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Help with soviet airbase creation

 
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Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 7:54:19 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Could someone please explain how this works for I cannot find a good explaination for it in the manual.

At the moment all my onmap airbases are filled up, some even over their support limit. I have 10.713 airplanes in 358 groups in the national reserve. Yet the automatic routine decides that I have enough airbases and creates zero?

I was hopeing the latest beta would solve this but after I installed it I recived a NBAD base (which I donīt need) and then nothing the turn after.

This is starting to get extremly frustrating...
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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 9:41:20 AM   
Helpless


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It calculates the ration between on map air groups vs appropriate air bases. Since there was a bug in calculation nbap, it is expected that they will be created more often. You can influence it by moving some U-2VS groups to the national reserve.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 10:45:27 AM   
Flaviusx


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An even better way to influence it would be to move U2VS factories into cities the Axis will capture.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 11:13:20 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Well, I donīt want to criticise but I think something is wrong or bugged?

As I saíd I have filled out all my airbases. Most are within supportlimits but all fighterbases are filled out with 9 groups. All except the 27th IAD PVO base which is frozen with 3 airgroups. I have 218 fightergroups totalling 6684 planes in the national reserve. Yet the system didnīt create ANY airbase at all last turn. No airbase of ANY kind. In fact I have only recieved around 10-12 ShAD bases and one NBAD base from the beginning. I started with the .28? beta 41 CG I have the latest beta. Its now turn 115.

If 6800 planes are not enough for the system to create a fighter base how many is needed? 20.000? I find it hard to belive that the Soviets hade almost 7000 of their most modern fighters stashed away in reserve during 43?

Again, I donīt want to criticise but I think something is not working as intended. If it does I think it should be changed.

My main question boils down to: How do I get more fighterbases? Or ANY base at all? I have 11.000 airplanes in reserv which I canīt use atm.




< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/1/2011 11:14:56 AM >

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 11:47:29 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

An even better way to influence it would be to move U2VS factories into cities the Axis will capture.


Wait till I make supply interdiction to work. ;)

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 11:48:15 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

I donīt want to criticise but I think something is not working as intended.


Please post a save on tech forum. Last time I did a check in debugger it worked as advertised.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 11:49:05 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

My main question boils down to: How do I get more fighterbases? Or ANY base at all? I have 11.000 airplanes in reserv which I canīt use atm.


Fighters can fly from any base. Base naming is totally irrelevant except the VVS/BAD for partisan supplies.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 11:55:49 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Yes I know. But the problem is that I donīt get ANY airbases despite having over 12000 airplanes in the national reserve...

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 12:06:37 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Save attached in the tech support forum.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 12:37:44 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

But the problem is that I donīt get ANY airbases despite having over 12000 airplanes in the national reserve...


You won't get any if air planes are in NR.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 12:41:50 PM   
JocMeister

 

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How do I get them then? All airbases are filled up to their supportlimit except IA bases which are maxed out with 9 airgroups?

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 12:44:29 PM   
Helpless


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Now I'm confused. Do you get 0, or some with the names you don't expect?

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 12:54:04 PM   
JocMeister

 

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I get 0. None at all.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 1:02:50 PM   
Helpless


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You have 494 air groups and 85 air bases. The ratio is 5.8. Which below 6 to get new air base created.


However I found the problem in calculating amount of NBAD, so they will get created more often then they should. This is a bug.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 1:06:52 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Okay, So the groups in national reserv ARE counted when calculating the ratio? Iīm very confused atm...

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 1:09:16 PM   
Helpless


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No, they are not. You have 853 air groups in total.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 1:13:57 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Yes with the groups in NR its 853?

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 1:20:37 PM   
Helpless


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Once again. You should take totals subtract amount in NR and divide this value by amount of air bases. If ratio above six, new air base creation is triggered. I think it should be in manual and patch notes.

(853-359)/85 = 5.8

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 1:32:19 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Joc Meister, I guess you have to be in 1942. This is what I did on my last game to accelerate the creation of new Air Bases.

1) send air units from the National Reserve to ON MAP air bases
2) disband SAD air bases

2) is recommended. Starting in 1942 one SAD air base will be disbanded per turn. Its planes will be sent to the National Reserve. Now imagine you have the Kalinin Front. Let's say all your tactical bombers are in one SAD air base. If that base is disbanded, your front will have lost its tactical bombers (or fighters, level bombers) for one turn. So be aware of this.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 1:34:55 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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It's chrome but perhaps you should stay organized. IAD for fighters BAD for level bombers. Then SAD for tactical. What you want is get rid of the SAD thing and get new ShAD instead (for tactical bombers that is). Well, you can put your planes where you want but that's in my opinion chaotic

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 10/1/2011 1:52:48 PM >


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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/1/2011 11:13:19 PM   
Speedy

 

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Tullius is right. Once you get to 42 and your SAD's have gone you'll be above the minimum required threshold and airbases will be created. Thank your lucky stars I pointed out to Pav about the type bug as my airforce has a load of SHaD and NBAP

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/2/2011 1:24:10 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Tullius is right. Once you get to 42 and your SAD's have gone you'll be above the minimum required threshold and airbases will be created. Thank your lucky stars I pointed out to Pav about the type bug as my airforce has a load of SHaD and NBAP

That's right. It's just one of the many things that Speedy's broken in the game...

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/2/2011 9:49:48 AM   
Speedy

 

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I break to fix....it's our job right?

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/2/2011 10:14:50 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Thank you Tullius and Helpless! I think I understand how it works now!

But what I donīt understand is this: Doesnīt this system force us to overload our airbases way over the supportlimit in order to get new airbases? Basically you need to have more then six units attached to each airbase (on average) to trigger the spawning of a new airbase? Thus forcing us to overload almost every airbase. Considering 2-3 IL-4 groups is enough to surpass the supportlimit of an airbase... Either I still doesnt get how it works or its a very far from perfect system?

Besides, Even if should get a Airbase each turn and considering new arrivals of airgroups I would never be able to place all the groups in NR on map. The rate of one airbase per turn is way to low for that. Right?



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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/2/2011 11:35:05 AM   
Speedy

 

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Hi JM,

You're right in that it's tough to get everything in play and there is a lack of human control in this. Is it perfect? No. Is it workable? Yes.

Accepting that the only airbases that have specific code affecting mission type is VVS I have fighters in SHaD etc. The best approach to maximise deployment of air units is to place all of your fighters and tacs in new airbases. That way you can add 9 new units to an airbase every turn increasing the chance of more airbases being created.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/2/2011 12:02:19 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Speedy, Thank you for taking the time to anwer!

Yes, But adding 9 units will overload the airbase and making it more or less inoperable? And just overloading one base will be far from enough so basically I have to overload all or most of my airbases in order to get new airbases? This also leads me to think that I shouldnīt use heavy bombers or for that matter any plane with high support need? That would allow me to get more bases without having to heavy overload everything. But still overloading. Using IL-4 seems like a very bad idea with this system since 2-3 groups are enough to overload a base.
Also, not counting the arrivals of new airgroups it would take around 45 turns to get the 12.000 planes stuck in NR on map.

I donīt want to cry wolf but to me it seems like this system is more or less broken? This canīt be the way it was meant to work? Why was the NR removed from the calculation some patches ago? It would work somewhat better with to older calculation. To be honest I canīt really understand why the system is in place at all. Everything else is left to the Soviet player to create at will but not this? Wouldnīt it be better to just simply allow the player to create a base at will, or is there balancing issues I am not aware of?

If left in place it would perhaps be better to base the formula solely on the groups IN the National reserve instead of on map? Planes in NR are often surplus that you wanīt to get on the map?







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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/2/2011 12:33:59 PM   
Speedy

 

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I'm with you in that I'd love to be able to hve the ability to create an airbase of the type I want.

It is workable though. This is how I do it:

I use pe-2 as much as poss (as well as the pretty decent US imports) as my LB's. You can have 6 of these in an airbase before support is a prob IMO.

Then you can put 9 tac or 9 fighter units in an airbase without support problems.

This method will ensure you'll have greater than the 6 unit average needed for airbase creation.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/2/2011 1:04:42 PM   
Helpless


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Most of the problems are due to the low air combat losses. We are trying to make it more intensive, but passive AI and passive human game play (moving a lot to NR) can negate the efforts.

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RE: Help with soviet airbase creation - 10/2/2011 1:20:16 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Speedy,

Thanks for the advice! Iīll try it out!

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