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Escorts - 10/20/2011 4:26:22 PM   
PizzaDeOveja


Posts: 52
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Hi there
I just planed my second raid yesterday, after the 1 day tutorial, with a glorious raid on ploetsi. I completely failed assigning escorts and all but 1 raid ended up over the target without their escorts.

Although the manual tells us that we should calculate and plan the raids, as usual with most games it doesn't really tell you how to that and so... I find it next to impossible to do with the TOT constantly changing, and not knowing when the fighters are going to return. You dont even know when the planes are going to be back at the airport! I had to guess so my recon fighters landed before the bombers took off.

I suppose Im missing some data that allows you to select the delays properly and adjust them so your fighters follow the bombers all the way thru but I've read the manual 2 times already and I cant find it.

How do you guys manage to have your raids escorted?
HELP DESPERATELY NEEDED, as I think I just lost more than 134 planes the first day of an 8 day campaign...ouch!


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The Rules of War? I'll give you a lesson, sir, about the Rules of War...
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RE: Escorts - 10/21/2011 12:15:52 PM   
PizzaDeOveja


Posts: 52
Joined: 10/20/2011
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What??? No help!?¿?¿?
you will be responsible for the carnage that is going to happen tonight as soon as I get back from work!
Hundreds of my glorious crewmen wont see their home thx to all of you!
Shame! shame on you!

(in reply to PizzaDeOveja)
Post #: 2
RE: Escorts - 10/21/2011 2:03:48 PM   
ecwgcx


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When you assign fighter to escort you will see some green lines along the path the bombers take. By adjusting the take off time the lines will move up or down the bomber lines. Important to nmote is not all fighters will be able to escort all the way. If a group is flying from an airfield a good distance away they might not be able to do much.
What I usually do is pick my target, set all IP's, wayponts etc, pick my lead unit and strike force and then make use of the follow button. To have a decent fighter escort I will pick targets in France and the Low Countries early in the war because the fighters don't have the legs, yet.

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RE: Escorts - 10/21/2011 4:42:40 PM   
PizzaDeOveja


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Oh! Ic. First escort mission I didn't pay any attention to them lines, in fact I dont even remember seeing them! I hope the range of my figters isnt so small that cant get anywere near the target. At least those p-38 could because they manage to pull a daunting sweep over the target. Anyways, if those lines represent ranges with extra fuel, once combat starts as drop tanks are...well...dropped, I guess them lines would be redrawn and alas...again my glorious b-24 will be alone over the target.
Damn the uncertainties of BTR!


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Post #: 4
RE: Escorts - 10/21/2011 4:54:15 PM   
ecwgcx


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That's nothing, I've taken hours to plan the Mother of All Raids, a single Shock and Awe day of steel rain only to watch EVERYTHING come apart because of bad weather over the fighter bases. My advise is to start slow, give your computer pilots (and you) time to gain experience. Draw the LW out to play where you have the advantages. Might not win a short scenario but would be smart for the full war scenario. You can also play with Close escort and High Escort and see which does a better job. Did I mention I hate the weather

Good Bombing
Greg

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Post #: 5
RE: Escorts - 10/21/2011 5:04:46 PM   
PizzaDeOveja


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hahaha
Excellent tip Greg!
Well I'm playing the 1st oil campaign so I'm guessing I will have good weather over Romania for the 8 days of the campaign. I did try the historic low altitude bombing run here but my dastardly b-24's got shredded so I will stick to high altitude and try that glorious exploit I read in the forum about doing a fighter sweep over the Luftwaffe airports just above the range of the 37mm...

I read yesterday from a former b-17 pilot that apparently he didn't remember one sortie in which at least a portion of the bombing run didn't have some overcast somewhere, so I guess the game is pretty accurate if it keeps screwing up your glorious bombing plans with some stinkin' random clouds.

Damn BTR's historical accuracy!


EDIT: Oh zit! I just read in the link that the historic mission was a total failure and a carnage!
DAMN BTR's historical acuracy!


< Message edited by PizzaDeOveja -- 10/21/2011 5:12:33 PM >


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The Rules of War? I'll give you a lesson, sir, about the Rules of War...

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RE: Escorts - 10/21/2011 5:49:49 PM   
simovitch


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Re: escorts,
being able to drag those green escort-timing paths along the bombing route is essential for effective mission planning. For long range missions have a fighter group cover the outbound route, and another cover the return route.

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simovitch


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RE: Escorts - 10/21/2011 10:41:39 PM   
JeffK


Posts: 5150
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From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!
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I would like to see the ability to plan a Time on target, which then works backward to a time for the form up point.
But Matrix isnt interested in this game anymore so its not happening.


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RE: Escorts - 10/23/2011 1:03:40 PM   
Jimbo123

 

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I think that is a little unfair JeffK. HS and Harley intended to update and fix the orginal BTR game by Talonsoft "RIP". Much of the code is unchangeable but most of us think they did a awesome job. They have promised an update but sometimes life gets in the way. Matrix to my knowledge only agreed to publish the update and make sure the remake met their standards for a releaseable game. They both love the game and HS "hardsarge" posts here often.

The real shame is that nobody will take on a complete design on the subject using todays tech! One could always imagine!!

Jimbo

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Post #: 9
RE: Escorts - 10/24/2011 12:27:18 AM   
JeffK


Posts: 5150
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From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimbo123

I think that is a little unfair JeffK. HS and Harley intended to update and fix the orginal BTR game by Talonsoft "RIP". Much of the code is unchangeable but most of us think they did a awesome job. They have promised an update but sometimes life gets in the way. Matrix to my knowledge only agreed to publish the update and make sure the remake met their standards for a releaseable game. They both love the game and HS "hardsarge" posts here often.

The real shame is that nobody will take on a complete design on the subject using todays tech! One could always imagine!!

Jimbo


The real shame is that Matrix "sponsors" something that they fail to follow through with. I have little problem with the result Harley & Hard Sarge got out of a 1990's engine.

Matrix should have done better.

Too often, Matrix pass off a "mod" (War Plan Orange) or upgrade (ED BTR) as the latest thing since sliced bread, and do little to support it.

But if you look at the list of games on the forum, probably 1 in 10 is any good and the rest slowly rust away.

ALSO, IMHO the best games by Matrix are full of user suggestions, usually bring more and more detail and accuracy and to Matrix a far more marketable product. In WITP/WITPAE many impossible suggestion found a way of being incorporated.

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Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

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Post #: 10
RE: Escorts - 10/24/2011 8:42:18 AM   
PizzaDeOveja


Posts: 52
Joined: 10/20/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch

Re: escorts,
being able to drag those green escort-timing paths along the bombing route is essential for effective mission planning. For long range missions have a fighter group cover the outbound route, and another cover the return route.


OH! Another excellent tip I will add to my book and claim to have to me in my sleep hehehehe...

The glorious tips of the community DID manage to improve a big deal my escorting efforts, although I did find out after studying and AI planed bombing run, that the real problem I was having was that I was planning my bombing runs at 7500 feet...In my last bombing run at that altitude over ploetsi it was so much a shooting gallery(I think the bombers were like 15 to 30 minutes over the refineries, in the same ex taking AA) that I had to endure 30 minutes of agonizing snail speed bomber return to base in which each second, and I mean each second, one of my damaged bombers crashed. It soon ceased to be painful and went into the uncharted realms of ridicule!

_____________________________


The Rules of War? I'll give you a lesson, sir, about the Rules of War...

(in reply to simovitch)
Post #: 11
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