Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week: Command Ops goes half price!New Fronts are opening up for Commander: The Great WarCharacters of World War 1Sign of for the Pike and Shot Beta!More Games are Coming to Steam! Return to the Moon on October 31st! Commander: The Great War iPad Wallpapers Generals of the Great WarDeal of the Week Panzer CorpsNew Strategy Titles Join the Family
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Matrix games on Steam?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: Matrix games on Steam? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/11/2011 11:02:57 PM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Take in to account also that Steam take 30%



The games Steam sell are digital products.
Those products are already made,...so no large cost for development.
Selling a digital product after it has been created/finished/patched costs next to nothing, since their is no physical storage, shipping and no production/development required.
These facts mean that 30% of a few sales is almost all profit, while 100% of nothing is always nothing.
This is also the reason why some are miffed about prices rarely going down. Getting many more sales at a reduced price (and mostly profit) is better than not getting the sales because the price is never reduced.


But part of the problem is that once you get on steam, many people will expect all your future games to show up too. Lets say you finally get Steam to accept wargame X. Its an amazing game that garnered awards up the yinyang.It shows up on steam at a low price(let's say 19.99) Few bite, maybe a 1k or so because most who frequent Steam can't get a handle on it.The grogs already own it. Then Steam has their inevitable mini sale of your game and the price hits 3 bucks, or thereabouts. Some more buy it...Lets say 4-6K.
For the company making it its great. Thats more than they would make than if they sold it on their site. Everyone is happy. Except for Steam...... To them that 4-6k at 30% is not worth the hassle..They want 30k+ sellers..They don't want the next game. But customers now expect the company to sell their games at Steam prices or else...Customers are fickle...Sure the grogs who have been there all along will buy but not Johnny Newbie. He is off to the next shiny thing.


_____________________________

My life is complete. 1000 Matrix posts.....

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 61
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/11/2011 11:22:02 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5490
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Regarding comparisons to Steam, while I also use Steam, it's worth noting that all of our games are DRM-free. As long as you download them once (or get the physical copy) and store the file and the serial number, there's nothing else you need from us. If Matrix disappears (hopefully not!) in the future, it won't matter as long as you keep your copies in a place where you can find them. I still have my boxed games for my Apple II+ in the basement, so it's not that hard. I can't say the same for all my Steam games.

Regards,

- Erik




Exactly Erik! I don't understand what the fascination with Steam is other than the prices or why some people whine and complain about Matrix's purchase policies. Matrix by far has the best purchase policy and options of any gaming company I know of. Once you own a Matrix game you REALLY own it! Can't say the same for many other games out there.

_____________________________

My WitP webpage: https://sites.google.com/site/garyswitpsite/


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 62
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/11/2011 11:28:20 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 5490
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I enjoy using Steam. It's essentially almost a one stop shop - and does have some great deals. I'm by no means a lover of it - but it suits my purpose.

What I would say though is the Matrix system is somewhat flawed. The transition from Digital River to Plimus was meant to be (and on the surface seemed to be) a good thing for us. As is, I'm not entirely sure how I can re-download a game I purchased should I have to and in fact cannot (and have never been able to) get the details of a game


I would look at the option to re-download games as a "perk" not an entitlement. Once you own a game you should be responsible enough to maintain the existence of your copy. Order a physical copy as I do. I still DL the game and play on the spot but I also have that magical thing called a "backup" when I lose my HD. I'm sure it costs matrix money to maintain order histories and everything to facilitate redownloading of games. Be happy the option exists at all.

_____________________________

My WitP webpage: https://sites.google.com/site/garyswitpsite/


(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 63
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/11/2011 11:43:44 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2261
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
I find it fascinating that NWS is able to sell physical copies for lesser prices than Matrix sells downloads. Is it because of the redownloading thing?

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 64
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/12/2011 12:36:38 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I find it fascinating that NWS is able to sell physical copies for lesser prices than Matrix sells downloads. Is it because of the redownloading thing?


I'm assuming they(NWS) get wholesale prices and can pass along a discount. Matrix could do that but don't......

_____________________________

My life is complete. 1000 Matrix posts.....

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 65
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/12/2011 1:43:32 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8474
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I enjoy using Steam. It's essentially almost a one stop shop - and does have some great deals. I'm by no means a lover of it - but it suits my purpose.

What I would say though is the Matrix system is somewhat flawed. The transition from Digital River to Plimus was meant to be (and on the surface seemed to be) a good thing for us. As is, I'm not entirely sure how I can re-download a game I purchased should I have to and in fact cannot (and have never been able to) get the details of a game


I would look at the option to re-download games as a "perk" not an entitlement. Once you own a game you should be responsible enough to maintain the existence of your copy. Order a physical copy as I do. I still DL the game and play on the spot but I also have that magical thing called a "backup" when I lose my HD. I'm sure it costs matrix money to maintain order histories and everything to facilitate redownloading of games. Be happy the option exists at all.

You know what? I did have a hard copy. I did have a digital download on my main PC....I just went to Holland "thinking" it was on my laptop - and it wasn't. That isn't Matrix fault...it's mine...my point is, had it been a Steam game I would have downloaded it and installed it within seconds....I had to wait for Matrix Support to get back to me...which I admit wasn't a massive inconvenience - but an inconvenience none-the-less.

I've already said here and elsewhere that it's not their responsibility to store peoples downloads and allow them to re-download adhoc....but it would be a bloody nice to have - especially from a company that apparently prides itself in it's customer support. Hell - I can't even view an order I made from Matrix for Plimus through Paypal!!! Really?

Surely it's not a big deal to ask to allow me to log onto Plimus and view my orders....seems it is as I could not because I paid via Paypal....and as for the re-download issue...I'm not the only one to suffer from the fact that I cannot log into my account and download the game I bought a year ago...

Sorry - before I get accused of whining - can anyone else who has paid for their games via paypal able to view their orders through Plimus? It is NOT possible and that is not acceptable.

God forbid your download is ever corrupted and you find yourself with a DVD that will not install - the point being is we can all be caught short.

If Steam where to go bye bye then I really wouldn't have lost out....their games (and the ones I've bought) are either cheap or games I'm not really bothered about losing. Matrix Games on the other hand charge a premium for their games and I expect to be able to play them in the near and distant future...so for me there is a different perception between the providers....Steam go belly up, I cry not a jot...Matrix go belly up, I cry a lot

The added bonus with Matrix is they do not have to be there when I want to play. Although with their current system, I would need to contact someone for my order - becuase I paid by paypal and whilst that is an accepted method of payment, it's not allowed on their website when viewing your orders!

BUT they COULD go one step further by providing the users with the ability to re-download their orders as well as allowing downloads as and when required - without the need for customer support - and allowing users who paid via Paypal to view their orders....

_____________________________

JudgeDredd
I AM the Law!

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 66
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/12/2011 1:54:19 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
Not that this can't happen to any digital distro store ...

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/243596/steam_gets_hacked_heres_how_to_keep_safe.html#tk.hp_new



_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to apathetic lurker)
Post #: 67
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/12/2011 7:24:51 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2261
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Take in to account also that Steam take 30%



The games Steam sell are digital products.
Those products are already made,...so no large cost for development.
Selling a digital product after it has been created/finished/patched costs next to nothing, since their is no physical storage, shipping and no production/development required.
These facts mean that 30% of a few sales is almost all profit, while 100% of nothing is always nothing.
This is also the reason why some are miffed about prices rarely going down. Getting many more sales at a reduced price (and mostly profit) is better than not getting the sales because the price is never reduced.


But part of the problem is that once you get on steam, many people will expect all your future games to show up too. Lets say you finally get Steam to accept wargame X. Its an amazing game that garnered awards up the yinyang.It shows up on steam at a low price(let's say 19.99) Few bite, maybe a 1k or so because most who frequent Steam can't get a handle on it.The grogs already own it. Then Steam has their inevitable mini sale of your game and the price hits 3 bucks, or thereabouts. Some more buy it...Lets say 4-6K.
For the company making it its great. Thats more than they would make than if they sold it on their site. Everyone is happy. Except for Steam...... To them that 4-6k at 30% is not worth the hassle..They want 30k+ sellers..They don't want the next game. But customers now expect the company to sell their games at Steam prices or else...Customers are fickle...Sure the grogs who have been there all along will buy but not Johnny Newbie. He is off to the next shiny thing.

Unless it would work as the first free dose of the drug.

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to apathetic lurker)
Post #: 68
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/12/2011 4:20:22 PM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
You would practically have to give away one of your big sellers to get Steam to bite on a deal. And then you would have to hope the future doses are as good and as cheap.

_____________________________

My life is complete. 1000 Matrix posts.....

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 69
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/12/2011 6:17:17 PM   
wodin


Posts: 7862
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
If Matrix games where on Steam there would be no Matrix games. As they are the publisher not the developers.Is this right?

(in reply to Gelatinous Cube)
Post #: 70
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/12/2011 9:44:42 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

If Matrix games where on Steam there would be no Matrix games. As they are the publisher not the developers.Is this right?



Steam is just a delivery method.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 71
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/12/2011 11:40:58 PM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1494
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline
Hmm, to be honest, I was wondering why a special thread for this was not even started yet:
quote:


The steam forums were hacked last saturday, and now it seems the hackers also gained access to Steam itself and were able to access user names, email addresses, hashed passwords, billing addresses and encrypted credit card information.


Puts things in a whole new perspective...


_____________________________



King-Tigers don't let Tiger-I's get over-run.

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 72
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/13/2011 12:23:44 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2261
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

You would practically have to give away one of your big sellers to get Steam to bite on a deal. And then you would have to hope the future doses are as good and as cheap.

So, Steam is basically devaluating games in eyes of its customers?

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to apathetic lurker)
Post #: 73
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/13/2011 2:08:31 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

You would practically have to give away one of your big sellers to get Steam to bite on a deal. And then you would have to hope the future doses are as good and as cheap.

So, Steam is basically devaluating games in eyes of its customers?


Nope, but they like money and they work volume over quality

_____________________________

My life is complete. 1000 Matrix posts.....

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 74
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/13/2011 8:59:17 AM   
martok


Posts: 807
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

If Matrix games where on Steam there would be no Matrix games. As they are the publisher not the developers.Is this right?



Steam is just a delivery method.

And a swastika's just a Tibetan good luck charm.




_____________________________

"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal


(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 75
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/13/2011 9:18:22 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2261
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: martok


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

If Matrix games where on Steam there would be no Matrix games. As they are the publisher not the developers.Is this right?



Steam is just a delivery method.

And a swastika's just a Tibetan good luck charm.

Of course not. Swastika was a good luck charm on all continents and its first known use was dated on 10000 years ago.

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to martok)
Post #: 76
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/13/2011 2:43:56 PM   
J P Falcon

 

Posts: 2262
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline
This discussion has run out of steam..........

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 77
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/13/2011 4:45:01 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 2855
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: martok


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

If Matrix games where on Steam there would be no Matrix games. As they are the publisher not the developers.Is this right?



Steam is just a delivery method.

And a swastika's just a Tibetan good luck charm.

Of course not. Swastika was a good luck charm on all continents and its first known use was dated on 10000 years ago.


But it is not the same one, the one I've seen all over the place in India is a mirror of the nazi one.



_____________________________

"Games lubricate the body and the mind" Ben Franklin.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 78
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/13/2011 5:10:06 PM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

This discussion has run out of steam..........


LOL


_____________________________

My life is complete. 1000 Matrix posts.....

(in reply to J P Falcon)
Post #: 79
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/13/2011 5:56:29 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2261
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: martok


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

If Matrix games where on Steam there would be no Matrix games. As they are the publisher not the developers.Is this right?



Steam is just a delivery method.

And a swastika's just a Tibetan good luck charm.

Of course not. Swastika was a good luck charm on all continents and its first known use was dated on 10000 years ago.


But it is not the same one, the one I've seen all over the place in India is a mirror of the nazi one.



Nazi Swastika is tilded, not a mirror of the standard one. And Nazis didn't have a monopoly for the tilted swastika, so the only Nazi swastika is the one on the flag of Nazi Germany - placed on the round white field on a red flag.

Here's a gallery with swastikas in various cultures.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 11/13/2011 5:58:51 PM >


_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 80
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/14/2011 5:08:35 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2767
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I find it fascinating that NWS is able to sell physical copies for lesser prices than Matrix sells downloads. Is it because of the redownloading thing?


Yes, I think that way too. For NWS Boxed, you cannot redownload (or maybe you can if you ask Matrix).
But when you buy from Matrix, you can download in addition to the box. So the additional value is there which justifies the additional $$$.

But I really don't like how Plimus operates (questionable exchange rate and difficulty in the redownload process) compared to Digital River.

< Message edited by jomni -- 11/14/2011 5:11:23 AM >


_____________________________

My Blog
Random Wargame Name Generator

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 81
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/14/2011 7:39:26 AM   
martok


Posts: 807
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: martok


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

If Matrix games where on Steam there would be no Matrix games. As they are the publisher not the developers.Is this right?



Steam is just a delivery method.

And a swastika's just a Tibetan good luck charm.

Of course not. Swastika was a good luck charm on all continents and its first known use was dated on 10000 years ago.

*snicker*

I stand corrected.




_____________________________

"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal


(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 82
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/14/2011 2:20:52 PM   
Goragg

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

The serial number issue is one we're addressing. You no longer have to enter serials for patches - it looks them up and auto enters them for you. New patches will have this easier to use system. We could even skip the step completely if it detects a valid serial.

On the Steam argyuments we're not convionced that the Steam audience is a good match for the majority of the catalogue. Take in to account also that Steam take 30%, you have to customise your code to use their system which is a significant amount of work for the number of games we're talking about and Steam absolutely require you to slash your prices. Overall you have to sell a lot more copies to just stand still in terms of revenues. It is not teh alm dunk that everyone thinks it is. It also fragments the community which has an intagible cost but something we are very aware of and reluctant to do.

Another thing to bear in mind is Steam get 200 submissions a week and only 1 person allocated to review them. I'd guess only about 1% of the games people try to get on steam actually get on steam. The vast majority are never looked at or rejected. I'm guessing the majority of our line up would slide to the "dont even review category :)"

Having said all this it may be something we trial at some point. Never say never!




Thank you!

That explains a lot. I can see the reluctance now and understand why. I also see that the potential may be there in the future.

I will continue to window shop and who knows one day I may take the risk.

I keep hoping to see ASL in computer form and if anyone would have it I thought Matrix would.


(in reply to Iain McNeil)
Post #: 83
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/15/2011 12:53:52 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goragg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

The serial number issue is one we're addressing. You no longer have to enter serials for patches - it looks them up and auto enters them for you. New patches will have this easier to use system. We could even skip the step completely if it detects a valid serial.

On the Steam argyuments we're not convionced that the Steam audience is a good match for the majority of the catalogue. Take in to account also that Steam take 30%, you have to customise your code to use their system which is a significant amount of work for the number of games we're talking about and Steam absolutely require you to slash your prices. Overall you have to sell a lot more copies to just stand still in terms of revenues. It is not teh alm dunk that everyone thinks it is. It also fragments the community which has an intagible cost but something we are very aware of and reluctant to do.

Another thing to bear in mind is Steam get 200 submissions a week and only 1 person allocated to review them. I'd guess only about 1% of the games people try to get on steam actually get on steam. The vast majority are never looked at or rejected. I'm guessing the majority of our line up would slide to the "dont even review category :)"

Having said all this it may be something we trial at some point. Never say never!




Thank you!

That explains a lot. I can see the reluctance now and understand why. I also see that the potential may be there in the future.

I will continue to window shop and who knows one day I may take the risk.

I keep hoping to see ASL in computer form and if anyone would have it I thought Matrix would.




Window shop until the Thanksgiving sale...then go crazy !


_____________________________

My life is complete. 1000 Matrix posts.....

(in reply to Goragg)
Post #: 84
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/15/2011 5:17:09 AM   
Hentzau


Posts: 150
Joined: 8/31/2004
Status: offline
Steam is so yesterday, Storm Powered is the way to go. LMAO

(in reply to apathetic lurker)
Post #: 85
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/15/2011 5:52:04 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hentzau

Steam is so yesterday, Storm Powered is the way to go. LMAO



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL !

I wish them luck......But I won't be visiting anytime soon......

< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 11/15/2011 5:55:30 AM >


_____________________________

My life is complete. 1000 Matrix posts.....

(in reply to Hentzau)
Post #: 86
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/15/2011 7:53:20 AM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4601
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hentzau

Steam is so yesterday, Storm Powered is the way to go. LMAO



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL !

I wish them luck......But I won't be visiting anytime soon......


I do visit them - for documentation purposes for my new book "Top 10 reasons why businesses fail"

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to apathetic lurker)
Post #: 87
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/15/2011 1:59:21 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2261
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
I remember reading their announcement. It was creepy as hell.

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 88
RE: Matrix games on Steam? - 11/15/2011 4:41:16 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32881
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Please keep it civil, folks.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 89
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: Matrix games on Steam? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.156