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Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 11:16:20 AM   
HectorOfTroy


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I have watched the Lets play series by JustFYIgaming and my impression is that this game is resembles MOO2 very muc (minus TB battles of course).

Am I correct?

I have been playing Distant Worlds (I love it :)) but I wouldn't mind also having a turn based 4x space game.

Armada 2526 seems like a fun game, but there is also Sword of the stars 2 coiming out as well.

I tried SOTS1, but the limited gameplay options on the galaxy map bored me to death and I just couldn't play the game.

What do you guys think, wait for Sots2 or get armada 2526 with Supernova?
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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 3:03:01 PM   
lordxorn


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While you can pretty much say all new 4x games are influenced by MOO2, because let's face it MOO2 set the gold standard, in my opinion Armada has very few similarities. For instance, the ships are all generic and there is no customization.

The tactical battles are not particularly done well. It just lacks the charisma that MOO2 had, I mean how come all new 4x games forgo a Stellar Converter type of weapon??

So it is really amazing to me that new 4x games will completely miss the standard, as opposed to meeting the standard, THEN adding something different? It is like the whole 4x genre has regressed and not progressed.

That is why Distant Worlds is closest to what I ask for, copy what worked for MOO2 and then add your own innovation. It is just lazy to have generic ships that you could care less about, because there are no new techs you can tweak your designs with and etc..

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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 3:55:10 PM   
Anguille


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Well...i have to disagree with Lordxorn (expect that i also consider Distant Worlds an excellent game). But it's probably because we don't enjoy equally the same things in MOO2. Armada 2526 is very similar to MOO2 (except on the ship design).

What is similar to MOO2:

- Nice looking 2d Strategy map where you don't get lost. (can be very big).
- Very different planets with "specials" on them and trade items.
- An interesting trade system.
- Many races with some who require very different gameplays (not just how to travel through space).
- Diplomacy that makes sense with real alliance and also some betrayals.
- Planets you can build up and specialize.
- A nice tech tree with different choices you have to make.

While SoTs II will probably a good game, i don't expect to see a lot of enhancements on the planet management level. Kerberos is full of warmongers (not bad per se) but that's what you'll get in SoTs II...battles, battles and battles. As an empire builder, it's not enough for me (as a unique game). Armada 2526 gives me what MOO2 gave/gives me...full control on my empire and the option to win without having to kill every race in the game.

Of course, Distant Worlds with the brand new expansion coming out in a couple of weeks, is also a fantastic game. I do believe that Matrix has now the best 2 4x games on the Market.

< Message edited by Anguille -- 10/24/2011 3:59:16 PM >


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Armada 2526 and Distant Worlds: the ultimate space strategy games are HERE in the Matrix

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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 4:17:54 PM   
lordxorn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anguille

Well...i have to disagree with Lordxorn (expect that i also consider Distant Worlds an excellent game). But it's probably because we don't enjoy equally the same things in MOO2. Armada 2526 is very similar to MOO2 (except on the ship design).

What is similar to MOO2:

- Nice looking 2d Strategy map where you don't get lost. (can be very big).
- Very different planets with "specials" on them and trade items.
- An interesting trade system.
- Many races with some who require very different gameplays (not just how to travel through space).
- Diplomacy that makes sense with real alliance and also some betrayals.
- Planets you can build up and specialize.
- A nice tech tree with different choices you have to make.

While SoTs II will probably a good game, i don't expect to see a lot of enhancements on the planet management level. Kerberos is full of warmongers (not bad per se) but that's what you'll get in SoTs II...battles, battles and battles. As an empire builder, it's not enough for me (as a unique game). Armada 2526 gives me what MOO2 gave/gives me...full control on my empire and the option to win without having to kill every race in the game.

Of course, Distant Worlds with the brand new expansion coming out in a couple of weeks, is also a fantastic game. I do believe that Matrix has now the best 2 4x games on the Market.


You bring up great points about the game, but I am sure the OP already knew about them. I was just expressing my concerns with the game and my overall disappointment in the 4x genre as a whole.

However, to be fair I am also an owner of Armada and Supernova and I think it is a solid game on it's own merits. It is just that it never innovated enough to keep me coming back like MOO2 did, and sadly no 4x game since has managed to do that.

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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 4:25:25 PM   
Anguille


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I agree...there has mostly a regression in the genre in the last 10 years but, with little budgets and teams, what Ntronium (Armada 2526) and CodeForce (Distant Worlds) have managed to produce is fantastic and, at least to me, have given me what i hadn't hoped for...games that are as entertaining as MOO 1-3 and Star Trek: Birth of the Federation which are my classics. (like Martok).

If they they had a bigger budget, we would have received even much better games...

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Armada 2526 and Distant Worlds: the ultimate space strategy games are HERE in the Matrix

Pushing it to the limits: an Armada 2526 AAR

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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 4:27:08 PM   
lordxorn


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Let's hope their first games were successful enough to warrant bigger and better sequels. =)

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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 4:34:18 PM   
Anguille


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

Let's hope their first games were successful enough to warrant bigger and better sequels. =)


Indeed...but i do know (and that's all i know) that Ntronium is working on a new and different game so it won't happen so soon....

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Armada 2526 and Distant Worlds: the ultimate space strategy games are HERE in the Matrix

Pushing it to the limits: an Armada 2526 AAR

Lizzie van Zyl RIP

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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 8:16:48 PM   
HectorOfTroy


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So you guys reckon SOTS2 will still have very simplistic empire building layer?

I was reading that they now have trade routes and that the trade will be conducted by private citizens (ala DW). And apparently strategic map is now supposed to feel much more alive.

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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/24/2011 9:10:57 PM   
Anguille


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HectorOfTroy

So you guys reckon SOTS2 will still have very simplistic empire building layer?

I was reading that they now have trade routes and that the trade will be conducted by private citizens (ala DW). And apparently strategic map is now supposed to feel much more alive.


Obviously, i haven't played SotS II so far. I do believe that the strategic map is a lot more enhanced compared to SotS I. Especially Diplomacy will be much deeper. However, it's clear that their main interests are combats. SotS II has a deep ship design/building mod (where you can test you ship designs etc...). So you build up ships/fleets in order to lead them into combat. SotS is Star Wars while Armada 2526 is Star Trek.

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Armada 2526 and Distant Worlds: the ultimate space strategy games are HERE in the Matrix

Pushing it to the limits: an Armada 2526 AAR

Lizzie van Zyl RIP

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RE: Like MOO2? - 10/25/2011 1:40:45 AM   
Tnarg

 

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I agree that MOO2 is the standard for 4x space strategy games. I actually downloaded a copy of it the other week for $2.99 after a long break (I could never get my old CD copy to run properly on any of my newer computers that ran Windows XP and later.) My oh my how far we have come in terms of graphics. On my 24" monitor the ships look like 16 pixel geometric shapes.

Despite the original Nintendo era graphics I have been hooked in and have played several games already. I can't stop! Even with a maximum galaxy size of like 50 stars and 8 max players I have been thoroughly engaged and having a blast and remembering the good ol days of turn based MOO2, Civilization II, Peoples General and such.

Why can't these classic games get an overhaul on graphics. I would be perfectly happy with hi-res 2D graphics. Allow for larger galaxies and more races. Throw in some ability to mod and allow for internet play. Don't change anything else! I would easily pay 30 to 40 bucks for an overhauled classic.

DW is great and it sounds like the new expansion will make it epic. But honestly, I am having more fun playing MOO2.

< Message edited by Tnarg -- 10/25/2011 1:43:25 AM >

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RE: Like MOO2? - 11/5/2011 4:19:10 AM   
Uncle_Joe


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Well now that SotS2 has released and it's an utter trainwreck, it's possible some more folks will come to take a look at Armada. Personally I find Armada to be quite good, but it doesnt always have the 'One More Turn' addiction that MOO2 has to this day.

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RE: Like MOO2? - 11/5/2011 8:56:08 AM   
Gelatinous Cube


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My biggest problem with Armada is the map. It's perfect, except that you'll go blind trying to differentiate who owns what. A mod for that would go a long ways.

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RE: Like MOO2? - 11/6/2011 6:26:53 AM   
martok


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For me, the only real advantage MOO2 had over Armada 2526/Supernova was ship design. Even then, it's not a feature I miss that much.




quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

The tactical battles are not particularly done well. It just lacks the charisma that MOO2 had,

Honestly, I didn't find the battles in MOO2 to be any better. The whole bit about one side getting to go first made them horribly unbalanced IMO.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

My biggest problem with Armada is the map. It's perfect, except that you'll go blind trying to differentiate who owns what. A mod for that would go a long ways.

Have you tried using the "show empire territory" feature on the mini-map? I've long found that to be useful in helping determine who owns what.



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RE: Like MOO2? - 11/6/2011 2:36:51 PM   
Gelatinous Cube


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quote:

ORIGINAL: martok

For me, the only real advantage MOO2 had over Armada 2526/Supernova was ship design. Even then, it's not a feature I miss that much.




quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

The tactical battles are not particularly done well. It just lacks the charisma that MOO2 had,

Honestly, I didn't find the battles in MOO2 to be any better. The whole bit about one side getting to go first made them horribly unbalanced IMO.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

My biggest problem with Armada is the map. It's perfect, except that you'll go blind trying to differentiate who owns what. A mod for that would go a long ways.

Have you tried using the "show empire territory" feature on the mini-map? I've long found that to be useful in helping determine who owns what.




It's so blocky and hard to read, plus on larger maps the colors become redundant, and it's difficult to tell which colors are who. I love Armada with the Xpac, because it fills a niche in my gaming diet that no other game can--that old-school 4x feel with modern sensibilities. The AI is good, the coding is top notch, even the interface is great aside from the whole not being able to differentiate empires easily enough.

It's a big enough problem that I would actually pay money just for a graphical overhaul, but not so big that it prevents me from enjoying this (quite good) game.

(in reply to martok)
Post #: 14
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