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RE: waw update

 
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RE: waw update - 2/19/2012 8:47:23 AM   
bwheatley

 

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The barracks are there to the hex NW of chungking. Next version i will actually default them building infantry heh.

You think soviets need tech 3 tanks? I did but i got people telling me that made it too hard for germany to win.


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Post #: 61
RE: waw update - 2/19/2012 11:18:06 AM   
zzmzzm

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 10/24/2010
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I agree Su should have tech 3 tanks. German need to use their troops with high EXP well. But now when Su build medium tanks III, there com out heavy tanks III. This is a problem.

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Post #: 62
RE: waw update - 2/20/2012 9:31:09 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3345
Joined: 12/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zzmzzm

I agree Su should have tech 3 tanks. German need to use their troops with high EXP well. But now when Su build medium tanks III, there com out heavy tanks III. This is a problem.


Yea i was thinking of breaking down the research tree a bit more to make different types of tanks require different research.

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Post #: 63
RE: waw update - 2/26/2012 11:53:02 AM   
cveta


Posts: 340
Joined: 1/4/2010
From: Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all

I was inactive on forum for some time. Sorry for that.
Just finished my game with zzyzzm and he give me a real beating. Few thoughts about the game now. We are playing v2.1 - written in briffing of the game( with costal batteries included, with air stucking penalty, and ect, ect. )
1 - Su enter the war early becouse I plaed axis minor card ( all of them, Finladn, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary ). That instantly wake SU. Not fair, not historical. At this point Germany usualy fights in Greece, Africa, Norway, and must hold France becouse of England air attacks. If Su jumps in the game at this point Germany is doomed.
2 - Su may boost a production easy. Transfering the citiec behind Urals bring 500 per city. If he do that for all cities he may build so many factories that SU become unstopable. And with thch III on tanks Germany cannot counter that. Especialy that Germany cannot have any tech higher than II in 1941. I alredy in April 1941 have all tech upgrade done, and cannot by anything level III. Is this a bug?
3 - Italy - well it is stupid that Italy starts with 500 fuel only. Italy cannot move all planes and ships first turn. Also - I have a realy sirius thoughts about simple giving all Italy lands and units to Germany. And than I dont have to send PP and uniots to Italy, but simply convert all Italian ubits and cities to Germany control 1st turn. This is not fair. I dont think that country should give each other a cities and units. There should be a limit for that. . MAybe a city may produce for anather country, but not to give whole armies .

And please check battle balance. I got creamed up with 40 fighters lev II attacking inf units and I have 40 fighters lev II in defence. I lost whole HQ in France to attack executed by some 50 fighters lev II althou my HQ was defended by 15 flaks II. enemy lost 2-3 planes althou he executed few attacks to completly wipe out my hq. On the other hand- when Germany executed similar attacks if there is any flak units invlved I never lose under 5 fighters in a single attacks.
Arty units after attacks have too low redyness after contra arty fire. This is also not good. Arty should be redy to attack turn after turn. No mater of contry battery fire. Same as units that attack - it stay with ow redyness, and need to rest for a 1-2 turn to attack again.
LAst thing - how will Italy advance in NA when engeneers cannot build forts in sand? It should be done.
4 - I am looking for a new player 1 on 1 or 2 ws 2 in new version. If anybady wont to jump in contact me pls. gcvetojevic@mail.com What is a new version anyway??

Goran

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Post #: 64
RE: waw update - 2/26/2012 12:03:39 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 1575
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cveta
...
1 - Su enter the war early becouse I plaed axis minor card ( all of them, Finladn, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary ). That instantly wake SU. Not fair, not historical. At this point Germany usualy fights in Greece, Africa, Norway, and must hold France becouse of England air attacks. If Su jumps in the game at this point Germany is doomed.
...


Well, forcing the Axis minors to join you before they would originally is also not historical. I for one don´t see this as a problem.

(in reply to cveta)
Post #: 65
RE: waw update - 2/26/2012 12:34:48 PM   
zzmzzm

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 10/24/2010
Status: offline
German should not let all axis minor joined in. When I play as German, I only invited Yug and Romania in. If SU want to declare war , SU will need 600 PPs.

The planes will loss 66% efficiency when they are attacked in their airfield in the first battle turn. They loss 33% in the next turn. So when you see the very powerful planes were defeated in their own airfield , it is normal. My friend in China tell me that which I don't know before too. These rules is defined in rule 835th and 836th. You can check it.

And I transported the coastal defence from Sevastopol to Leningrad by trains. So if you do air attack on Leningrad , you will have a high loss. The coastal defence is very powerful , you will notice I dare not to air attack your Taranto.

I think this mod is very good except only some little flaws I have said before.

< Message edited by zzmzzm -- 2/26/2012 12:39:05 PM >

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 66
RE: waw update - 2/26/2012 5:45:50 PM   
Kraftwerk

 

Posts: 390
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: cveta
...
1 - Su enter the war early becouse I plaed axis minor card ( all of them, Finladn, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary ). That instantly wake SU. Not fair, not historical. At this point Germany usualy fights in Greece, Africa, Norway, and must hold France becouse of England air attacks. If Su jumps in the game at this point Germany is doomed.
...


Well, forcing the Axis minors to join you before they would originally is also not historical. I for one don´t see this as a problem.



Agreed.

Stalin had his forces positioned for an attack on germany since Poland was split. The soviets invading Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania was a direct response to the axis annexation and puppet regimes. Had germany moved faster, russia surely would of as well.

In all fairness, attacking the soviet union period, should doom germany. Its unwinnable. As it should be. Its simply too massive, with too high a manpower threshold that must be broken.

Perhaps if you take out england, can keep the US out of the war, and Japan helps you attack from the east.

Thats really the only way germany should ever beat the soviet union if you want to keep any sort of realism.

Germanys goal should be total control of europe, including england, prevention of the united states entering the war, preventing intervention by the soviet union at all costs, and helping Japan become a power that can either help defeat the soviet union, or keep it in check. All the game mechanics should revolve around that paradigm. The allies trying to get everyone into the war as soon as possible, and germany trying to prevent any more joining the war than they can handle.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 67
RE: waw update - 2/26/2012 7:28:03 PM   
stone10


Posts: 240
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cveta

Hi all

I was inactive on forum for some time. Sorry for that.
Just finished my game with zzyzzm and he give me a real beating. Few thoughts about the game now. We are playing v2.1 - written in briffing of the game( with costal batteries included, with air stucking penalty, and ect, ect. )
1 - Su enter the war early becouse I plaed axis minor card ( all of them, Finladn, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary ). That instantly wake SU. Not fair, not historical. At this point Germany usualy fights in Greece, Africa, Norway, and must hold France becouse of England air attacks. If Su jumps in the game at this point Germany is doomed.
2 - Su may boost a production easy. Transfering the citiec behind Urals bring 500 per city. If he do that for all cities he may build so many factories that SU become unstopable. And with thch III on tanks Germany cannot counter that. Especialy that Germany cannot have any tech higher than II in 1941. I alredy in April 1941 have all tech upgrade done, and cannot by anything level III. Is this a bug?
3 - Italy - well it is stupid that Italy starts with 500 fuel only. Italy cannot move all planes and ships first turn. Also - I have a realy sirius thoughts about simple giving all Italy lands and units to Germany. And than I dont have to send PP and uniots to Italy, but simply convert all Italian ubits and cities to Germany control 1st turn. This is not fair. I dont think that country should give each other a cities and units. There should be a limit for that. . MAybe a city may produce for anather country, but not to give whole armies .

And please check battle balance. I got creamed up with 40 fighters lev II attacking inf units and I have 40 fighters lev II in defence. I lost whole HQ in France to attack executed by some 50 fighters lev II althou my HQ was defended by 15 flaks II. enemy lost 2-3 planes althou he executed few attacks to completly wipe out my hq. On the other hand- when Germany executed similar attacks if there is any flak units invlved I never lose under 5 fighters in a single attacks.
Arty units after attacks have too low redyness after contra arty fire. This is also not good. Arty should be redy to attack turn after turn. No mater of contry battery fire. Same as units that attack - it stay with ow redyness, and need to rest for a 1-2 turn to attack again.
LAst thing - how will Italy advance in NA when engeneers cannot build forts in sand? It should be done.
4 - I am looking for a new player 1 on 1 or 2 ws 2 in new version. If anybady wont to jump in contact me pls. gcvetojevic@mail.com What is a new version anyway??

Goran



He really spend some time to analyze how to maximize factories as Soviets. e.g. most people would move Riga on turn 1 to research 75%(own) production. But according to zzmzmy's calculation, that's a waste.... If you play as the Soviets once, you would know how hard it is. The Germans can easily boost production with european production card and you will never ever out produce the German player.
Anyways, he just plays better than others.

1. Finland+Yugoslavia+Romania+Bulgaria+Hungary won't wake up the soviets. you must did something else that wake soviets up, like cancel trade, invade turkey or the soviet player spend PP to increase initiative.

2. Transfer city won't give that much until the soviets got to 125% production. I saw zzmzmy's calculation, at the beginning of the war, the soviets should have: 20factories,1 capitol ,2 cities and several towns = 20*2000 + 10000 +2*2500 + towns = about 60000 production.
as for the germans, they should have 10 factories at least by that time, that's: 38000(Germans) + 10*2000(fac) + European? = 58000+European production. for European production, let's assume the germens didn't take norway, and done 150%(Euro) production research, that's 8*2500*1.5 = 30000 at least. (1city in poland, 3cities in france, 1city in finland, 3cities at least in balkan). So the Germans can get above 90000 production with no problem at all.

check the research limitation in the update log. Axis can research level III tech in 1942, not in 1941.

3.Agreed

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Post #: 68
RE: waw update - 2/27/2012 7:37:39 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3345
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cveta

Hi all

I was inactive on forum for some time. Sorry for that.
Just finished my game with zzyzzm and he give me a real beating. Few thoughts about the game now. We are playing v2.1 - written in briffing of the game( with costal batteries included, with air stucking penalty, and ect, ect. )
1 - Su enter the war early becouse I plaed axis minor card ( all of them, Finladn, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary ). That instantly wake SU. Not fair, not historical. At this point Germany usualy fights in Greece, Africa, Norway, and must hold France becouse of England air attacks. If Su jumps in the game at this point Germany is doomed.
2 - Su may boost a production easy. Transfering the citiec behind Urals bring 500 per city. If he do that for all cities he may build so many factories that SU become unstopable. And with thch III on tanks Germany cannot counter that. Especialy that Germany cannot have any tech higher than II in 1941. I alredy in April 1941 have all tech upgrade done, and cannot by anything level III. Is this a bug?
3 - Italy - well it is stupid that Italy starts with 500 fuel only. Italy cannot move all planes and ships first turn. Also - I have a realy sirius thoughts about simple giving all Italy lands and units to Germany. And than I dont have to send PP and uniots to Italy, but simply convert all Italian ubits and cities to Germany control 1st turn. This is not fair. I dont think that country should give each other a cities and units. There should be a limit for that. . MAybe a city may produce for anather country, but not to give whole armies .

And please check battle balance. I got creamed up with 40 fighters lev II attacking inf units and I have 40 fighters lev II in defence. I lost whole HQ in France to attack executed by some 50 fighters lev II althou my HQ was defended by 15 flaks II. enemy lost 2-3 planes althou he executed few attacks to completly wipe out my hq. On the other hand- when Germany executed similar attacks if there is any flak units invlved I never lose under 5 fighters in a single attacks.
Arty units after attacks have too low redyness after contra arty fire. This is also not good. Arty should be redy to attack turn after turn. No mater of contry battery fire. Same as units that attack - it stay with ow redyness, and need to rest for a 1-2 turn to attack again.
LAst thing - how will Italy advance in NA when engeneers cannot build forts in sand? It should be done.
4 - I am looking for a new player 1 on 1 or 2 ws 2 in new version. If anybady wont to jump in contact me pls. gcvetojevic@mail.com What is a new version anyway??

Goran



Yea 82nd was telling me about the soviet attack thing too and i'll be tweaking that shortly.
Soviet tank has been reset to 2 not 3 now as well.
The research is listed in the doc

I'll add to the list to up italy's fuel. And i will look about building in sand. You can't build factories but you should be able to build entrenchments.

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(in reply to cveta)
Post #: 69
RE: waw update - 2/27/2012 7:38:30 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3345
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cveta

Hi all

I was inactive on forum for some time. Sorry for that.
Just finished my game with zzyzzm and he give me a real beating. Few thoughts about the game now. We are playing v2.1 - written in briffing of the game( with costal batteries included, with air stucking penalty, and ect, ect. )
1 - Su enter the war early becouse I plaed axis minor card ( all of them, Finladn, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary ). That instantly wake SU. Not fair, not historical. At this point Germany usualy fights in Greece, Africa, Norway, and must hold France becouse of England air attacks. If Su jumps in the game at this point Germany is doomed.
2 - Su may boost a production easy. Transfering the citiec behind Urals bring 500 per city. If he do that for all cities he may build so many factories that SU become unstopable. And with thch III on tanks Germany cannot counter that. Especialy that Germany cannot have any tech higher than II in 1941. I alredy in April 1941 have all tech upgrade done, and cannot by anything level III. Is this a bug?
3 - Italy - well it is stupid that Italy starts with 500 fuel only. Italy cannot move all planes and ships first turn. Also - I have a realy sirius thoughts about simple giving all Italy lands and units to Germany. And than I dont have to send PP and uniots to Italy, but simply convert all Italian ubits and cities to Germany control 1st turn. This is not fair. I dont think that country should give each other a cities and units. There should be a limit for that. . MAybe a city may produce for anather country, but not to give whole armies .

And please check battle balance. I got creamed up with 40 fighters lev II attacking inf units and I have 40 fighters lev II in defence. I lost whole HQ in France to attack executed by some 50 fighters lev II althou my HQ was defended by 15 flaks II. enemy lost 2-3 planes althou he executed few attacks to completly wipe out my hq. On the other hand- when Germany executed similar attacks if there is any flak units invlved I never lose under 5 fighters in a single attacks.
Arty units after attacks have too low redyness after contra arty fire. This is also not good. Arty should be redy to attack turn after turn. No mater of contry battery fire. Same as units that attack - it stay with ow redyness, and need to rest for a 1-2 turn to attack again.
LAst thing - how will Italy advance in NA when engeneers cannot build forts in sand? It should be done.
4 - I am looking for a new player 1 on 1 or 2 ws 2 in new version. If anybady wont to jump in contact me pls. gcvetojevic@mail.com What is a new version anyway??

Goran



Yea 82nd was telling me about the soviet attack thing too and i'll be tweaking that shortly.
Soviet tank has been reset to 2 not 3 now as well.
The research is listed in the doc

I'll add to the list to up italy's fuel. And i will look about building in sand. You can't build factories but you should be able to build entrenchments.

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to cveta)
Post #: 70
RE: waw update - 2/27/2012 7:42:01 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3345
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stone10


quote:

ORIGINAL: cveta

Hi all

I was inactive on forum for some time. Sorry for that.
Just finished my game with zzyzzm and he give me a real beating. Few thoughts about the game now. We are playing v2.1 - written in briffing of the game( with costal batteries included, with air stucking penalty, and ect, ect. )
1 - Su enter the war early becouse I plaed axis minor card ( all of them, Finladn, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary ). That instantly wake SU. Not fair, not historical. At this point Germany usualy fights in Greece, Africa, Norway, and must hold France becouse of England air attacks. If Su jumps in the game at this point Germany is doomed.
2 - Su may boost a production easy. Transfering the citiec behind Urals bring 500 per city. If he do that for all cities he may build so many factories that SU become unstopable. And with thch III on tanks Germany cannot counter that. Especialy that Germany cannot have any tech higher than II in 1941. I alredy in April 1941 have all tech upgrade done, and cannot by anything level III. Is this a bug?
3 - Italy - well it is stupid that Italy starts with 500 fuel only. Italy cannot move all planes and ships first turn. Also - I have a realy sirius thoughts about simple giving all Italy lands and units to Germany. And than I dont have to send PP and uniots to Italy, but simply convert all Italian ubits and cities to Germany control 1st turn. This is not fair. I dont think that country should give each other a cities and units. There should be a limit for that. . MAybe a city may produce for anather country, but not to give whole armies .

And please check battle balance. I got creamed up with 40 fighters lev II attacking inf units and I have 40 fighters lev II in defence. I lost whole HQ in France to attack executed by some 50 fighters lev II althou my HQ was defended by 15 flaks II. enemy lost 2-3 planes althou he executed few attacks to completly wipe out my hq. On the other hand- when Germany executed similar attacks if there is any flak units invlved I never lose under 5 fighters in a single attacks.
Arty units after attacks have too low redyness after contra arty fire. This is also not good. Arty should be redy to attack turn after turn. No mater of contry battery fire. Same as units that attack - it stay with ow redyness, and need to rest for a 1-2 turn to attack again.
LAst thing - how will Italy advance in NA when engeneers cannot build forts in sand? It should be done.
4 - I am looking for a new player 1 on 1 or 2 ws 2 in new version. If anybady wont to jump in contact me pls. gcvetojevic@mail.com What is a new version anyway??

Goran



He really spend some time to analyze how to maximize factories as Soviets. e.g. most people would move Riga on turn 1 to research 75%(own) production. But according to zzmzmy's calculation, that's a waste.... If you play as the Soviets once, you would know how hard it is. The Germans can easily boost production with european production card and you will never ever out produce the German player.
Anyways, he just plays better than others.

1. Finland+Yugoslavia+Romania+Bulgaria+Hungary won't wake up the soviets. you must did something else that wake soviets up, like cancel trade, invade turkey or the soviet player spend PP to increase initiative.

2. Transfer city won't give that much until the soviets got to 125% production. I saw zzmzmy's calculation, at the beginning of the war, the soviets should have: 20factories,1 capitol ,2 cities and several towns = 20*2000 + 10000 +2*2500 + towns = about 60000 production.
as for the germans, they should have 10 factories at least by that time, that's: 38000(Germans) + 10*2000(fac) + European? = 58000+European production. for European production, let's assume the germens didn't take norway, and done 150%(Euro) production research, that's 8*2500*1.5 = 30000 at least. (1city in poland, 3cities in france, 1city in finland, 3cities at least in balkan). So the Germans can get above 90000 production with no problem at all.

check the research limitation in the update log. Axis can research level III tech in 1942, not in 1941.

3.Agreed



Lordy I am hoping those numbers are not with the new mod. :) I added in all the manpower and econ stuff so that people wouldn't just resort to super spam factory building. And now that vic fixed that stringlist bug i reported i go back and retrofit the econ system the way i originally designed.

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(in reply to stone10)
Post #: 71
RE: waw update - 3/9/2012 10:46:22 AM   
cveta


Posts: 340
Joined: 1/4/2010
From: Croatia
Status: offline
I just started anather game - newest version. I will see how will things look up. I am west, and will take a look at the SU side

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(in reply to bwheatley)
Post #: 72
RE: waw update - 3/9/2012 6:58:47 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3345
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline
groovy.

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(in reply to cveta)
Post #: 73
RE: waw update - 3/11/2012 12:34:45 AM   
aspqrz

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cveta
3 - Italy - well it is stupid that Italy starts with 500 fuel only. Italy cannot move all planes and ships first turn.


You realise that, historically, this is 100% accurate?

Italy had virtually no domestic oil supplies, and Mussolini's amazingly careful prewar planning had created no stockpiles, either ... and he declared war when something like 80% of the entire Italian Merchant navy (already inadequate to the task) was in foreign ports, mostly French or British, where it was captured and interned or blockaded ... oh, and even if he'd had the entire Merchant Navy intact, the Italians had so few tankers anyway that they couldn't have shipped a significant amount of fuel around the Med (or anywhere else ... like everyone else, pretty much, they relied on US, UK or Norwegian flagged tankers for oil imports/transport ... and these became, of course, instantly unavailable).

Things were so bad that the main fuel supply for the Regia Marina was the Kriegsmarine's strategic reserves, and that onlyu because Hitler forced them to cough up minimal amounts. One result was the virtual enforced inactivity of the Regia Marina, especially the bigger fleet units, as there was barely enough fuel made available by Germany to keep their boilers ticking over in maintenance status, dockside.

And there was no way Germany could spare more, not without denuding her own operations of already scarce oil ... the Wehrmacht were already making strategic *and* operational decisions regarding unit movement and deployment from late 1940, and things just got worse and worse, they were never able to freely maneuver units, train or otherwise expend fuel like the allies could.

So, all in all, this is a historical reality that Italy has to be faced with.

Unless you prefer "Fantasy War II" rather than something at least resembling "World War II"?

Phil

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(in reply to cveta)
Post #: 74
RE: waw update - 6/25/2012 11:09:35 AM   
cveta


Posts: 340
Joined: 1/4/2010
From: Croatia
Status: offline
So is there any progers to WAW scenario? What is the latest veersion?
Thanks

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Post #: 75
RE: waw update - 7/7/2012 1:11:29 PM   
cveta


Posts: 340
Joined: 1/4/2010
From: Croatia
Status: offline
bwheatley - this link to newest version is not functional. Can you post a link to the newest version of WAW please. thanks

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Post #: 76
RE: waw update - 8/9/2012 5:54:01 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3345
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cveta

bwheatley - this link to newest version is not functional. Can you post a link to the newest version of WAW please. thanks

crap let me check <3

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Post #: 77
RE: waw update - 8/9/2012 5:58:03 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3345
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline
links all better i had been linking it off my personal website but had been dicking with it. For now i'm linking it off the witewiki site ;)

And i haven't messed with it i was still working with the "War in Europe" ATG scen.

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(in reply to cveta)
Post #: 78
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