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RE: M60 vs Pelton

 
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RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/4/2012 12:36:55 PM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 89
German Arm PTs in pool= 64,000
German Manpower in pool= 170,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 = 196
Russian units currently in a pocket: 3
Russian losses this turn: 36,000 Total dead: 7,050,000
Russian OOB: 6,743,00
A net gain of: 15,000
GHC losses this turn: 17,000 Total dead: 2,341,000
GHC OOB: 3,682,000
GHC net OOB change: -12,000

AGS: I cut off a few units. I refitted 6 mech corp to full strength over the last few turns. They easly plow through some "strong" Russian stacks. Basicly a test run for summer offensive.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 331
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/4/2012 12:38:18 PM   
Pelton

 

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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AGN: Basicly going to straighten out lines and be able to pull out 4 divisions to use as a reserve in this area.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 332
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/4/2012 12:41:48 PM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 90
German Arm PTs in pool= 79,000
German Manpower in pool= 181,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942-45 = 199
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 88,000 Total dead: 7,138,000
Russian OOB: 6,743,00
A net gain of: 3,000
GHC losses this turn: 22,000 Total dead: 2,363,000
GHC OOB: 3,682,000
GHC net OOB change: -37,000

AGS: M60 attcks along lines tring to push me back. I want to hold out until mud season and pull back behind rivers.
3 units are destoryed from last turns pocket and another 3 units cut off. The test operation is over.

I need to finish off the Wall soon.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/4/2012 12:45:02 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 333
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/4/2012 12:43:29 PM   
Pelton

 

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AGN: 2 hexe taken and units move in to hold. Attacking up here is easyest as hexes can generally be held. Hopefully I can striaghten lines be Mud. I need to take 5 more hexes.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/4/2012 12:44:07 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 334
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/7/2012 4:56:56 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 91
German Arm PTs in pool= 91,000
German Manpower in pool= 181,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942-45 = 202
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 87,000 Total dead: 7,225,000
Russian OOB: 6,744,00
A net gain of: 1,000
GHC losses this turn: 27,000 Total dead: 2,390,000
GHC OOB: 3,690,000
GHC net OOB change: +8,000

AGN: Gains a few more hexs




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 335
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/7/2012 4:58:02 AM   
Pelton

 

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AGC: Just hanging on.

Started pulling infantry and tanks from the front and refitting for 43 summer O.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 336
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/9/2012 5:11:38 PM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 92
German Arm PTs in pool= 52,000
German Manpower in pool= 123,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942-45 = 202
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 63,000 Total dead: 7,288,000
Russian OOB: 6,738,00
A net gain of: -6,000
GHC losses this turn: 26,000 Total dead: 2,416,000
GHC OOB: 3,735,000
GHC net OOB change: +45,000

Overall I am in very good shape. My OOB will be close to 4 million by June 1943 and moral is very high. My mech forses are in great shape and all panzer divisions will be in refit mode for the next 3 months.
Most of the fort zones have 90% plus toe so I have turned them back to 50%, this way all the replasements go to the front line units.

AGN: this area I has been quite other then a small operation to storten lines. I have will have 2 lines of level 3 forts by June. Only 3 Fin divisions and 3 brigades are below the attack line and none are at the front. I will have 2 Corp of Infantry as a reserve from the Oka north. This should be more then enough as the terrain is great for defence.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 337
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/9/2012 5:16:47 PM   
Pelton

 

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AGC: North of Oka should be good with 2 lines of forts and 2 Corp in reserve by June.

South of the Oka I have a fort belt 50 miles thick, with a river in the center of the line. There is a 20 mile gap between the rivers that will have extra defensive units and more to counter attack any units that try to hold a hex that might have got taken.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 338
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/9/2012 5:26:42 PM   
Pelton

 

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AGS: This area I should have a fort belt 50 miles thick by June also and allot but 1 Corp of mech/panzer units will be defending in this area. So I can easly layer more forts as needed during summer, pocket units or stack the front lines.

Again in the middle of the 50 mile fort belt there are minor or major rivers. Plus the Eastern Wall another 90 miles to the west.

18th Army and all mech/panzer forses will be pulled from the front the first turn of mud and refit.
By June 1943 I fully expect these formations to be near 100% TOE and ready for a major operation.

I will not sit back and be ground down. I will conduct an 1943 offensive and try to destory as much of the Red Army as possible.







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 339
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/9/2012 5:28:31 PM   
Pelton

 

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AGB: This area should be quite as it has been for months. 1 Corp will be held in reserve in this area also.

More of the same with allot of forts and rivers.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 340
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/12/2012 6:15:39 PM   
coolts


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From: Auf Wiedersehen, Pet
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Got my popcorn ready......waiting for summer.

You're preparations and analytical approach in your AAR’s fascinate me and have given me much food for thought. I'm a month ahead in my game and deep in mud and planning a '43 summer offensive. I am finding C&C more and more of a challenge as I’m getting lots of new divisions and no new corps or army HQ’s. That and 11th army buggering off has left a lot of orphaned troops being attached to army groups as "strategic reserves". Not ideal.

_____________________________

"Gauls! We have nothing to fear; except perhaps that the sky may fall on our heads tomorrow. But as we all know, tomorrow never comes!!" - Chief Vitalstatistix

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 341
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/12/2012 10:54:17 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: coolts

Got my popcorn ready......waiting for summer.

You're preparations and analytical approach in your AAR’s fascinate me and have given me much food for thought. I'm a month ahead in my game and deep in mud and planning a '43 summer offensive. I am finding C&C more and more of a challenge as I’m getting lots of new divisions and no new corps or army HQ’s. That and 11th army buggering off has left a lot of orphaned troops being attached to army groups as "strategic reserves". Not ideal.


We are almost to summer nothing to really post during mud.

Just put the orphans behind major rivers or up north. Best troops basicly south of Oka as all russians seem to push hardest in the clear area and head for Kiev.

I have 3.8 million men going into summer so OOB is about normal for German side.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to coolts)
Post #: 342
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/12/2012 11:34:47 PM   
sath

 

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Is 290K ish the normal size of the Finish army at this time. Also when do the Italians go away exactly. The number of German tanks and planes looks kind of lowish

< Message edited by sath -- 3/12/2012 11:38:14 PM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 343
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 1:59:37 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sath

Is 290K ish the normal size of the Finish army at this time. Also when do the Italians go away exactly. The number of German tanks and planes looks kind of lowish


Looking back at the 4 games that I have played past turn 100 todate.

Finish 290k is about normal give or take 10k, numbers mean little its about moral. 10 divisions are near 80 moral as they have stayed in Finland most of the war.
The Italians have started going back home.
Plane numbers are a few hundred low, but if you dont use the bombers now they go away by 44. So I have been using them in ground support at 300%. M60 lost all the plane factories in Moscow so I am still ruling the skys. The only action is in a small area in the center. So I can keep my planes fling over the important area.
Tank numbers are low about 1500 to 2000, but again what I have learned and read on other AAR's you had better use them because by late 44 they are usless because infantry numbers/moral are so low.

Tank Divisions are almost totally usless after 42. The mech units are the only ones that really matter. Panzer divsions are basicly mech divisions the way I use them. 20 tanks, but they can still move 45+ heheh

Armament production during 43 is high for Germany so the tank numbers will stay at 4k atleast and grow to 6k plus dring 45.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to sath)
Post #: 344
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 10:56:30 AM   
BigAnorak


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From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
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quote:

Tank Divisions are almost totally usless after 42


Not sure I agree with you on this - from 1943 onwards, the armoured forces are my main defensive tool; set to maximise reserve activation they also pull a double duty digging level 2 entrenchments for the front line infantry to fall back to. If reserve activations can cause 10+ hold results per turn, this adds up to substantial delay, and hold results can give casualty ratios of 8:1+ in favour of the defender, which again can add up to a serious dent in the Red Army. In many ways the panzers can be more effective on defence than on attack.

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 3/13/2012 10:57:44 AM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 345
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 11:54:24 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

quote:

Tank Divisions are almost totally usless after 42


Not sure I agree with you on this - from 1943 onwards, the armoured forces are my main defensive tool; set to maximise reserve activation they also pull a double duty digging level 2 entrenchments for the front line infantry to fall back to. If reserve activations can cause 10+ hold results per turn, this adds up to substantial delay, and hold results can give casualty ratios of 8:1+ in favour of the defender, which again can add up to a serious dent in the Red Army. In many ways the panzers can be more effective on defence than on attack.


When I get a single panzer or mech division to do something in reserve mode just once in this game I will let you know.

I have played more then a few games past January 43 and have only seen a handfull of units do anything other then sit around for endless turns.

Unless they fixed reserve mode in 1.06.4 reserve mode is another item thats window dressing.

Atleast for the german side as the % to react seems lower then winning the Mega bucks.

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/13/2012 12:02:42 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 346
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 12:18:48 PM   
BigAnorak


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You need to structure your C&C and leaders to maximise initiative, and you need to rotate armoured units in a mix of regiments and divisions. Once I am on the defensive my standard army package is 2 infantry Korps of 4-5 divisions holding an 8-9 hex frontage, with a panzer korps of 4 divs in reserve split into 6 regiments and 2 divisions. This minimises the C&C penalties and maximises the chances of reserve activation.

With a 9 initiative leader in OKH and in 3 of the 4 Army groups, 8 initiative leaders in armies and 7 initiative leaders in PZ korps, you can trigger activations in 35%+ of battles and 80% of those will produce hold results, so 10+ hold results per turn from reserve activations is easily achieveable.

I ran 2 test 1942 campaigns against 115/95 AI for 100 turns i.e. to June1944, the first without reserves, the second with reserves maxed. The front lines in the 2nd test were 20 hexes east of the first test and Soviet casualties were 800k higher.

edit: Anyway, good luck with your 1943 offensive - I would just advise you to keep an eye on your german OOB - once your manpower goes below 3.4 million, offensive operations can tip the attrition balance against you. It nearly cost tarhunnas big time in his game.


< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 3/13/2012 12:39:27 PM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 347
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 1:19:12 PM   
coolts


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From: Auf Wiedersehen, Pet
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<BA> Do initiative checks happen from the top down then? (OKH-->AG->Army-->Corps-->Div)? I thought is was the other way round, as and when i commit a division to battle.

If you're right then having better stat leaders for a particular discipline makes more sense higher up the food chain, (i.e high "mech" leaders in panzer army HQ rather then panzer Corps HQ)

Sorry for slightly derailing your AAR Pelton

_____________________________

"Gauls! We have nothing to fear; except perhaps that the sky may fall on our heads tomorrow. But as we all know, tomorrow never comes!!" - Chief Vitalstatistix

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 348
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 1:41:53 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
When I get a single panzer or mech division to do something in reserve mode just once in this game I will let you know.

I have played more then a few games past January 43 and have only seen a handfull of units do anything other then sit around for endless turns.

Unless they fixed reserve mode in 1.06.4 reserve mode is another item thats window dressing.

I don't agree with this at all; under 1.05 German reserve reactions were giving me fits, with some panzer divisions reacting 3 times in a single turn. On the other turn, on some turns there was little or no reserve activity, I couldn't really figure out why the difference.

Another issue is that the reserves were too "smart" in my opinion--they were usually only committed if I was using a low-odds attach which would be stopped by the reserve commitment; when big stacks attacked, reserves were usually not committed; in the few times that they were, the reserves did not prevent a German retreat with pretty stiff panzer losses.

In my view German use of reserves can slow down the Sov steam roller by forcing to use bigger stacks in their attacks, but at the cost of significantly greater tank losses,

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 349
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 1:49:26 PM   
Flaviusx


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Pelton, you're never going to see many reserve commitments with a chump like Zeitzler running the show. Fire him and put a real guy in OKH. It's all about initiative.

Reserve commitment isn't broken. Good defensive German players have always made heavy use of it -- like Ketza and Idaho. (And Bob.) It's a million times more effective than that preposterous FR spam you think is the height of German defensive warfare.

It was broken for the Soviets, mind you, due to STAVKA dropping out of the war after October of 1941 when it overloaded. That's what got fixed in 1.06, but you as the Axis have always had the tools.

Once you figure out how to use this, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to master whatever it is that TDV is doing to you during blizzards.





< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 3/13/2012 1:53:04 PM >


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Post #: 350
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 4:10:36 PM   
Pelton

 

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I used it vs Kamil during summer of 42 to date. During late 42 and 43 I had almost every single unit withen 2 hexes of front with 45 Mp's and Kamil was attacking 8 attacks per turn for over a yr and I only had a handfull if that, of units do anything at all.

I was turtle up from July 42 to late 43 before things started to fall apart.

I just do not ever see it doing anything at all.

I had Manstien and Guardrian with 8 divisions sit for months on end in reserve and zip not a single counter attack.

Vs M60 during mud season switching from refit on mud turns to reserve on clear and nothing.

I just plain do not see it doing anything ever and have been tring.

Thats 1000's of possible times in 4 different games under 1.04/1.05 amd 1.06 with only 4 or 5 ever doing anything.

I will be tring it vs 8421 and M60 during 43, but have little hope of it ever working.

I have only seen 8421 have it work much at all in all the games I have played to date. I really have totally ignored its effects when I am attacking, because it has had none to date.

Pelton


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 351
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 4:13:12 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

You need to structure your C&C and leaders to maximise initiative, and you need to rotate armoured units in a mix of regiments and divisions. Once I am on the defensive my standard army package is 2 infantry Korps of 4-5 divisions holding an 8-9 hex frontage, with a panzer korps of 4 divs in reserve split into 6 regiments and 2 divisions. This minimises the C&C penalties and maximises the chances of reserve activation.

With a 9 initiative leader in OKH and in 3 of the 4 Army groups, 8 initiative leaders in armies and 7 initiative leaders in PZ korps, you can trigger activations in 35%+ of battles and 80% of those will produce hold results, so 10+ hold results per turn from reserve activations is easily achieveable.

I ran 2 test 1942 campaigns against 115/95 AI for 100 turns i.e. to June1944, the first without reserves, the second with reserves maxed. The front lines in the 2nd test were 20 hexes east of the first test and Soviet casualties were 800k higher.

edit: Anyway, good luck with your 1943 offensive - I would just advise you to keep an eye on your german OOB - once your manpower goes below 3.4 million, offensive operations can tip the attrition balance against you. It nearly cost tarhunnas big time in his game.



Thanks for positive input.

I will 100% give it a try vs 8421 and M60 as in both games I am about to go on defensive soon.

I really hope it works.

Thanks again for info.

Pelton



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 352
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 4:36:45 PM   
BigAnorak


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From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
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quote:

<BA> Do initiative checks happen from the top down then? (OKH-->AG->Army-->Corps-->Div)? I thought is was the other way round, as and when i commit a division to battle.


No, they happen bottom up, so yes, you want high initiative guys at korps level, but obviously guys like Guderian and Manstein would be wasted at korps level, so you use them as "backstops" at the higher levels. There may be a couple of panzer korps commanders with 8 initiative, but the majority are 7s.

Having a mix of regiments and divisions definitely helps, but 76mm is right when you don't get a "hold" it can be bloody. I have seen many complaints about counter attacking with PZ divs, and losing 3k to inflict 4k losses on the Sovs, so I see reserve mode as replicating 1943 panzers' ability to counter attack indirectly, and you will find that for losses of 1k in a reserve activation you can inflict 4k+ losses on the Sovs.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 353
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 4:51:24 PM   
wac29

 

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Pelton, are you changing the panzer units command to be part of the corps/army in the front lines? The way I read 15.5.2 they won't commit or won't as often if too far apart command-wise. This effect may be more pronounced than the initiative rating of the leaders.

< Message edited by wac29 -- 3/13/2012 4:52:17 PM >

(in reply to BigAnorak)
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RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 7:29:19 PM   
sath

 

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So who is the best guy to have in charge of OKH. You want high admin and initiative does such guy exist

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RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 7:39:51 PM   
BigAnorak


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Admin is needed when going forward so Halder/Zeitzler are fine. When you move to defensive you need high initiative so Guderian, Manstein and Schorner are your go to guys with Kesselring a possibility too. Guderian's admin rating is OK for defensive needs.

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RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 9:03:53 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wac29

Pelton, are you changing the panzer units command to be part of the corps/army in the front lines? The way I read 15.5.2 they won't commit or won't as often if too far apart command-wise. This effect may be more pronounced than the initiative rating of the leaders.


Looks like I will have to split up 2 PG's.

Each game is different for sure. M60 game I think I only need to split of 4 Corp to start with leaving a good forse in reserve for pocketing enemy units.

Game vs 8421 I will put more PZ Corps in front with a smaller mobil reserve.

Both games I will keep 18th army to counter the main enemy spearheads, pushing back any hexes they take and move into. Tring to keep a no mans land between armys.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

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RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/13/2012 9:37:01 PM   
randallw

 

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How far are these reserve units from the front line?

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RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/17/2012 5:51:06 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

You need to structure your C&C and leaders to maximise initiative, and you need to rotate armoured units in a mix of regiments and divisions. Once I am on the defensive my standard army package is 2 infantry Korps of 4-5 divisions holding an 8-9 hex frontage, with a panzer korps of 4 divs in reserve split into 6 regiments and 2 divisions. This minimises the C&C penalties and maximises the chances of reserve activation.

With a 9 initiative leader in OKH and in 3 of the 4 Army groups, 8 initiative leaders in armies and 7 initiative leaders in PZ korps, you can trigger activations in 35%+ of battles and 80% of those will produce hold results, so 10+ hold results per turn from reserve activations is easily achieveable.

I ran 2 test 1942 campaigns against 115/95 AI for 100 turns i.e. to June1944, the first without reserves, the second with reserves maxed. The front lines in the 2nd test were 20 hexes east of the first test and Soviet casualties were 800k higher.

edit: Anyway, good luck with your 1943 offensive - I would just advise you to keep an eye on your german OOB - once your manpower goes below 3.4 million, offensive operations can tip the attrition balance against you. It nearly cost tarhunnas big time in his game.




I set things up during the mud and spring turns as you told me to.

North of Oka I put every unit in Reserve and down near Rostov behind the major river with some reserves forses just in case they might be needed.

The majority of panzer forses and 18th army I set up as per your "orders".

OKH 9
AGA 9,AGB 9,AGC 8, AGN 7
1,2,3 and 4th PG have 8 and 7 and the rest have lvl 7. Not all corp set-up yet but all the pz corp have 7.

The fronts are only 6 hex wide from Oka to Don. There is a land Bridge by Tomboy 1st PZ has a 3 hex front hehehe.

I received an email from M60 saying his first big Offensive turn of the summer of 43 was a total bust, because of allot of reserve commitments. I am not sure of the %, but from what he said it was big :)

I had the front lined with 3 hexs of a broken down pz division, then a full division in a single hex, then 3 hexs of a broken down division. Each army had 1 corp. of 4 mech/pz divisions.

I had the 9 most important hexs(3 small land bridges) covered by 4 mech/pz division at each land bridge.

I still have 3 infantry corp and 2 pz corp in reserve refitting.
4 to 6 deep line of level 2/3 forts at the front.
The Pelton Line 100 miles back from the front and major river lines. in 4 turns when AP is back to 400 I will start building more forts in the Pelton Line and river lines.

I think the biggest problem M60 is having is the manpower crunch caused by the massive losses of manpower centers. I over ran 400 pts during 1942 alone.

A learnt allot this game for sure.

Manpower pts are huge.
Push push push with panzer units as long as possible. Sure my OOB was static from October 1942 to April 1943, but so was his. I kept the ratio even, which is all you need to buy space and time. Its not how many tanks you have its what you do with them.
Reserve mode done right is huge.

Thanks for help everyone, with out great positive input I would less then an average player

Pelton





< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/17/2012 5:52:24 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 359
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/17/2012 6:40:01 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Reserve mode done right is huge.

Whaddya know, you can teach an old dog new tricks!

(in reply to Pelton)
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