, S-3 A/B systems)

(in reply to ADB123)
Post #: 7
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 2:31:05 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4769
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

What's the date?

I'm admittedly getting my feet (re)wet with AE (coming from WitP Classic). But stacking that many CVs in a single TF has always been bad mojo.

-F-

Date was Aug 21, 1942. And they weren't stacked into a single CVTF. I had 3 CVTF's to deal with coordination penalties.

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Post #: 8
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 2:34:36 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4769
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman455

Does appear that his cap was way more effective than yours. The 120nm is an abstract I'm sure (1 hex away), but I wonder if you would have done better by using different altitudes. And I'm not at all sure pulling the Vals off is a good idea. The more variety coming in, the more chance that at least some strike will get a good series of rolls that allows them to hit. Always viewed CV ops of WWII as a game of dice and those who get to throw more often have a better chance of seeing something good come up.

I'm even pondering about using small CVTF all moving together just so I can set up escort/strike/cap many different ways, hoping that flooding the zone might give me a small strike that hits hard versus some big one that fails. Likewise with the cap. Perhaps a few cap packages get good rolls and do well. They couldnt do much worse that that massive one you had. Ugh.   

Maybe you're right with the Val issue - but I've always thought that pulling them off in mid 42, for more fighters was a good idea. Esp. as my opponent does similar.

Anyway - live and learn. Just thought I'd share a really bad day ...

Might get Michael (NY59G) to re-run the turn with different settings as a "what if" - not that that will prove or disprove much

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 11/13/2011 2:35:02 AM >


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Post #: 9
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 2:51:28 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3434
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Terrible roll. Sorry, mate.

I would venture that the largest culprit here isn't the 40% CAP setting, but the altitude of your fighters. At 9k, they're not able to fend off the DBs before they tip over into their dive and build speed to catch those attackers below them. With 170+ fighters on CAP, you outnumbered your opponent's escort by more than 2:1. His raids should have been shredded wholesale.

ETA: Please provide us with the patch number or official version of the game you are using for this cautionary tale.



Absolutely correct about the altitude. Being underneath incoming raids not only removes any potential bouce but it also extends the time required to intercept. The good news is that most Japanese aicraft climb quickly but you are starting at a severe tactical disadvantage by having your fighters too low.

And 60% is a much better CAP figure to use.

Chez

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VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
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VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 10
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 2:51:28 AM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4082
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
Im guessing alt sure would have a different impact, but you have already addressed that.

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Post #: 11
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 3:21:34 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4769
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
Thanks for all the input. I agree with what you guys are telling me. My Bad mostly.

I'm just about to send a turnX back to Michael(NY59G).

I'm setting 60% cap and banding it from 18K down to 12K.

Will post the results tomorrow - just to satisfy my (and your) blood thirsty urges. I have a feeling though that it will be similar.

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Post #: 12
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 3:38:53 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9117
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
I am the 'lucky' Allied player. Like I've said in other postings, I like to keep the extra Marine groups on each of my American CVs. All but Enterprise had extra 18 plane Marine fighters. 27 + 18 = 45 for each of 4 CVs and another 27 for total of 222 fighters including one British CV (I have forgone the normal July re-sizing for now). I go by my old WITP way of setting altitudes - fighters at 15k, DBs at 12k, and TBs at 9k. I had my fighters on either 30 or 40% CAP and 20% rest.

As I had said to Damian in our PM, I think the number of planes on CAP and escort were mixed in the reports as neither of us had our CAP and/or escorts do what you would think they should do.

He was seen multiple turns ago by my PBYs, but they were at the end of my normal range. They were not there two turns before, but the turn before showed about 70 plus fighters, so I sent my CVs north to engage.

Besides the poor CAP and Escort performance, my biggest surprise was the lack of hits from his Kates.

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Post #: 13
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 3:59:38 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9117
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
Turn going back to Damian with some minor adjustments on my part. CAP is now 50% and the SC TF with 3 fast BBs (No. Carolina, Repulse, and Prince of Wales) along with 6 DDs leading the CVs to the combat zone. He will post results before I see them as its 11pm for me.

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(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 14
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 4:36:07 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6587
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
Sorry, when I this:

quote:

Japanese Ships
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Ise, Bomb hits 2
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 1
CVE Unyo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 5, on fire
DD Shiratsuyu
DD Hamakaze
CL Oi
DD Shigure
CL Jintsu, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Shirayuki
CVE Taiyo


I thought it was all in one TF.
-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 15
Part Deux - 11/13/2011 4:55:51 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4769
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
OK Michael just resent the turn. Unfortunately (for testing) my CV's were under cloud cover for the PM attacks, so the Allies failed to launch -- but damn it could have been even worse...

I've changed CAP to 60% and gone for alt tiering from 18K down to 12K with the majority at the higher ranges...

This doesn't change the dynamic - and I'm wondering if the hex range is really an abstraction or actually something that must be accounted for ...

Have a look.

A little better
quote:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 21, 42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 127,147

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 135
B5N2 Kate x 133



Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 9
F4F-3 Wildcat x 53
F4F-4 Wildcat x 87


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 32 destroyed, 15 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet II: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Formidable, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
CL Mauritius, Torpedo hits 1
CV Saratoga, Torpedo hits 1
CL Hobart, Torpedo hits 1
CA Dorsetshire
CL Dauntless
CA New Orleans
CA Exeter



Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
7 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
12 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
VF-6 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
VMF-121 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 9 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
VMF-122 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 9 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
VMF-211 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 8 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes
VMF-221 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 9 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes



Yeah BELOW - that changed NOTHING ... below most of the planes were killed after the fact, rather than before the strikes.
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 128,146

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 199



Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 12
Martlet II x 9
F4F-4 Wildcat x 65
SBD-3 Dauntless x 187
TBF-1 Avenger x 45


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Martlet II: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 9 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 29 destroyed, 20 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 3 destroyed by flak
TBF-1 Avenger: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
CVE Unyo, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 2
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Amatsukaze, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
DD Kawakaze
CVE Taiyo, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Junyo
DD Hayashio
DD Isokaze, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
DD Asagumo
DD Hamakaze, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Minegumo, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kuroshio
DD Nowaki



Aircraft Attacking:
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
12 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
5 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
6 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
13 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Chitose Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (5 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
10 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Ku S-1 /A with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Ku S-1 /B with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
1st Ku S-1/A with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
13th Ku S-1 /C with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
3rd Ku S-1/C with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (6 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (6 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
Zuiho-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Hosho-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
Unyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Shoho
Fuel storage explosion on CV Kaga
Massive explosion on CVE Taiyo
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Hosho
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Zuiho
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Yamato
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Hamakaze
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Unyo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Hiyo
Fuel storage explosion on CV Hiyo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Kaga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Isokaze

Where'd my CAP go ?
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 128,146

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 166



Allied aircraft
TBF-1 Avenger x 15


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Akebono
BB Ise
BB Hyuga, Torpedo hits 1
CV Junyo



Aircraft Attacking:
10 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
13th Ku S-1 /A with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /B with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 79 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /C with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
3rd Ku S-1/C with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 11440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 60 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 13080.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
Zuiho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 13080.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 58 minutes
Hosho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
Unyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
Chitose Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
15 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
1st Ku S-1/A with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes


Oh - there they are ...
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 128,146

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 147



Allied aircraft
TBF-1 Avenger x 15


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 6 destroyed



CAP engaged:
13th Ku S-1 /A with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /B with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
13th Ku S-1 /C with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
3rd Ku S-1/C with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 8 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 7 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 13080.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
Zuiho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
Hosho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
Unyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
Chitose Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 10 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
1st Ku S-1/A with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 1 on standby, 3 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes



CV Planes diverted to Ndeni - reform for an attack.
quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Vanikoro at 127,147

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N2 Kate x 3



Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 7
F4F-3 Wildcat x 42
F4F-4 Wildcat x 104


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses



CAP engaged:
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-221 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 2 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 10 scrambling)
(3 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
13 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 3000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-221 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 9 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
10 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 10 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
17 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-4 Wildcat (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 9 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-121 with F4F-4 Wildcat (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 8 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-122 with F4F-3 Wildcat (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 9 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
15 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-211 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 7 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers




< Message edited by n01487477 -- 11/13/2011 4:56:38 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 16
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 4:59:02 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4769
Joined: 2/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Sorry, when I this:

quote:

Japanese Ships
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Ise, Bomb hits 2
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 1
CVE Unyo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 5, on fire
DD Shiratsuyu
DD Hamakaze
CL Oi
DD Shigure
CL Jintsu, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Shirayuki
CVE Taiyo


I thought it was all in one TF.
-F-

In witp - you wouldn't see all of them lumped together if they were in seperate TF's. In AE it is different for the Japanese anyway... I note that I haven't seen this for the Allies when the IJN attacks though ... so comments ?

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Post #: 17
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 5:05:13 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8981
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
that was harsh...
The us is at adissadvantage through
42.. but they get so much in43 44 they essentially cn trade.. what happened to you while suprising is not out of bounds.. most of the time I am happy with only getting my US cv beat up and trying to put someof his cv in port for repairs...most of thetime I lose in 42 o zeta.. we are even in winter and then he hides in 43 as I gain the upper hand...
You may want to replay this as its going to be a long long war without your cvs..
goodluck...

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 18
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 5:21:06 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4769
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

that was harsh...
The us is at adissadvantage through
42.. but they get so much in43 44 they essentially cn trade.. what happened to you while suprising is not out of bounds.. most of the time I am happy with only getting my US cv beat up and trying to put someof his cv in port for repairs...most of thetime I lose in 42 o zeta.. we are even in winter and then he hides in 43 as I gain the upper hand...
You may want to replay this as its going to be a long long war without your cvs..
goodluck...

Was harsh in first try and sorta worse (or same) in the second test. I took this game over just to see if I could stop him in the New Heb. I'm not invested in it and the previous player lost 3 CV's earlier.

My issue here now is:
1. that at close range there seems to be issue.
2. the Allied planes went through like a hot knife through butter and were engaged at the end.
3. while my TF's are seperate Allied planes attacked all. IJN planes did not.
4. Alt & CAP% settings seem to have made only a little difference.
5. This could have been worse if the Allied attacks in Part Deux had attacked again in the PM phase.

I don't think the tone of any of my posts have been negative. But there is something that just doesn't feel right about this...twice.

_____________________________


(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 19
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 6:41:56 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 2871
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poznan, Poland
Status: offline
Why do some Dauntlesses release GP bombs on naval attack?

8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 20
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 7:38:20 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
Looking at these results i don´t think i´ll play AE again in the near future. Had the hope that the changed altitude for the Zero CAP
would change things. But obviously even a strong CAP will allow enough enemy planes to pass and do terrible damage.
Both times the attacks were too one sided. CAP too useless.

I´m the "previous player" Damian took the game over from. Sure, i lost the 3 CVs earlier because i was too careless,
but the CV Wasp was sunk weeks before by a sub attack and a brit CV was heavily damaged by a sub and probably out of action for a while.
Looking at the setup Damian used i wasn´t able to find that much i would have done different (except the CAP altitude in first attempt).



(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 21
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 8:51:23 AM   
Miller


Posts: 1736
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
Well one lesson learned, do not bother swapping out Val units for extra fighters. I usually adjust the fighter groups on CVLs to 24 or 27 planes instead. I would have blamed the poor performance of the Kates on bad weather, but less than half the number of Avengers do better in the same conditions!

Best tactic for the IJN is to double team with LBA. The Allies have to advance into the danger zone sooner or later.........

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 22
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 9:04:57 AM   
1275psi

 

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Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
My take on this:

its the 1 hex range.

read shattered sword, and think about this.........just how much warning does the CAP get, especially if half of it is on the wrong side of the fleet -and no radios.
Not very much

second point

coral sea ---------the bombers get through
santa cruz, the bombers get through.
In fact, every single time, every single clash the bombers (allied) get through.
Only once at midway, hendersons attack, they did not, and that took all of a well warned, in position, ready CAP to stop it.

My two cents.........simulation working well, results for allies as expected!

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 23
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 9:13:56 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

My take on this:

its the 1 hex range.

read shattered sword, and think about this.........just how much warning does the CAP get, especially if half of it is on the wrong side of the fleet -and no radios.
Not very much

second point

coral sea ---------the bombers get through
santa cruz, the bombers get through.
In fact, every single time, every single clash the bombers (allied) get through.
Only once at midway, hendersons attack, they did not, and that took all of a well warned, in position, ready CAP to stop it.

My two cents.........simulation working well, results for allies as expected!



OK, but what about the extreme bad performance of the japanese torpedo bombers ?? How do you explain this ?
Maybe Michael and Damian can run more tests with this setup trying to see what happens at 4 or more hexes distance.

(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 24
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 9:16:56 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2779
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
Vals and kates work well together in my opinion.. The divebombers do damage to the flattops and that often slows them down for the torpedo bombers...

There seems to be an issue with detection though (lopsided even), and that might be the reason your assault got shredded and his didn't.. If your one hex from the enemy TF they can never detect the raid at 120 NM.. or can they

Thunderstorms impacted as well probably. Torpedobombers are not great in bad weather. Divebombers usually do a bit better. Your fighters had huge issues detecting and engaging the raid..



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"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivo

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 25
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 9:18:59 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2779
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I would have blamed the poor performance of the Kates on bad weather, but less than half the number of Avengers do better in the same conditions!


My bet is that is that it has to do with the divebomber/torpedobomber combination.. damaged ships make great torpedo targets

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivo

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 26
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day (twice) - 11/13/2011 9:43:27 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477
1. that at close range there seems to be issue.
2. the Allied planes went through like a hot knife through butter and were engaged at the end.


Was my first thought when I saw the results you posted, CAP % and alt came second.
I think detetction range is an abstraction (here its pretty obvious with 1 hex distance and contact @120nm), maybe
this tackles with the CAP routines when the TFs are so close.


quote:


3. while my TF's are seperate Allied planes attacked all. IJN planes did not.


For this one has to see the turn so I can´t comment, there are two major differences between your forces and the enemy (even more obvious in the first CR), and
this is CAP effectiveness and hit probability. Also see my comment on a/c composition below.

You say "attacked all", does this mean that not all enemy CVs were attacked?

quote:


4. Alt & CAP% settings seem to have made only a little difference.
5. This could have been worse if the Allied attacks in Part Deux had attacked again in the PM phase.


Agree I would have expected more difference too.



From what I have seen in your thread up to now, I think the reason for the defeat is something else (sadly hard to replay with the turn):

Removing the Vals from the carriers for additional fighters is a mistake IMHO.
This was the deciding factor.

Vals don´t usually sink carriers, agreed, but they "mark" targets, kill AAA ships, and disperse AAA, kill devices...
2 250kg bomb hits on a carrier and he has a DL out of the roof and reduced mvr, and will act as a torp magnet for the rest of the attack.
Hit a couple of em with bombs and the opponents CV´s will have a very bad day evading torps. Kates only are a risk.

Torp bombers also are more sensitive to bad weather.

< Message edited by LoBaron -- 11/13/2011 9:48:13 AM >


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Post #: 27
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day (twice) - 11/13/2011 9:51:34 AM   
seille

 

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From: Germany
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@LoBaron

But wouldn´t the original setup of the jap CVs with their Val groups make them MUCH more vulnerable to the allied bombers ?
For what are the few additional bomb hits good for (even 1-2 allied CVs sunk) when the jap player loses his complete CV fleet ?

Hard to believe the outcome would be better with only half the Zeros on the japanese carriers. Maybe worth another test run.
Damian ? Michael ? Any chance you runs the turn a few more times with changed setup ?
I would really like if there is a way to improve the result in a way the japanese navy doesn´t stop to exist after the fight.

< Message edited by seille -- 11/13/2011 9:55:00 AM >

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 28
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 9:53:46 AM   
viberpol


Posts: 834
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Thanks for all the input. I agree with what you guys are telling me. My Bad mostly.

I'm just about to send a turnX back to Michael(NY59G).

I'm setting 60% cap and banding it from 18K down to 12K.

Will post the results tomorrow - just to satisfy my (and your) blood thirsty urges. I have a feeling though that it will be similar.


Well, I must say there's been much more examples of ineffective CAP on the forum lately...
See the PzBs AAR for example. Not so long ago I was amazed why enemy raids go through my CAP of 200 fighters like a knife with very little engagement.
Maybe that's the weather (Thunderstorms? In my oil raid Soerabaja/Palembang example there were thunderstorms too) that affects CAP and has little effect on the bombing effectivenes?
Sooo... maybe there's something to it.

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(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 29
RE: How I lost 5 CV/CVL + 2 Sinking in a day - 11/13/2011 9:58:59 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2779
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Thanks for all the input. I agree with what you guys are telling me. My Bad mostly.

I'm just about to send a turnX back to Michael(NY59G).

I'm setting 60% cap and banding it from 18K down to 12K.

Will post the results tomorrow - just to satisfy my (and your) blood thirsty urges. I have a feeling though that it will be similar.


Well, I must say there's been much more examples of ineffective CAP on the forum lately...
See the PzBs AAR for example. Not so long ago I was amazed why enemy raids go through my CAP of 200 fighters like a knife with very little engagement.
Maybe that's the weather (Thunderstorms? In my oil raid Soerabaja/Palembang example there were thunderstorms too) that affects CAP and has little effect on the bombing effectivenes?
Sooo... maybe there's something to it.


As I said earlier, Radar makes a huge difference... In my PBEM I installed radar on Zuikaku/Shokaku as soon as available.. It makes a huge difference in intercepts.

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivo

(in reply to viberpol)
Post #: 30
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