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USN Torpedo Question - 10/25/2011 3:56:33 PM   
Gunner98


Posts: 1169
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline 		In the manual:

In January 1943, all torpedoes with a dud rate of greater than 49 have their dud rates reduced
by 20. In September 1943, all torpedoes with an adjusted dud rate greater than 20 have their
dud rates lowered to 10. Allied torpedoes were notoriously inefficient in the early stages of the
Pacific War, and this rule reflects their slow but steady improvement over the years

This makes sense and is probably a little generous. My concern is when should this take effect? I am now at Jan 2nd 43 in a VH campaign using the latest Beta against Japanese AI - on the 1st and 2nd of Jan I have scored 27 torpedo hits! That's more than for all of Dec and probably Nov as well! (I know FOW will affect the numbers but...) It seems that all torpedoes receive the dud rate adjustment at the same time - even if already at sea for a couple months.

I have not tracked this on the forum so it may well have been settled already but it seems to me that it would be more realistic and equitable if:
-Subs would have to return to port and reload to gain the benefit
-the entire stock could not be changed at once and there would be a lag time for modified torpedoes over a few weeks or even months - so there could be shortages
-Large bases and ports with an AS would get the benefit faster than a smaller port.
-Does this affect air launched torpedoes? If so, CVs should also have to replenish before getting the benefit - n'est pas?

Has this been considered before? Would it be possible to include in future patch?

Thanks

B
Post #: 1
RE: USN Torpedo Question - 10/25/2011 4:03:21 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

In the manual:

In January 1943, all torpedoes with a dud rate of greater than 49 have their dud rates reduced
by 20. In September 1943, all torpedoes with an adjusted dud rate greater than 20 have their
dud rates lowered to 10. Allied torpedoes were notoriously inefficient in the early stages of the
Pacific War, and this rule reflects their slow but steady improvement over the years

This makes sense and is probably a little generous. My concern is when should this take effect? I am now at Jan 2nd 43 in a VH campaign using the latest Beta against Japanese AI - on the 1st and 2nd of Jan I have scored 27 torpedo hits! That's more than for all of Dec and probably Nov as well! (I know FOW will affect the numbers but...) It seems that all torpedoes receive the dud rate adjustment at the same time - even if already at sea for a couple months.

I have not tracked this on the forum so it may well have been settled already but it seems to me that it would be more realistic and equitable if:
-Subs would have to return to port and reload to gain the benefit
-the entire stock could not be changed at once and there would be a lag time for modified torpedoes over a few weeks or even months - so there could be shortages
-Large bases and ports with an AS would get the benefit faster than a smaller port.
-Does this affect air launched torpedoes? If so, CVs should also have to replenish before getting the benefit - n'est pas?

Has this been considered before? Would it be possible to include in future patch?

Thanks

B



Afaik the Mk 14's greatest problems(but not all) could be almost field-fixed. Not at seas probably but at proper naval base it wouldn't take long to modify the detonators, we are talking about perhaps hours max/torp with good torpedo mechanics and tools... The deep-running problem afaik didnt require a fix other than simply setting the torpedoes to run more shallow, 7ft, was it?

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 2
RE: USN Torpedo Question - 10/25/2011 4:03:58 PM   
USS America


Posts: 16370
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The improved performance does happen immediately, even for fish already loaded at sea.  It does affect any torpedoes, including air launched, that start with a dud rate greater than 49.  I don't know for sure without looking in the editor which types this impacts, but by far the biggest impact is with the Mk 14 fish carried by USN subs.  They are effectively neutered as attack platforms with an 80% dud rate until Jan 1, 43.  The reduction to 60% is a good boost to their effectiveness.

Your ideas for rolling out the improved torps have merit, but I'm sure such a change is likely beyond the scope of any patch changes.  Think of the Jan 1, '43 date not as the day the torps were "fixed", but the day they are effectively distributed to the fleet.  The subsequent improvement in 9/43 reflects additional defects fixed, and the completion of the fleet wide roll out of the improved versions.


< Message edited by USS America -- 10/25/2011 4:04:29 PM >

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(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 3
RE: USN Torpedo Question - 10/25/2011 4:28:45 PM   
ncdawg


Posts: 139
Joined: 7/28/2009
From: Raleigh NC
Status: offline 		I agree with Errki.

As I recall there were three major issues with the Mk-14's:

1)  They ran too deep  (solution - use a shallower depth setting)
2)  The magnetic exploders were unreliable (solution - turn off the magnetic exploder)
3)  The contact exploder didn't work if the torp hit a target at a 90-degree angle (quick fix - use glancing shots, permanent fix-modify the exploder)

Only the third issue required an actual modification to the torpedo.


(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 4
RE: USN Torpedo Question - 10/25/2011 4:34:08 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 6111
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/now in Israel
Status: offline 		Reduction from 80% to 60% dud rate (in game) was mainly because of disabling magnetic detonator. That could be done at sea and indeed some submarines had done that already in late 1942 (against orders).

The September 1943 reduction from 60% to 10% (in game) could not be done at sea, because it required e.g. replacing the contact pistols (detonators) in torpedoes..

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 10/25/2011 4:35:05 PM >

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(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 5
RE: USN Torpedo Question - 10/25/2011 5:00:26 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18658
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

In the manual:

In January 1943, all torpedoes with a dud rate of greater than 49 have their dud rates reduced
by 20. In September 1943, all torpedoes with an adjusted dud rate greater than 20 have their
dud rates lowered to 10. Allied torpedoes were notoriously inefficient in the early stages of the
Pacific War, and this rule reflects their slow but steady improvement over the years

This makes sense and is probably a little generous. My concern is when should this take effect? I am now at Jan 2nd 43 in a VH campaign using the latest Beta against Japanese AI - on the 1st and 2nd of Jan I have scored 27 torpedo hits! That's more than for all of Dec and probably Nov as well! (I know FOW will affect the numbers but...) It seems that all torpedoes receive the dud rate adjustment at the same time - even if already at sea for a couple months.

I have not tracked this on the forum so it may well have been settled already but it seems to me that it would be more realistic and equitable if:
-Subs would have to return to port and reload to gain the benefit
-the entire stock could not be changed at once and there would be a lag time for modified torpedoes over a few weeks or even months - so there could be shortages
-Large bases and ports with an AS would get the benefit faster than a smaller port.
-Does this affect air launched torpedoes? If so, CVs should also have to replenish before getting the benefit - n'est pas?

Has this been considered before? Would it be possible to include in future patch?

Thanks

B


The early 1943 change will double the efficacy of the Mk 14. So, given equal opportunities for target engagement, I'd expect as many exploding-upon-contact-with-intended-target Mk. 14s in January 1943 as I would in November and December 1942.

Might you be seeing an unusual spike because of more numerous submarine engagements?

I agree with the other comments about the lack of necessity to RTB for the torpedo fixes. Something that could be done with doctrinal change for the most part.

_____________________________


(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 6
RE: USN Torpedo Question - 10/25/2011 5:55:26 PM   
Gunner98


Posts: 1169
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline 		OK guys - thanks for the quick and thorough answers - I'll get back in my box and go ship hunting.

Chickenboy: I think the number of encounters was actually down a bit, I had pushed a bunch that were due to upgrade in Dec 42 back to PH to refit and was holding them back to wait for the 'new' torps - no need so I'll let loose the dogs of war..

B

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 7
RE: USN Torpedo Question - 10/25/2011 7:16:06 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 7514
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		When the game came out, I played a full year vs the AI. I had no trouble sinking multitudes of Japaneses ships because the AI ran it merchant convoys as poorly as the Japanese in real life. So, enjoy.

However, any competent Japanese email opponent can effectively neuter the Allied subs. Making them fun to play with but really having no dramatic impact on the campaign. So it is hard to compare. Any of you JFBs who are having trouble controlling Allied subs need only contact my opponent Viperpol for some advice. That dude has got me clamped down...

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(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 8
RE: USN Torpedo Question - 10/26/2011 10:26:23 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 6111
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/now in Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

When the game came out, I played a full year vs the AI. I had no trouble sinking multitudes of Japaneses ships because the AI ran it merchant convoys as poorly as the Japanese in real life. So, enjoy.

However, any competent Japanese email opponent can effectively neuter the Allied subs. Making them fun to play with but really having no dramatic impact on the campaign. So it is hard to compare. Any of you JFBs who are having trouble controlling Allied subs need only contact my opponent Viperpol for some advice. That dude has got me clamped down...


Well...even AI cannot run ASW as badly as Japanese did in real life. "Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity".

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 9
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