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Soviet "super artillery"

 
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Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 12:24:34 AM   
Deputy


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I complained a while back about the spectacular abilities of Soviet artillery on tanks. Well now I have encountered a new twist. It seems Soviet artillery is even more deadly than Soviet tanks or anti-tank guns when it comes to destroying German tanks. ANY German tanks. And I
am not talking direct fire. I am talking about INDIRECT, UNSPOTTED fire. And not just howitzers and rockets, but even the lowly 82mm mortar is a tank killer. I could live with this ridiculousness, but the opposite is NOT true forGerman artillery. You can bombard the heck out of one hex containing a stack of T-34 tanks with 105mm, 150mm and rockets, and it they just sit there taking it all with NO effect. What the heck, is the German artillery loaded with, flour or what? Methinks in an effort to "balance" play, the programmers gave the Soviet artillery a major boost much higher than what the German artillery has in one of the post-1.02 patches. So much for realism.

< Message edited by Deputy -- 11/4/2011 12:25:40 AM >


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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 2:39:18 AM   
Jason Petho


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Don't leave your tanks in the same position where they can be targeted by artillery?

Jason Petho


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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 4:51:48 AM   
Deputy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

Don't leave your tanks in the same position where they can be targeted by artillery?

Jason Petho



It's not even that. They aren't being targeted. I know enough to move them after they are spotted. These are unspotted impacts that are causing major damage. And an 82MM mortar knocking out tanks??? Ridicululous. And it still doesn't explain why Soviet tanks seem to be immune to ALL artillery impacts while German tanks regularly get knocked out. I wouldn't mind too much the always lethal Soviet artillery fire if the same situation was applied to German artillery fire on Soviet tanks. Only way German artillery has any effect on the Soviets is at close range and direct fire.

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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 4:59:28 AM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy
It's not even that. They aren't being targeted. I know enough to move them after they are spotted. These are unspotted impacts that are causing major damage. And an 82MM mortar knocking out tanks??? Ridicululous. And it still doesn't explain why Soviet tanks seem to be immune to ALL artillery impacts while German tanks regularly get knocked out. I wouldn't mind too much the always lethal Soviet artillery fire if the same situation was applied to German artillery fire on Soviet tanks. Only way German artillery has any effect on the Soviets is at close range and direct fire.


Not sure, really. I haven't seen the same issue when I play a DCG.

Which one are you playing? Are you giving it any advantage?

Jason Petho


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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 11:12:28 AM   
Deputy


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It happens in all the Dynamic Campaigns. And I have the advantage slider set all the way on the German side. Like I said...I wouldn't care if the increased effectiveness of the artillery applied to both German and Soviet artillery. But it only applies to Soviet. That's why I have the slider all the way on the German side, to try and equalize the situation. But it doesn't really help. I did change the replacement levels in the campaign of the Germans to 6 for every week. That seems to be the max allowed. I get the replacements pretty well, but they also get eliminated pretty regularly. It's one thing to get hammered because I didn't move a spotted unit, that's my fault. But something else to get killed by a artillery that hasn't got the unit spotted. I wish there was some way to turn down the effectiveness of Soviet artillery or turn up the effectiveness of German arty.

< Message edited by Deputy -- 11/4/2011 11:13:04 AM >


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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 3:24:52 PM   
Deputy


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The campaign I am playing is Storm on the Reich. Pretty weird to have 82 mm mortars knock out so many King Tiger tanks when the don't even have a spotter.

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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 7:35:21 PM   
Borst50

 

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2 years ago i complained about the same thing. It seems that in DCG's AI artillery is overly leathal to your tanks, while the players artillery doest do squat. Its part of the game and nothing seems to work. To give you an example.....Road to Germany DCG on west front.....a single us 60mm mortar unit destroyed a platoon of PzVIb's on opportunity fire!!!!! Now tell me that isnt unrealistic. This is a regular occurance in DCG's for some reason.

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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 8:33:00 PM   
Deputy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Borst50

2 years ago i complained about the same thing. It seems that in DCG's AI artillery is overly leathal to your tanks, while the players artillery doest do squat. Its part of the game and nothing seems to work. To give you an example.....Road to Germany DCG on west front.....a single us 60mm mortar unit destroyed a platoon of PzVIb's on opportunity fire!!!!! Now tell me that isnt unrealistic. This is a regular occurance in DCG's for some reason.


Borst: Thanks for confirming what has also happened to me. Glad it's not just me that notices this. Yep, even the 60mm mortar, which is little more than a launched hand grenade, is devestating on tanks. I used a 60mm mortar in Vietnam. It's major plus is it's light weight and portable.
We didn't even use aiming stakes or optics to lay them in. We just plopped it down on the ground and started working it with "Kentucky windage". The Viet Cong didn't even bother with a baseplate when they used them. They just strapped the tube to their leg and fired and ran. Mortars are made mainly for anti-troop fire or for laying smoke. NO mortarman would even think of sending fire against a tank. The chances of even disabling a tank are so slim as to be negligible.

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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 8:58:30 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Borst50

2 years ago i complained about the same thing. It seems that in DCG's AI artillery is overly leathal to your tanks, while the players artillery doest do squat. Its part of the game and nothing seems to work. To give you an example.....Road to Germany DCG on west front.....a single us 60mm mortar unit destroyed a platoon of PzVIb's on opportunity fire!!!!! Now tell me that isnt unrealistic. This is a regular occurance in DCG's for some reason.


I believe we agreed at the time of this discussion to adjust the artillery type so small tubes (ie, mortars) wouldn't cause these hits. The main artillery would stay the same.

That will be the case in the 1.05 UPDATE.

Jason Petho


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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/4/2011 9:15:24 PM   
Deputy


Posts: 446
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From: Silver City, NM USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

quote:

ORIGINAL: Borst50

2 years ago i complained about the same thing. It seems that in DCG's AI artillery is overly leathal to your tanks, while the players artillery doest do squat. Its part of the game and nothing seems to work. To give you an example.....Road to Germany DCG on west front.....a single us 60mm mortar unit destroyed a platoon of PzVIb's on opportunity fire!!!!! Now tell me that isnt unrealistic. This is a regular occurance in DCG's for some reason.


I believe we agreed at the time of this discussion to adjust the artillery type so small tubes (ie, mortars) wouldn't cause these hits. The main artillery would stay the same.

That will be the case in the 1.05 UPDATE.

Jason Petho



Well that's a good start and thank you Jason. It would also be nice to NOT see unspotted fire be so deadly against tanks. Or at least even things out so the German arty is as deadly as the Soviet arty. Right now Soviet arty is like having a bunch of super-effective anti-tank guns. If you are gonna leave it that way, at least give the same advantage to the Germans.

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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/7/2011 2:57:23 AM   
cptcurt

 

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maybe its that way because dynamic campaigns work really to our advantage. maybe it balances it somewhat.

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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/7/2011 4:32:03 AM   
Deputy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cptcurt

maybe its that way because dynamic campaigns work really to our advantage. maybe it balances it somewhat.



I don't see that at all. Dynamic campaigns are heavily weighted to the AI in it's current form. Just try targeting enemy units that have been sitting in one place a few turns with your arty. Watch how they all scatter to different hexes in the AI's turn. Like he can see everything YOU are doing with your arty. I don't want or need any artificial balance for the AI in this game. It should be equal abilities for AI and humans.

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Squad Battles
John Tiller's Campaign Series: Abandonware and no longer supported. Whata shame.

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RE: Soviet "super artillery" - 11/25/2011 2:38:24 PM   
pawelj

 

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I played "Dead End on the Road to Prokhorovka" against a human opponent and my German Artillery was pretty leathal against stacked Soviet tanks.
On the other hand Soviets managed to get my Tiger with a indirect shot once but it was a Katusha salvo. Never played DC, so can't comment. Just my 2c.

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