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Regarding the AI?

 
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Regarding the AI? - 9/28/2011 1:29:50 PM   
Phenix

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 3/18/2004
Status: offline 		Hi now when all kind of changes is implemented for PBEM play (granted that these effect single play also), is there any work done on the AI for us that not (yet...) play PBEM.
Or do you consider the AI "good enough" ?
Post #: 1
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/28/2011 5:15:44 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18657
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Realistically AI work is complete and little more can be done. It is very complex code that in some ways has a mind of its own. Gary finds it very hard to make a change in one area without negatively impacting other areas. When we add new rules I always discuss with Gary if there is something that should be changed in the AI to account for the new rule. However, it is rare that a change can be made to improve things. So it is possible that over time the AI will become a little weaker than it was as rules change, although we don't think it will be much weaker (nothing a slight increase in difficulty level shouldn't offset). We are aware that the majority of players are interested in AI play, but we think the rule changes that we make are making for both a better PBEM and better AI experience.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Phenix)
Post #: 2
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/28/2011 6:14:35 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1369
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Joel, is there a recommendation under 1.05 for how a player should set the Soviet AI difficulty for a 1941 situation (campaign or scenario) considering that the AI doesn't have the dynamism to understand how to build Fortified Zones/Regions for the purpose of creating level 3 forts in hexes?

For anyone playing the Soviet AI under 1.05, would like to know how your experiences go with its ability to dig in during 1941.


< Message edited by heliodorus04 -- 9/28/2011 6:15:14 PM >

_____________________________

For the longest time I thought I'd buy WitW to ensure my legitimate voice of criticism could be heard. But as WitE continues down the path of Soviet Army fantasy-land, I've given up all hope of enjoying either game again.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 3
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/28/2011 9:53:12 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18657
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		For most players, playing against the Challenging Soviet AI is going to be a decent game. The more experienced players will need to crank it up a little more. It's hard to give a blanket answer since play styles/levels are so varied.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 4
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/29/2011 11:05:59 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 605
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		I have conducted an interesting (at least to me) series of tests under 1.05. I set the AI vs AI mode and did the first game with everything set to 100 for both Axis and Soviet. The game was pretty much a stalemate through the entire time and ended up a draw. OK, that sounds like that should be as it is. Good stuff.

The next game had the Axis at 110 and the Soviets at 90 - a Hard game. The Axis AI had a decisive victory in Nov 1942. So the next game I set the Axis at 110 and the Soviet at 100 and the Axis had a decisive victory in Mar 1944.

My conclusions are that the lack of ability to build a complete fort line definitely hurts the Soviets more than the Axis! Other than that, I really don't know. I would have liked to have data from the previous versions to compare it to, but I still find the results intriguing.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 5
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/30/2011 4:01:09 AM   
rosseau

 

Posts: 818
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Good question and an honest answer. Thank you.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 6
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/30/2011 8:13:27 AM   
Phenix

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 3/18/2004
Status: offline 		Thank You Joel, good to know. Just one more question...Do Soviet aggressiveness increase with difficulty ,or is it just that the numbers are getting stacked higher against the human player on a higher difficulty?

< Message edited by Phenix -- 9/30/2011 8:14:59 AM >

(in reply to rosseau)
Post #: 7
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/30/2011 1:11:24 PM   
Commanderski

 

Posts: 285
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: online
quote:

I have conducted an interesting (at least to me) series of tests under 1.05. I set the AI vs AI mode and did the first game with everything set to 100 for both Axis and Soviet. The game was pretty much a stalemate through the entire time and ended up a draw. OK, that sounds like that should be as it is. Good stuff.

The next game had the Axis at 110 and the Soviets at 90 - a Hard game. The Axis AI had a decisive victory in Nov 1942. So the next game I set the Axis at 110 and the Soviet at 100 and the Axis had a decisive victory in Mar 1944.

My conclusions are that the lack of ability to build a complete fort line definitely hurts the Soviets more than the Axis! Other than that, I really don't know. I would have liked to have data from the previous versions to compare it to, but I still find the results intriguing.


Interesting test and observations. Thank you for doing that.

(in reply to Phenix)
Post #: 8
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/30/2011 1:27:37 PM   
vlcz


Posts: 387
Joined: 8/24/2009
From: Spain
Status: offline
This game AI is quite fine and causes (at least it caused to me) a really good impresion while learning to play. Anyway rules changing or not don´t expect the AI to be a match for a human once you repeatedly play the game , specially a human following this forums and AARs.

Go play with a human opponent if you can , if at all imposible/impractical, consider imposing on yourself "home rules" and "historical" limits (no checkerboard defense , "no retreat" command imposition if axis, Advancinf in turn 1 as soviet) I feel them being betar than "10% extra"

(in reply to Commanderski)
Post #: 9
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/30/2011 1:45:11 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1369
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phenix

Thank You Joel, good to know. Just one more question...Do Soviet aggressiveness increase with difficulty ,or is it just that the numbers are getting stacked higher against the human player on a higher difficulty?


If I understand your question, I think the answer is neither.

What happens when you increase AI settings is a little varied depending on which setting:
Morale, I think, increases the die rolls for the Soviet morale checks.
Fortification slows/increases the digging in speed.
Admin gives more or less admin points (not sure about die rolls for admin checks)
Logistics I do not know
Transportation gives/takes more trucks, I think.

However, I'm virtually certain that the AI does not get 'bonus equipment production' compared to other difficulty settings. It's not like HOI3 where difficulty just means it has more resources to throw at you.

Where you might see more aggressiveness out of the AI, it's because it's army is in better shape with logistics and trucks.

< Message edited by heliodorus04 -- 9/30/2011 1:46:39 PM >

_____________________________

For the longest time I thought I'd buy WitW to ensure my legitimate voice of criticism could be heard. But as WitE continues down the path of Soviet Army fantasy-land, I've given up all hope of enjoying either game again.

(in reply to Phenix)
Post #: 10
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/30/2011 2:08:04 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Playing the AI on higher difficulty levels will throw off your game to some extent. You will get the wrong feeling for what attacks will or will not succeed and what is possible or not. If you want to prepare for human vs human, I suggest playing the AI on normal (beating it up comprehensively) and then playing yourself.


_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 11
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/30/2011 2:38:28 PM   
Klydon

 

Posts: 1878
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		The thing that bugs me the most about the AI is the fact it gets so many "cheats" and some of those are very annoying. (Cutting rail lines has no effect on the AI in terms of them moving units and auto evacing industry once a German unit gets within 10 hexes regardless of rail cap availability and status of the rail lines just to name two of the bigger offenders).

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 12
RE: Regarding the AI? - 9/30/2011 3:15:02 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1369
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Playing the AI on higher difficulty levels will throw off your game to some extent. You will get the wrong feeling for what attacks will or will not succeed and what is possible or not. If you want to prepare for human vs human, I suggest playing the AI on normal (beating it up comprehensively) and then playing yourself.



I'm not a fan of the Hard/Challenging settings for this reason: when you play versus Human, you need to understand the combat mechanics at 100 percent. So "Morale" isn't necessarily the best setting to make harder.

But when training for human play, I'm a fan of turning down the German settings (the side I play versus AI) for Admin and Transport. Versus the AI, you won't see the challenges to your supply line that a human will put you through. Practicing with fewer trucks and poorer logistics is good rehearsal. I only turn up the AI digging in (because the AI needs it).

_____________________________

For the longest time I thought I'd buy WitW to ensure my legitimate voice of criticism could be heard. But as WitE continues down the path of Soviet Army fantasy-land, I've given up all hope of enjoying either game again.

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 13
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