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Babes Website Facelift - 11/6/2011 5:03:31 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		M'kay, so I saw the 2 pages of instructions to do a simple download and install; and the steps were multitudes; and the multitudes were conditional; and the conditions were obscure; and there was a pain, therefore, throughout the tribes of Babes; and the pain was sharp; and the pain was in their butts; and it came to pass that someone recalled a virtue; and the virtue was simplicity; and the virtue became the deed; and the deed became performed. So it was written. So it was done.

Reorganizing the site. Putting all the scen and AI files into their own little boxes. 'A' and 'B' files have their own separate pages; each 'B' page has the necessary map art and data files to make the scens work. Bit of duplication, but worth it.

Each 'A' or 'B' page has "complete" download and install instructions. Because everything is more rationally collected together, these are all very simple and specific. Woof !!

Rather than having people do the renumber dance for QuietChina stuff, I specified QC scenarios as separate numbers. Scen026 has a QC version as Scen036, Scen027 has QC Scen037, Scen028 has QC Scen038, Scen029 has QC Scen039. All the scenario files have the corresponding AI files included in the scenario download. So it's just a simple download and unzip into the game's SCEN folder, for 'A' scenarios (Babes or BabesLite).

'B' scenarios have a bit more to do, because they have the Map Art and Data to download. Also, they have the same file numbering as the the 'A' scenarios. So a bit more explanation and install instructions are needed, but nowhere near 2 pages of that stuff.

So we ended up with:

Scen026, BabesLite-A, Stock Map, Dec. 7 Start
Scen027, BabesLite-A, Stock Map, Dec. 8 Start
Scen028, DaBigBabes-A, Stock Map, Dec. 7 Start
Scen029, DaBigBabes-A, Stock Map, Dec. 8 Start
Scen036, BabesLite-A, Stock Map, QuietChina Dec. 7 Start
Scen037, BabesLite-A, Stock Map, QuietChina Dec. 8 Start
Scen038, DaBigBabes-A, Stock Map, QuietChina, Dec. 7 Start
Scen039, DaBigBabes-A, Stock Map, QuietChina, Dec. 8 Start

A place for every duck, and a duck in every place, with a quack from every beak, complete with the corresponding AI files. The 'B' version scenarios are exactly the same, so one either overwrites what's there or renumbers according to the instructions to 046-049 and 056-059. So folks can have ALL the Babes scenarios in their SCEN folder if they want and will only need to swap the Map Art and Map Data in and out.

The Map Art for Babes only has the 8 panels that are necessary to swap the map from Stock to Extended. There is NO reason to download the entire Ext Map unless you want to. The Extended Map site will still be provided as a courtesy to Andrew, but the Babes_MapArt_and_Data files will be completely suficient to make the Stock Map into the Extended Map. This should make life much easier, and take up much less hard drive space.

Another nice thing that doing it this way allows is to let us capture AndyMac's AI updates. Andy is furiously grinding away but, alas, his efforts likely won't show up in the official stock scenarios. So why not give him a access to a fairly widely distributed vehicle, as well as keeping both of the Babes as state-of-the-art as possible within the confines of the game system?

So there you have it. Site is still under a bit of construction, but a lot of this is already in place. Should be finished soon.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/6/2011 6:45:06 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 12954
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks John!

Question regarding our use of your Mod as our template for Perfect War: Is the Extended Map compatable with simply adding to the work we've already done? Additionally, what is the status of the stacking limitations? Woudl really like to combine all that into the Mod prior to our release.

Appreciate all the hard work you guys are doing.
John


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Post #: 2
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/6/2011 7:05:28 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Thanks John!

Question regarding our use of your Mod as our template for Perfect War: Is the Extended Map compatable with simply adding to the work we've already done?

Yes. And I have a no-brainer changelog that lets any scenario based on the stock map to easily convert to the Extended map; step-by-step. I'll send that to you and the fat guy.
quote:

Additionally, what is the status of the stacking limitations? Woudl really like to combine all that into the Mod prior to our release.
Appreciate all the hard work you guys are doing.
John

Babes team has a very solid algorithm going and a very good pwhexe.dat file. It's slightly different from Andrew Brown's original version but AB thinks there are some nice things in it, so maybe AB will use it too. We like to think so.

Up to you, but the latest and greatest is up on the website. It's in both Stock Map and Ext Map versions, and we also included the non SL files for Stock and Ext so if somebody screws up they can come back and download the nominals without reloading the whole game. Ain't we sweet?

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Post #: 3
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/6/2011 7:17:09 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 12954
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Well done. This is especially true of us technical IDIOTS!

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Post #: 4
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/6/2011 8:34:14 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1406
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		JWE -

All good stuff, and professionally done (I would expect nothing else).

Thank You, Sir.

Mac

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Post #: 5
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/6/2011 9:42:08 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2298
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Not being as eloquent as the others,

you da man!

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Post #: 6
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/8/2011 2:29:57 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2546
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Dontblinkyoullmissit, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Well done. This is especially true of us technical IDIOTS!


I resemble that statement.... and will accept all the help I can get!

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Post #: 7
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/8/2011 4:44:33 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 19726
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online 		Double checking to be sure - from looking at the revised site I'm assuming that "C" has been deprecated? BTW I am not asking for it to be kept up. If it isn't popular enough that doesn't make sense, I'm just checking.

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Post #: 8
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/8/2011 5:10:40 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Nope, nope, site is still under construction, and the C version will get its own page. Its been downloaded over 60 times, so 'somebody' is playing around with it. We'll continue to host all the Babes scenarios, just make the site a bit more informative and user friendly. Let ya know when everything is polished and ready.

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Post #: 9
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/8/2011 5:22:44 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 19726
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online 		Oh, cool!

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Post #: 10
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/9/2011 12:42:52 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 4761
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Nope, nope, site is still under construction, and the C version will get its own page. Its been downloaded over 60 times, so 'somebody' is playing around with it. We'll continue to host all the Babes scenarios, just make the site a bit more informative and user friendly. Let ya know when everything is polished and ready.


I was surprised you gave out the data on the number of downloads. Might be an effect of the random act of culture posted by Mynok.

Anyway, if you are still in the festive mood, any chance of posting the comparable download figures for the various DaBabes scenarios (light and big)?

Alfred

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Post #: 11
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/9/2011 1:17:20 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 19726
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Nope, nope, site is still under construction, and the C version will get its own page. Its been downloaded over 60 times, so 'somebody' is playing around with it. We'll continue to host all the Babes scenarios, just make the site a bit more informative and user friendly. Let ya know when everything is polished and ready.


Just got C, thanks.

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Post #: 12
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/9/2011 6:44:08 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Okey dokey, face lift done and the patient lived. And looks a little better than Joan Rivers.

@Alfred
BabesLite-A Scen026-v11 has been downloaded 213 times since Aug. 1, 2011. Scen027 and the 'B' versions somewhat less, but presumably many of the Scen026 people also got 027 and the 'B' versions, so it's not quite Kosher to add them together. There may be people who only downloaded 027, or a 'B' version, so 213 might be a skoosh conservative, but good enough for our purposes.

DaBigBabes-B Scen028-v09 has been downloaded 136 times since Sept. 17, 2011. Surprisingly this a bit more than 028-A. Not a lot, but enough to notice. This alone says something interesting.

There's a ton of people out there still playing with older revisions. But I'm guessing many of them snagged the new stuff for their SCEN folders for the next go-around. So swag'n it right out of the brown place, I guess we got maybe 300 or so active Babes players out there.

Just as a bizarro factoid, Michaelm's latest beta, 1108q9b has been downloaded 415 times, and there's skillions of folks who are still running the last official patch 1106i. The number of people who play this title is immense. 98% of them don't post, they just look in from time to time to grab what they need.

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RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/9/2011 7:45:29 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 4761
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		JWE,

Thank you for the data provided.

I'm not surprised at the greater number of downloads of BabesLite. Its greater popularity I attribute to the ease of installation and compatability with stock. Not everyone who plays complex GG games is necessarily equally at ease in handling computer technology. So compatability with stock will always provide a major marketing edge for any mod.

The really interesting figure is the number of downloads of the latest beta which is not that much greater than the aggregated DaBabes downloads (even limiting the quantum to only those downloads since August and disregarding the earlier ones). I think that figure does truly put into context the very small minority of AE players who regularly post in the forum. I have absolutely no doubt that the overwhelming majority of AE owners do not regularly post in the forum. Furthermore, most owners of AE would play only against the AI. In fact I believe you might well be surprised at the number who still play a version older than the last official patch 1106i.

Really, it helps to place into context all the whinning from the usual suspects (witness the current bombing is borked BS). That the devs ever pay them any attention is above and beyond the call of duty. Of course listening to well reasoned and presented ideas is another matter.

Alfred

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Post #: 14
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/9/2011 8:06:12 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 6348
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel/Serbia
Status: offline 		Well, I only play DaBigBabes A nowadays.

When it was released, I saw no need to go back to anything else. Only play A-version, since I don't want to complicate my life too much.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


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Post #: 15
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/9/2011 8:33:36 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 4761
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Well, I only play DaBigBabes A nowadays.

When it was released, I saw no need to go back to anything else. Only play A-version, since I don't want to complicate my life too much.


But you don't really count, you are far more computer literate than many who play the game. So I'm not surprised you went directly to "A". Plus you're not one of the usual suspects.

Anyway, for someone already with "A" and the latest beta, just how much more complicated could life become with "C".

Alfred

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Post #: 16
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/12/2011 4:55:26 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1406
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		JWE -

Just fired up my computer for the weekend, and checked the Babes website. Very well done - a very logical layout, with a concise description of what each version stands for. This coming from a computer challenged guy - if I can understand it, anyone can.

The DBB C version briefing was most helpful - I now clearly understand that the AI is a no go with "C"; so reverted to the H2H "learning" game.

Kudos to the Babes Team - I love the hex stacking limit mod (note: Real Men use Hex Stacking Limits...<grin>) That will probably get me spanked...

My sincere gratitude to you and your Team, Sir.

Another "Thank You" to Michaelm for his outstanding work. Babes plus newest Beta = a first class gaming experience.

Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 11/12/2011 5:14:22 AM >

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RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/12/2011 5:42:52 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you very kindly, Mac.

I am going to do a bit of a face-lift on the Stack Limit page, too. The data won't change, but the layout will change a bit. The Babes SLs are a teensy bit different from the original version. Just want to make it clear that the various SL-based pwhexe files are not exactly the same. I'll put some discussion in about what Stacking Limits' primary purpose is, what they do, and what they don't do, and how (and where) they effect gameplay.

So I'm going to have:
A map data zip file with Babes SLs for the Extended Map;
A map data zip file with Babes SLs for the Stock Map;
A map data zip file with the "original data" for the Extended Map;
A map data zip file with the "original data" for the Stock Map;

The 'originals' are there so if somebody gets confused, they can just download those and get back to square-one.

_____________________________

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Post #: 18
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/13/2011 5:26:52 PM   
Richard III


Posts: 606
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Just returning to AE after years away. Amazied by all the work you guys have put into this. What would be a correct sequence of installs for the Game /

I assume the Matrix Offical patch, then BabesLite A versions and then the 11080q9 Beta ?

Did read your updated site but can I ask if the lites A just have data changes and will use the Game AI and stock map ?

TIA
Rich

< Message edited by Richard III -- 11/13/2011 5:30:36 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/13/2011 6:16:13 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 6348
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel/Serbia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Just returning to AE after years away. Amazied by all the work you guys have put into this. What would be a correct sequence of installs for the Game /

I assume the Matrix Offical patch, then BabesLite A versions and then the 11080q9 Beta ?

Did read your updated site but can I ask if the lites A just have data changes and will use the Game AI and stock map ?

TIA
Rich


You are correct.

Beta patches do not touch scenario data and deal with executable only. So you are fine installing them whenever after official game patch.

But you just to have to play on Allied side vs AI in DaBigBabes and it'll give you decent game. Japanese side won't work at all. BabesLite is OK on both sides.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


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Post #: 20
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/16/2011 5:50:41 PM   
Aces8


Posts: 2252
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Just returning to AE after years away. Amazied by all the work you guys have put into this. What would be a correct sequence of installs for the Game /

I assume the Matrix Offical patch, then BabesLite A versions and then the 11080q9 Beta ?

Did read your updated site but can I ask if the lites A just have data changes and will use the Game AI and stock map ?

TIA
Rich


You are correct.

Beta patches do not touch scenario data and deal with executable only. So you are fine installing them whenever after official game patch.

But you just to have to play on Allied side vs AI in DaBigBabes and it'll give you decent game. Japanese side won't work at all. BabesLite is OK on both sides.


So it is recommended to use the beta patch as well as the official patch when installing DaBigbabes?

_____________________________

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Post #: 21
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/17/2011 5:23:54 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aces8
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III
Just returning to AE after years away. Amazied by all the work you guys have put into this. What would be a correct sequence of installs for the Game /

I assume the Matrix Offical patch, then BabesLite A versions and then the 11080q9 Beta ?

Did read your updated site but can I ask if the lites A just have data changes and will use the Game AI and stock map ?

TIA
Rich

You are correct.

Beta patches do not touch scenario data and deal with executable only. So you are fine installing them whenever after official game patch.

But you just to have to play on Allied side vs AI in DaBigBabes and it'll give you decent game. Japanese side won't work at all. BabesLite is OK on both sides.

So it is recommended to use the beta patch as well as the official patch when installing DaBigbabes?

Ok, quick recap for everyone.

Official Patch 1106 is a commercial release and updates the "Game Exe" AND the "STOCK" Scenario Data files. It's necessary to have if you want the STOCK scenarios up-to-date, as well as the "GameExe" up-to-date with the latest Official commercial release.

Beta 'patches' are non-commercial updates to the "Game Exe" only. They are on-going bug fixes, applied over and above Official Patch Exe 1106, and are up to 1108r2 (at last look). Beta 'patches' do NOTHING to ANY Scenario Data files. Beta 'patches' are Unofficial only because they haven't been collected and released by Matrix as a commercial Official Patch, but they are prepared by Henderson Field Designs person(s) authorized access to the Game Executable code by Matrix. So even though they are not commercially Official, they are nevertheless legitimate and approved.

Beta 'patches' include a limited number of "hooks", that have been activated in the executable code, that specially MODDED scenarios can use. These "hooks" are NOT available for STOCK scenarios. These "hooks" will NOT effect STOCK scenarios, only specially MODDED scenarios.

A STOCK scenario is any scenario with a Scen number from 001 to 025. A STOCK scenario may not be modified in any way whatsoever, except by an Official Patch (from Matrix) that includes a Data Update.

1. Install the game;
2. Update/Install latest Official Patch 1106;
... you now have the most up-to-date commercially available WiTP-AE game
3. Download/Install latest Beta;
4. Repeat 3. as often as a Beta comes out;

Every Babes scenario is a specially MODDED scenario. Every Babes scenario requires at least Beta 1108q2 to run at full effect. Other than that;

Babes-A use stock map, and stock AI base.
Babes-B use extended map and stock AI base.

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Home of DaBabes

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Post #: 22
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/23/2011 4:39:30 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 19726
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online 		Seeking a bit of clarification about the extended map + AE stacking limits.

I just went and downloaded the new versions of the various Babes scenarios - that's all cool. I noticed that there is an extended map download on BabesLite-B and BigBabes-B pages.

We are starting up a BigBabes-C PBM. We've followed the link (to Andrew's site) on the "AE Extended Map" page. We are also using stacking limits, and have used the "AE Extended Map Data with Stacking Limits" zip file on the "AE Stack Limits" page (containing the 3 pwhex files).

My only confusion is with their being two versions of the extended map, one housed on DaBabes site and one pointed to (on Andrew's site). I compared the file sizes and they are much different, so I presume they are different maps?

I just want to make sure we have the right pwhex files (AE stacking limits) with the right extended map (Andrew's as pointed to by DaBabes). Based on what I described, are we good or have we mixed in the wrong map panels?


(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 23
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/23/2011 5:16:04 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		The two different map file sets are "functionally" identical.

The link to Andrew's thing is to the full, complete, every single panel, both hex and non-hex, extended map.

However, all that is really necessary to go from Stock to Extended, is 8 map panels (4 hex, 4 non-hex). That is what is in the Babes Map Art.

Andrew's thing is set up to use the JonesSoft mod enabler. Therefore, Andrew's thing must have every file that is replacing every other file. It's very disc space intensive, but there are prompts so people don't get lost. We are presuming that Babes folks are kinda smart, such that they can manually swap 8 Art files back and forth.

So, if you paste the Babes map files into the stock map, it will look and act identical to AB's 'full' download.

Conservation of Energy, Conservation of Disc Space. Conservation of Result.

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Post #: 24
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 11/23/2011 5:30:32 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 19726
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

Ah, OK! We are each using separate installations so the much-appreciated JonesSoft thing isn't necessary for us. Thanks!

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 25
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 12/9/2011 1:49:00 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 2237
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poznan, Poland
Status: offline 		What are the changes between different versions of DaBabes Scen. 28 A, say between version 05 and the current version 09? Is it different AA values, OOB changes, new ships?

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 26
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 12/20/2011 1:56:41 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1406
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Gents -

I am playing Babes Lite Scn26 v13 as the Allies vs Jap AI.

The Question: Do I have to check the Shore Party Tag in the device editor; or does Naval Support include the Shore Party Function (as in stock)?

While I am a hard core Big Babes Loyalist (and have become very comfortable with the changes - and love the complexity and logistics), I wanted to play against the Japanese AI - hence a go with Babes Lite. And - it is so much faster since I don't have to do both sides (but I have learned a lot).

Thank you for your help!

Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 12/20/2011 1:59:04 AM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 12/20/2011 2:47:33 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 19726
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online 		last I recollect John said that Naval Support does include helping loading/unloading as Shore Party does.

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 28
RE: Babes Website Facelift - 12/20/2011 2:55:45 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1406
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

last I recollect John said that Naval Support does include helping loading/unloading as Shore Party does.


witpqs -

That was my recollection also - Thank You Sir!

Mac

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