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New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available

 
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New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 12:44:18 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Hello All,

We have a new version of the 1.05 Public Beta in the Members Club. This includes Scenario, Editor, and OB changes, in addition to a few bug fixes.

Please remember this is a beta, any feedback is appreciated.

Change List
V1.05.28 – September 29, 2011

• New Features and Rule Changes

1) New Rule – Poorly supplied units can lose morale. If at the end of the logistics phase a unit has less than 20% of needed supplies, it has a chance of losing 1 morale point. If the value is less than 10% there is a chance of losing 2 morale points.
2) New Rule – Supplies and fuel will now be moved to cities closer to HQ’s before being sent to the HQ’s and units.
3) New Rule – When Rumania surrenders, hexes that convert to Soviet control will only have their rails damaged if they are adjacent to a German unit.
4) New Rule – Ground elements that have a build cost of 9999 will never be produced (this was always intended but was never added to the code until now).
5) Rule Change – Reduced front line attrition by 30-50%. In addition, Static units will now only suffer half of the normal front line attrition.
6) Rule Change – Partisan attacks are now allowed in hexes adjacent to combat units).
7) Rule Change – Fighter sweeps will now sometimes get attack bonuses when attacking enemy CAP.
8) Formula Change – Removed change #42 in 1.05.18 version which had increased the impact of pilot fatigue.
9) Formula change – Increased the MP/SMP loss due to interdiction attacks.
10) Editor Change – Completely reworked the withdrawal system. Old games should be unaffected. Withdrawal lists are obsolete. Withdrawals are now set by setting withdraw turn for the individual units. Divided (sub units) should be set to the same withdraw turn automatically. Soviet units can now be set to be withdrawn. Soviet units that are withdrawing may not be used to “build-up” to another unit. Soviet Corps set to withdraw may not be broken down. Added the ability to filter all withdrawing units in the CR screen.
11) Editor Change – Removed the TacBomber and LevelBomber experience penalty when setting pilot quality or rebuilding air units.
12) Improved AI – Improved the German AI garrisoning of Budapest in the later stages of the war.

• Bug Fixes

1) Fixed a bug preventing fort levels from being built over level 2 when in a hex with a Fort unit.
2) Fixed a naming bug when creating new Soviet Air Bases.
3) Fixed a bug that was causing production not to be working properly in off rail cities. Also, made a change to prevent off rail cities from starving.
4) Fixed a bug where Air Command HQ’s were used incorrectly in some calculations.
5) Fixed a bug where the Air HQ information in the battle reports was not being reported correctly.
6) Fixed a bug where fort values were not always reset upon capture.
7) Fixed a bug with production of certain ground elements using Armaments

• Data and Scenario Changes

1) Added some new German unit OBs.
2) Reduced starting German Armaments pool to 100k (from 500k) to offset the impact of the change with ground elements that have a cost of 9999.

Changes in 1.05.23
Changes in 1.05.18

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 1
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 12:59:00 AM   
tony luke

 

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Thanks guys, cracking good work as usual.

Tony

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 2
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 1:53:22 AM   
marty_01

 

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quote:

5) Rule Change – Reduced front line attrition by 30-50%. In addition, Static units will now only suffer half of the normal front line attrition


This might actually result in 1942 of a GC41-45 scenario actually looking somewhat like the start of the GC42-45 scenario. I like the sound of this change as it mean a bit more icentive for placing units in static mode aside from trying to gain more admin points or the somewhat nebulous addition of trucks into the truck pool.

quote:

2) Reduced starting German Armaments pool to 100k (from 500k) to offset the impact of the change with ground elements that have a cost of 9999.


This particular item I don't get. And yes I have followed the Tech thread disscussing the 47mm ATG production cost issues. If this 47mm ATG thingy was an unknown error why is it's discovery seemingly resulting in a massive reduction in the Axis starting armament points pool? I'm Not following the logic in this particular change?

(in reply to tony luke)
Post #: 3
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 2:08:10 AM   
pompack


Posts: 2520
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From: University Park, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty_01


quote:

2) Reduced starting German Armaments pool to 100k (from 500k) to offset the impact of the change with ground elements that have a cost of 9999.


This particular item I don't get. And yes I have followed the Tech thread disscussing the 47mm ATG production cost issues. If this 47mm ATG thingy was an unknown error why is it's discovery seemingly resulting in a massive reduction in the Axis starting armament points pool? I'm Not following the logic in this particular change?



Simple

Testing about umpity years ago showed Germans running out of armaments points in September 41 (or thereabouts) when historically they were still keeping up with losses. Since the devs didn't know about the 9999 bug, they decided that initial stockpiles were too low. So they increased them to maintain historical accuracy of production (and production is hard to model, but initial stockpiles are EXTREMELY hard to model due to insufficient data on such matters as work-in-process stockpiles at Krupps in Essen for example).

And that's how it happened

Now fixing the 9999 bug but keeping the 500k initial stockpile gives the Germans WAY too much produciton capability the first six months according to the testing they have done. So they reduced the initial stockpile back to what they thought it should have been to start with.

of course, I don't really KNOW any of this, but this is the picture I have gotten from reading many public posts the testers made in the last few days

< Message edited by pompack -- 10/1/2011 2:09:24 AM >

(in reply to marty_01)
Post #: 4
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 2:35:44 AM   
marty_01

 

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In other words the fix wasnt needed cause one error was already being compensated for by another error. hmmm...more black box ****.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 5
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 3:08:54 AM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty_01

In other words the fix wasnt needed cause one error was already being compensated for by another error. hmmm...more black box ****.

you're entitled to your opinion of course

(in reply to marty_01)
Post #: 6
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 5:11:12 AM   
Michael T


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6) Rule Change – Partisan attacks are now allowed in hexes adjacent to combat units).

Sorry I don't like this one at all.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 7
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 5:14:46 AM   
Flaviusx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

6) Rule Change – Partisan attacks are now allowed in hexes adjacent to combat units).

Sorry I don't like this one at all.


You can thank the guy who was dropping forts on every 3rd hex of his rail lines for this rule change.



_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 8
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 7:20:34 AM   
Michael T


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I hate it when east front games force me to play the anti partisan war. I want to play the operational campaign.

I say get rid of it all together and apply a global supply/rail cap modifier based on the level of garrison comittment plus some random element.

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'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 9
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 7:46:29 AM   
shane_056

 

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G'Day,
could you please detail what the OB changes are so I can manually update my own GC scenario with the changes I want to implement..
Thanks ..shane

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 10
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 9:42:43 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

I hate it when east front games force me to play the anti partisan war. I want to play the operational campaign.


It does force you to diverse rail line repairs instead of building fort units on the single line.

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WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 11
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 11:24:06 AM   
von altair


Posts: 291
Joined: 4/27/2004
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

4) New Rule – Ground elements that have a build cost of 9999 will never be produced (this was always intended but was never added to the code until now).

2) Reduced starting German Armaments pool to 100k (from 500k) to offset the impact of the change with ground elements that have a cost of 9999.


Can you please be more specified with this "ground elements". Was there other units as well than AT-47mm? I would like to
know should I edit my current games armaments pool somehow to balance it to the right amount. For example my current game
is at turn 8 and 55 AT-47mm has been built. Those AT guns has been soaking 550k arms from my game.

So the big question is, did this patch compensate the bug in current games or should I add that 100k mentioned in 2) ?


_____________________________

"An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?"

"Do you not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?"

-Axel Oxenstierna

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 12
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 3:15:00 PM   
gingerbread


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I think some some tender love and care should be given to the Axis Allies in the form of ARM points. Most playtesting has been done when they recieved ARM from the now shrunk pool of German ARM. Until 1.05.18 they got 20k or so each, from .18 and forward it was 5 times 1k (it took aprox 5 turns to build enough 47 mm to get the pool below 100k). Now they get 0. To add insult to injury, Hungary is prioritizing their air defences - they build 40mm flak with 80% of the ARM they produce for the first turns.

I suggest each Ally get 15k each - the Soviets still get 1M and that's a rabbit pulled out of a hat.

"Hey guys, we found 200 brand new 152mm howitsers in an abandoned warehouse outside Gorky, you want them?"

(in reply to von altair)
Post #: 13
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 3:29:01 PM   
Ketza


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From: Columbia, Maryland
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I never knew forts chased away partisans. I just spend 5 minutes each turn chasing the little buggers around

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 14
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 5:43:17 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I never knew forts chased away partisans.


LOL

Aaaaah, the human creativity... I guess we will never know who did this cheap -and yet effective- little trick

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(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 15
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 6:11:08 PM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

6) Rule Change – Partisan attacks are now allowed in hexes adjacent to combat units).

Sorry I don't like this one at all.


You can thank the guy who was dropping forts on every 3rd hex of his rail lines for this rule change.



Since a fort is not a combat unit, that is a non sequitur.

But when is a patch going to make historical use of the captured equipment facility already included in the game?

< Message edited by Mehring -- 10/1/2011 6:13:10 PM >


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(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 16
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 6:54:58 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21524
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From: Santa Rosa, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: von altair


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

4) New Rule – Ground elements that have a build cost of 9999 will never be produced (this was always intended but was never added to the code until now).

2) Reduced starting German Armaments pool to 100k (from 500k) to offset the impact of the change with ground elements that have a cost of 9999.


Can you please be more specified with this "ground elements". Was there other units as well than AT-47mm? I would like to
know should I edit my current games armaments pool somehow to balance it to the right amount. For example my current game
is at turn 8 and 55 AT-47mm has been built. Those AT guns has been soaking 550k arms from my game.

So the big question is, did this patch compensate the bug in current games or should I add that 100k mentioned in 2) ?




There were other items that were 9999, but we don't know of any others that were actually getting built. We reduced the German armaments in the latest version of the 41 GC by 500k. If you've had 55 built, then you have lost 50k more than you should have to this point. With the patch you won't lose any additional as the item won't be built. That's not far off, so you should be able to continue on just fine.

_____________________________

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(in reply to von altair)
Post #: 17
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 6:56:32 PM   
Joel Billings


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring


But when is a patch going to make historical use of the captured equipment facility already included in the game?



I'm not sure what you mean. To my knowledge the routine is working and some captured equipment will eventually be used.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 18
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 8:32:03 PM   
Bletchley_Geek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring
Since a fort is not a combat unit, that is a non sequitur.


Forts with CV > 0 are. That's the actual definition of "combat unit": on-map unit with CV greater than zero.

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 19
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 8:45:34 PM   
IronDuke

 

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How much of this will apply to a newly started game?

Everything bar the data changes?

If so, what effects should I expect to see in a game continued under this, but started under the last beta 5 patch?

Thanks and regards,
ID

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 20
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 8:53:32 PM   
Joel Billings


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Everything should go right over except for the data changes. You shouldn't seen any earth shattering changes from the earlier 1.05 and things should continue just fine. If you are only a few turns into the game and few 47mm AT guns were built, then the Germans will end up with more armaments than they should. If lots had been built, then the Germans will net less than they should have. The breakeven point is 50 47mm AT guns built.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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(in reply to IronDuke)
Post #: 21
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/1/2011 10:04:38 PM   
Stoat


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Woot! Thanks! Time to start a new GC. Still cravenly playing 1P atm...

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Post #: 22
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/2/2011 7:26:52 AM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I never knew forts chased away partisans.


LOL

Aaaaah, the human creativity... I guess we will never know who did this cheap -and yet effective- little trick


Brothers, I have sinned!

I have practiced it, though not with only using a single rail line. I can understand why it is being removed though, if it was open to abuse. I do not feel I was abusing it. I started doing it under that version which had the rear areas crawling with partisans in august 41.

From a realism standpoint, as those forts cost a lot of resources I think it is a tradeoff for the Axis if you want to spend manpower and armaments on securing your lines of communications. But, as I said, if it was abused, then I feel fine with it being removed.

As for who invented it, I learned the trick from Andy (Sabre21) who mentioned it on the forums.

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 23
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/2/2011 7:32:19 AM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

5) Rule Change – Reduced front line attrition by 30-50%. In addition, Static units will now only suffer half of the normal front line attrition.


This seems like a change that could have a pretty big impact! Finally, Delatbabel, here it is! Wishes do come true somtimes!

I think the static thing is good, it gives a reason to put units in static. I have a very long immobile front north of Moscow on my game vs gids, so with this change I am thinkig of putting units in static up there.

Thnks guys for the update!

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 24
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/2/2011 1:39:16 PM   
Michael T


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From: Queensland, Australia.
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quote:

It does force you to diverse rail line repairs instead of building fort units on the single line.


Well if you are so intent on only allowing one Rail dude per line why allow more than one it in the first place?

Why are you so intent on not allowing the Germans to increase rail security if they so choose?

Sorry this smells of scripting the partisan war. Again I say why have it at all if you are intent on forcing an historical result no matter what the Germans do. Surely a game of this scope that is trying to include a partisan war should allow a greater effort by the Germans to be rewarded. Why no beneift for garrisons that are over 100%? I would suggest a rule change that if a garrison has a level over 100% then it should help hinder partisan ops within a radius of the city.

Its a bit of one way traffic here in favour of Ivan. There should be a way for the Axis to increase his rail security if he so desires. At the moment there is none. Thats why people build forts along the tracks in the first place. You offer no alternative.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 25
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/2/2011 2:15:14 PM   
Q-Ball


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The Static rule wasn't discussed at all in advance, and few have noticed, but Tarhunnas did. That is a significant change. This is a reason now for the Germans to put alot of the front in Static mode, which they did historically.

If I am playing Germany, I would make sure though to always keep 100-ish APs in the pool to re-activate units in the event there is a problem.

I think the Soviets will probably not be able to use static much in 1942, except vs. the Finns. But in '43-44, it will allow them to reduce the significant attrition losses they would otherwise suffer along quiet stretches of the front.

I like the rule on surface; there is a good reason now to go on Static

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 26
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/2/2011 3:09:08 PM   
Tazak

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
2) New Rule – Supplies and fuel will now be moved to cities closer to HQ’s before being sent to the HQ’s and units.


Could someone explain this one please
I'm a fairly new player and I've noticed that during the first few weeks of a 41 GC that my panzers seem to struggle more for fuel than before. example would be Pg Grp4 using the riga gambit move where before i would normally wait until the end of T2 before pulling supplies from Riga via sea routes, now i have to hold back until T3 or T4 before my panzers have fuel to move forward, Pz Grp 2 & 3 are the same once Minsk falls

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 27
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/3/2011 2:24:22 AM   
Michael T


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quote:

2) New Rule – Supplies and fuel will now be moved to cities closer to HQ’s before being sent to the HQ’s and units.


I am curious about this too. What is the intention/effect?

_____________________________

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------------------

(in reply to Tazak)
Post #: 28
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/3/2011 3:16:43 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


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Were I the assuming type, I would imagine that it probably is the start of a more in depth supply system.

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(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 29
RE: New v1.05.28 Public Beta Update Available - 10/3/2011 4:07:42 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

Were I the assuming type, I would imagine that it probably is the start of a more in depth supply system.

I don't want to panic anybody, but I think I found some pretty serious bugs with it. Reported in the beta testers forum. It's a possibility that this is a transitional problem, until the supplies get distributed to the staging cities, but I'm not sure and am awaiting a reply.

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 30
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