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units stuck in pool.

 
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units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 1:59:35 AM   
Pelton

 

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I try transfering this units from pool to armys, corps or divisions.

They dissappear the next turn and the 3rd turn appear back in the pool.

I tried transfering then now 2 times. A huge waste of ap pts to say the least.

I tried north center and south, armys corps and divisions any ideas?

Pelton




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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 2:32:25 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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Don't understand. What unit(s) are you trying to transfer, and where are they now?

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 10:47:05 AM   
Pelton

 

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I click on an army gruop. In AGN or AGC or AGS and do transfer. The next turn the support unit is not in the army gruop or in the pool. The next turn its back in the pool.

I click on an Corps. In AGN or AGC or AGS and do transfer. The next turn the support unit is not in the army gruop or in the pool. The next turn its back in the pool.

I click on an Division. In AGN or AGC or AGS and do transfer. The next turn the support unit is not in the army gruop or in the pool. The next turn its back in the pool.

Before the blizzard I removed all artillary units from infantry divisions, corps and armys. Its September and they are all still sitting in the pool, I can't move them back into units.

Going to suck come 42/43 winter when all my art is still stuck at OKH

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 2:06:23 PM   
Pelton

 

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Pre 1.05 a division could pull units from the AG it was in right to front, has this been changed?

I recorded 20 transfers, most are from AG to and Army under the AG. I did a few from corps to AG and 1 from AG to a division to see whats been messing up.

I post results next turn.

Wasted about 250 ap tring to transfer units last 8 turns. ALL as in every infantry army has zero gun units in it.

Last turn 4 gun units got kicked out of 11th army back to pool? wth?

I might have found issue ALL support levels were set at 0 on every infantry army, corps and division.

I did not do this, I am guessing 1.05 patch reset all these from 3 to zero? Not sure I reset all and did transfers.

I will see if units move next turn or dissappear agan then reappear the following turn back in pool.

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 2:40:22 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

I might have found issue ALL support levels were set at 0 on every infantry army, corps and division.

I did not do this, I am guessing 1.05 patch reset all these from 3 to zero? Not sure I reset all and did transfers.


Interesting, that was my guess, SL=0. It would be more interesting if the patch did it but no other Axis player reported that yet. My thought was that you did that to get them out over blizzard then forgot to reset the SL before you transferred.

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 3:47:52 PM   
marty_01

 

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Pretty gamey. I wonder what the morale effect on the average German grunt spending his winter in a stinky lice filled trench outside of Orel when he found out all the panzer divisions and motorized infantry divisions along with all corps and army level artillery, pioneers, stug battalions and etc got to winter in the cousy warmth of Berlin. I'd vote for some sort of additional Morale hit to occur to German Formations during the first winter based upon numbers of German soldiers that spend the first winter in Germany.

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 4:53:16 PM   
Joel Billings


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An SL=0 will cause the units to leave the HQ, so the question is can you figure out when/how the SLs got set to 0.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 5:00:33 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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Remember that if you choose a function field in the CR and do not enter a value in it, a default value of "0" is entered. This is a problem for when people go experimenting by checking out the various functions, or even just get fumbly-fingered and click on a function by accident.

The best way for Pelton to fix his problem is to set all HQs to be Locked, and then reassign his SUs.

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 9:46:55 PM   
Pelton

 

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Seeing I have been reading rule book for first time the last month, normal guy thing play game for 6 months then read rule book hehehe.

Anyways I had no idea about SL rules until I read the rule yesterday heheheh. So I am guessing it was not me?

I transfered units out one at a time before blizzard.


Ok last turn I set levels to 9 on armys 3 on corps and divisions.

I sent 5 artillary from AGS to 6th army and there are now zero artillary in 16th army. So SL level is not issue. 5 more wasted ap pts

I sent 502 HVY PZ to SS division and its in the division, woot I did waste an ap.

I sent one pioneer from II Corps to 16th army and its still in II corps another wasted AP pt

I sent one poineer from II Corps to AGN and its still in II Corps and wasted ap pt.

I sent one Poineer from XXVIII to OKH and its still in XXVIII and another wasted ap pt.

Ok now the really really big wasted ap was I sent units from OKH to AGS AGN and AGC 2 turns ago. Atleast 50 each to move the usless pos out of OKH. The units moved to the AG last turn woot I win, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the dam units are back in OKH WTH?

I can't move units up or down chain unless its to a few units, some infantry units have AA, Poinneers ect in them but no gun units.

New units arriving in the pool like the 502 moved NP.

I have a bunch of missing artillary units this turn they not in pool or at front. next 2 posts will explain problem.




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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 9:47:54 PM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 64 Pool




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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 9:55:31 PM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 66 pool.

Where are the units? They not at front, not in AG's not in armys not in corps and not in divisions?

I have
9 HVY Nebelwerfer battalions MIA
5 Nebelwerfer battalions MIA

to name a few I tried putting them in 2nd an 4th PZ armys. I know next turn they show up back in the pool. 4th PZ su levels have been at 3 because they have always had support units in them though this mess.

Ok I have used at least 300+ ap tring to move these POS units up down and all arround.

Its a server game an its F____d up.

If someone has an idea I can try I be interested at this point.

ALL SU levels are 3 or better.

Pelton




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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 10:04:59 PM   
Pelton

 

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Ok found the Nebs they went into the XXXXI corps?

Why are units moving from 4th army HQ into corps with out me moving them?

the units I try sending some wheres dont move then ones I dont want to move move?

Its got to be me or is it Halloween tonight?

I am about to give up on this one.

Pelton

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 10:08:30 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

If someone has an idea I can try I be interested at this point.

Lock *ALL* HQs, bite the bullet and spend the APs. Don't rely on the Auto-shuffling of SUs to do anything other than to screw you up. Trying to save APs by letting it move them about is a fool's errand.

< Message edited by JAMiAM -- 10/28/2011 10:09:02 PM >

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/28/2011 10:19:27 PM   
Pelton

 

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Ok I try again.

I lock all divisions at 3
Corps at 6
AG's at 9

Its a game wth I like to figure this out at some point.

Picked a good game to have this screw up, nothing be going on for another few months.

The one thats pissing me off the most is the poinneers will not move and there is no reason they should not be moving to OKH or AGN or 16th army.

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 12:34:04 AM   
Marquo


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Pelton,

If you set corps at 6 and AGs at 9, then the SUs will flow upward to the AGs; locking the divisions at 3 means nothing except that the division is locked with whatever is in at the moment you lock it- nothing will move in or out. Only lock when you are happy with what is in the division.

If you have the patience, lock everything, and send what ever you want to assign eslewhere to OKH; then move OHH around the map and directly assign the SU to the unit where you want it - to move from OKH to the unit will cost nothing.

Marquo

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 12:34:11 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Ok I try again.

I lock all divisions at 3
Corps at 6
AG's at 9



Pelton, I am no expert on this HQ Support level stuff myself, but here is what I think I know:

1. You can't "lock" HQs at any particular support level #. What you can do is "set" the support level of HQs at a particular level. The program will then try and send that many of each type of support unit, if available, to that HQ. So if you set a particular Corps HQ at support level 6 the program will try and send that HQ 6 support units of each type. Of course if you already have more than 6 units of a particular type in that HQ it will also send the excess away. Also if you set all of your Corps HQs to support level 6 and AGs to 9 you probably won't have enough support units of all types to go around.

2. In any event the program is far from perfect. For example as the Russians I recently set all my Corp HQs to SL:0 and my Army HQs to 3. I then went around and manually transfered support units from STAVKA to my Armies (IE 3 artillery each, 3 howitzers each, etc.). Next turn I found that the program had transferred a lot of these support units out of the Army HQs to the Corp HQs. Why did it do this? I don't know, but it is frustrating.

3. To avoid having the program move support units around for you you can "lock" a particular HQs Support. What this does is prevent the movement of any support units in or out of that HQ and all of it's subordinate HQs. In other words it overrides the support level # of that HQ and it's subordinates. So if you "lock" an HQs support then it doesn't matter if it's support level is 0 or 9, no support units will be moving in or out of that HQ or it's subordinate HQs. Of coures this means you will have to manually move your support units in and out of that HQ which will cost you APs.

4. I believe what JAMiAM was suggesting you do is "lock" your OKH support. Since all other HQs are subordinate to OKH this will effecitvely mean that none of your support units will move unless you move them manually. This will generally cost you APs, but once you move a support unit into an HQ you will never have to worry again about it being transferred out by the program.

5. You keep referring to a "pool" of support units, but I am not aware of any such "pool". I think what you may be referring to is when you click on the "assign support" button (or whatever it is called) of an HQ a list will come up of support units which can be assigned to that HQ. However, these support units are not coming (to the best of my knowledge) from any "pool"; I beleive where they are coming from is other HQs within a certain range of that HQ. So essentially by adding a support unit to an HQ in this way you are taking a support unit away from another HQ.

6. My own preferred way of assigning support units to an HQ is to find an HQ which has an over abundance of the type of support unit I am looking for (which for the Russians is often STAVKA and I assume for the Germans is OKH) and then move it (preferably by rail) within 10 hexes of the HQ I want to receive the support unit. I then click on the support unit I want to transfer within the giving HQs interface and it will call up a screen of eligible HQs within range that I can transfer the support unit to. I then click on the receiving HQ and the transfer is completed.

7. If you "push" a support unit from STAVKA to another HQ as I've suggested above(rather than "pulling" it from STAVKA) it does not cost any APs. I assume you can do the same with OKH. So a trick is to set all of your HQ support levels to 0 except OKH. Within a couple turns most of your support units will be in OKH. Then "Lock" OKHs support. Put OKH on a train and rail it around and push units from OKH to each of your HQs. As I said you will need to be within 10 hexes of the HQ you want to push the support unit to. This should not cost you any APs. If it does, and since STAVKA cad do it for free, this is another thing you will want to start a post that should be nerfed for the Soviets.

Sorry if I've told you a bunch a stuff you already knew; but hopefully somebody will get something out of this post.

Edit: Hmmm... While I was typing Marquo said what I said in much fewer words

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 10/29/2011 12:42:00 AM >

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 1:20:44 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

4. I believe what JAMiAM was suggesting you do is "lock" your OKH support. Since all other HQs are subordinate to OKH this will effecitvely mean that none of your support units will move unless you move them manually. This will generally cost you APs, but once you move a support unit into an HQ you will never have to worry again about it being transferred out by the program.

Actually, I was suggesting to lock *ALL* HQs. Do all SU movement manually. I rarely bother with trying to save APs by monkeying about with the free "push" from OKH/STAVKA. Since you can only push the SU to an HQ, and it still costs an AP to pull it to a unit, I usually just pull from OKH/STAVKA to wherever on the map I am. In the long run, it doesn't cost that much more in APs and the frustration saved is priceless...

< Message edited by JAMiAM -- 10/29/2011 1:21:41 AM >

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 3:32:38 AM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

4. I believe what JAMiAM was suggesting you do is "lock" your OKH support. Since all other HQs are subordinate to OKH this will effecitvely mean that none of your support units will move unless you move them manually. This will generally cost you APs, but once you move a support unit into an HQ you will never have to worry again about it being transferred out by the program.

Actually, I was suggesting to lock *ALL* HQs. Do all SU movement manually. I rarely bother with trying to save APs by monkeying about with the free "push" from OKH/STAVKA. Since you can only push the SU to an HQ, and it still costs an AP to pull it to a unit, I usually just pull from OKH/STAVKA to wherever on the map I am. In the long run, it doesn't cost that much more in APs and the frustration saved is priceless...


+1

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 6:59:01 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

4. I believe what JAMiAM was suggesting you do is "lock" your OKH support. Since all other HQs are subordinate to OKH this will effecitvely mean that none of your support units will move unless you move them manually. This will generally cost you APs, but once you move a support unit into an HQ you will never have to worry again about it being transferred out by the program.

Actually, I was suggesting to lock *ALL* HQs. Do all SU movement manually. I rarely bother with trying to save APs by monkeying about with the free "push" from OKH/STAVKA. Since you can only push the SU to an HQ, and it still costs an AP to pull it to a unit, I usually just pull from OKH/STAVKA to wherever on the map I am. In the long run, it doesn't cost that much more in APs and the frustration saved is priceless...


My understanding is that if you "Lock" OKH there is no need to "Lock" any of the other HQs since they are all subordinate to OKH so they are all effectively locked anyway. Is this wrong? If so what movement of support units will take place if OKH or STAVKA is locked?

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 12:44:52 PM   
gingerbread


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Lock command does not cascade, so even if you lock OKH, SU's can move from say AGS to 6th Army if these latter two are not locked and have support settings triggering such a move.

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 1:57:41 PM   
Pelton

 

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Nice info guys.

Looks like easyest way to settle things out might be to lock OKH,AGS,AGC,AGN and each Army.

Set all Divisions to 3 SL.

Thanks Again for all help.

At some point I might even know how to play this game, hehehe

Pelton

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 2:36:08 PM   
pompack


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Early game SU movement tactic (and the only time I ever operate with anything unlocked)

1. Set active corps/army (Ger/Sov) to 3
2. Set OKH/STAVKA) to 9
3. Set AG/Front to 1 as well as German Armee
4. Set all others to 0
5. Wait two turns
6. Set AG/Front (and German Armee) to 0 and OKH/STAVKA to 1
7. Wait one turn
8. Lock everything and move the rest manually because while auto will continue to move things around it will probably not do what you want it to do


If you have specific needs early at the corps/army level then lock that specific HQ and manually load it with SUs; don't depend on them staying if you fail to lock it even if the support level is above the SU level.

EDIT: Note that you can move German SUs to Divisions at any time because the SUs will always stay where you put them

EDIT: Whoops, left a very importent phrase out of step 6

< Message edited by pompack -- 10/29/2011 5:08:06 PM >

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 7:03:06 PM   
Pelton

 

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Ok that worked.

Guns are atleast at the front.

I can move stuff around and it stays now.

Thanks for help all

Pelton

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/29/2011 7:53:06 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Lock command does not cascade, so even if you lock OKH, SU's can move from say AGS to 6th Army if these latter two are not locked and have support settings triggering such a move.



Thanks Gingerbread; see I said I was no expert at this.

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/30/2011 2:58:56 PM   
Marquo


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"Looks like easyest way to settle things out might be to lock OKH,AGS,AGC,AGN and each Army.

Set all Divisions to 3 SL."

You can't set the divisions to 3; you have to manually move SUs into the divisions. If you do as you plan, then nothing will flow from the AGs to the Armies to the Corps; lock these only after your corps are where you want them.

Think of this as a waterfall cascade; first fill up the lake by putting OKH to 9 and everything else to 0 --> then all SUs will move to the reservoir. Then you can open the dam and let the SUs cascade down to the corps.

Pompack writes:

5. Wait two turns
6. Set AG/Front (and German Armee) to 0 and OKH/STAVKA to 1
7. Wait one turn
8. Lock everything and move the rest manually because while auto will continue to move things around it will probably not do what you want it to do.

But I think this will cause SUs to flow up from the AGs to OKH and I am not sure why this is needed. I would set OKH to 0, AG to O and corps to 3 - 6 and everything will flow into the corps.

Marquo

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/30/2011 3:17:25 PM   
Pelton

 

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Yes I waited 2 turns and AG's and OKH were empty.

I am still having some issues moving poineers around, but I beleive its because several corps are bugged. I set SL to zero and I still have 12+ units in both corps.

I can live with that.

Pelton

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Post #: 26
RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/30/2011 3:33:16 PM   
Marquo


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The corps are not bugged; are the AGs/Armies all set to zero?

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RE: units stuck in pool. - 10/30/2011 4:54:35 PM   
heliodorus04


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

If someone has an idea I can try I be interested at this point.

Lock *ALL* HQs, bite the bullet and spend the APs. Don't rely on the Auto-shuffling of SUs to do anything other than to screw you up. Trying to save APs by letting it move them about is a fool's errand.

+ infinity

Pioneers will not move at all when you're relying on auto-allocation/prioritization. This is a huge problem.

I tried saving APs by setting prioritizations, and it was a train wreck. Far better to set everything to locked, and to move things 1 AP at a time to OKH. With OKH, on the other hand, you can "push" artillery SUs into corps for free (when the OKH counter is close enough to the target artillery) but this takes some advance preparation (move OKH close enough to the corp HQs that need the artillery) OR, if that's not possible (let's say OKH is at Pskov and 11th Army needs artillery), and you have an immediate issue, you can pull the SUs from OKH for 1 AP a piece. But there's no inefficiency. On the other hand, with things like Pioneers and Stugs, these USUALLY do best when directly attached to a division, which is always going to cost 1 AP whether you pull it from OKH or an Army Group HQ, so you can just leave all that stuff in OKH.


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