Matrix Games Forums

Battle Academy is now available on SteamPlayers compare Ageods Civil War to Civil War IIDeal of the week - An updated War in the East goes half Price!Sign up for the Qvadriga beta for iPad and Android!Come and say hi at Pax and SaluteLegends of War goes on sale!Piercing Fortress Europa Gets UpdatedBattle Academy Mega Pack is now availableClose Combat: Gateway to Caen Teaser TrailerDeal of the Week Alea Jacta Est
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: M60 vs Pelton

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: M60 vs Pelton Page: <<   < prev  9 10 [11] 12 13   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 12:47:30 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoktorRainbow

To my amateur eyes this breakthrough looks like the definite final finishing off move against the Soviets. Poor Stalin. :p


I dont think so. Its hard to cut anything off during snow or blizzard.

I am just buying time and tring to keep his OOB static until June. I will then try for the KO, but I still think it will remain just out of reach.

M60 has made no major errors on the field of battle, his errors are his AP usage. My game vs 8421 is a very good one to look at and this one.

AP usage is more important then what goes on at the front. What the SHC player spends his AP's on is hugely important.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to DoktorRainbow)
Post #: 301
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 1:56:44 PM   
76mm


Posts: 2057
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Moscow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
M60 has made no major errors on the field of battle, his errors are his AP usage. My game vs 8421 is a very good one to look at and this one.


Pelton, good to see you back. That is quite a hole you've blasted, but it will be interesting to see what you can do with it.

I'd be curious to know what errors you think M60 made re AP usage?

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 302
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 2:28:17 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6239
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Pelton, I'm going to a bit harsher. He's made serious errors in both AP usage and on the field. (And by AP usage, I mean army management and composition.)

If nothing else, I hope this game kills this idea that rifle corps are the answer to everything.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 303
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 2:29:19 PM   
sath

 

Posts: 428
Joined: 2/21/2010
Status: offline
This has been an ongoing discussion through the AAR. I think one of the things was too many rifle corps but some of it has to be influenced by the loss of so many Russian units after november of 41

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 304
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 2:40:14 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1271
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Losing a division or brigade is much different from losing a corps. The only time I use corps is 1942 is when I want to get enough CVs for a good odds counter attack.

(in reply to sath)
Post #: 305
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 2:46:49 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6239
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
They're just not that good for even counterattacking, Marquo. Especially before the October TOE. 1 early rifle corps has less combat power than 3 rifle divisions. You are exchanging 30000 men for 20000 men. This has never made sense to me.

Rifle divisions can counterattack just fine -- and they can be in three places at once compared to a corps. Stiffen them with some mobile corps and you are good to go, and this has the additional benefit of giving your mobile units combat experience.

The rifle corps should be properly understood as a late war battering ram to crack German lines, and not on its own, but with lavish fire support from artillery divisions. It's not a defensive tool, by and large, and especially not in its early iteration.



_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 306
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 3:06:28 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1271
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Given the 3 unit/hex limit, on occasion I need to consolidate 3 divisions into a corps so I can get the CV odds needed to counterattack. A stack of 3 panzer/mtz Axis units which has fought 3 or 4 attacks in it's turn can be thrown back with horrendous losses this way; such a stack often had a defense value of ~ 12; so I like to gang up with 26 -28 attacking CVs. An inf corps can have a CV of 7 or 8 in 1942, so to get the odds 2 corps are needed with other units. This requires attacking from at least 3 hexes and it is otherwise hard to get a win. I pound the defenders with as many ground aerial attacks as possible; sometimes 10 strikes; I also find any nearby HQs and aerially pound the crap out of them. The I attack the hapless Axis stack, and almost invariable win; an average attack like this causes ~4,000 defenser losses and ~30 -40 AFVs; the attacker loses ~2,000 and the sam number of AFVs. After the attack I pull the corps out of the front line and place them on reserve. When fresh these corps have more than ample MPs to hit hard and run; I never use them on the defense frontline.

Marquo

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 307
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 3:22:18 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6239
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
A fair point, but I myself would simply avoid hitting stacks of panzers until 1943. Better to let them exhaust themselves punching through swarms of rifle divisions, and save your APs for cheap rifle corps. And wait for the German to slip up and stop stacking them.

And you'll have the artillery in 43 as well. In this instance whatever tactical advantage you get from early corps needs to be set aside for long term army management. APs are tight.

Let me put this another way. Every early rifle corps you buy is delaying production of 2 artillery divisions. Every early rifle corps you buy is one less tank corps. Every early rifle corps bought is 3 less motorized or mechanized brigades and 5 APs carried over to help flip those over. It's all about opportunity costs.

I like what Q-ball does in particular (it's what I do as well.) Get these other builds out of the way and save up a nice big AP kitty for that glorious date, January 1, 1943. Then, poof. 50 brand new rifle corps, with the latest and greatest TOE, and they'll have all their buddies on hand to get the job done right -- the artillery, the mobile units, all of it.





< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 2/16/2012 3:38:45 PM >


_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 308
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 4:00:16 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Pelton, M-60 is making alot of mistakes IMO. His tactical handling leaves much to be desired. His biggest problem is all the up-front stacking, which I don't understand why Soviet players keep doing that. It just gets units surrounded. A carpet of non-stacked units is best; it bends, but does not break.

To your credit, you are taking full advantage of that. But look at your game vs. 8271; he is keeping you contained alot better. The difference is tactical approach. He is spreading in depth, not stacking.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 309
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/16/2012 4:40:32 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1271
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Flav,

I agree, but do not underestimate the psychological effect on an Axis player when opening his turn, of finding a stacked corps of armored thrown back with horrific losses and this in 1942. The pangs of fear, hyperventilation and constricting glottis may lead to serious lapses of judgement; it's not just about the CVs.

< Message edited by Marquo -- 2/16/2012 4:41:53 PM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 310
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/18/2012 5:58:59 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 82
German Arm PTs in pool= 125,000 4700 wow!
German Manpower in pool= 90,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 = 196
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 64,000 Total dead: 6,748,000
Russian OOB: 6,532,00
A net gain of: -2,000
GHC losses this turn: 32,000 Total dead: 2,199,000
GHC OOB: 3,676,000
GHC net OOB change: +17,000






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to DoktorRainbow)
Post #: 311
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/18/2012 6:00:08 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 83
German Arm PTs in pool= 6,000
German Manpower in pool= 181,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 = 196
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 37,000 Total dead: 6,794,000
Russian OOB: 6,530,00
A net gain of: -2,000
GHC losses this turn: 34,000 Total dead: 2,223,000
GHC OOB: 3,675,000
GHC net OOB change: -1,000

I have started withdrawing from bubble as defenses are to strong. I do enough attacks to keep OOB static for both sides. My manpower pool is growing now. I am building up some extra men refitting 18th army.

If M60 pushes to hard I will try to pocket what I can.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 312
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/18/2012 6:01:21 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 84
German Arm PTs in pool= 7,000
German Manpower in pool= 137,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 = 196
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 31,000 Total dead: 6,825,000
Russian OOB: 6,531,00
A net gain of: 1,000
GHC losses this turn: 17,000 Total dead: 2,240,000
GHC OOB: 3,656,000
GHC net OOB change: -20,000

Pulling back still. Railed out 2 corps and getting ready for next offensive. No major operations planned just going to try and pick off a few units at a time.

Looks like he has got his best units where I want them. LW digging corp. will set up shop where he will start attacking soon.

I just need to milk this out for another month to protect rivers lines from Tomboy south.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 313
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/19/2012 5:14:51 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 86
German Arm PTs in pool= 25,000
German Manpower in pool= 146,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 = 196
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 46,000 Total dead: 6,901,000
Russian OOB: 6,603,00
A net gain of: 36,000
GHC losses this turn: 23,000 Total dead: 2,273,000
GHC OOB: 3,653,000
GHC net OOB change: -3,000





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 314
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/19/2012 6:44:10 PM   
sath

 

Posts: 428
Joined: 2/21/2010
Status: offline
I notice partisan everywhere on the map, do you not attack them with anti partisan units.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 315
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/19/2012 8:08:03 PM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
You are a much more experienced player than I am (to say the least), however, I think you have made a strategic error here in not pressing your advantage- not to gain more territory but to encircle and destroy more units. With that said, I'm not even sure how you were able to do what you did considering weather- but you will be getting to snow in a few turns and that should help you right?

Of course pressing you might have managed to pull defeat out of the jaws of victory, so I don't think your action is terrible or totally not justified. Hell, its no risk to me sitting here :)

(in reply to sath)
Post #: 316
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/19/2012 8:49:09 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1271
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Sath,

Pelton only keeps one east-west RR line working, so he ignores all of the Partisans except for the few which may threaten his aorta.

Marquo

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 317
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/21/2012 1:55:20 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Sath,

Pelton only keeps one east-west RR line working, so he ignores all of the Partisans except for the few which may threaten his aorta.

Marquo


After March 42 partisans aren't worth chasing around with other then garrison units and mybee 3 or 4 regiments as 50% of all rail lines are converted and 100% by late 42.

Atleast 12 of the right lines would have to be blown and that never happens. As was historical partisans had very very little effect on logistics other then some good training for security forses.

Current rule set is historical.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 318
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/21/2012 1:56:20 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 87
German Arm PTs in pool= 38,000
German Manpower in pool= 148,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 = 196
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 50,000 Total dead: 6,951,000
Russian OOB: 6,690,00
A net gain of: 87,000
GHC losses this turn: 22,000 Total dead: 2,295,000
GHC OOB: 3,686,000
GHC net OOB change: +33,000


So far operation is going as planned. I am keeping all the fighting east of river line, a few more turns and I can pull back behind rivers.

I was not able to delivery any big blows. 12 mech or panzer divisions of line refitting.

Lines should be strong enough so I can keep bulk of panzer units and 2 infantry Korp as a counter attacking force.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 319
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/21/2012 2:13:07 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

You are a much more experienced player than I am (to say the least), however, I think you have made a strategic error here in not pressing your advantage- not to gain more territory but to encircle and destroy more units. With that said, I'm not even sure how you were able to do what you did considering weather- but you will be getting to snow in a few turns and that should help you right?

Of course pressing you might have managed to pull defeat out of the jaws of victory, so I don't think your action is terrible or totally not justified. Hell, its no risk to me sitting here :)


I have meet the goals of the operation Post #285

I really had no chances to encircle that many more units. M60 gave me no openings. As German player you can only take what your given. I have been down this road a few other times (games into 43).

This operation has made my summer 1943 rivers lines safe. We have spent the winter fighting for ground east of the river lines.

This puts me in control of 1943 summer.

I can again pick the area I want to attack. North of OKA is solid with reserves most of lines south of OKA are behind rivers with 3 rows of forts with 15 infantry divisions in reserve not counting PG's.

There are allot of soft spots in M60's lines south or for that matter north of OKA.

I can pocket units in summer and exploit them as is not really possible in blizzard.

If I let him pound out hexs during blizzard I would have to attack him allong flanks, but because fighting was where I wanted it to happen. I can punch through almost anyways along the lines.

Sure I wish M60 screwed up and I pocketed more units, but he did not. His OOB has grown little. Sure he has built more corps, but the CV's are low because of the hvy fighting. I only need to get a few good size pockets and his unit count will drop and cause a AP crunch.

The death blow if it comes will be this coming summer. The 42/43 blizzard is setting the table for summer, as the 42 spring set the table for 42 summer.

Of course this coming summer might not go my way, but whats going on now is part of the plan.

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/21/2012 2:14:18 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 320
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/21/2012 2:45:45 PM   
HITMAN202


Posts: 534
Joined: 11/10/2011
Status: offline
Pelton.. you're building all those forts without a combat unit in the same hex... how can that be effective as they will decay or even more important not get stronger without a combat unit in the hex. I'm obviously confused about this strategy ...

_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 321
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/22/2012 12:43:19 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Pelton.. you're building all those forts without a combat unit in the same hex... how can that be effective as they will decay or even more important not get stronger without a combat unit in the hex. I'm obviously confused about this strategy ...


They are combat units and they slowly build forts.

I start building my 43 wall in 41 sometimes.

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 322
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/22/2012 1:24:10 AM   
HITMAN202


Posts: 534
Joined: 11/10/2011
Status: offline
I understand the difference between forts and the fort "unit" now. The fort unit.. how long does it take for it to progress from 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 ??? Obviously a long time if you start '43 line in '41. Why wouldn't one always start the German equivalent of the Maginot Line early ???

< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 2/22/2012 1:27:57 AM >


_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 323
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/22/2012 8:32:10 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

I understand the difference between forts and the fort "unit" now. The fort unit.. how long does it take for it to progress from 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 ??? Obviously a long time if you start '43 line in '41. Why wouldn't one always start the German equivalent of the Maginot Line early ???



Depends on what you set TOE% at. They will build as fast as normal units if TOE is at 100%, but most poeple set at 50% -60%. You can speed the time of 50% by moving OKH withen 5 hexes or attaching units to and HQ

Save on replasements so front line units get most.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 324
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 2/22/2012 8:38:45 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Pelton, M-60 is making alot of mistakes IMO. His tactical handling leaves much to be desired. His biggest problem is all the up-front stacking, which I don't understand why Soviet players keep doing that. It just gets units surrounded. A carpet of non-stacked units is best; it bends, but does not break.

To your credit, you are taking full advantage of that. But look at your game vs. 8271; he is keeping you contained alot better. The difference is tactical approach. He is spreading in depth, not stacking.



Its more then that. 8421 had more loses in 1941 by allot yet had more units and stronger units by March + during snow.
8421 stopped attacking and with drawing 2 hexs per turn in February.

A flip of 870,000 men.

8421 made some huge mistakes during 1941, M60 played much better in 41 and during blizzard inflicted more loses.

42 summer tactics were better but only because he was able to make up for a poor 41 with better understanding of what to build.

If not for his better under standing of game mechanics 8421 would have had a much weaker army come 42 summer tactics aside.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 325
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/1/2012 1:11:56 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 88
German Arm PTs in pool= 50,000
German Manpower in pool= 162,000
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 = 389
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 = 196
Russian units currently in a pocket:
Russian losses this turn: 63,000 Total dead: 7,014,000
Russian OOB: 6,728,00
A net gain of: 38,000
GHC losses this turn: 29,000 Total dead: 2,324,000
GHC OOB: 3,694,000
GHC net OOB change: +8,000

3 PZ Corp. out of lines refitting.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 326
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/1/2012 2:01:17 PM   
Baelfiin

 

Posts: 1248
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
Looks like you are in pretty good shape goiing into '43 pelton.  I am almost in the same turn vs Qball, but not nearly as far east as you are.  I'm really curious to watch how the spring summer goes for you in this game.

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 327
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/1/2012 4:01:10 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Looks like you are in pretty good shape goiing into '43 pelton.  I am almost in the same turn vs Qball, but not nearly as far east as you are.  I'm really curious to watch how the spring summer goes for you in this game.


The main difference probably is your OOB is larger then mine, but M60 has lost allot more manpower centers then Q-ball.

Most turns M60s OOB only grows 35k ish when there is only 10-15ish attacks in a turn.

In my game vs 8421 which is much closer to yours vs Q-ball, 8421's OOB is growing 70k per turn with the standard loses, no pockets.

The manpower centers are huge, even if you cant pocket units in late 42 drive for manpower pts. Every one you over run is like several 100 free kills per turn. Plus once you stop attacking and the Russian player starts attacking, even 10 or so a turn your morale start dropping. Morale is King.

Because I over ran so many manpower pts M60 strength is growing very slowly, so I can keep pounding away longer. Which is buying more time and morale.

Pelton vs 8421 and Baelfiin vs Q-ball are good test cases.

You basicly stopped offensive operations late summer 42, but I plan on pounding away into winter. I will still have reserves, just not as many as you.

Be very interesting to watch both those games.

M60 is in a death loop same as the games that the German hangs on to win in the AAR's. Once you destory X amount of manpower pts, the russian army recovers very slowly. So as German you can keep attacking until late summer of 43.
If VP is changed to 260 sometimes soon I only need 6 pts and there is allot more then that withen 10 hexes.

I have tried digging in late summer of 42 in 2 other games and one ended in defeat and the other vs Kamil will also end shortly in defeat.

My game vs 8421 is probably my best ever test case to date as he is building the right units when he should and is defending in 42 as he should.

I unlike my past 2 games am attacking even when pockets aren't likely, but manpower centers can be over run.

The down side to the all rifle Division, cav and tank Corp depth russian defence during 1942 is the German player can still easly drive 2 to 4 hexes deep and stack 3 high.

Vs 8421 or the next Russian player that imploys this defence in 1942 I am just going to drive for Moscow in June then clear out south. No hex is untakeable in 2 assaults as I and others have proven.


< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/1/2012 4:04:23 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 328
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/1/2012 5:05:53 PM   
Baelfiin

 

Posts: 1248
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
Yep i think the best thing I can hope for is a draw, but I am setting a little trap for the summer, that may change things up 8)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 329
RE: M60 vs Pelton - 3/2/2012 1:06:25 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5720
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Yep i think the best thing I can hope for is a draw, but I am setting a little trap for the summer, that may change things up 8)


If he over reachs a few times you can still turn tables in 1943. I have seen a few games were the Russian player has a major screw up and the German player is able to go over to the offensive.

Pelton

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 330
Page:   <<   < prev  9 10 [11] 12 13   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: M60 vs Pelton Page: <<   < prev  9 10 [11] 12 13   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.129