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RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

 
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RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/10/2012 1:44:09 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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There were still a few things left to do this turn, but the turn needed to end now from the Allied perspective, so everybody took a Pass action to make sure that happened. With an End of Turn Roll of '7', they didn't actually need to Pass, but there was no point in taking the risk.
-----
End of Turn Reports for S/O '41 (Turn #13) will be posted as soon as I have finished them up.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2401
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/10/2012 1:47:06 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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The easiest one to put together is the Weather Report for the 9 impulses of S/O '41 (Turn #13):




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2402
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/10/2012 1:55:38 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
Here are the units destroyed during S/O '41 (Turn #13):




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2403
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/10/2012 6:04:40 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
And here it is, my End of Turn Report for S/O '41:

Partisans
No Partisans

Pre-Build Scrapping
USSR scrapped 2 x INF
Italy scrapped 1 x LND-3
Japan scrapped 2 x CVP-1, 1 x LND-3

Strategic Bombing
USA conducts Strategic Bombing raid on Prague, Roll = 8+1 = 9 = 1 PP Destroyed

Totals: 1 German Production Point Destroyed

Convoys Destroyed
None

Builds:
CW (21): 2 x INF, 1 x PARA, 1 x MECH, 1 x CVP-0, 1 x ATR, 3 x CL(2nd), 1 x Pilot
France (0): Nothing
USA (56): 1 x INF Division, 1 x PARA, 1 x PARA Division, 1 x MAR, 2 x MECH, 1 x ARM Division, 2 x Convoy, 1 x SUB(1st), 2 x CVP-1, 1 x LND-3, 1 x ATR, 4 x CW CA(Repair), 2 x BB(2nd), 2 x Pilot
USSR (12): 2 x INF, 3 x MIL
Germany (32): 1 x INF, 1 x ENG Division, 1 x ARM Division, 1 x FTR-2, 1 x FTR-3, 1 x Pilot, 1 x O-chit
Italy (17): 1 x MIL, 2 x INF, 1 x Convoy, 1 x NAV-3, 1 x LND-3, 1 x Pilot
Japan (22): 2 x TERR, 1 x ENG Division, 1 x Convoy, 1 x CVP-1, 3 x CA(Repair), 1 x Pilot, 1 x Factory

N/D '41 Gearing Limits (above 1):
CW: 4 x Infantry, 2 x Armor, 4 x Ship, 3 x Air, 2 x Pilot
France: None
USA: 5 x Infantry, 4 x Armor, 8 x Ship, 2 x Submarine, 5 x Air, 3 x Pilot
USSR: 6 x Infantry
Germany: 3 x Infantry, 2 x Armor, 3 x Air, 2 x Pilot, 2 x O-chit
Italy: 4 x Infantry, 2 x Ship, 3 x Air, 2 x Pilot
Japan: 4 x Infantry, 5 x Ship, 2 x Air, 2 x Pilot, 2 x Factory

Conquest: & Liberation
Solomon Islands cc by Japan
Trucial Oman cc by Japan
Oman cc by Japan

USSR declines to Surrender to Germany

Factory Destruction:
None

Reinforcements:
CW assigns Pilots to LND and NAV
CW places TERR in Boma, 2 CP in Scapa Flow, NAV in Glasgow, LND in London, 3 CV and BB in Liverpool
CW removes FTR and 3 CVP from map
France places CA in Dakar
USA assigns Pilots to 2 FTR and 1 CVP
USA places ASW Carrier and CVP in Norfolk, 2 INF, 2 FTR, TRS and AMPH in New York, 2 BB in San Diego, INF, AT, TRS and AMPH in Philadelphia, INF and CAV in Baltimore
USSR places MIL in Tashkent, Sverdlovsk and Rostov, INF in Samarkand, Ufa and Magnitogorsk, HQ-A Zhukov and GARR in Perm
Germany assigns Pilots to 3 FTR
Germany places FTR in Nuremberg, Magdeburg, Dusseldorf, INF Divisions in Kiel and Aachen, SS INF in Moscow, Vasslov in Kiev
Italy places MIL in Teheran, INF in Genoa
Japan assigns Pilots to FTR, 2 CVP, NAV
Japan places GARR in Manila, Warlord in Kunming, TERR in Manila and Rangoon, 2 CV, BB, CA, 2 CVP, FTR and INF in Tokyo, NAV and CP in Fukuoka, CP in Bangkok

Trade Agreements:
Nothing new

Victory Totals
Axis: 43
Allies: 23 (24-1 for aligning both Brazil & Mexico)

Initiative:
Allies win the Initiative 7-1
Allies choose to move first in N/D '41

Turn 14 N/D '41

Allies win the Initiative 7-1
Allies choose to move first in N/D '41
+1 Allied Initiative

Impulse: 1
Weather: 3
(Rain in the Arctic, Fine everywhere else)
-----
The Allies easily won the initiative, and they didn't even have to use a re-roll to do it. Looking forward to a short winter, eager to get the troops out of France before they are trampled in the snow, the Allies chose to move first in N/D '41. The +1 weather roll modifier was like a blessing to the Allies, certain to push the weather into the same horrible blizzards that began last year's first full winter turn. Except that it didn't. The modifier was still a blessing, though. If it hadn't been added to the weather roll, November would be seeing Fine weather everywhere to start things off, and that's something the Soviets just can't afford in the Arctic. So, it may not be a short winter, after all. In fact, it is impossible now for the turn to last fewer than 5 impulses (last year there were only 4).

Despite the current weather, the long summer is thankfully over. It was miserable for the Allies. Russia is on its last breath, Turkey is about to go Axis, and India has Japanese on its shores. With the Italians roaming the central Asian desert, it's likely that sometime early in 1942 all three Axis major powers will meet up somewhere near Karaganda for a celebratory plate of sushi, bratwurst, and fettucini. The Allies did make a successful invasion of France, but it came too late to be very useful to Mother Russia.

The Americans are in the war for real now, though. Their reinforcements each turn will be extremely numerous, and the first batch of fully trained troops is now ready to be shipped overseas, to the UK or to Morocco. The choice depends mostly on the logistics of the evacuation of France, as well as on the strength of the Italian fleet. The Commonwealth pulled a lot of CVP units off the map this turn, all of them Class-1 aircraft. At the start of 1942, several good (or better) CVP in the Reserve Pool will finally fit on the CW carriers, so I wanted the Pilots to be able to fly them as soon as possible. That means the clearing of Cape St. Vincent will have to wait until January, but it should be possible then, if not a certainty. Until that happens, the Americans are going to continue sending the troops to the UK and N. Ireland. That way they can form actual battle-ready stacks to be deployed where they are needed, rather than just sending whatever happens to be available. At the beginning of March, 1942, the first true blitz units come off the assembly line, and an actual campaign can begin.

In the meantime, it's all about preparation, protecting the convoys, and praying for short turns.
-----
The Axis has to love the fact that winter decided not to arrive just yet. With clear skies almost everywhere and the Turks entering the war the first Axis impulse, Japan can mount a few more invasions in India (maybe), the Italians can push across the desert to Tashkent with an "overseas" supply line running through the Caspian Sea, into Persia, and back to Rome by rail (unless the Soviets send a LND to fly Naval Air in it), and the Germans can try to clear out the remaining survivors in and around Tiflis and Baku. They'll also probably take another shot at Rostov and might even make a grab for Sevastapol, though they don't really need to if Rostov is taken. In the Leningrad region, HQ-A Manstein is waiting for the right moment to strike, and with an O-chit now on the Production Spiral, that could be anytime from now until March. If it can be done without the O-chit, so much the better.

The only really unpleasant thing that Germany faces right now is Koniev in the Urals, now joined by Zhukov and some additional troops. Fortunately for the Germans, there are 3 rail lines that lead to Sverdlovsk and beyond, and Russia will have a difficult time covering them all. Except for the one LND that was shot down early last turn, the Soviets did manage to survive S/O '41 with all of their remaining air forces intact. These will likely rebase to the Urals as quickly as possible. The Turks will set up defensively, and Germany will do its best to make sure the Soviet armor in the Caucasus stays there -- until the units disband with the fall of Russia.

For the time being, the Western European threat seems to be under control. Alexander is still in Denmark, and might be able to push into a 2nd hex, but the addition of 3 more top-of-the-line German FTRs probably means he won't. Spain and Portugal could use some reinforcements, but those can be tranferred over the next few turns. With Russia at its knees, the Rumanian and Yugoslavian troops will probably vacate France and head back to the east as garrisons.

The Japanese troops are now stretched nearly to their limits, and only the lack of sufficient Allied sea and air power prevents them from taking a more defensive stance in the Far East. Even so, they only have a year or so of clear superiority remaining. If they can't take India in the next year, it's time to consolidate their holdings and return troops to the perimeter, which is now held by a single unit in most of the key ports and victory cities. The Japanese are going to want 2 units and a division in each by early 1943, if they can manage it.

Construction began on a new factory for the Japanese this turn, mostly because Germany and Italy both needed to build units (and the German O-chit). They couldn't afford to set up new factories yet. If/when they can, they will, and the Trans-Siberian Railway will be put to good use, but that time just hasn't arrived yet.
-----
So, as the year 1941 winds down, here's the world looks at the start of November:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2404
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/10/2012 6:09:37 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
I'll try to get some images up a little later, but for now it is lunchtime and I am very hungry.
-----
Something I forgot to put into the End of Turn Report is the reason the Soviets placed an INF in Samarkand. It's simple, really. In order to get to Tashkent, the Italians are going to need the rail line for supply. With a unit in Samarkand, they have 2 choices: clear out Samarkand first, or leave 2 units behind to let supply travel through the enemy ZOC on the rails. Neither option is very good, since the city is protected by a river. I'll show this later in one of the screenshots.

Okay, lunch time.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2405
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/10/2012 6:43:10 PM   
Orm


Posts: 6922
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
I feel that the fighter production for the western allies are to low. I am sure you have reasons for this but the western allies should at least outproduce Germany in fighters.

_____________________________

"It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever," he said.
"Have you thought of going into teaching?"

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2406
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/10/2012 7:03:40 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 19317
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I'll try to get some images up a little later, but for now it is lunchtime and I am very hungry.
-----
Something I forgot to put into the End of Turn Report is the reason the Soviets placed an INF in Samarkand. It's simple, really. In order to get to Tashkent, the Italians are going to need the rail line for supply. With a unit in Samarkand, they have 2 choices: clear out Samarkand first, or leave 2 units behind to let supply travel through the enemy ZOC on the rails. Neither option is very good, since the city is protected by a river. I'll show this later in one of the screenshots.

Okay, lunch time.

Even assuming that Turkey comes into the war so the Italians can get rail supply directly from Persia back to Italy, they will need a string of HQ's every 4 hexes (or less) to advance into Turkmenistan. An HQ SW of Ashqabad can trace to Shalrud but then the desert intervenes and supply paths get shorter. They will need 3 HQ's to be in supply to attack Samarkand from 2 hexes. If they then advance into Samarkand, they will be out of supply. I don't see how they go rambling about any further. The railroads in Turkmenistan will not be usable for supply by the Italians since they do not connect to a primary supply source.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2407
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 8:37:51 AM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I'll try to get some images up a little later, but for now it is lunchtime and I am very hungry.
-----
Something I forgot to put into the End of Turn Report is the reason the Soviets placed an INF in Samarkand. It's simple, really. In order to get to Tashkent, the Italians are going to need the rail line for supply. With a unit in Samarkand, they have 2 choices: clear out Samarkand first, or leave 2 units behind to let supply travel through the enemy ZOC on the rails. Neither option is very good, since the city is protected by a river. I'll show this later in one of the screenshots.

Okay, lunch time.

Even assuming that Turkey comes into the war so the Italians can get rail supply directly from Persia back to Italy, they will need a string of HQ's every 4 hexes (or less) to advance into Turkmenistan. An HQ SW of Ashqabad can trace to Shalrud but then the desert intervenes and supply paths get shorter. They will need 3 HQ's to be in supply to attack Samarkand from 2 hexes. If they then advance into Samarkand, they will be out of supply. I don't see how they go rambling about any further. The railroads in Turkmenistan will not be usable for supply by the Italians since they do not connect to a primary supply source.




I don't understand what you mean. Italy controls Krasnovodsk and every hex on the Trans-Caspian up to (and including) the clear hex northwest of the only mountain hex in western Turkmenistan. An HQ in the mountain hex 1 hex east and 2 hexes northeast of Bandar Shah can get supply from either rail line. Once he "switches" from the Persian line to the Trans-Caspian, he is a secondary source that traces through Krasnovodsk into the Caspian, to Bandar Shah -- and all the way back to Rome, doesn't he?

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 2408
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 8:46:48 AM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I feel that the fighter production for the western allies are to low. I am sure you have reasons for this but the western allies should at least outproduce Germany in fighters.

The reason that FTR production is so low (non-existent) for the Allies is that the USA has almost built out its FTR pools (3 left) and the CW has mediocre FTR units remaining in its pools. I want to wait until next turn, so that I can scrap some units and get the better fighters. I'll risk building 1 or 2 each at the end of this turn, but for gearing purposes, I wanted to leave some available while I got more important (and more time-consuming) air units started.
-----
Edit: The USA will get another 56 BP at the end of this turn, then 68 BP for the next 6 turns after that, and then 79 BP for the next 6 turns. If I don't pace myself in some classes, I'm going to end up building out a lot of pools too early in the year and I'll have trouble with gearing limits when the next year starts up. Once I hit 68 BP in J/F '42, I'll probably start building an O-chit every other turn, and then probably every turn in '43 or '44.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 2/11/2012 8:52:06 AM >


_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 2409
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 9:53:21 AM   
Orm


Posts: 6922
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Buiding out fighters early each year sounds good. Then you can use the rest of the year building other aircraft types. I usually use CVP to help with end of the year gearing. In worst case I advance build some aircraft.

_____________________________

"It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever," he said.
"Have you thought of going into teaching?"

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2410
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 4:52:04 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 19317
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I'll try to get some images up a little later, but for now it is lunchtime and I am very hungry.
-----
Something I forgot to put into the End of Turn Report is the reason the Soviets placed an INF in Samarkand. It's simple, really. In order to get to Tashkent, the Italians are going to need the rail line for supply. With a unit in Samarkand, they have 2 choices: clear out Samarkand first, or leave 2 units behind to let supply travel through the enemy ZOC on the rails. Neither option is very good, since the city is protected by a river. I'll show this later in one of the screenshots.

Okay, lunch time.

Even assuming that Turkey comes into the war so the Italians can get rail supply directly from Persia back to Italy, they will need a string of HQ's every 4 hexes (or less) to advance into Turkmenistan. An HQ SW of Ashqabad can trace to Shalrud but then the desert intervenes and supply paths get shorter. They will need 3 HQ's to be in supply to attack Samarkand from 2 hexes. If they then advance into Samarkand, they will be out of supply. I don't see how they go rambling about any further. The railroads in Turkmenistan will not be usable for supply by the Italians since they do not connect to a primary supply source.




I don't understand what you mean. Italy controls Krasnovodsk and every hex on the Trans-Caspian up to (and including) the clear hex northwest of the only mountain hex in western Turkmenistan. An HQ in the mountain hex 1 hex east and 2 hexes northeast of Bandar Shah can get supply from either rail line. Once he "switches" from the Persian line to the Trans-Caspian, he is a secondary source that traces through Krasnovodsk into the Caspian, to Bandar Shah -- and all the way back to Rome, doesn't he?

The only supply path that can use rail lines for 'free' is from the 1 secondary supply source that traces to a primary supply source. RAW uses the word 'secondary' ambiguously, which is partially why the supply rule is so difficult to understand. In the Players Manual I introduce the word phrase "tertiary supply source" to make the rule easier to understand. Note that I am not changing how the rule functions; I am simply making it easier to explain.

Tertiary supply source trace to either the 1 secondary supply source on the path or to another tertiary which is in supply. There can be a limitless number of tertiary supply sources, just so long as they all trace to a secondary, which in turn traces to a primary.

All the tertiary supply paths are limited to 4 Basic Path Hexes (BPH).

===

If the Italians can use the Caspian Sea, then, yes, they can link the two rail lines at a cost of 1 BPH. That will "use up" the 1 overseas link permitted in a path, so they will not be able to trace through the Med. Depending on optional rules, they will either have to have a convoy/transport in the Caspian Sea (which is impossible unless they 'capture' one of the Russian convoys) or else have eliminated the USSR's control of the sea area.

Remember that the path is traced from the unit to the supply source and likewise from supply source to supply source all the way back to the primary. Each of those links can have no more than 4 BPH, there can be only 1 overseas link (at a cost of 1 BPH), and only the 2ndary to primary can use rail lines.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2411
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 6:39:06 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I'll try to get some images up a little later, but for now it is lunchtime and I am very hungry.
-----
Something I forgot to put into the End of Turn Report is the reason the Soviets placed an INF in Samarkand. It's simple, really. In order to get to Tashkent, the Italians are going to need the rail line for supply. With a unit in Samarkand, they have 2 choices: clear out Samarkand first, or leave 2 units behind to let supply travel through the enemy ZOC on the rails. Neither option is very good, since the city is protected by a river. I'll show this later in one of the screenshots.

Okay, lunch time.

Even assuming that Turkey comes into the war so the Italians can get rail supply directly from Persia back to Italy, they will need a string of HQ's every 4 hexes (or less) to advance into Turkmenistan. An HQ SW of Ashqabad can trace to Shalrud but then the desert intervenes and supply paths get shorter. They will need 3 HQ's to be in supply to attack Samarkand from 2 hexes. If they then advance into Samarkand, they will be out of supply. I don't see how they go rambling about any further. The railroads in Turkmenistan will not be usable for supply by the Italians since they do not connect to a primary supply source.




I don't understand what you mean. Italy controls Krasnovodsk and every hex on the Trans-Caspian up to (and including) the clear hex northwest of the only mountain hex in western Turkmenistan. An HQ in the mountain hex 1 hex east and 2 hexes northeast of Bandar Shah can get supply from either rail line. Once he "switches" from the Persian line to the Trans-Caspian, he is a secondary source that traces through Krasnovodsk into the Caspian, to Bandar Shah -- and all the way back to Rome, doesn't he?

The only supply path that can use rail lines for 'free' is from the 1 secondary supply source that traces to a primary supply source. RAW uses the word 'secondary' ambiguously, which is partially why the supply rule is so difficult to understand. In the Players Manual I introduce the word phrase "tertiary supply source" to make the rule easier to understand. Note that I am not changing how the rule functions; I am simply making it easier to explain.

Tertiary supply source trace to either the 1 secondary supply source on the path or to another tertiary which is in supply. There can be a limitless number of tertiary supply sources, just so long as they all trace to a secondary, which in turn traces to a primary.

All the tertiary supply paths are limited to 4 Basic Path Hexes (BPH).

===

If the Italians can use the Caspian Sea, then, yes, they can link the two rail lines at a cost of 1 BPH. That will "use up" the 1 overseas link permitted in a path, so they will not be able to trace through the Med. Depending on optional rules, they will either have to have a convoy/transport in the Caspian Sea (which is impossible unless they 'capture' one of the Russian convoys) or else have eliminated the USSR's control of the sea area.

Remember that the path is traced from the unit to the supply source and likewise from supply source to supply source all the way back to the primary. Each of those links can have no more than 4 BPH, there can be only 1 overseas link (at a cost of 1 BPH), and only the 2ndary to primary can use rail lines.

Actually, since Italy liberated Persia, they can get one of their freshly built convoys into the Caspian Sea.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 2/11/2012 6:40:34 PM >


_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 2412
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 7:08:02 PM   
Orm


Posts: 6922
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Italy will soon be able to trace primary supply over Caspian Sea since a railroad will soon open back to Italy. Either through Turkey or through USSR.

_____________________________

"It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever," he said.
"Have you thought of going into teaching?"

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2413
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 9:05:01 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 19317
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I'll try to get some images up a little later, but for now it is lunchtime and I am very hungry.
-----
Something I forgot to put into the End of Turn Report is the reason the Soviets placed an INF in Samarkand. It's simple, really. In order to get to Tashkent, the Italians are going to need the rail line for supply. With a unit in Samarkand, they have 2 choices: clear out Samarkand first, or leave 2 units behind to let supply travel through the enemy ZOC on the rails. Neither option is very good, since the city is protected by a river. I'll show this later in one of the screenshots.

Okay, lunch time.

Even assuming that Turkey comes into the war so the Italians can get rail supply directly from Persia back to Italy, they will need a string of HQ's every 4 hexes (or less) to advance into Turkmenistan. An HQ SW of Ashqabad can trace to Shalrud but then the desert intervenes and supply paths get shorter. They will need 3 HQ's to be in supply to attack Samarkand from 2 hexes. If they then advance into Samarkand, they will be out of supply. I don't see how they go rambling about any further. The railroads in Turkmenistan will not be usable for supply by the Italians since they do not connect to a primary supply source.




I don't understand what you mean. Italy controls Krasnovodsk and every hex on the Trans-Caspian up to (and including) the clear hex northwest of the only mountain hex in western Turkmenistan. An HQ in the mountain hex 1 hex east and 2 hexes northeast of Bandar Shah can get supply from either rail line. Once he "switches" from the Persian line to the Trans-Caspian, he is a secondary source that traces through Krasnovodsk into the Caspian, to Bandar Shah -- and all the way back to Rome, doesn't he?

The only supply path that can use rail lines for 'free' is from the 1 secondary supply source that traces to a primary supply source. RAW uses the word 'secondary' ambiguously, which is partially why the supply rule is so difficult to understand. In the Players Manual I introduce the word phrase "tertiary supply source" to make the rule easier to understand. Note that I am not changing how the rule functions; I am simply making it easier to explain.

Tertiary supply source trace to either the 1 secondary supply source on the path or to another tertiary which is in supply. There can be a limitless number of tertiary supply sources, just so long as they all trace to a secondary, which in turn traces to a primary.

All the tertiary supply paths are limited to 4 Basic Path Hexes (BPH).

===

If the Italians can use the Caspian Sea, then, yes, they can link the two rail lines at a cost of 1 BPH. That will "use up" the 1 overseas link permitted in a path, so they will not be able to trace through the Med. Depending on optional rules, they will either have to have a convoy/transport in the Caspian Sea (which is impossible unless they 'capture' one of the Russian convoys) or else have eliminated the USSR's control of the sea area.

Remember that the path is traced from the unit to the supply source and likewise from supply source to supply source all the way back to the primary. Each of those links can have no more than 4 BPH, there can be only 1 overseas link (at a cost of 1 BPH), and only the 2ndary to primary can use rail lines.

Actually, since Italy liberated Persia, they can get one of their freshly built convoys into the Caspian Sea.

Ah, no. Convoy reinforcements belong to the controlling major power and arrive in the major power's home country.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 2414
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 10:05:42 PM   
Taxman66


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Steve, I'm not sure if this is a ghost of WiF past, but I recall there is (was?) a rule allowing a MP to build 1 cp (per?) in an aligned minor's home country.

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Post #: 2415
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/11/2012 10:39:38 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 3860
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Steve, I'm not sure if this is a ghost of WiF past, but I recall there is (was?) a rule allowing a MP to build 1 cp (per?) in an aligned minor's home country.


RAW:

Put your on-map naval reinforcements into a port you control in the
unit’s home country. However, you can place 1 convoy point a turn in
either a Commonwealth home country other than the United Kingdom
or an aligned (not conquered) minor country [Note: this is only
possible if you are playing with Ships in Flames].

So Italy can put 1 CP in Persia.

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 2416
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 3:40:12 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Steve, I'm not sure if this is a ghost of WiF past, but I recall there is (was?) a rule allowing a MP to build 1 cp (per?) in an aligned minor's home country.


RAW:

Put your on-map naval reinforcements into a port you control in the
unit’s home country. However, you can place 1 convoy point a turn in
either a Commonwealth home country other than the United Kingdom
or an aligned (not conquered) minor country [Note: this is only
possible if you are playing with Ships in Flames].

So Italy can put 1 CP in Persia.

Yup. And I've been building 1 per turn for the last 2 turns. I have 1 more turn to go to be sure I can trace supply through the Caspian and collect both Oil on the Persian Gulf.
-----
Edit: Sorry about the delay in continuing the game, by the way. I decided to take most of the weekend off.

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(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 2417
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 4:41:51 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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I realized I forgot to post images of the situation around the world, so let's start with the Russian forces as they look at the beginning of November, 1941 (Turn #14).
-----
1 of 7

The Leningrad Defense:




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2418
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 4:41:55 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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2 of 7

Sevastopol and Rostov:




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2419
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 4:41:58 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
3 of 7

The North Turkish Border:




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2420
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 4:42:02 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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4 of 7

The South Turkish Border:




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2421
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 4:42:05 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
5 of 7

The Urals:




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2422
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 4:42:09 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
6 of 7

The Trans-Caspian Railway:




Attachment (1)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
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Post #: 2423
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 4:42:13 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
7 of 7

Siberia:




Attachment (1)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
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Post #: 2424
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 4:46:04 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
I was going to start on the CW fronts, but it is taking a while and I am nearing lunchtime again. For the moment, here's Burma, with India and E. Africa coming up next. That will probably be in a few hours or so.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
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Post #: 2425
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 6:12:00 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3403
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Steve, I'm not sure if this is a ghost of WiF past, but I recall there is (was?) a rule allowing a MP to build 1 cp (per?) in an aligned minor's home country.


RAW:

Put your on-map naval reinforcements into a port you control in the
unit’s home country. However, you can place 1 convoy point a turn in
either a Commonwealth home country other than the United Kingdom
or an aligned (not conquered) minor country [Note: this is only
possible if you are playing with Ships in Flames].

So Italy can put 1 CP in Persia.

Yup. And I've been building 1 per turn for the last 2 turns. I have 1 more turn to go to be sure I can trace supply through the Caspian and collect both Oil on the Persian Gulf.
-----
Edit: Sorry about the delay in continuing the game, by the way. I decided to take most of the weekend off.


Well, English is not my native language but I read the rule about the one convoy placement per turn as referring to a Commonwealth aligned minor country only.


(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2426
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 7:02:03 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 19317
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Steve, I'm not sure if this is a ghost of WiF past, but I recall there is (was?) a rule allowing a MP to build 1 cp (per?) in an aligned minor's home country.


RAW:

Put your on-map naval reinforcements into a port you control in the
unit’s home country. However, you can place 1 convoy point a turn in
either a Commonwealth home country other than the United Kingdom
or an aligned (not conquered) minor country [Note: this is only
possible if you are playing with Ships in Flames].

So Italy can put 1 CP in Persia.

Yup. And I've been building 1 per turn for the last 2 turns. I have 1 more turn to go to be sure I can trace supply through the Caspian and collect both Oil on the Persian Gulf.
-----
Edit: Sorry about the delay in continuing the game, by the way. I decided to take most of the weekend off.


Well, English is not my native language but I read the rule about the one convoy placement per turn as referring to a Commonwealth aligned minor country only.



I had actually read through the code for doing this (which works correctly to the best of my knowledge), but forgotten that the rule existed. By the way, Ships in Flames is integral to MWIF; so this isn't an optional rule.

A better wording would be:
... you can place 1 convoy point a turn in either an aligned (not conquered) minor country
or a Commonwealth home country other than the United Kingdom. [Note: this is only
possible if you are playing with Ships in Flames].


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to lomyrin)
Post #: 2427
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/12/2012 10:48:53 PM   
dragon_troop

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 2/12/2012
Status: offline
Any railroad artillery in the pipeline? That 6 bombardment factor might come in handy for Leningrad or Rostov.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 2428
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/13/2012 12:11:29 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 1846
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
well of course it is worthwhile to attack Russia from as many directions as the other Allies will let you. my point was that Guderian, Germany's best HQ in a 1941 Barbarossa, and three more panzer corps could have accomplished far more on the steppes of the Ukraine than in the mountains of Persia. A force like that is the reason I suggest the Russians operate with two lines, infantry in front, and their armor reserve in back with it's own independent air cover that can actually stop a major breakout by the fast HQ-A's, Rommel and Guderian, as long as they don't have time to bring up their own air cover. they can't take on double stacked Russian tanks very well without it. von Bock and 4 good German INF corps could have achieved the same results in Perisa in this game. Germany's best play is to take some risks and try to overrun/block factories before they can rail out, something they did not achieve in this particular game, near as I can tell. Normally that would hurt them later, but the Russians failed to save any oil to make the factories even all that important anyway.




in that battle last turn with the Soviet ARM, why were the Germans able to take their ART unit as a loss during a blitz table battle?

(in reply to dragon_troop)
Post #: 2429
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 2/13/2012 6:51:44 AM   
Orm


Posts: 6922
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragon_troop

Any railroad artillery in the pipeline? That 6 bombardment factor might come in handy for Leningrad or Rostov.

Welcome to the forum.

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"Have you thought of going into teaching?"

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Post #: 2430
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