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RE: gpw

 
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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 5:59:24 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 1622
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
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Currently you can make factories that only produce 1 itemtype. Of course you can make an itemtype that only contains 1 item. The only downside to that is that it will show up as a seperate menu in the build production sceen.

So it is definately doable to make these kinds of factories, but it would be more fiddly in the menu for selecting items if they are to be able to be produced in cities.

(in reply to Kraftwerk)
Post #: 31
RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 6:13:33 PM   
Kraftwerk

 

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Aww

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 32
RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 7:39:25 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 2946
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

lol

Is there a way to make a seperate terrian type that would be cheaper to build rails on, that you could paint under the current rail system, so that "converting" rail is cheaper than building entirely new european rail?




Hrm i'm not sure. I was poking vic to perhaps allow engineers to build over top of existing roads with a differnet road type to replace them. But until then this is the best way i could think of. It's a little different than the way grymme did his version for FITE.

I wanted the price to be more so that the germans really have to work at keeping their rail net moving forward. But not so easy that it would not require a sacrifice. If it's too easy then there is no point to even have different rail.

The way it was now i tested that if you push too much for a couple turns without getting your rail net closer you'll be over 100AP and at a 25% supply penalty pretty quickly. I think it's going to open up a lot of options for play.

Unlike WITE i want logistics to really matter for the germans.

There are a few ways i think germans will handle it (but i'd love to see AAR's of the gpw scen):
* Invest a lot of production into extra engineers. Pros you can keep more of your rail net moving forward. Con you're building engineers instead of replacements for front line troops.
* Focus your engineers near your panzer armies to make sure the tanks get supply. Leave the infantry to clean up low supply areas where you don't expect major resistance.

Also we're made rivers matter for big rivers you need a bridge to cross in most cases. We've also made FOW alot stronger so you will have to use the new recon planes to really get a good view of what's going on.



Since you bring up WITE, there are a few reasons why I don't like what I see in that game and you've hit one, one of the others is the lack of incentive for the Soviets to hold ground and lack of any sort of achievable victory conditions for the German.

Any thoughts on including some sort of mechanic to GPW to address these ?





Well the one basic event in GPW now is that when you old cities you get 1 PP per city per turn. In the old game i played with a few testers it seemed to be that the germans were pretty good at smashing the russians. Also the germans get to build 50% on captured russian facilities. Also the russians can't evac them.

And i added oil locations to the map that give the units fuel. I know people might argue up and down the germans never would have seen a drop of that oil the games about having fun. :)

I suppose if enough people complained enough i could make a scen varient that disabled oil from being captured.

If you have any ideas on how to help get soviets to fight up front i'm all ears?

After figuring out how to simulate rail road conversions i feel like nothing is impossible with ATG. :>




Well one idea tossed around on those forum discussions was to tally VP's every turn and have some sort of progressive total for each side to work towards. Obviously, territory and combat losses would be the most likely variables and each side should have some total metric to reach on territory and avoid on losses. I would imagine these metrics could be changed each year of the war or periodically to reflect historical events.

Sounds like a tall order for sure.




_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 33
RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 8:07:23 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Joined: 12/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

It could be MORE in depth if you wanted. Nothing ATG cant do that WITE can. Perhaps factory evacuation cant be done, but ive always thought that was silly in WITE, shoulda happened automatically when towns are captured, instead of the soviet player being able to Robinovich and clear his entire factory base to siberia and ignore moving troops forward.

What atg does is allows the germans and the soviets to pick their production and upgrades, where WITE pigeon holes you.

Itd be tough, but many specific unit types could be researched and added, slightly tweaked for balancing. I think certain monolithic pieces of equipment should make an appearance. The vaunted Ju87 stuka, and its various versions should be represented, as should the Tiger, KV series, T-34, Pz38t, He-111, IL-2, La-7n, and Me262/Ta-152.

These weapon systems went above and beyond the call of duty, and were much more effective than thier counterparts world wide.

Also since you have production and research, some wastes of your production and research should be available too. Nuclear research, synthetic oil research, super, super heavy tanks, .... germany should of course be able to upgrade the kriegsmarine even though thats pointless. Stuff to distract the german player.


Though to be fair, the one thing people leave out of the Russian - German war, is the naval action in the black sea. Though the scale makes it hard to replicate, since it was basically soviets in fishing boats playing pirate, and german patrol craft and submarines...but if you ask me it was the most interesting naval struggle during the war.


You could do factory evacuation if you wanted but i like the idea that the germans get something for their push inland. But yea you could just have an event that tripped on change of ownership like ernie said.

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to Kraftwerk)
Post #: 34
RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 8:09:23 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 12/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Now thats a winner solution right there. Considering the mass exodus of people from white russia, there werent many people left that the germans could prod in the back to get to work for them. Some sort of downgrade of production upon capture will be necessary anyways. If you could make a factory pop up east of Gorky somewhere when that happens all the better.

It also helps the axis player which is insanely out matched if the scenario keeps historical context, as pockets can hurt a bit more. A pocket around production centers is going to doom whats produced there until its finally reduced and the event fires.

Nothing more irritating to me in my WITE games, than the soviet player properly defending leningrad, never moving the KV factories, and somehow, by magic flying carpets, KV-13s are filling up Guards tank corps in AGS, even tho I hold the rail lines out of town. *Downfall Hitler rage*

If there could even be towns and factories that only produce certain things (like the Ilyushin factory in Moscow, or the KV factory in Leningrad) that would be quite grandiose.

One of my favorite stories of Barbarossa is the siege of Leningrad where soviet KV tanks rolled directly off the production lines and into combat, sans paint or seat covers. Seeing that recreated would be an awesome niche no other scenario of this conflict ive played has ever filled.



Yea that is awesome. That type of revamp will take awhile though maybe gpw v2 :) Lol. I'd have to get something good out the door here then spend months adding in all the new sftypes similar to ostfront(capt kruft) & fite(grymme)
but seems like a fun challenge.

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to Kraftwerk)
Post #: 35
RE: gpw - 2/26/2012 6:50:49 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

lol

Is there a way to make a seperate terrian type that would be cheaper to build rails on, that you could paint under the current rail system, so that "converting" rail is cheaper than building entirely new european rail?




Hrm i'm not sure. I was poking vic to perhaps allow engineers to build over top of existing roads with a differnet road type to replace them. But until then this is the best way i could think of. It's a little different than the way grymme did his version for FITE.

I wanted the price to be more so that the germans really have to work at keeping their rail net moving forward. But not so easy that it would not require a sacrifice. If it's too easy then there is no point to even have different rail.

The way it was now i tested that if you push too much for a couple turns without getting your rail net closer you'll be over 100AP and at a 25% supply penalty pretty quickly. I think it's going to open up a lot of options for play.

Unlike WITE i want logistics to really matter for the germans.

There are a few ways i think germans will handle it (but i'd love to see AAR's of the gpw scen):
* Invest a lot of production into extra engineers. Pros you can keep more of your rail net moving forward. Con you're building engineers instead of replacements for front line troops.
* Focus your engineers near your panzer armies to make sure the tanks get supply. Leave the infantry to clean up low supply areas where you don't expect major resistance.

Also we're made rivers matter for big rivers you need a bridge to cross in most cases. We've also made FOW alot stronger so you will have to use the new recon planes to really get a good view of what's going on.



Since you bring up WITE, there are a few reasons why I don't like what I see in that game and you've hit one, one of the others is the lack of incentive for the Soviets to hold ground and lack of any sort of achievable victory conditions for the German.

Any thoughts on including some sort of mechanic to GPW to address these ?





Well the one basic event in GPW now is that when you old cities you get 1 PP per city per turn. In the old game i played with a few testers it seemed to be that the germans were pretty good at smashing the russians. Also the germans get to build 50% on captured russian facilities. Also the russians can't evac them.

And i added oil locations to the map that give the units fuel. I know people might argue up and down the germans never would have seen a drop of that oil the games about having fun. :)

I suppose if enough people complained enough i could make a scen varient that disabled oil from being captured.

If you have any ideas on how to help get soviets to fight up front i'm all ears?

After figuring out how to simulate rail road conversions i feel like nothing is impossible with ATG. :>




Well one idea tossed around on those forum discussions was to tally VP's every turn and have some sort of progressive total for each side to work towards. Obviously, territory and combat losses would be the most likely variables and each side should have some total metric to reach on territory and avoid on losses. I would imagine these metrics could be changed each year of the war or periodically to reflect historical events.

Sounds like a tall order for sure.






Hrm tallying victory points that sounds like what i did with my version of WAW from AT2. That might be doable. I just put up 7.1.6 it's got all the latest improvements and bug fixes. After i play test this one a bit hopefully it will be good to go. ;)

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 36
RE: gpw - 3/19/2012 10:50:48 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline
The newest things we're working on for GPW are the change of Lend lease from factories in the north and south to direct deliveries to the soviets.

We also are creating a card for the germans to move units to/from norway to help interdict the flow of Lend Lease thru murmansk. We will also be simulating persia after may 42 and also the limited deliveries (after dec 41) through siberia.

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 37
RE: gpw - 3/19/2012 10:51:46 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline
Here is the new isolated abstract of norway for germany to dedicate forces to interdicting LL.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 38
RE: gpw - 3/20/2012 9:25:00 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline
Added a type mountain unit which fights 1.5x as good in mountains

Added the 2 german mountain units




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 39
RE: gpw - 3/20/2012 9:26:02 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline
Also added the 4 soviet mountain divisions of the transcacusus army




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 40
RE: gpw - 8/19/2012 10:19:01 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

Well this is still just vanilla GPW with a few tweaks. It's not captain krufts or grymmes style. I'd love to eventually do the OOB similar to that and have each unit accounted for and have spare parts that account for repairing units but not yet.

Also the biggest thing so far now is that you have two separate rail systems. So I think the strategy will be every turn or every few turns the german player pays the 5PP to call the Remove incorrect rail gauge card. Then you'll need your engineers to pay 30EP per hex to start running your new rail tracks. I did some initial play testing and by turn 3 if you don't have your engineers keeping up with your advance your HQ's will get out of the range of your supplys which could be a problem for germany.

I added rails because i wanted a way to help constrain the germans the further they got from their railheads.

The other major addition was oil. The axis starts with a few months of oil reserves then after that you're going to be hard pressed to be able to move every machine you have without running a fuel shortage.

It also gives the germans a real reason to go for the caucasus. I still have some extra things i want to add in there but over time that will come.



Heh i wonder if vic saw this and did it for Dc2. It looks like he had a more elegant way of handling it then i did. Though to be fair in DC2 you can't rebuild roads so he didn't get to let the engineers rebuild roads.

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 41
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