Matrix Games Forums

Sign of for the Pike and Shot Beta!More Games are Coming to Steam! Deal of the Week: Combat Command Return to the Moon on October 31st! Commander: The Great War iPad Wallpapers Generals of the Great WarDeal of the Week Panzer CorpsNew Strategy Titles Join the FamilyTablet Version of Qvadriga gets new patchNew Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge Update
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 10/21/2011 2:04:49 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
Hi guys -
I'm putting together a document to help new players get to grips with the Japanese economic system. I think some of it is very verbose and technical. Probably a huge turn off, which is not what I wanted.

Maybe some of it needs culling or rewriting. Anyway, it isn't final yet. And when it is, I hope that the checklist idea that I've just started will be all that most need to get something started. The rest of it could be read at one's pleasure for understanding.
Doc
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/Draft.doc
Pdf
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/Draft.pdf

Comments and suggestions welcome. Corrections too. I know we all do things slightly differently. Please take this in the spirit that I offer it. A guide for beginners. (Even if it needs to have a re-write to become one)

Regards,

[edit] Noted that the pic's were a bit bad so re-did them. The Pdf looks better than the doc version.
[edit] Just updated the doc a bit... will continue to update ...
[update] Save file - completed orders up till the airframe sequence
Scen 1, R&D realistic
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/wpae005.pws
Airframes complete
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/wpae006.pws

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 11/21/2011 2:04:42 AM >


_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java
Post #: 1
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/21/2011 2:14:03 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
I'll check it out today. Thanks!

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 2
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/21/2011 2:15:58 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1413
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
Any chance of a .pdf or say a .htm?

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 3
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/21/2011 2:20:43 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
Erkki, PM me your email and I'll send you a PDF.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 4
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 3:30:26 AM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 1925
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline
Hey Damian,

I like what you've got going so far - it's a very good start. When you are talking about convoys I think you might want to put in a paragraph or two regarding suplies & spoilage.

Maybe another paragraph regarding supplies needed for troops (movment & combat) and Air HQ needs for torpedoes?

I liked your info regarding fuel mileage. I've never considered that before. I was more interested in making sure I had the right convoy size for the job and I was trying to keep most of the convoys using a similar endurance and speed.

TTFN,

Mike


_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 5
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 5:47:26 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

Hey Damian,

I like what you've got going so far - it's a very good start. When you are talking about convoys I think you might want to put in a paragraph or two regarding supplies & spoilage.

OK - yeah should have done. Thx.
quote:


Maybe another paragraph regarding supplies needed for troops (movment & combat) and Air HQ needs for torpedoes?

Didn't want to get too much into that - but I think it is worth mentioning.
quote:


I liked your info regarding fuel mileage. I've never considered that before. I was more interested in making sure I had the right convoy size for the job and I was trying to keep most of the convoys using a similar endurance and speed.

TTFN,

Mike


Update both the doc and pdf - as I felt I got the Convoy system a little too balanced & short to begin with.Made a mistake with the Shanghai-Sasebo run and fuel measurements were a little off. This is all testing for a Tracker cargo screenie. Anyway, I really wanted to haul out some Res, not just maintain levels ...
Cheers,

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 6
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 6:13:09 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Damian -

Really good stuff - I shall read it carefully!

Mac

Edit:

Just did a first read thru - a first class piece of work. I will use it as a reference, Thank You for all your work - please keep at it.

Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 10/22/2011 7:38:40 AM >


_____________________________

LAV-25 2147

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 7
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 11:48:35 AM   
SierraJuliet


Posts: 578
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
Good work Damian.  I'll be including this in my list of material to get my head around.

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 8
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 11:53:51 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SierraJuliet

Good work Damian.  I'll be including this in my list of material to get my head around.

Thanks S.J -
It's been a while ...

Come back when it's complete...

Cheers - hope all is well.

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 10/22/2011 11:55:11 AM >


_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to SierraJuliet)
Post #: 9
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 2:48:13 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 829
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline
Thanks Damien - This is great stuff for JFBs. I'm looking forward to your updates.

Regards, Paul

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 10
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 2:50:23 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2053
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
Very nice work Damian. Thanks!

The focus on fuel in resource convoys makes too much sense and is an avenue that I haven't given much consideration to better conserve fuel.


_____________________________


”How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!” ~ Samuel Adams

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 11
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 6:04:04 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3115
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline
Thanks there Damian, as this is real handy, especially for an old dunce think me.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


When you see the Southern Cross, For the first time
You understand now, Why you came this way

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 12
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 6:31:11 PM   
USS America


Posts: 16055
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline
Thanks for putting this together, Damien.  Maybe this will be the boost I need to start looking at the world from the Dark Side.  

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to DivePac88)
Post #: 13
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 8:16:43 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Hi, Damien!

I am playing Babes v08 C ("The C version also includes a modified ship Class file (wpcxxx.dat) that substantially reduces the cargo capacities of ships"). Thus just a gut feeling that I should build as many ships as possible. Would you have any thoughts on how much I should expand my MSYards to cover the cost of a full build plan?

I will do the homework, and read the tracker shipbuilding documentation, to get a better understanding of how it all works.

Any thoughts are very much appreciated.

Mac



_____________________________

LAV-25 2147

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 14
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 8:19:30 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Hi, Damien!

I am playing Babes v08 C ("The C version also includes a modified ship Class file (wpcxxx.dat) that substantially reduces the cargo capacities of ships"). Thus just a gut feeling that I should build as many ships as possible. Would you have any thoughts on how much I should expand my MSYards to cover the cost of a full build plan?



Assuming production is the same as stock (I suspect it's different) you would be good with what you have but don't accelerate anything using merchant points. Tracker shows you a nice graph that will tell you if you have enough points to cover all the ships.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 15
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 8:47:41 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
Hi, Damien!

I am playing Babes v08 C ("The C version also includes a modified ship Class file (wpcxxx.dat) that substantially reduces the cargo capacities of ships"). Thus just a gut feeling that I should build as many ships as possible. Would you have any thoughts on how much I should expand my MSYards to cover the cost of a full build plan?

I will do the homework, and read the tracker shipbuilding documentation, to get a better understanding of how it all works.

Any thoughts are very much appreciated.

Mac

Don't know if this will help you or not Mac, but the merchie cargo caps of Babes C were reduced by a uniform 33% (i.e., a 6000 goes to 4000, a 3000 goes to 2000, etc...). Maybe Tracker captures this but if not, it's just a mental 2/3 kinda thing.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 16
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/22/2011 9:05:18 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Mike,

Thank You, - good advice.

JWE -

Orig:

"Don't know if this will help you or not Mac, but the merchie cargo caps of Babes C were reduced by a uniform 33% (i.e., a 6000 goes to 4000, a 3000 goes to 2000, etc...). Maybe Tracker captures this but if not, it's just a mental 2/3 kinda thing."

JWE - very clear and concise - Thank You!

Mac

_____________________________

LAV-25 2147

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 17
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/23/2011 12:56:13 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
Hi, Damien!

I am playing Babes v08 C ("The C version also includes a modified ship Class file (wpcxxx.dat) that substantially reduces the cargo capacities of ships"). Thus just a gut feeling that I should build as many ships as possible. Would you have any thoughts on how much I should expand my MSYards to cover the cost of a full build plan?

I will do the homework, and read the tracker shipbuilding documentation, to get a better understanding of how it all works.

Any thoughts are very much appreciated.

Mac

Don't know if this will help you or not Mac, but the merchie cargo caps of Babes C were reduced by a uniform 33% (i.e., a 6000 goes to 4000, a 3000 goes to 2000, etc...). Maybe Tracker captures this but if not, it's just a mental 2/3 kinda thing.

Yeah it does ... Thanks to all for your comments. Back to work tomorrow so I'll work on it again in my spare time and release it again later..

Cheers -

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 18
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/23/2011 1:28:00 PM   
cavalry

 

Posts: 1827
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Blackboys East Sussex UK
Status: online
I hope this kind of thing makes it into the new manual due Christmas:)

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 19
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/23/2011 5:54:35 PM   
dorjun driver


Posts: 640
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Port Townsend: hex 210,51
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I hope this kind of thing makes it into the new manual due Christmas:)

Is Hell due to freeze over at that time of year?

(in reply to cavalry)
Post #: 20
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/23/2011 6:09:23 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4518
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
Thank you VERY much!

My time is too limited to get to Jap Economy by learning by doing. Highly apprechiated!

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 21
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/23/2011 9:25:14 PM   
hartwig.modrow

 

Posts: 786
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline
Damian,

thank you so much for drafting this. It may help to bring me to the dark side, so I'll finally be able to serve the emperor .

Hartwig

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 22
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/24/2011 5:02:01 PM   
Graymane


Posts: 499
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Bellevue, NE
Status: offline
I liked your analysis of fuel usage. It took me awhile to work it out. Do you think it might be more useful to show fuel efficiency as "Miles Per Endurance" instead of the inverse?

On the exercise for putting together the shipping, I got kinda got lost starting on page 7. You talk about ports, then about engineers, then back to ships and I more or less got lost trying to figure out why some of the decisions were being made. I'm sure the experienced Jap players could follow along well, but not me

Overall, it is a great guide though! On the other hand, it reinforces why I'm still playing the allies

(in reply to hartwig.modrow)
Post #: 23
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/24/2011 9:11:38 PM   
5thGuardsTankArmy


Posts: 89
Joined: 1/23/2011
Status: offline

(in reply to Graymane)
Post #: 24
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/24/2011 10:56:50 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 949
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: Nemours, France
Status: offline
Hi Damian,

Very interesting stuff, thanks a lot.

About convoys, I think it is important to note that whereas fuel efficiency (cargo.miles / fuel use) plays an important role for long shipping lanes, speed is just as crucial. Faster convoys mean quicker turnaround, less ships in the lane, and less fuel burnt. This makes fast ships like the Kyushus even more efficient than CM/F ratios suggest (and slow boats like the Gozan even worse than they seem).

This said, speed and fuel usage only matter for long lanes (which one would try to minimize anyway). For short trips, transit time (and fuel use) is dominated by loading/unloading costs, which favour small ships over large ones (in general the smaller the ships, the faster they load).

And since a large fraction of resources move over very short lanes (Korea and Hokkaido), I believe the most important decisions at game start revolve around the allocation of the small xAK and large xAKL. Limiting factors, there, seem to be Honshu port handling limits (eg Ominato).

Francois


< Message edited by fcharton -- 10/24/2011 11:01:47 PM >

(in reply to 5thGuardsTankArmy)
Post #: 25
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/25/2011 1:55:20 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

Hi Damian,

Very interesting stuff, thanks a lot.

About convoys, I think it is important to note that whereas fuel efficiency (cargo.miles / fuel use) plays an important role for long shipping lanes, speed is just as crucial. Faster convoys mean quicker turnaround, less ships in the lane, and less fuel burnt. This makes fast ships like the Kyushus even more efficient than CM/F ratios suggest (and slow boats like the Gozan even worse than they seem).

This said, speed and fuel usage only matter for long lanes (which one would try to minimize anyway). For short trips, transit time (and fuel use) is dominated by loading/unloading costs, which favour small ships over large ones (in general the smaller the ships, the faster they load).

And since a large fraction of resources move over very short lanes (Korea and Hokkaido), I believe the most important decisions at game start revolve around the allocation of the small xAK and large xAKL. Limiting factors, there, seem to be Honshu port handling limits (eg Ominato).

Francois


Thanks Francois,
I had considered this (the same as you), just hadn't got around to putting pen to paper and fleshing it out more. I'll definitely include some type of speed/transit time info into the final doc.

Thanks again -


_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 26
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/25/2011 1:26:38 PM   
Graymane


Posts: 499
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Bellevue, NE
Status: offline
On other thing I'm just not grokking,

quote:

The table above shows you the pertinent efficiency info Fuel/Mile and
cargo(F/M). Higher numbers are better.


Why are higher numbers better for Fuel/Mile? Wouldn't lower numbers be better? What the heck am I missing?

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 27
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/25/2011 1:44:37 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Graymane

On other thing I'm just not grokking,

quote:

The table above shows you the pertinent efficiency info Fuel/Mile and
cargo(F/M). Higher numbers are better.


Why are higher numbers better for Fuel/Mile? Wouldn't lower numbers be better? What the heck am I missing?

Yes - I made a mistake ... changed ...

The table above shows you the pertinent efficiency info Fuel/Mile and cargo(F/M). Higher numbers are better for Cargo(F/M) and lower is better for fuel/mile.

This is a draft doc, so thanks for the comments and suggestions before.

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to Graymane)
Post #: 28
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/25/2011 8:14:02 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
Why fuel/mile and not fuel/hex. I think in terms of hexes. Maybe I'm just an oddball though....

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 29
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/25/2011 11:29:26 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Why fuel/mile and not fuel/hex. I think in terms of hexes. Maybe I'm just an oddball though....

In Tracker I have both - just haven't updated this in the doc ...

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.119