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gpw - 11/1/2011 11:57:09 AM   
bwheatley

 

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The gpw scen of twebers that i was updating for AT i've been porting to ATG.

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RE: gpw - 2/17/2012 7:05:39 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Back to porting this to atg it takes awhile since i can't just apply the new master file without boning everything else included in the game.

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RE: gpw - 2/19/2012 10:48:23 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Latest change i'm adding in is the ability to have 2 different rail types. Euro Rail for the germans and russian rail for the soviets. I have it now so germany supply won't transport down russian rail and the soviet supply won't transfer down european rail. There is a remove incorrect rail gauge card that costs 5PP. It will remove all the wrong rail inside your territory. That allows you to use your engineers to keep building the rail network.

I also created OIL and converted Polesti, Maiko & Baku to oil instead of supply.

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 2:11:57 AM   
LazyBoy

 

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Sounding good

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 2:35:11 AM   
bwheatley

 

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GPW for ATG
Docs

7.1.5

replaced my old Nato graphics with the new atg nato mod
had to make a new scout nato icon
look into reworking lend lease
turn up the cost of building roads
remove option for 6 people for now
tweak rulevar 316/317 to .5/.75
tweak rulevar 36 - to .25 from .10



7.1 - ATG conversion

adding in fuel usage for all equipment
working on converting to nato graphics
reset the sf type groups for all units

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 2:51:27 AM   
bwheatley

 

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New image screenshot

Full screenshot


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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 3:56:04 AM   
Kraftwerk

 

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Awesome!! Will the failmanians, err, Rumanians, have their own unit typse, or a stat malus or something of the like?

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 4:03:39 AM   
bwheatley

 

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Well this is still just vanilla GPW with a few tweaks. It's not captain krufts or grymmes style. I'd love to eventually do the OOB similar to that and have each unit accounted for and have spare parts that account for repairing units but not yet.

Also the biggest thing so far now is that you have two separate rail systems. So I think the strategy will be every turn or every few turns the german player pays the 5PP to call the Remove incorrect rail gauge card. Then you'll need your engineers to pay 30EP per hex to start running your new rail tracks. I did some initial play testing and by turn 3 if you don't have your engineers keeping up with your advance your HQ's will get out of the range of your supplys which could be a problem for germany.

I added rails because i wanted a way to help constrain the germans the further they got from their railheads.

The other major addition was oil. The axis starts with a few months of oil reserves then after that you're going to be hard pressed to be able to move every machine you have without running a fuel shortage.

It also gives the germans a real reason to go for the caucasus. I still have some extra things i want to add in there but over time that will come.

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 4:04:02 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Awesome!! Will the failmanians, err, Rumanians, have their own unit typse, or a stat malus or something of the like?


What type of stuff were you looking for?

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Post #: 9
RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 5:00:58 AM   
Kraftwerk

 

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Well something that makes them less effective than the german divisions, but that cant be easily over come, like say just starting with less staff, or XP. Maybe the SM 79 could replace the level bomber as a less effective Rumanian aircraft that could be built at Rumanian cities. Maybe the vz.33 or pz.35(t) as a less effective light tank. Rumanian troops werent nessacarily worse, just not as well led or supplied. Player can surely change that.

Late war they used Pz.IVs on up to Panthers so no need for specific types of units beyond 1942. Those two things would make them permanently less effective unless you sent panzers produced in german cities to Rumanian units, which I dont think youd want to do.


Shouldnt be able to rely on the Rumanians to do things like take Odessa or the Crimea by themselves without german nationals helping either with units, or production.


Looks great though. Gary Grigsbys War In The East but with research and production. What youre doing with rail is amazing. Looking forward to this quite a bit!

Was going to do a PBEM of this scenario but when we found out it wasnt done we went with Russia41.

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 3:04:00 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Well something that makes them less effective than the german divisions, but that cant be easily over come, like say just starting with less staff, or XP. Maybe the SM 79 could replace the level bomber as a less effective Rumanian aircraft that could be built at Rumanian cities. Maybe the vz.33 or pz.35(t) as a less effective light tank. Rumanian troops werent nessacarily worse, just not as well led or supplied. Player can surely change that.

Late war they used Pz.IVs on up to Panthers so no need for specific types of units beyond 1942. Those two things would make them permanently less effective unless you sent panzers produced in german cities to Rumanian units, which I dont think youd want to do.


Shouldnt be able to rely on the Rumanians to do things like take Odessa or the Crimea by themselves without german nationals helping either with units, or production.


Looks great though. Gary Grigsbys War In The East but with research and production. What youre doing with rail is amazing. Looking forward to this quite a bit!

Was going to do a PBEM of this scenario but when we found out it wasnt done we went with Russia41.



Cool maybe you can help me play test it. I have a buddy who also helps but can never have too much play testing.

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 4:53:16 PM   
Kraftwerk

 

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I have noting but time, id love to help playtest.

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 5:00:48 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Already found a couple bugs with the new rail code. :) I forgot to change the german railroad guns over to use European rail instead of russian rail.

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 6:13:12 PM   
Kraftwerk

 

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lol

Is there a way to make a seperate terrian type that would be cheaper to build rails on, that you could paint under the current rail system, so that "converting" rail is cheaper than building entirely new european rail?


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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 7:04:10 PM   
Jay Doubleyou

 

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GPW in the AT2 days. Man I played that scenario till my mouse was worn down and had to buy a new one. Not to mention my wife complaining that I played too much with the game instead of ... well you know

Played it many times with CCR (Charles, haven't seen him in ATG by the way), multiplayer (2 vs 2) and even in the version with the OKH/Stavka commander and subsequent generals for the several AG/Fronts.

Cool that it is being revised for ATG!

< Message edited by Jay Doubleyou -- 2/20/2012 7:05:35 PM >

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 9:24:44 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jay Doubleyou

GPW in the AT2 days. Man I played that scenario till my mouse was worn down and had to buy a new one. Not to mention my wife complaining that I played too much with the game instead of ... well you know

Played it many times with CCR (Charles, haven't seen him in ATG by the way), multiplayer (2 vs 2) and even in the version with the OKH/Stavka commander and subsequent generals for the several AG/Fronts.

Cool that it is being revised for ATG!


Thanks if you have any other suggestions feel free to shoot them out and give me something to work towards. :)

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RE: gpw - 2/20/2012 9:30:22 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

lol

Is there a way to make a seperate terrian type that would be cheaper to build rails on, that you could paint under the current rail system, so that "converting" rail is cheaper than building entirely new european rail?




Hrm i'm not sure. I was poking vic to perhaps allow engineers to build over top of existing roads with a differnet road type to replace them. But until then this is the best way i could think of. It's a little different than the way grymme did his version for FITE.

I wanted the price to be more so that the germans really have to work at keeping their rail net moving forward. But not so easy that it would not require a sacrifice. If it's too easy then there is no point to even have different rail.

The way it was now i tested that if you push too much for a couple turns without getting your rail net closer you'll be over 100AP and at a 25% supply penalty pretty quickly. I think it's going to open up a lot of options for play.

Unlike WITE i want logistics to really matter for the germans.

There are a few ways i think germans will handle it (but i'd love to see AAR's of the gpw scen):
* Invest a lot of production into extra engineers. Pros you can keep more of your rail net moving forward. Con you're building engineers instead of replacements for front line troops.
* Focus your engineers near your panzer armies to make sure the tanks get supply. Leave the infantry to clean up low supply areas where you don't expect major resistance.

Also we're made rivers matter for big rivers you need a bridge to cross in most cases. We've also made FOW alot stronger so you will have to use the new recon planes to really get a good view of what's going on.


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RE: gpw - 2/21/2012 1:08:09 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

lol

Is there a way to make a seperate terrian type that would be cheaper to build rails on, that you could paint under the current rail system, so that "converting" rail is cheaper than building entirely new european rail?




shoot me an email at bwheatley@gmail.com to setup the playtesting of gpw.

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RE: gpw - 2/21/2012 9:19:42 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Gonna upload a new version to the site in a bit. Found a few more bugs that are being fixed with regards to the euro/russian rail.

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Post #: 19
RE: gpw - 2/21/2012 10:16:08 PM   
Kraftwerk

 

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Email sent

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RE: gpw - 2/22/2012 3:54:44 AM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

lol

Is there a way to make a seperate terrian type that would be cheaper to build rails on, that you could paint under the current rail system, so that "converting" rail is cheaper than building entirely new european rail?




Hrm i'm not sure. I was poking vic to perhaps allow engineers to build over top of existing roads with a differnet road type to replace them. But until then this is the best way i could think of. It's a little different than the way grymme did his version for FITE.

I wanted the price to be more so that the germans really have to work at keeping their rail net moving forward. But not so easy that it would not require a sacrifice. If it's too easy then there is no point to even have different rail.

The way it was now i tested that if you push too much for a couple turns without getting your rail net closer you'll be over 100AP and at a 25% supply penalty pretty quickly. I think it's going to open up a lot of options for play.

Unlike WITE i want logistics to really matter for the germans.

There are a few ways i think germans will handle it (but i'd love to see AAR's of the gpw scen):
* Invest a lot of production into extra engineers. Pros you can keep more of your rail net moving forward. Con you're building engineers instead of replacements for front line troops.
* Focus your engineers near your panzer armies to make sure the tanks get supply. Leave the infantry to clean up low supply areas where you don't expect major resistance.

Also we're made rivers matter for big rivers you need a bridge to cross in most cases. We've also made FOW alot stronger so you will have to use the new recon planes to really get a good view of what's going on.



Since you bring up WITE, there are a few reasons why I don't like what I see in that game and you've hit one, one of the others is the lack of incentive for the Soviets to hold ground and lack of any sort of achievable victory conditions for the German.

Any thoughts on including some sort of mechanic to GPW to address these ?



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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 4:16:48 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

lol

Is there a way to make a seperate terrian type that would be cheaper to build rails on, that you could paint under the current rail system, so that "converting" rail is cheaper than building entirely new european rail?




Hrm i'm not sure. I was poking vic to perhaps allow engineers to build over top of existing roads with a differnet road type to replace them. But until then this is the best way i could think of. It's a little different than the way grymme did his version for FITE.

I wanted the price to be more so that the germans really have to work at keeping their rail net moving forward. But not so easy that it would not require a sacrifice. If it's too easy then there is no point to even have different rail.

The way it was now i tested that if you push too much for a couple turns without getting your rail net closer you'll be over 100AP and at a 25% supply penalty pretty quickly. I think it's going to open up a lot of options for play.

Unlike WITE i want logistics to really matter for the germans.

There are a few ways i think germans will handle it (but i'd love to see AAR's of the gpw scen):
* Invest a lot of production into extra engineers. Pros you can keep more of your rail net moving forward. Con you're building engineers instead of replacements for front line troops.
* Focus your engineers near your panzer armies to make sure the tanks get supply. Leave the infantry to clean up low supply areas where you don't expect major resistance.

Also we're made rivers matter for big rivers you need a bridge to cross in most cases. We've also made FOW alot stronger so you will have to use the new recon planes to really get a good view of what's going on.



Since you bring up WITE, there are a few reasons why I don't like what I see in that game and you've hit one, one of the others is the lack of incentive for the Soviets to hold ground and lack of any sort of achievable victory conditions for the German.

Any thoughts on including some sort of mechanic to GPW to address these ?





Well the one basic event in GPW now is that when you old cities you get 1 PP per city per turn. In the old game i played with a few testers it seemed to be that the germans were pretty good at smashing the russians. Also the germans get to build 50% on captured russian facilities. Also the russians can't evac them.

And i added oil locations to the map that give the units fuel. I know people might argue up and down the germans never would have seen a drop of that oil the games about having fun. :)

I suppose if enough people complained enough i could make a scen varient that disabled oil from being captured.

If you have any ideas on how to help get soviets to fight up front i'm all ears?

After figuring out how to simulate rail road conversions i feel like nothing is impossible with ATG. :>



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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 4:39:10 AM   
bwheatley

 

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In my latest test play through

North


Center


Panzer group 3


South
Hard fighting


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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 4:43:01 AM   
bwheatley

 

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And we actually have a pretty good deal of losses 3 weaks in.


We've lost a tank but we are also pushing very hard and losing a lot of infantry to my desire to drive forward. If it's anything like my last GPW game i'll stall out outside of leningrad and miss moscow by a few hexes before siberians arrive.

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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 4:44:10 AM   
stone10


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Logistics are really important for the Germans in WITE.

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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 4:44:35 AM   
bwheatley

 

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One tweak i've made from my initial playing was to up the cost of building a railroad so it will be a little harder on the germans to stay in supply. In my case now i have about 10% of my units that are suffering a 25% supply penalty.

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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 4:59:30 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stone10

Logistics are really important for the Germans in WITE.


Yea they are important but I found and argued for tweaks to the modifier. It wasn't painful enough.
In this version i'm hoping for the germans to really have supply difficulties the further down the road they get. But also in this version the soviets can attrit the german player from turn 1 as you see by my losses. The soviets can put up large kiev and smolensk type battles and bleed the germans. In my last game of GPW back in AT I realized i had lost when i burned too many people trying to take leningrad.

As the russians i was able to burn out a few german panzer divisions with in depth defense of the land bridge west of smolensk.

Not saying this scen will be anywhere as in depth as WITE but it will be enjoyable.

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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 3:28:16 PM   
Kraftwerk

 

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It could be MORE in depth if you wanted. Nothing ATG cant do that WITE can. Perhaps factory evacuation cant be done, but ive always thought that was silly in WITE, shoulda happened automatically when towns are captured, instead of the soviet player being able to Robinovich and clear his entire factory base to siberia and ignore moving troops forward.

What atg does is allows the germans and the soviets to pick their production and upgrades, where WITE pigeon holes you.

Itd be tough, but many specific unit types could be researched and added, slightly tweaked for balancing. I think certain monolithic pieces of equipment should make an appearance. The vaunted Ju87 stuka, and its various versions should be represented, as should the Tiger, KV series, T-34, Pz38t, He-111, IL-2, La-7n, and Me262/Ta-152.

These weapon systems went above and beyond the call of duty, and were much more effective than thier counterparts world wide.

Also since you have production and research, some wastes of your production and research should be available too. Nuclear research, synthetic oil research, super, super heavy tanks, .... germany should of course be able to upgrade the kriegsmarine even though thats pointless. Stuff to distract the german player.


Though to be fair, the one thing people leave out of the Russian - German war, is the naval action in the black sea. Though the scale makes it hard to replicate, since it was basically soviets in fishing boats playing pirate, and german patrol craft and submarines...but if you ask me it was the most interesting naval struggle during the war.

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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 4:23:22 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

... Perhaps factory evacuation cant be done, but ive always thought that was silly in WITE, shoulda happened automatically when towns are captured, instead of the soviet player being able to Robinovich and clear his entire factory base to siberia and ignore moving troops forward.



Actually it would be possible to make an event that the first time a city was captured it was 1). downgraded in production, and 2). a new factory arrives in Siberia.

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RE: gpw - 2/24/2012 5:50:14 PM   
Kraftwerk

 

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Now thats a winner solution right there. Considering the mass exodus of people from white russia, there werent many people left that the germans could prod in the back to get to work for them. Some sort of downgrade of production upon capture will be necessary anyways. If you could make a factory pop up east of Gorky somewhere when that happens all the better.

It also helps the axis player which is insanely out matched if the scenario keeps historical context, as pockets can hurt a bit more. A pocket around production centers is going to doom whats produced there until its finally reduced and the event fires.

Nothing more irritating to me in my WITE games, than the soviet player properly defending leningrad, never moving the KV factories, and somehow, by magic flying carpets, KV-13s are filling up Guards tank corps in AGS, even tho I hold the rail lines out of town. *Downfall Hitler rage*

If there could even be towns and factories that only produce certain things (like the Ilyushin factory in Moscow, or the KV factory in Leningrad) that would be quite grandiose.

One of my favorite stories of Barbarossa is the siege of Leningrad where soviet KV tanks rolled directly off the production lines and into combat, sans paint or seat covers. Seeing that recreated would be an awesome niche no other scenario of this conflict ive played has ever filled.


< Message edited by Kraftwerk -- 2/24/2012 5:51:47 PM >

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