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Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 2:18:36 AM

Mike Solli

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Hi guys. Since I'm waiting for my old PBEM to resume or to start a new one, I thought I'd start discussing different aspects of the Japanese side of things. Now that I have had the experience of playing 6 game months of the campaign game, I have learned a few things (from playing as well as discussing things with many of you). Anyway, here goes.

I thought I'd start with the xAKs. Yeah, it's not glamorous, but it's a necessary evil if you want to be able to play with your toys come late 1942. Without these buckets, your raw materials don't come back to Japan and your supply and fuel doesn't make it to the guys with the pointy sticks. I'll discuss each class and talk about good and bad points and potential conversions.

When I looked at these guys when AE first came out, the initial thoughts of their relative usefulness was primarily based on capacity and speed. Looking at them a second time (with a bit of experience with this game) brings to light some classes that I initially thought were nothing special but now feel are unique in some way and critical to Japanese success.

One thing that I didn't think was important but is supremely important is the conversion from xAK to AK. After 31 Mar 42, the Japanese invasion bonus goes away. The disruption of invading Japanese troops becomes horrendous. One way to reduce that awful disruption is to invade with AKs. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of classes that can make this conversion. You have:

Yusan N - 56 hulls, 15 kts
Yusan A - 7 hulls, 18 kts
Kyushu - 32 hulls, 18 kts
Husimi - 25 hulls, 14 kts

Keep this in mind as we discuss below.

Conversions

There are a variety of conversions available, but not by all classes. Here are some of them:

AKV
AKE
AS
AV
AR
AD
AG
TK
PB
ACM
AMc

Ok, here we go by class....

Class xAKL/PB/ACM

To'su 37/34/18 - 12 kt
Kiso 69/48/15 - 11 kt
Ansyu-C 54/36/No conversion possible - 14 kt

These guys are grouped together because they they can be converted into PBs and ACMs. ACMs first. On 7 Dec 41 you have 46 ACMs. If you look at all your starting minefields, you are short an additional 40 ACMs. Something has to be converted if you want to keep a majority of those mines.

You've got 37 To'su and 69 Kiso available to convert to ACM. You need 40 plus any new minefields you create. Let's say 60 total. That leaves 46 left to convert. They'll convert to PBs. For you new guys, these two classes are tiny and make terrible cargo ships. Go ahead and convert them all.

The question on how to divide up the conversions is a good one. I base it on speed. The Kiso PBs will escort the 10 kt convoys, the To'sus escort the 12 kt convoys and the Ansyu-Cs escort the 14 (and maybe 15) kt convoys. How do we figure this part out?

10 kt xAKs - 185 hulls
12 kt xAKs - 350 hulls
14 kt xAKs - 178 hulls

Lots of 12 kt hulls. I would convert all 37 To'sus to PBs and 9 Kisos to PBs. That would make the following conversions:

Convert:
37 To'su to PB
9 Kisu to PB
60 Kisu to ACM

which gives you:

71 To'su PB
57 Kisu PB

18 To'su ACM
75 Kisu ACM

You also have 36 Ansyu-C PBs and an additional 54 xAKs. They are actually not bad as xAKs but you can never have too many PBs. I'm not sure how many I'll end up converting, but it'll be over half, maybe all. Comments/

More to come....

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 2:27:12 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
One thing that I didn't think was important but is supremely important is the conversion from xAK to AK.

Gah! Here I thought I was offering some novel advice on the other xAK thread out there! I knew I should have read your thread first!

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 2:28:48 AM

Mike Solli

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xAK --> AK conversion

As stated above, there are 4 classes that can convert to AK:

Yusan N - 56 hulls, 15 kts
Yusan A - 7 hulls, 18 kts
Kyushu - 32 hulls, 18 kts
Husimi - 25 hulls, 14 kts

Some of these are more useful as xAKs (in my opinion).

Yusan N - it's one of two classes of xAK that can carry cargo and 300 points of liquid. I much prefer using that to haul oil or fuel to Japan. It's out.
Kyushu - It's the second class of xAK that can carry cargo and 300 points of liquid. Same as the Yusan N. It's out too.

That leaves the Yusan A and Husimi for conversion to AK. Unfortunately, the Husimi is also needed for conversion to ARs, which are required for Japan. Possibly a couple of AS conversions as well, but probably not. Assuming about 10 AR conversions, that leaves only 15 Husimi and 7 Yusan A hulls available for conversion to AK.

AR Conversions

While we're talking about ARs, we start off with 2 and none in the pipeline. They're critical for repairing ships, so I like to get 10 more in the pipeline. If I remember correctly, they take 180 days to convert (please correct me if I'm wrong). Only the Husimi and Kyushu can convert to ARs. Kyushus are too critical to convert due to their liquid carrying capacity.

Husimis are a critical class that I totally overlooked the first time around.

Edit: I just caught one mistake. The Yusan S class is an AK already. There are 10 of them so now we are up to 32 potential AKs after the conversions above.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 9/11/2011 3:01:42 PM >

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 2:29:33 AM

Mike Solli

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There's another xAK thread out there?

Edit: Found it.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 9/11/2011 2:30:43 AM >

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 2:35:23 AM

Mike Solli

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TK Conversions

This one is easy. In my opinion, the more TK hulls you have out there, the faster you can haul oil and fuel where you want it. Once the Allied sub torps become effective, you're going to need all you can get. The STD- series can be converted to TKs. You start with 17 STD-C and get many more. There are STD-A through STD-E. The -As are the biggest and I think the -E class is an oil drum with a small motor (or a couple of paddles) attached.

I plan on converting all the A through C models. If things go well, probably not all the -Cs, but definitely all the -As and -Bs.

Remember, conversions can revert back to their original configuration!

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 2:48:31 AM

Mike Solli

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AKV Conversions

These guys are used to haul aircraft by ship. I don't think you'll need many but I plan on converting 6. Why 6? Good question! That will allow you to ship 2 daitai or sentai at a time. Should you want to ship a daitai or sentai by ship, divide it into it's 3 chutai and put them on 3 different ships. That lessens the chance of the entire unit going down should an Allied sub get lucky. So what do you convert? You have 2 choices, the Lima or Aden Class. You start with 46 Limas ad 189 Adens (I call them the workhorse). It really doesn't matter, but the Lima is a bit faster at 14 its vs the 12 kt Aden. I'd choose the Lima, simply because if I want to move planes by ship, I want to get them to their destination as fast as possible.

AKE Conversions

These guys are important! You start out with a couple of them but I recommend you convert more as soon as possible. As you liberate more territory, you come closer to the Allied line in the sand, where they're going to lash back. Your ships will have to shoot and will need ammo fast! The AKE is the answer. To make sure you can rearm your BBs, you want as big an AKE as you can get. There are 9 (I'm pretty sure) classes that can convert to an AKE. The largest is the Lima class. That's my choice. I'll start ~8 as soon as possible.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 2:56:57 AM

Mike Solli

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AS Conversions

These guys are somewhat useful. They repair subs but can not repair major damage. That drastically limits what they can do. You start out with 5 of them and there are more in the queue. I don't expect to convert any but if you feel you need to, only the Kyushu and Husimi classes can convert. Neither is a good choice for reasons discussed above. I don't plan on converting any.

AV Conversions

Here's another one that is useful but you have quite a few. You start out with 6 (not counting the Kamoi, Chitose or Chiyoda). You get more as reinforcements. Again, you're limited to the Kyushu or Husimi classes to convert. Another tough choice. I don't think it's worth it.

AMc Conversions

You start out with 28 To'su conversions. I'm pretty sure you get more. The To'su and Kiso classes can convert. In my opinion, there are more important conversions for these classes so I plan on making due with what I have.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 3:13:23 AM

Mike Solli

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AD Conversions

This is a very useful conversion. In my game, I didn't do anything with these guys. Big mistake. You start out with 4 of them. I plan on converting an additional 8 in my next game. Why? Because they can repair lots of different small ships, including PBs. You will have dozens of them all over the map. If you can keep them alive, all the better. The AD can assist the repair of DDs and any Small Escorts as well as repair major damage of Small Craft. Sounds good but what's a Small Escort or Small Craft?

Small Escort
DE
APD
DMS
DM
AVD
E
TB
KV
PF
PB
PC
SC
AM
ML

Small Craft
PB
PC
SC
AM
ML
HDML
MGB
YP
YMS
AMc

I keep these lists in front of me when I play. Proper use of the AD will keep these guys alive longer. Ok, what can convert to an AD? The Ehine class can. You start out with 58 of them. They're moderate sized xAKs. You can spare some to convert to ADs. You'll be glad you did.

AG Conversions

Here's the other conversion I never used but should have. The AG can assist the repair of Small Escorts and Small Craft as well as repair major damage of Small Craft. An AG is basically an AD that can't repair a DD. You start out with 4 of these as well. Mine never left the port they started the game in. Why? Because I didn't bother to read about them. Bad mistake. Once you know what an AD and AG can do, the first thought is, "Why bother building AGs when I can just build Ads." Well, many of the small xAK(L) classes can be converted to AGs. You have lots of them. An AG is useful in places the Small Escorts and Small Craft frequent, such as the oil and resource hexes scattered around the SRA. I plan on putting one in each of those hexes. I haven't counted them yet, but I will. That will tell me how many to convert. Here are the classes that can convert to the AG:

Ehime (I won't use this class for this conversion)
Gozan
Miyati
Kasu-D
Daigen

Any of the last 4 will work. It all depends on what is available.

Well, have at it guys. Tell me where I'm crazy and propose a better solution. I look forward to some great discussions.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 3:29:37 AM

SuluSea

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Great thread Mike, thanks for taking the time to go through everything!! I may be one of the least experienced guys playing this side but don't underestimate my zeal for playing and studying this side.

I may be off base but after the initial conversions of Kiso's to ACMs are complete my plans have them relieve all the To'su ACMs. The relieved To'su's then being converted to xPBs sprinkled in with some AMc's. My thinking is once I have enough Kiso ACMs to take care of existing and future minefields the excess Kiso's because of the fuel bunkers should do okay as AMc's and xPBs and if they aren't escorting or patrolling would make good early warning vessels as pickets.

The Yusen-N AK conversions are surprising to me in a sense that I thought the Japanese side would have enough fuel moving capacity and I'd be free to convert all without much affect on moving liquids. Your comments have given me pause as I guess I'll monitor how things go and convert what I feel I can spare.

Really that's what so great about this side, the challenge of making things work.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 9/11/2011 3:32:22 AM >

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 3:36:58 AM

Mike Solli

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Oh yeah, one last thing I want to do. Here is a list of each xAK(L) class (# hulls) and any conversions (# converted) - (# remaining)

Just my thoughts on possible conversions I may do in another game.

Yusan S (10) no conversions - (10)
Lima (46) AKE (8), AKV (6) - (32)
Yusen N (56) no conversions - (56)
Yusen A (7) AK (7) - (0)
Kyushu (32) no conversions (32)
Aden (189) no conversions - (189)
Husimi (25) AR (10), AK (15) - (0)
Akasi (57) no conversions - (57)
Ehine (58) AD (8) - (50)
Toho (53) no conversions - (53)
Std-C (17) TK (17) - (0)
Ansyu-C (54) PB (36) - (18)
Gozan (58) AG (24) - (34)
Miyati (59) no conversions - (59)
Kasu-D (46) no conversions - (46)
Daigen (68) no conversions - (68)
Kiso (69) PB (9), ACM (60) - (0)
To'su (37) PB (37) - (0)

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 3:43:59 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Great thread Mike, thanks for taking the time to go through everything!! I may be one of the least experienced guys playing this side but don't underestimate my zeal for playing and studying this side.

I may be off base but after the initial conversions of Kiso's to ACMs are complete my plans have them relieve all the To'su ACMs. The relieved To'su's then being converted to xPBs sprinkled in with some AMc's. My thinking is once I have enough Kiso ACMs to take care of existing and future minefields the excess Kiso's because of the fuel bunkers should do okay as AMc's and xPBs and if they aren't escorting or patrolling would make good early warning vessels as pickets.

The Yusen-N AK conversions are surprising to me in a sense that I thought the Japanese side would have enough fuel moving capacity and I'd be free to convert all without much affect on moving liquids. Your comments have given me pause as I guess I'll monitor how things go and convert what I feel I can spare.

Really that's what so great about this side, the challenge of making things work.

The Kiso has an advantage over the To'su of endurance, 4000 vs. 1700. It's just that darn 1 kt that makes me pause with them. If the Kiso had a speed of 12 its, I'd take it over the To'su because in every other respect, it's better.

To be honest, I don't really know if the Japanese has enough liquid transport capability. All I know is history and I don't think they had enough. The great thing about conversions is that they can be changed. All that is lost is a couple of weeks or so. I really like the Yusan N and Kyushu classes because they can haul resources and oil at the same time. They're perfect for moving those commodities where there is little oil and lots of resources. You don't need TKs in that case.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 4:03:47 AM

SuluSea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

The Kiso has an advantage over the To'su of endurance, 4000 vs. 1700. It's just that darn 1 kt that makes me pause with them. If the Kiso had a speed of 12 its, I'd take it over the To'su because in every other respect, it's better.

I'm hearing you Mike, I like the 3 ASW of the Kiso as well but that darn 1 knot...

Any thoughts on early war AK- troop conversions?

NYG59 was kind enough to forward his thoughts to me on that subject and feel very comfortable with it and the flexibilty which it should give to move troops when needed.

From the notes-

Ehime-convert to AK-t
Akasi-convert to AK-t
Toho-convert to AK-t
Aden half to convert to AK-t

After setting up resource convoys in the Home Islands I have different classes of AKs allocated to their respective ports. The ports are chosen depending on how many of the class is converting. It's a longer process with the first turn to sort everything out but it really helps organize for future use.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 7:29:01 AM

Knyvet

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Here's a chart I use for comparing xAKs and xAKLs as well as evaluating conversions.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 10:53:28 AM

SgtSwanson

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You'll need approx. 20 - 30 AGs if you want one per resource hex/base. There are at least 15 bases in Java, Borneo, Plambang, Sing area alone. And the Islands just North of Darwin. That's not counting PI, or NG areas. This is just the areas you NEED to take, not what you start with.

Thanks for sharing Mike.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 3:07:10 PM

Mike Solli

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Sulu, yeah, the -t conversion is one I haven't done but after 6 months of campaigns, I need to consider it. I had lots of troops piling up in Japan. Using the -t conversion, they could be moved much faster.

Knyvet, that's a wonderful chart! Do you have one for scenario 1?

SgtSwanson, thanks for that info. I was too lazy to count up the hexes to figure it out. I'll do it eventually....

This morning I caught an error. The Yusan S class (10 hulls) begins the game as an AK. So, now the potential number of AKs is raised to 32. That's much nicer.

More comments later. Off to church right now.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 4:20:20 PM

SgtSwanson

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That is a nice chart

Any chance on getting one for the Allies? Is it Excel?

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 4:21:52 PM

SuluSea

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Very nice chart Knyvet, Man it would be nice if we were given the option to convert those Std-Fs to AMc,ACM or xPBs since they kind of give you that Kiso/To'su feeling.

Mike, my plan has some of the home island type's getting converted to AK-ts on the first day, after conversion as they fan out to their destinations some loaded with supply and/or troops, when free the xAK's of the same class get their conversions. My thinking as I've read in numerous AARs is a day lost waiting for shipping as Japan is a day you never get back. I'd rather error on the side of too many.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 11:22:49 PM

Insano

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For me 100% of Ansyu-C xAKL hulls are converted to PB. 14kts makes a nice escort. Just think of how many times the convoy waits for adequate escort compared to how many times you need that small amount of extra dry hauling capacity.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/11/2011 11:31:27 PM

pws1225

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A great thread Mike. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your research. And welcome back!

Regards, Paul

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/12/2011 5:07:21 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Mike, my plan has some of the home island type's getting converted to AK-ts on the first day, after conversion as they fan out to their destinations some loaded with supply and/or troops, when free the xAK's of the same class get their conversions. My thinking as I've read in numerous AARs is a day lost waiting for shipping as Japan is a day you never get back. I'd rather error on the side of too many.

I agree with this.

Mike, while I totally appreciate your hard work on this, I wonder if you'll permit me an observation? I think it's possible to make this too complicated.

As the Japanese player you have a surplus if not a surfeit of xAKs. Many players (including this one) report not having to use more than 1/2-2/3 of their total xAK fleet at any one time. Indeed, some IJ players have opted to halt production near completion, so as not to have yet another superfluous xAK in existence.

It's counterintuitive, I know, but that's the lay of the land. You don't have to be as efficient as you're describing. Indeed, full embrasure of efficiency will leave you open to unanticipated problems, such as torpedoed xAKs. When that happens do you completely rejigger your TFs? I don't.

Again, appreciate all the hard background work here. Just wanted to give a shout out to the new IJ players: it's not as hard as it seems. Really.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/12/2011 7:13:57 AM

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Mike,

Agree with most of your thoughts.

300 liquid is a nice feature of Husimi and Kyushu, but let's face it, 300 ain't gonna make or break the bank in anyway.

Kyushu is one of the few classses to convert to AR, and AR's are in desperate demand. Husimi in this role are ok, but I like the speed advantage of the Kyushu.

Husimi - converting to AV depends some on your use of float planes. they can make nice pickets with the range of the Jakes and IJ never has enough ENG units to set up remote AF's. Floats can work in that capacity. They were used this way historically. Unfortunately, WITPAE has one nasty carry-over from WITP: the allies get a free "spy" on new airfields and ports in the mid-turn. So, the float bases are susceptible to LBA attack. As Nemo would say, "there are counters to this though" ...

AS - I've never completely convinced myself one way or the other on these. I've been waiting to see an AAR that uses them, and so far haven't run across one. This in itself my be a condemnation.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/12/2011 6:02:30 PM

Xargun

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Here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth...

AKE

I agree you definately need a bunch of these - at least 1 or 2 in each major area - especially the DEI and South Pacific where a large enough base to rearm the big ships is not around (not counting Truk as its not in a good location).

I believe I have built 3 new ones and just finished another 3 or 4. One nice feature with AKEs is they will also replenish your ordnance on CVs as well - both bombs and torps.

AKV

Not sure these are worth the conversion. If I remember correctly the only difference between it and a normal AK is that the planes arrive in working condition and don't need repaired first. To me that is not that big of a deal.

AD

These are important earlier in the game than later. The big advantage on these is they will reload torps on your DDs which can mean a lot in a surface engagement. But as you get deeper into the game they become worth less and less as you have less chance of a surface fight. But I would / and have converted several of these as well.

AG

These are the saving grace of the IJN. At first I overlooked them as well thinking they were useless but after some research I found their purpose in life -- and that is to rearm SC, PC and PBs - the reload DCs :) I am placing at least 1 at every little ASW hub I have and keeping several in reserve as they die easily. I do not see how anyone can not convert a bunch of these for their ASW bases.

AR

I have converted 3 or 4 of these and have them in smaller ports (less than size 7) so I can repair small major damage. It seems every ship gets major engine damage just from normal use and these guys allow any port to repair that 1 or 2 points that will keep your ships moving at max speed and reduce the trips to a real repair yard.

PB

I have been converting the small ships into PBs almost since turn 1 and I completely agree we can never have too many PBs. In my current PBeM I am flooded with allied subs around Japan and these little babies are my best defense right now. You have to have lots as a single torpedo hit will sink one about 97% of the time.

AS

I have also converted a couple of these simply to reload torpedoes in forward areas. I use my subs a lot and while I don't usually kill a lot of warships with them I like prowling the sea lanes in the Southern Pacific hitting convoys - easier to kill men in a ship then once they reach the shore.

By having extra AS I am able to reduce their turn around time and keep them on station much longer.

AV

I have converted a couple of these in my current game with the idea of leaving them in small bases to take care of float planes on ASW duty. A small AV allows you to use any base for ASW without having to deploy a more valuable Base Force.

AMc

I agree with your choice on these - I see no reason to convert any of these.

TK

To be honest I didn't notice that some of the ships can convert to TKs. Looks like I need to look at them again and get some conversions in the oven as even now I don't have enough TKs to keep the oil / fuel levels in some locations down to a reasonable level.

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/12/2011 8:09:21 PM

undercovergeek

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i was under the impression a sub cant refuel at a base that doesnt have an AS - if im right this makes them golden surely?!

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RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/12/2011 8:37:02 PM

Xargun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

i was under the impression a sub cant refuel at a base that doesnt have an AS - if im right this makes them golden surely?!

Yes a sub can refuel at a base without an AS as long as their is fuel. The sub should be able to reload normal ammo (deck gun and AA) without an AS as well. And AS is there to provide limited repairs but mostly torpedoes.

Xargun

(in reply to undercovergeek)

Post #: 24

RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/13/2011 2:45:17 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9500
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Strictly from the Allied side, my thoughts.

Every AKE, AD, AS that you can convert. These are the ships that I look for to kill with my heavies. I go out of my way to kill them. I think most Allied players work this way. You can't have enough for this reason. The delimma facing the Japanese player is that after mid 1943 it is dangerous to base at any advance port due to the threat of bombs. These ships are mobile and give you tactical reloads of ammo and torpedoes from front line bases.

I would not bother so much about ACMs. Defensive minefields are over rated in the game. Mostly ineffective and very easy to remove. If you can convert them to PBs instead then that is what I would do. Japan can neutralize the Allied sub effort with massive escort and good air ASW. PBs will never sink much but it is just a likely that the Allied sub will target the escort over any really important ship and that in itself makes escorts priceless. You can't have enough escorts.

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Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Xargun)

Post #: 25

RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/13/2011 3:28:50 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3468
Joined: 2/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Strictly from the Allied side, my thoughts.

Every AKE, AD, AS that you can convert. These are the ships that I look for to kill with my heavies. I go out of my way to kill them. I think most Allied players work this way. You can't have enough for this reason. The delimma facing the Japanese player is that after mid 1943 it is dangerous to base at any advance port due to the threat of bombs. These ships are mobile and give you tactical reloads of ammo and torpedoes from front line bases.

I would not bother so much about ACMs. Defensive minefields are over rated in the game. Mostly ineffective and very easy to remove. If you can convert them to PBs instead then that is what I would do. Japan can neutralize the Allied sub effort with massive escort and good air ASW. PBs will never sink much but it is just a likely that the Allied sub will target the escort over any really important ship and that in itself makes escorts priceless. You can't have enough escorts.

Thanks for the allied perspective it actually helps

I will disagree a little on ACMs though - even though a minefield will not prevent any invasion a lucky hit will kill a small ship or cripple a capital ship forcing its evac and repair. I mostly want ACMs and minefields to keep my opponent from parking subs in base hexes where I can't kill them. In my current PBeM I have already seen several allied subs sink due to running into a mine while patrolling a base hex.

Xargun

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 26

RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/13/2011 4:32:01 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 23287
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Strictly from the Allied side, my thoughts.

Every AKE, AD, AS that you can convert. These are the ships that I look for to kill with my heavies. I go out of my way to kill them. I think most Allied players work this way. You can't have enough for this reason. The delimma facing the Japanese player is that after mid 1943 it is dangerous to base at any advance port due to the threat of bombs. These ships are mobile and give you tactical reloads of ammo and torpedoes from front line bases.

I would not bother so much about ACMs. Defensive minefields are over rated in the game. Mostly ineffective and very easy to remove. If you can convert them to PBs instead then that is what I would do. Japan can neutralize the Allied sub effort with massive escort and good air ASW. PBs will never sink much but it is just a likely that the Allied sub will target the escort over any really important ship and that in itself makes escorts priceless. You can't have enough escorts.

Thanks for the allied perspective it actually helps I will disagree a little on ACMs though - even though a minefield will not prevent any invasion a lucky hit will kill a small ship or cripple a capital ship forcing its evac and repair. I mostly want ACMs and minefields to keep my opponent from parking subs in base hexes where I can't kill them. In my current PBeM I have already seen several allied subs sink due to running into a mine while patrolling a base hex.

Xargun

I agree with Xargun on the value of defensive minefields. They're priceless for stemming submarine snooping into frontline (or rear area) naval bases. I've claimed several (whether they've really sunk or not, who knows?) enemy submarines to these defensive minefields. Supporting the minefields as long as possible with ACMs makes sense to me.

Otherwise, crsutton is on target. Which is a great reason to not base support ships close to enemy airbases.

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(in reply to Xargun)

Post #: 27

RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/13/2011 4:35:49 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 8291
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Otherwise, crsutton is on target. Which is a great reason to not base support ships close to enemy airbases.

And the allies get to "see" them in the mid-turn move. A nice advantage for them.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 28

RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/13/2011 4:38:01 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3468
Joined: 2/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

And the allies get to "see" them in the mid-turn move. A nice advantage for them.

What do you mean ?

Xargun

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 29

RE: Japanese xAK Discussion - 9/13/2011 4:52:51 PM

cavalry

Posts: 2332
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline

I had to convert some TK to AO in my game as I have losy about 8 AO before Jan 42!!!!!!

cav

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 30

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Japanese xAK Discussion