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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

 
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/15/2012 5:58:11 PM   
terje439


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Turn 171

Overall
We are slowing down. As a result I have no option but to reduce the number of attacks and move units to the rear for some rest and refit. Fatigue levels in the 40-60 range is no good. As a result we only manage 19 attacks this turn, for 5 held and 14 retreats. As I moved one stack one hex too far last turn, the Axis immediately make good of the oppertunity and launch an attack, scoring a retreat. Losses this turn are reported at;
Axis : 63.000 troops and 225 AFVs
USSR : 109.000 troops and 501 AFVs
With 166.000 reporting to the manpower pool, it ends at 4.920.

Units
3 TACs are sent to the reserves. As we are not allowed to build more units, we spend 50 points on SUs this turn. Alot of units are also moved to the rear for some rest and refitting. According to the ledgers, our forces grew by 60.000 troops this turn.

Partisans
23 are left on the map after the Axis force 5 of our guys to retreat. The remaining units manage 8 sabotague missions. Our pilots however can only be bothered to make 3 supply drops this turn.






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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/15/2012 6:34:00 PM   
Flaviusx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

172 Rifle Corps seems like overkill there, too. There are about 100 hexes of frontage straight-line, so max 130-ish.

IMO, Corps should never man the front-lines, it's way more efficient to use Rifle Divisions. You should have 100-ish Rifle Divisions still, but much Fewer Corps. They are offensive formations.


Partially disagree. It's completely fine to dump all your rifle divisions into a corps.

However, using an entire corps for mere passive defense of one given hex is bad economy of force: split it up into 3 and use the breakdowns for to defend 3 single hexes. You can always reform the corps later if necessary.

In general (not just in this game) I'm seeing very poor economy of force in the late game from Soviets. They are not massing in limited sectors and are defending with too much in others. There's a bad tendency to spread out the Red Army more or less evenly along the front. The only way the Soviets can ever get things moving is by massing on important parts of the fron in great depth and launching attacks in echelon. Merely attacking along the entire length of the front and hoping to gradually attrit the Germans isn't enough nor particularly imaginative. This is no way to get the Red Army to Berlin in timely fashion.

Pick a good spot on the front. Pile everything you've got on it, blast a hole open, and pour the reserves through. When I mean mass, I mean mass, put more or less all your artillery and mobile stuff along with a disproportionate amount of rifle corps and drill a hole. Attack in echelon, that is to say, have forces available to launch multiple attacks on this sector of the front, and to exploit gaps in the line. If you're doing this right, you will piled up 3-4 hexes deep in the area of concentration with all your bad boys.

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/15/2012 7:00:50 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Pick a good spot on the front. Pile everything you've got on it, blast a hole open, and pour the reserves through. When I mean mass, I mean mass, put more or less all your artillery and mobile stuff along with a disproportionate amount of rifle corps and drill a hole. Attack in echelon, that is to say, have forces available to launch multiple attacks on this sector of the front, and to exploit gaps in the line. If you're doing this right, you will piled up 3-4 hexes deep in the area of concentration with all your bad boys.


Then I must be doing something wrong, because this would not work for me, as a mere red hex, not "guarded" by a unit in any way, will use 50% of the units MP if I enter it. So what I would end up with is a lot of units in the rear not being able to do anything while six stacks have attacked and simply moved two enemy stacks.
My USSR forces lack MP and morale to be able to move into enemy hexes, which is why I made alot of mech and tank corps, as those were the only ones able to actually push through the enemy line.

Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/15/2012 7:21:48 PM   
Flaviusx


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You might want leaders with better admin ratings to get higher movement values out of your rifle units. In my experience if you get luck with admin rolls and have some rifle units with 16 mps, these can do a lot of damage.

Even if the follow on rifle forces don't have enough MPs to attack, what they can do is this: have the mobile units clear the second line, fall back, and then move the fresh rifle units to occupy the newly cleared hexes. These will then be in the position to launch new attacks the following turn and won't be easily dislodged. The rifle guys who led the attack in the prior turn will now be in the second line. Rinse and repeat each turn, and you'll be rotating rifle corps throughout and keeping them fresh.

Eventually the German line will crack and you'll get ahead of his fort building ability.

This works best in clear weather, obviously.

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/15/2012 7:37:43 PM   
randallw

 

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Are there 'too many' rifle units now, to the point that some should be disbanded for the manpower?

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/15/2012 7:47:50 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

You might want leaders with better admin ratings to get higher movement values out of your rifle units. In my experience if you get luck with admin rolls and have some rifle units with 16 mps, these can do a lot of damage.

Even if the follow on rifle forces don't have enough MPs to attack, what they can do is this: have the mobile units clear the second line, fall back, and then move the fresh rifle units to occupy the newly cleared hexes. These will then be in the position to launch new attacks the following turn and won't be easily dislodged. The rifle guys who led the attack in the prior turn will now be in the second line. Rinse and repeat each turn, and you'll be rotating rifle corps throughout and keeping them fresh.

Eventually the German line will crack and you'll get ahead of his fort building ability.

This works best in clear weather, obviously.


Ok, will look at my leaders again. Thank you for the help!

Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/15/2012 8:57:17 PM   
terje439


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Turn 172

Overall
This turn we do not make alot of attacks, but instead try to redistribute some forces as well as resting the most vary units (some have a fatigue level of 80). We make a total of 13 attacks, scoring 4 held and 9 retreats.
167.000 workers report to the manpower pool, ending it at 5.535.

Units
2 LBs and 3 TACs are sent to the reserve.
We spend aproxomately 40 points on distributing SUs, while the rest is spent on reassigning generals in one front.
Our forces report a net growth of 69.000 troops this turn.

Units destroyed
The German 702 SP Infantry Gun Company is destroyed this turn.

Partisans
The Axis chased away 10 units leaving us with 22 active units. It was abysmal turn nevertheless with 2 sabotague actions and 1 supply drop...






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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/16/2012 5:00:33 AM   
terje439


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Turn 173

Overall
We push as best we can, but with quite a few units still resting, we are only able to make a total of 18 attacks, scoring 2 held and 16 retreats this turn. Of those 16 retreats, we are only able to occupy the hex in 4 of the cases, so we are not making any headway at the moment. Losses are given as;
Axis : 57.000 troops and 158 AFVs
USSR : 94.000 troops and 314 AFVs
171.000 workers report to the manpower pool this turn, ending it at 5.494

Units
1 LB and 1 TAC are sent to the reserves this turn. Something must be wrong since only 2 units have awful morale this turn...
We reassign a few generals, but the majority of USSR generals leave alot to be desired...
According to the logs, our forces grew by 72.000 troops this turn.

Planning
I need to do something, so I am contemplating the following (see below) plan for the winter, as I doubt it is a good idea to push it before the mud which I believe will be here soon. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Partisans
The Axis chase away 5 units, leaving us with 29 on the map. Our guys manage 10 sabotague actions this turn, and we actually fly 15 supply drops, so numbers are rising again.






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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/16/2012 5:28:42 AM   
76mm


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I think your plan looks awfully ambitious. I think if you can knock them back in your red attack zone, and then keep pressing south rather than southwest you'll have a better chance to induce his troops to the south to pull back.

Also, it doesn't look like you have any reserves, anywhere! I take it you are not worried at all about German counter-attacks/encirclement attempts?

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/16/2012 6:01:51 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

1. I think your plan looks awfully ambitious.
2. I think if you can knock them back in your red attack zone, and then keep pressing south rather than southwest you'll have a better chance to induce his troops to the south to pull back.

3. Also, it doesn't look like you have any reserves, anywhere! I take it you are not worried at all about German counter-attacks/encirclement attempts?


1. Ok, what I thought, but needed to hear what people think as I am not at all sure what the Red Army is able to or not.
2. Ok, so rather head for area Stalino then?
3. None, although I can scavage if the need arise. Yes, ofc I fear an Axis counterattack, but the game is lost, and as of now I am only taking a few hexes per turn (not all along the front, but in total!!), so I need to do something. Damn the torpedoes etc etc, I need to make a major effort to effectively use my inititative, as of now I am merely banging the same wall over and over.


Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/16/2012 6:15:08 AM   
76mm


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I would shoot for just west of Stalino, and then adjust that further west if he starts pulling back.

But I also think you'll need more troops that you have indicated to do any real damage. I haven't gone back through the whole thread to review your deployments, but maybe breakdown more corps into divisions to cover more ground on defensive sectors of the front, and send freed up corps down to the attack sector?

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/16/2012 11:04:11 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I would shoot for just west of Stalino, and then adjust that further west if he starts pulling back.

But I also think you'll need more troops that you have indicated to do any real damage. I haven't gone back through the whole thread to review your deployments, but maybe breakdown more corps into divisions to cover more ground on defensive sectors of the front, and send freed up corps down to the attack sector?


I will see how many units I can free up and send to aid the attack.
I estimate a total of some 30 corps all in all might be used in the attack, but we will see

Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/16/2012 11:08:20 PM   
terje439


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Turn 174

Overall
Mud appears all along the front, meaning neither side is able to launch any attacks this turn. Our only offensive act is carried out by our airforce. All along the front I "de-stack", holding the front with only one unit while allowing the others to step back to rest.
In the end, losses are given at;
Axis : 21.000 troops and 28 AFVs
USSr : 63.000 troops and 88 AFVs.
A lowly 158.000 workers arriving at the manpower pool, means it ends at 178 this turn.

Units
1 LB and 7 TACs are sent to the reserves this turn.
We spend aproxomately 50 points on SUs, and we move alot of units to the rear so they can be rested for the winter.

Partisans
Although the Axis chase away 10 units, we are still left with 31 on the map. Our guys perform 15 acts of sabotague, and our pilots manage 20 supply drops this turn.






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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/17/2012 12:25:42 AM   
Baelfiin

 

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You can still hit those low cv stacks ( like the 8 defense one ) if you can get two sides, 3 corps each backed up by every gun that can reach and bombing the piss out of them with the Red air force.
Score extra casualties and disrupt what little fort building is going on. Plus it forces german to deal with reestablishing the line or at least reoccupying the hex. As an added bonus, it is good for personal morale to send the fascist flying even if you dont follow up into the hex 8)

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/17/2012 4:42:55 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

You can still hit those low cv stacks ( like the 8 defense one ) if you can get two sides, 3 corps each backed up by every gun that can reach and bombing the piss out of them with the Red air force.
Score extra casualties and disrupt what little fort building is going on. Plus it forces german to deal with reestablishing the line or at least reoccupying the hex. As an added bonus, it is good for personal morale to send the fascist flying even if you dont follow up into the hex 8)


True, however, the area round HQ Zhukov is the only place with low defensive CV stacks, so that means I will have to keep HQ Zhukov in place to launch that attack. The rest of the line is held by 15+ CV stacks

Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/17/2012 5:18:42 AM   
terje439


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Turn 175

Overall
The mud is still here (no surprise there), and we keep on doing our best to relocate HQ Zhukov (will be completed next turn). Once more our airforce is the only way to hurt the Axis, so any plane able to fly does so. Losses are still low;
Axis : 22.000 troops and 30 AFVs
USSR : 45.000 troops and 50 AFVs.
The ammount of workers reporting to the manpower pool continues to drop. This turn no more than 144.000 report in, so the pool ends at 1.295.

Units
1 TAC is sent to the reserves this turn. About 50 points spent on assigning SUs, and another 30 on reassigning units in the front taking over for HQ Zhukov.
Our forces claim a net growth of 104.000 troops.

Operation ARGH I am stuck
Next turn will see all units alloctaed to this offensive in place. All in all it will be about 50 corps attacking through that narrow sector.

Partisans
29 units are left after the Axis chase 10 away. Those 29 units perform 10 acts of sabotague and are rewarded with 15 supply drops.






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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/17/2012 6:53:36 AM   
Seminole


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quote:

Then I must be doing something wrong, because this would not work for me, as a mere red hex, not "guarded" by a unit in any way, will use 50% of the units MP if I enter it.


Don't overlook the importance of morale in driving through enemy territory.
Stack your units appropriately in your Shock/Guards armies, and allow their morale to maximize.

Motorized
Enter enemy hex +((115-unit morale)/15)) (round down)

Non-Motorized
Enter enemy hex +((115-unit morale)/15)) (round down, subtract one from cost for cavalry units)

Morale
30-40 pays 5 MP
41-55 pays 4 MP
56-70 pays 3 MP
71-85 pays 2 MP
86+ pays 1 MP

Consider including your cavalry corp in 'sure thing' attacks to build their morale so they can play their role as exploitation troops later.

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/17/2012 7:35:24 AM   
terje439


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I take it this is in addition to "normal" MP cost?
Thank you for the information!


Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/18/2012 4:55:57 PM   
terje439


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Turn 176

Overall
More mud, so again no attacks from either side. Losses are light;
Axis : 21.000 troops and 38 AFVs
USSR : 26.000 troops and 44 AFVs
Even the ammount of workers reporting to the manpower pool is awfully low this time. 125.000 report to the pool, ending it at 802.

Units
No aerial units demand a vacation this turn
Our forces claim a net growth of 107.000 troops this turn.

Operation ARGH I am stuck
All but one mechanized corps is in place awaiting better weather.

Partisans
29 units remain after the Axis chase 7 units away. We manage 9 sabotague missions this turn, and 15 supply drops.







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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/18/2012 5:15:13 PM   
juret

 

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9500 OOB tanks sounds very low for late 44.

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/18/2012 11:06:08 PM   
randallw

 

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Wow, Pavlov is still alive! 

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/19/2012 3:35:18 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

9500 OOB tanks sounds very low for late 44.


Not sure what the "target" figure should be...

Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/19/2012 3:38:39 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Wow, Pavlov is still alive! 


Indeed

Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/19/2012 3:42:01 AM   
terje439


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Turn 177

Overall
Still mud, so nothing happens. Losses are given as;
Axis : 23.000 troops and 28 AFVs
USSR : 34.000 troops and 21 AFVs
The ammount of workers arriving at the manpower pool takes another drop, this turn down to 105.000, ending the pool at 699.

Units
5 TACs are sent to the reserves this turn, apart from that we shuffle some forces around, relocating them from one HQ to another.
Our forces claim a net growth of 110.000 troops this turn.

Partisans
We are left with 28 active unit after 9 are forces to retreat. Our guys manage 15 sabotague actions, and are rewarded with 20 supply drops.

Screenie
Nothing to show really, so none made.

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/20/2012 3:22:29 PM   
terje439


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Turn 178

Overall
The mud is gone, and we immediately start attacking. We manage 25 attacks this turn, scoring 4 held and 21 retreats. This time around losses are definitively in our favour, as we score 1:1. Losses are given at;
Axis : 59.000 troops and 158 AFVs
USSR : 59.000 troops and 161 AFVs.
A total of 110.000 workers report to the manpower pool this turn, ending it at 3.645.

Units
We spend some points on rearranging some units from HQ to HQ.
Our forces claim a net growth of 75.000 troops this turn.

Operation ARGH I am stuck
Go go go!!

Partisans
The Axis chase away 10 units this turn, but we still have 30 active units left. Our guys manage 25 sabotague missions, and our pilots fly 10 supply drops in return.






Attachment (1)

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/20/2012 4:44:47 PM   
sveint


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Nice attack. If I may make a suggestion: forget the north and the forests there.

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/20/2012 4:53:02 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Nice attack. If I may make a suggestion: forget the north and the forests there.


Yes, I will deal with the Fins in -46
I will keep attacking the line around Moscow to try to dislodge the Germans there as well, but I think I will need to focus in the south.

Terje

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/21/2012 2:38:42 AM   
terje439


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Turn 179

Overall
We keep pushing wherever possible, what I am wondering now is wether the Axis will sacrifice the German infantry in Moscow or not. We manage 33 attacks for 11 held and 22 retreat this turn. The increased ammount of helds means higher losses for us this turn;
Axis : 63.000 troops and 250 AFVs
USSR : 104.000 troops and 449 AFVs.

Pools
Manpower ends at 8.121 after reciving 129.000 workers this turn.
Our vehicle pool is now at 294.787, and our armaments pool is at 981.765.
We recieve 134.000 reinforcements for our troops this turn, giving a net troop increase of 30.000 this turn.

Units
6 TACs are sent to the reserves this turn.

Proverb
A German SS Panzer Division in Siberia is better than 2 almost encircled.

Liberation
Rostov is liberated this turn.

Operation ARGH I am stuck
The Axis fall back, and our mechanized corps are rebuffed in the "wrong" locations, still the operation has forced the Axis to abandon Rostov. We will keep on attacking in this sector. The SS Panzer division manage to withdraw to safety for now.

Partisans
The Axis manage to chase away no less than 15 units this turn, leaving us with 27 units on the map. Our guys perform 9 acts of sabotague, and our pilots make 10 supply drops.






Attachment (1)

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/21/2012 5:48:22 AM   
terje439


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Turn 180

Overall
We keep on attacking, and the Axis line is in worse condition for every attack we make. A total of 32 attacks are made for the result of 5 held, 25 retreat, 1 rout and 1 surrender. With so few held results, loss ratio is good;
Axis : 77.000 troops and 220 AFVs
USSR : 98.000 troops and 288 AFVs

Units
4 TACs are sent to the reserves this turn.
Our ground forces claim a net growth of 41.000 troops this turn.

Pools
155.000 workers arrive in the manpower pool this turn, ending it at 3.978.
Vehicle pool : 298.003
Armaments pool : 981.633

Units destroyed
The 5th Rumanian Cavalry Division is destroyed this turn.

Partisans
We are left with 28 units after the Axis chase 7 away this turn. Our guys perform 12 sabotague missions, and are rewarded with 10 supply drops (or the same ammount as the entire frontline...).







Attachment (1)

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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) - 1/21/2012 1:48:02 PM   
Kharkov43


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I just love attacks dos'nt matter if its German or Russian. If succesful you could bust open the South......NO mercy for the dreaded SS!

< Message edited by Kharkov43 -- 1/21/2012 1:51:39 PM >

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