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OT: Question of declaring war in 1941

 
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OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 4:56:18 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		I'm currently reading "Eagle Against the Sun" by Ronald H. Spector.

Anyway, he said there was one vote in Congress against going to war with Japan. Would anyone happen to know the story behind this?

I'm about halfway through the book and he seems kind of biased against anyone that was not an American in that time. I did not get this impression with Toland.

One part that interests me is that the author said while Britain was contributing to the war effort the Dutch and French "were on the sidelines" and constantly reminding the U.S. that they would get their possessions back after the war. It ended right there, there was nothing more on the subject.

Would anyone happen to know if there is any truth to this? It seems like a lot of poppycock to me. The impression that I've always had was that until 1943 everyone was just trying to keep their head above water.

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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 5:56:37 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7047
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		ABDA did have a lot of infighting from the start.  The Dutch and French were limited in what they could contribute to the war effort, their home countries were in enemy hands.

Bill


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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 6:07:39 AM   
AcePylut9

 

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Status: offline 		IIRC it was a committed pacifist that cast the "no" vote.  IIRC that same person also cast a "no" vote for the WW1 declaration of war.

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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 6:08:08 AM   
AcePylut9

 

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Status: offline 		ahh wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeannette_Rankin


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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 7:39:06 AM   
elxaime

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

...the Dutch and French "were on the sidelines" and constantly reminding the U.S. that they would get their possessions back after the war.


In 1941 there was still a considerable amount of anti-colonial sentiment in the USA. Many felt the US entry into WW1 was a mistake and that hundreds of thousands of Americans died to maintain European Empires. In WW2, one of the main areas of unspoken (and sometimes spoken) tension between the US and Britain was over the belief by the Americans that Churchill was always trying to mold plans to protect the Empire. Remember, even though now we know the British Empire was on its last legs, to people of the 1940's it was still Mighty Britannia...

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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 9:55:44 AM   
ilovestrategy


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Status: offline 		Thanks everyone!

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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 10:32:21 AM   
JeffK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut9

ahh wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeannette_Rankin



At someone willing to stand up for their priciples, now they stand up for the lobbyist with the biggest cheque book.

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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 12:36:11 PM   
steamboateng


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Status: offline 		It's my understanding that many of the American neutrality advocates centered their arguments around European colonialism, apparently ignoring US involvement in the Caribean, South America, and, of course the Phillipines.
Churchill carries on at length about this in his informative multi-volume history of WWII.

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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 12:53:34 PM   
CV 2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut9

IIRC it was a committed pacifist that cast the "no" vote.  IIRC that same person also cast a "no" vote for the WW1 declaration of war.


The 1 "no" vote was only because it is believed that under no circumstances should there be a unanimous vote (on anything), so 1 person will ALWAYS vote "no". She was the logical choice for it.

Nothing has ever passed congress with 100% "yes" votes.

< Message edited by CV 2 -- 9/22/2011 12:56:26 PM >

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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 1:29:54 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: steamboateng

It's my understanding that many of the American neutrality advocates centered their arguments around European colonialism, apparently ignoring US involvement in the Caribean, South America, and, of course the Phillipines.
Churchill carries on at length about this in his informative multi-volume history of WWII.


As soon as you mention the Philippines I am forced to mention:

1. After several decades of legal wrangling, the US had granted independence to the Philippines - by act of Congress in 1935.
2. A ten year transition period began then, with Philippine Independence scheduled for July 4th, 1945.
3. The war caused a delay, but only 1 year.

The fact that the war began during the transition period is the reason the Philippines had a separate army in 1941. If was federalized, just like the US state national guards.

As to the Carribean, Cuba apparently had better lawyers. Panama not so good, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands much worse.


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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 1:49:42 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7047
Joined: 6/28/2006
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Status: offline 		At the risk of becoming too political for this forum...

Actually this is not true.  The most common historic vote in the US Congress has been by unanimous consent.  It is far more common with non-controversial legislation like naming a post office, or something else minor.  Lots of bills of that scale go through Congress all the time.

Some major legislation has gone through by unanimous consent, but usually somebody wants to make at least a token "No" vote to go on the record.

I will not comment on anything currently going on in Congress, and I think it wise not to bring current Congressional issues into this forum.  Let's keep this in a historical perspective.  Which is at least tangentially related to the game.

Bill


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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 2:59:47 PM   
steamboateng


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Status: offline 		Not to mention US Buisiness interests in the Western Hemi. Certainly United Fruit Co. had a genuine interest in not wanting its banana boats being legitamate U-Boat prey.

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RE: OT: Question of declaring war in 1941 - 9/22/2011 4:22:44 PM   
SuluSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ABDA did have a lot of infighting from the start. 

Bill



No kidding Bill,

Some of the ABDA issues could be chalked up to the patchwork way the forces were thrown together but
one is left to wonder if the Java Sea engagements would have went any differently if Doorman wasn't at the helm. When Perth and Houston pulled into Batavia for fuel before their orderd departure to Austraila to have to barter for it after the efforts put forth by the two crews was almost shameful.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 9/22/2011 4:29:48 PM >

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