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RE: Death to Marquo!

 
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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 12:14:52 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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The only ready second echelon army I have at the moment is the 1st Guards army. Bryansk Front 21 Army + independent cavalry corps attached to the front itself + some units of the 1st Guards + the artillery / rocket divisions strike. Enemies are trashed, some mighty units of the 1st Guards advance, as per the plan

Yes, command penalties, obviously. If I want to avoid them, given my situation I don't think I cold achieve local, crushing superiority.

So that's the dilemma I have faced: either few -not so stong- forces attack and nothing is accomplished or overwhelming forces despite the penalties. I will always choose the latter I guess.




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 12:30:27 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Hmm... this goes to show I am not that wrong

One rifle corps and two rifle divisions backed by at least 3 artillery / rocket fail to defeat a well entrenched (level 2) German division...

Yes, these corps are rather weak... I have stronger corps in Moscow area... But I don't have the APs to reassign them...

If I do these sort of things I will never have the Red Army 2.0 = I will never get to Berlin. And if I don't have enough strength I must accept the command penalties. A crazy scenario




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 12:43:42 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Ok... I am still experimenting (my pixel troopov pay the price, it's war, and war is hell, remember eh!), as I have to understand how this works. Remember that I only played 3 or 4 turns vs the AI then only played vs humans. So I never opened for example the 1943-44 scenarios!

This time we attacked another well entrenched German division (level 2), but there were two rifle corps instead of one (previous miserable failure). And needless to say backed as well by the nasty artillery, rockets divisions

It worked.

So I will need to remember this rather rudimentary (I admit it) rule of thumb: 1 corps, bad; 2 corps, better, good




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 12:51:44 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Now my e-troops have to hate my guts and want me dead!

Again, only one corps + artillery = failure again

Am I seeing a trend here?

But let's continue, I have some more cannon fodder!




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 12:57:24 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Interesting. Two rifle corps but only 1 rocket division and it works! Yes yes yes, that's going to be my rule of thumb! Marquo, you're dead!




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 1:01:03 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Not sure I have to count this one. Two rifle corps + artillery etc and it works. But the enemy unit was not so entenched




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 1:06:37 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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And finally (I am running out of cannon fodder) a somewhat special case. The front army (19th) only had one rifle corps. So I have brought a corps from a reserve, second echelon army (61st; I will be pulling back this army). NO artillery at all. A failure




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< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 11/3/2012 1:07:05 AM >


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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 1:16:12 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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And the last sacrifice Honest!

I had an army with two rifle corps but no artillery at all.

Therefore I accepted command penalties and attacked with a third rifle corps from a neighouring army and a cavalry corps. Well entrenched German division. Trashed!

1) so two rifle corps without artillery might fail
2) three (or four if I count the cavalry corps) rifle corps without artillery might succeed

Ok... I think I am more or less starting to understand!




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< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 11/3/2012 1:19:23 AM >


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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 3:54:38 AM   
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Three rifle corps should do the trick, or their commander will be sent some place to "count trees".

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 1:57:58 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Three rifle corps should do the trick, or their commander will be sent some place to "count trees".


Yes, but I want to know the minimum, just in case I can't afford 3 corps The above experiments are telling me that two corps and decent quantities of artillery, rocket divisions might suffice. That's a start.

In fact also note that most of the trashed units were 2-units stacks and fort level 2.

1 German division + 1 German regiment

To dislodge let's say two German divisions (same fort level) perhaps I will need three corps + the artillery / rockets. Time will tell, as I will try to find this answer.

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 11/3/2012 2:00:02 PM >


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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 3:32:22 PM   
Klydon


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One thing to keep in mind TD is the combat loss limit percentage. (IE, when attacking a defender, even with overwhelming force, they will only lose a certain percentage of their troops). This is one of the reasons it is so maddening to fight against security regiments in the line because even smashing them with say 6 rifle corps and 6 artillery divisions will only result in a few hundred casualties. Now, if you attack a big stack of Germans (say two divisions or more), then it is safe to pour it on since the defender has a lot of troops defending a given hex, they will take a pretty hefty amount of casualties. (Nothing like seeing 3500-4000 casualties from a German stack of 20k ).

With this in mind, you are better off to hasty attack garbage to shove it out of the way (or kill its moral while building your own). Once you break the fort crust, against single units (even divisions), hasty attacks may be your friend. One of your goals is to not only cause the Germans casualties, but you want to trash his moral while building your own. I have also "hit and run" with tank/mech corps against units that were earlier smoked out of the fort line, but which my infantry can't reach anymore to make further attacks. The tanks/mech run out, make a couple of hasty attacks against said unit, then retreat behind my infantry screen to enjoy some down time. It won't cause a ton of casualties (but they do add up), but it will help crush the moral of the unit (and make it weaker in the future).

Just my two cents and if I am getting annoying with some of this stuff, let me know.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/3/2012 3:56:13 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

One thing to keep in mind TD is the combat loss limit percentage. (IE, when attacking a defender, even with overwhelming force, they will only lose a certain percentage of their troops). This is one of the reasons it is so maddening to fight against security regiments in the line because even smashing them with say 6 rifle corps and 6 artillery divisions will only result in a few hundred casualties. Now, if you attack a big stack of Germans (say two divisions or more), then it is safe to pour it on since the defender has a lot of troops defending a given hex, they will take a pretty hefty amount of casualties. (Nothing like seeing 3500-4000 casualties from a German stack of 20k ).

With this in mind, you are better off to hasty attack garbage to shove it out of the way (or kill its moral while building your own). Once you break the fort crust, against single units (even divisions), hasty attacks may be your friend. One of your goals is to not only cause the Germans casualties, but you want to trash his moral while building your own. I have also "hit and run" with tank/mech corps against units that were earlier smoked out of the fort line, but which my infantry can't reach anymore to make further attacks. The tanks/mech run out, make a couple of hasty attacks against said unit, then retreat behind my infantry screen to enjoy some down time. It won't cause a ton of casualties (but they do add up), but it will help crush the moral of the unit (and make it weaker in the future).

Just my two cents and if I am getting annoying with some of this stuff, let me know.


First of all, nothing you may say will ever be annoying. As I had said since the beginning of the AARs, harsh criticism is welcome And I mean it! I don't take things way too seriously on the cyber space (as it should be). And above all this is not some serious, vital stuff, it's just a mere game we play for fun. Nothing else. So I can't see how I might be offended. Not a chance

I see your point. If I see truly weak enemies I might try the hasty attacks and therefore keep moving. And that's a good thing about the second echelon armies. Given that they are relatively powerful they can easily trash every weak unit in their path (hasty attacks).

Once I bring armored units (the tank armies are facing a potential threat so far, and I still need to pay APs to bring the independent tank corps I plan to attach to the two fronts) I will indeed do this hit & run thing.

In fact, the ideal scenario: these hit & run coward () attacks should threaten to annihilate concrete enemy units (via the flanks). Direct consequence: this might force Marquo to keep retreating even more. And I badly need to advance if I want to get to Berlin in time.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/4/2012 9:03:20 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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I have just sent turn 100 and not much to say

Yes, mud all over the place, so there's only girl mud fighting shows for my exhausted soldiers, and in fact I suspect similar mud fights are taking place behind the German lines as well.

If anything, I finally managed to pull back two more Stavka reserve armies: 20th and 2nd Shock. Then this turn I spent all the APs buying the support my rifle corps will need. I have bought 40 x Sapper regiments + 20 x AT regiments.

Then in theory I could distribute these regiments on next turn (will they be ready -untrained, I know?)

Each rifle corps gets 2 x Sapper regiments + 1 x AT regiment

Oh, and up north I definitely send three scary bullies... Enough is enough

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/4/2012 9:42:20 PM   
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Not sure on the AT units for the infantry corps and here is why.

Germans will find out the hard way that attacking a infantry corps with panzer units is a risky proposition likely to result in very heavy casualties just from what the rifle corps already have in their ToE. They will likely learn quickly to leave them alone for the most part and concentrate their attention on the more mobile Russian units like cav, mech and tank corps. These are the units I would consider putting AT assets in simply because they are likely to be at the leading edge of my advance (at some point) and will likely be targets for the German armor. They may still lose, but having extra AT assets with them (tank and cav are weak on them organically in their ToE's) will raise the price the Germans must pay in counterattacking them.

Also, the Russians typically produce more tanks than they can ever find counters for without crushing their truck assets. Consequently, building some tank regiments is beneficial and it is these units I like placing in infantry corps (along with sappers) for a little extra punch. It allows me to get a good offensive unit in a unit that can be offensively challenged at times and makes use of my pile of tanks at a cheaper cost in trucks.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/4/2012 10:35:22 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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What you say makes a lot of sense

Still, the spearheads at least in 1943 will be precisely the Rifle Corps, if after a successful attack- they manage to advance ie second echelon advancing.

If he wants to counterattack with a lot of forces he necessarily should throw to the fight armored units (high MPs). That's where the AT make sense.

The Tank and Cavalry Corps have 2 x Tank Bns + 1 x Sapper regiment attached

I had asked many moons ago what support I should be attaching to the different corps. I had followed Flaviusx's advice.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/4/2012 10:37:39 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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In any case, your advice is sound. I will try to add 1 x AT regiment to the mobile units. This should be the support:

1 x Tank Bn
1 x Sapper regiment
1 x AT regiment

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 11/4/2012 10:38:19 PM >


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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/4/2012 10:40:49 PM   
Klydon


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If it is 43, those tank battalions became tank regiments now?

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/4/2012 10:43:21 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Oops, yes, Tank regiments

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/5/2012 8:49:58 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Turn 101

20 May 1943


Mud mud mud, only mud!

I would have skipped this turn but I'm mega rich, mega millionaire! I did not even remember the Steppe Front was arriving. So when I opened the turn I saw I had 185 APs

But but but, I went on a crazy shopping spree and now I'm mega poor again




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/5/2012 9:05:24 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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The Steppe Front has been placed between the Southwestern Front (north) and Voronezh Front (south). Three armies have been assigned to this new front: Stavka Reserve Armies 20 and 41 and Voronezh Front (therefore I had to pay APs) 47 Army.

There was a free unassigned Air HQ: the 16th Air Army. They are assigned to the Steppe Front: IAD (fighters), ShAD (tactical aka IL-2s) and BAD (level bombers) air bases filled with planes have been assigned to this air HQ.

The 20th Army will be in the southern tip of the front. An army attached to the Voronezh Front (33 army) will be sent to the south, shortening even more the various fronts, which is a good thing!




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/5/2012 9:08:29 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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But of course I have been putting the credit card to good use!

The support units I had created last turn were spreaded among the rifle corps. And I have created MORE rifle corps.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/5/2012 9:26:14 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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I had said some nasty bullies were sent to the north. I am talking about the three airborne divisions... Don't let the numbers fool you Mud, but the real offensive CVs are 4. Yes, these units are highly trained and have very high morale.

I'm also bringing three artillery brigades to convince the stubborn enemies that refuse to leave the area I'm planning to swallow!

So let Operation Crazy Dmitri commence!




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/12/2012 2:59:01 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Turn 102

27 May 1943


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
Oh, and up north I definitely send three scary bullies... Enough is enough


Yes, "enough is enough"...! And that's exactly what Marquo was thinking

He's finally sent REAL bullies to protect the Finns. Four panzer divisions, one motorized division and one motorized brigade appeared from nowhere and basically trashed the 23rd Army.

But if I am not mistaken these are good news he he he...




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/12/2012 3:18:18 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Dispositions. First of all, the army in the northern tip (the 7th) withdraws some hexes. They are really far from railheads anyway.

I had in this area the three Guards Airborne Divisions (that in theory should have scared him. They possibly did that ). I had also said that I was keeping a tank army to support the fronts in the north, in case of enemy agressive moves, which I did not expect by the way, as there is nothing interesting here: forests and then more forests.

Therefore I am dispatching these armored hordes to the north: the 2nd Tank Army that is: 3 x Tank Corps + 1 x Mechanized Corps (overloaded I know).

And finally a Stavka Reserve Army has been dispatched too: the 39th (1 x Rifle Corps + 5 x Rifle Divisions).

I will try the same (or maybe not ) to reach the Volkhov hex and thus cut him in two, his armored hordes more or less "trapped" in the north.




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/12/2012 3:31:07 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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And these are good news (I think) because -along with other events- it shows Marquo won't be conducting any offensive apparently. So this will be Scenario #5 = [Axis] do nothing, defend

These other events: in the offensive area (aka Operation Crazy Ivan) some broken panzer regiments have shown up in some battles, as reserves. Yes, there is a small carpet of German units behind the frontline.

That makes me think he plans to use the armored units as a defensive tool.

And first direct consequence: in this scenario I could be able to use some tank armies in the offensive area (they were waiting for hypothetical offensive enemy moves), to fully recreate the soviet doctrine: 1st echelon strikes -> 2nd echelon advances and strikes -> armored hordes advance and strike.

In fact I have already done this this turn. The 1st Tank Army appeared, trashing a German division. Die pigs die!

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/12/2012 6:53:07 PM   
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Wow. He basically sent up two panzer corps. That is some serious bully action, but if he wants to party with armor in that terrain and at the extreme end of the line, more power to him.

I wonder how long he will hang out there, because I do like the idea of making the short drive to the lake to cut those armored units off up there. He can get them back through or around, but it will take some time.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/12/2012 7:29:12 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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I suspect he simply wants a solid line everywhere

He has clearly understood the Finns have nothing to do here (the poor things ) so he is trying to strenghten this weak spot. To have a "solid" line everywhere that is.

That's how I see it. Because an offensive really up north does not make any sense. Or I am missing something.

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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/12/2012 7:30:03 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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As I had said some moons ago here is the whole front, close view.

Part I




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/12/2012 7:30:51 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Part II




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RE: Death to Marquo! - 11/12/2012 7:31:36 PM   
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And finally Part III




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