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RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc

 
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RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/18/2011 1:11:58 PM   
sanderz

 

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As another "Allies vs AI" only player (so far) thats thinking about taking on the Japanese side this is a really invaluable document - many thanks for all your work in producing this.

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 61
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/18/2011 1:19:26 PM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

As another "Allies vs AI" only player (so far) thats thinking about taking on the Japanese side this is a really invaluable document - many thanks for all your work in producing this.


Thanks - I haven't finalised it yet and was hoping I'd get to do that pretty soon.

Need to:
  • rework the airframe and engine set up for both realistic and unrealistic R&D.
  • Provide save files
  • Complete the timetable info at the end.
  • Talk about the differences with Scen2

    Cheers

    _____________________________

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    (in reply to sanderz)
  • Post #: 62
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/20/2011 11:13:15 AM   
    n01487477


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    Minor changes to the doc and pdf.

    Save file - completed orders up till the airframe sequence
    Scen 1, R&D realistic
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/wpae005.pws


    Will dropbox another once (air/eng) that is completed.

    Slow going due to RL stuff...

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    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 63
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/20/2011 11:21:09 AM   
    sanderz

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    Minor changes to the doc and pdf.

    Save file - completed orders up till the airframe sequence
    Scen 1, R&D realistic
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/wpae005.pws


    Will dropbox another once (air/eng) that is completed.

    Slow going due to RL stuff...


    thanks

    look forward to the completed doc in due course

    on a slightly related subject i seem to remember some time back i was reading something about Japanese (first turn?) strategy # (more military than economic i think) - was this also something you did and if so do you have a link - i looked through the FAQ which had loads of useful stuff but didn't see anything

    # and there may have been one about aircraft production and what what engines/frames to turn on/off - is this what you are going to cover?

    i have just started working through your guide and applying it in game - very helpful, and can't imagine how you guys managed before Tracker - it really helps to get to know how the game works



    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 64
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/20/2011 11:30:38 AM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    Minor changes to the doc and pdf.

    Save file - completed orders up till the airframe sequence
    Scen 1, R&D realistic
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/wpae005.pws


    Will dropbox another once (air/eng) that is completed.

    Slow going due to RL stuff...


    thanks

    look forward to the completed doc in due course

    on a slightly related subject i seem to remember some time back i was reading something about Japanese (first turn?) strategy # (more military than economic i think) - was this also something you did and if so do you have a link - i looked through the FAQ which had loads of useful stuff but didn't see anything

    Probably not me. But I would like to suggest than now PBEM passwords can be changed that some of the more experienced players submit their first turn for analysis. I can see how they probably wouldn't like to do this, as it might reveal too much - but we could make it anonymous.

    quote:

    # and there may have been one about aircraft production and what what engines/frames to turn on/off - is this what you are going to cover?

    Yeah - at present it is not as I want it. I started doing without realistic R&D and I think I should do that first. The info there at the moment is not good enough for me.

    quote:

    i have just started working through your guide and applying it in game - very helpful, and can't imagine how you guys managed before Tracker - it really helps to get to know how the game works

    That's why Floyd and I started making Tracker and we're glad ppl get good use out of it.

    Lastly, one thing I haven't done with the savefile and that is move engineers for port expansions. I did set some rudimentary ASW though.

    Cheers


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    (in reply to sanderz)
    Post #: 65
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/20/2011 1:30:46 PM   
    sanderz

     

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    Hi

    Starting to get some questions now - hope its OK to post here unless you prefer a PM.

    In the Day one task list theres a list of what convoys to set up - however what is the logic behind the Toyahama to Iwaki convoy as its just from one side of the same island to the other?

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 66
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/20/2011 1:36:01 PM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz

    Hi

    Starting to get some questions now - hope its OK to post here unless you prefer a PM.

    In the Day one task list theres a list of what convoys to set up - however what is the logic behind the Toyahama to Iwaki convoy as its just from one side of the same island to the other?

    Oops confusing spelling mistake; I meant Toyohara (Sakhalin) to Iwaki ... thanks for spotting that. [edit] Guess that makes a big difference

    Post any Q's you have here ... but it is getting a bit late PM in Korea now. I will answer sometime though.

    < Message edited by n01487477 -- 11/20/2011 1:38:16 PM >


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    Post #: 67
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/20/2011 1:36:28 PM   
    n01487477


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    double post ...

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    Post #: 68
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/20/2011 2:24:07 PM   
    sanderz

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    Post any Q's you have here ... but it is getting a bit late PM in Korea now. I will answer sometime though.


    No probs - am off to my sons now anyway for a bit of boardgaming and then to watch the Packers go to 10-0 against Tampa Bay :D

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 69
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/20/2011 3:23:01 PM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    Post any Q's you have here ... but it is getting a bit late PM in Korea now. I will answer sometime though.


    No probs - am off to my sons now anyway for a bit of boardgaming and then to watch the Packers go to 10-0 against Tampa Bay :D


    Finished for the night ... just uploaded a new version with the plane factories done - I hope. I decided to go moderately light with it and not to dictate too much. Plug in the numbers tomorrow and then do the engines.

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    Post #: 70
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 2:02:55 AM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    Post any Q's you have here ... but it is getting a bit late PM in Korea now. I will answer sometime though.


    No probs - am off to my sons now anyway for a bit of boardgaming and then to watch the Packers go to 10-0 against Tampa Bay :D


    Finished for the night ... just uploaded a new version with the plane factories done - I hope. I decided to go moderately light with it and not to dictate too much. Plug in the numbers tomorrow and then do the engines.

    OK - added another save and finished engine production as well as changing the airframe build.

    Airframes complete
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/wpae006.pws

    I think this is almost complete apart from some small stuff... any other suggestions before I wipe my hands of this ?

    < Message edited by n01487477 -- 11/21/2011 2:06:05 AM >


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    Post #: 71
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 2:09:05 AM   
    n01487477


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    A fair amount of work went into this doc, so can I have some of you to look at it and think about errors, changes and additions.

    Thanks

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    Post #: 72
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 7:35:17 AM   
    sanderz

     

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    Hi

    A quick tracker question.

    For example - if i accellerate a ship and save the game BUT do NOT end the term - should the ship show up as 'accelerated' in Tracker, or should it still say 'Normal' because the turn hasn't run.  (I seem to be getting the former i.e. no immediate change to tracker)

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 73
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 7:42:37 AM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz

    Hi

    A quick tracker question.

    For example - if i accellerate a ship and save the game BUT do NOT end the term - should the ship show up as 'accelerated' in Tracker, or should it still say 'Normal' because the turn hasn't run.  (I seem to be getting the former i.e. no immediate change to tracker)


    Should definitely show up as accelerated. Sure you're loading the right turn ?

    Otherwise - I'll PM my email and you can send me the turn.

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    Post #: 74
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 7:43:33 AM   
    sanderz

     

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    Another quick question

    In the Engines section there is a column headed PI Factory Use (R&D) - what does this stand for?

    And

    The figures shown for the HA 35 are 514(91) - what do these numbers represent and why do i have a figure in brackets (R&D?) when its an engine thats being produced not researched


    Apologies if i am asking the obvious here but its all pretty new to me

    (in reply to sanderz)
    Post #: 75
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 7:49:18 AM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz

    Another quick question

    In the Engines section there is a column headed PI Factory Use (R&D) - what does this stand for?

    And

    The figures shown for the HA 35 are 514(91) - what do these numbers represent and why do i have a figure in brackets (R&D?) when its an engine thats being produced not researched


    Apologies if i am asking the obvious here but its all pretty new to me


    Maybe a quick read of this will help ... The R&D means for airframes that are not yet producing ... Look to the bottom of this page.

    https://sites.google.com/site/witptracker/air-production

    Actually, I usually use the Engine Planning popup more these days

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    Post #: 76
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 7:49:27 AM   
    sanderz

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz

    Hi

    A quick tracker question.

    For example - if i accellerate a ship and save the game BUT do NOT end the term - should the ship show up as 'accelerated' in Tracker, or should it still say 'Normal' because the turn hasn't run.  (I seem to be getting the former i.e. no immediate change to tracker)


    Should definitely show up as accelerated. Sure you're loading the right turn ?

    Otherwise - I'll PM my email and you can send me the turn.


    Thatwill be good news for me when i sort out what i hvae done wrong as planning was impossible before.

    My properties file looks like this:-

    Dir=[C:\Matrix Games\WITP_AE_MODS] I am running a babes lite mod
    GameType=[0]
    Side=[0]
    Password=[abc123]
    SaveFile=[wpae005.pws]
    SaveMode=[0]
    Header=[wpae005]
    TurnCycle=[1]

    and i have the wpae005.pws file in the same directory

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 77
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 7:51:41 AM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanderz

    Hi

    A quick tracker question.

    For example - if i accellerate a ship and save the game BUT do NOT end the term - should the ship show up as 'accelerated' in Tracker, or should it still say 'Normal' because the turn hasn't run.  (I seem to be getting the former i.e. no immediate change to tracker)


    Should definitely show up as accelerated. Sure you're loading the right turn ?

    Otherwise - I'll PM my email and you can send me the turn.


    Thatwill be good news for me when i sort out what i hvae done wrong as planning was impossible before.

    My properties file looks like this:-

    Dir=[C:\Matrix Games\WITP_AE_MODS] I am running a babes lite mod
    GameType=[0]
    Side=[0]
    Password=[abc123]
    SaveFile=[wpae005.pws]
    SaveMode=[0]
    Header=[wpae005]
    TurnCycle=[1]

    and i have the wpae005.pws file in the same directory


    And you deleted the DB before you read the turn (if you had a previous one loaded), and the savefile is definitely the one ?

    I'll PM my email addy.

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    Post #: 78
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 8:22:00 AM   
    sanderz

     

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    For the benefit of any other dumbasses out there like me - don't forget this bit!!!!!

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477
    And you deleted the DB before you read the turn (if you had a previous one loaded).............



    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 79
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 3:24:52 PM   
    Wirraway_Ace


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    A fair amount of work went into this doc, so can I have some of you to look at it and think about errors, changes and additions.

    Thanks

    Damien,

    thanks for all your effort! I will take a look at it this week.

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 80
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 3:35:55 PM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    A fair amount of work went into this doc, so can I have some of you to look at it and think about errors, changes and additions.

    Thanks

    Damien,

    thanks for all your effort! I will take a look at it this week.

    Wirra,
    Any feedback would be appreciated.
    Also looking forward to being back for a cold one and Ribeye at the Story Bridge come Feb.
    Cheers

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    Post #: 81
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 3:45:16 PM   
    SuluSea


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    Hi Damian, again great resource. I feel I have plenty of merchant shipyard points to burn right now I've been accelerating all tankers until they start bulding at the 10 threshold, I'm not a big fan of paying 3x for anything but the DDs with radar but am looking to adjust if there's are options that are better suited. Should I accelerate TKs all the way through?

    _____________________________


    ”How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!” ~ Samuel Adams

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    Post #: 82
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 3:57:20 PM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SuluSea

    Hi Damian, again great resource. I feel I have plenty of merchant shipyard points to burn right now I've been accelerating all tankers until they start bulding at the 10 threshold, I'm not a big fan of paying 3x for anything but the DDs with radar but am looking to adjust if there's are options that are better suited. Should I accelerate TKs all the way through?

    Sulu -
    I agree with you, paying the toll is a bit hard to swallow.I guess in the end it depends on your strategic situation and how many tankers you've lost.I usually accelerate until normal build and then leave them. Having said that if the enemy were bearing down and I needed to shift as much fuel/oil as possible from the SRA. I'd pay for some of the bigger ones.

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    Post #: 83
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/21/2011 4:02:59 PM   
    SuluSea


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SuluSea

    Hi Damian, again great resource. I feel I have plenty of merchant shipyard points to burn right now I've been accelerating all tankers until they start bulding at the 10 threshold, I'm not a big fan of paying 3x for anything but the DDs with radar but am looking to adjust if there's are options that are better suited. Should I accelerate TKs all the way through?

    Sulu -
    I agree with you, paying the toll is a bit hard to swallow.I guess in the end it depends on your strategic situation and how many tankers you've lost.I usually accelerate until normal build and then leave them. Having said that if the enemy were bearing down and I needed to shift as much fuel/oil as possible from the SRA. I'd pay for some of the bigger ones.


    Since I haven't taken this into account I'll file this one away for later use. Thanks!!

    _____________________________


    ”How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!” ~ Samuel Adams

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    Post #: 84
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/22/2011 1:32:41 AM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SuluSea


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: SuluSea

    Hi Damian, again great resource. I feel I have plenty of merchant shipyard points to burn right now I've been accelerating all tankers until they start bulding at the 10 threshold, I'm not a big fan of paying 3x for anything but the DDs with radar but am looking to adjust if there's are options that are better suited. Should I accelerate TKs all the way through?

    Sulu -
    I agree with you, paying the toll is a bit hard to swallow.I guess in the end it depends on your strategic situation and how many tankers you've lost.I usually accelerate until normal build and then leave them. Having said that if the enemy were bearing down and I needed to shift as much fuel/oil as possible from the SRA. I'd pay for some of the bigger ones.


    Since I haven't taken this into account I'll file this one away for later use. Thanks!!

    One other point to consider.
    Durability 30 tanker, 300 days to build normal/ 150 accel..
    normal build = 9000HI
    Accel build = 13500HI

    Cargo 11600 Liquid
  • As fuel = 5800 HI points; so 2 trips basically pays for itself on normal. 3 trips as accelerated.
  • As Oil = 11600*9 = 104400 fuel (paid in full)
    Not to say that you should be hauling Oil ... Fuel is what is needed.

    Gets a bit more complex with Accel during the >dur*10 <dur*30 phase (queued)
  • Accel Queued + Normal build = (dur*((delay-(dur*10))/2) +(dur*(dur*10))
  • Accel Queued + Accel Build =(dur*((delay-(dur*10))/2)+(dur*3)*((dur*10)/2))

    So the maths with a ship that has just become queued (the extreme case)
    queued & build time = 900 days; .
    1. (30*(900-(30*10))/2) + (30*(30*10)) = 9000 + 9000 = 18000HI (3 trips)
    time = 600 days
    2. (30*(900-(30*10))/2) + (30*3)*((30*10)/2) = 9000+13500 = 22500HI (4 trips)
    time = 450 days

    So is it worth it? That's for you to decide...


    < Message edited by n01487477 -- 11/22/2011 1:39:54 AM >


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  • Post #: 85
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/22/2011 2:57:35 PM   
    seille

     

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    Damian,

    I did not know that i can downgrade my R&D factories to speed up repairs. Like A6M5 fac -> A6M3.
    This is nice. The .pdf is very helpful file. Many thanks.


    Why that many D3A2 ? Want to go along the upgrade path to get the D5Y1 ?
    I wondered because you also go for the Judy.
    Many of your R&D plants are not used. Do you plan to increase the number of R&D plants for some planes later to speed them up ?


    < Message edited by seille -- 11/22/2011 3:14:06 PM >

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 86
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/22/2011 3:22:44 PM   
    n01487477


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: seille

    Damian,

    I did not know that i can downgrade my R&D factories to speed up repairs. Like A6M5 fac -> A6M3.
    This is nice. The .pdf is very helpful file. Many thanks.


    Why that many D3A2 ? Want to go along the upgrade path to get the D5Y1 ?
    I wondered because you also go for the Judy.
    Many of your R&D plants are not used. Do you plan to increase the number of R&D plants for some planes later to speed them up ?

    The plane build is for realistic R&D and I was just looking to get these planes early. Certainly not thinking of producing that many - as all these plants won't be allowed to produce.

    My list of build would be more complete than this. I left all those R&D plants for the player to decide what they'd like to do. I don't want to dictate a complete work up on it.

    This is very much a start doc, not a complete economic war plan.

    Thanks Seille.

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    Post #: 87
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/22/2011 3:32:24 PM   
    seille

     

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    Mhh, i would personally be very interested in a COMPLETE R&D plan with PDU on and realistic R&D.
    Especially what midwar fighters and bombers you would focuss at and how many factories you would use.
    And if you would invest in any late war planes like jets or completely ignore them.

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 88
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/25/2011 10:14:54 PM   
    Mac Linehan

     

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    Damien -

    Off for Thanksgiving Break, so buckled down to tweak my Japanese economic planning using your guide as a reference.

    The entire guide - draft or not - is very helpful. Here are a few areas that were of particular use to me:

    > R&D - after weeks of forum study, your guide and remarks finished the job. For example, while I knew that the next airframe in line (A6M2 > A6M3) could be accelerated, I did not grasp the concept that the A6M3 could be changed to the A6M3a (carrier capable) and thus be skipped entirely. Yes, very basic (but important!) stuff, your chart gave a clear visual of how to do it.

    > Resource Convoys: Again, after time spent studying the forums, your explanation of Port Load and Ship Load Capacity (plus all the other listed factors) brought the whole procedure into focus - I now have an solid basis upon which to make an informed choice as to which hulls best match each port.

    > What is the formula to determine "Ship Cargo Size (and Cargo / Fuel efficiency"? Yes, I am somewhat "math challenged" <sigh>.

    All of what you have written has helped - immensely. Please stick with it - your audience awaits!!

    A Math Wannabe, Mac

    < Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 11/25/2011 10:47:33 PM >


    _____________________________

    LAV-25 2147

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 89
    RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 11/26/2011 1:52:32 AM   
    n01487477


    Posts: 4717
    Joined: 2/21/2006
    Status: offline

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

    Damien -

    Off for Thanksgiving Break, so buckled down to tweak my Japanese economic planning using your guide as a reference.

    The entire guide - draft or not - is very helpful. Here are a few areas that were of particular use to me:

    > R&D - after weeks of forum study, your guide and remarks finished the job. For example, while I knew that the next airframe in line (A6M2 > A6M3) could be accelerated, I did not grasp the concept that the A6M3 could be changed to the A6M3a (carrier capable) and thus be skipped entirely. Yes, very basic (but important!) stuff, your chart gave a clear visual of how to do it.

    Hi Mac -
    Thanks.

    Remember though because you are playing Babes Lite(iirc), there might be different upgrades according to the mod designer compared to this work up for Scen1. Best checked before proceeding.
    quote:


    > Resource Convoys: Again, after time spent studying the forums, your explanation of Port Load and Ship Load Capacity (plus all the other listed factors) brought the whole procedure into focus - I now have an solid basis upon which to make an informed choice as to which hulls best match each port.

    > What is the formula to determine "Ship Cargo Size (and Cargo / Fuel efficiency"? Yes, I am somewhat "math challenged" <sigh>.

    Cargo size is determined by the editor - so no formula (except those converted to -t)

    Cargo Eff.
    Eff = Speed * cargo * endurance / fuel
    (Although I may change this to hexes.)
    quote:


    All of what you have written has helped - immensely. Please stick with it - your audience awaits!!

    A Math Wannabe, Mac

    I will continue to refine and add to, but not sure what else needs to be fleshed out as a start doc.

    Oh & I'm not great at Math either.

    Have a good weekend

    _____________________________

    -Damian-
    EconDoc
    TrackerAE
    Tutes&Java

    (in reply to Mac Linehan)
    Post #: 90
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