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RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta

 
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RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 9/28/2011 9:10:38 PM   
Balou


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Q-Ball,
Great AAR, as always.
Do I miss something looking at the Neva-line? Sov side: all this to deny activation of the Finns ? Ger side: what are your Pz Divs good for? Your low on Pzs and this is no Pz-country up there. Or do you still hope to link up with the Finns before mud? Any other reason to have 4th PzA up there ?

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 91
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 9/28/2011 10:33:55 PM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: cherryfunk

I'm curious, why reduce artillery to 50% TOE?


Because Armament points are dear; at game-start, I had a pool of 600,000 for Germany. That is now down to 179,000, and falling each turn, so I will run out shortly. I would rather keep Rifles in the line than artillery at this point. When production increases after winter, I'll turn Artillery back-on.



This seems to be where your ARM points are going...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2916064

< Message edited by MechFO -- 9/28/2011 10:34:15 PM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 92
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 9/30/2011 9:57:13 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
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Turn 12: 9/4/41

Sticking my Neck Out: B-G really took advantage of my exposed Panzer Spearheads this turn. I expected to have problems near Stalino, where I stretched to take-out some industry. But he also caused me trouble West of Tula, by cutting off most of Pz Gp 3.

B-G makes many many bombing runs on a unit before attacking, and sends lots of units on hasty attack first to cause disruption. Good tactics, that's how you do it as the Red Army.

General Situation: For the most part, B-G is either holding favorable defensive terrain, or retreating. As a result, the number of units I am pocketing has fallen off a cliff.

The last two turns, I have bagged a grand total of 2 units. This after taking over 150 Divisions the first 9 turns. I think B-G became seriously concerned about Red Army strength, as it briefly touched 3.5 mil. It's bounced back to 3.67 mil over the last couple turns.

My tank situation has not improved much; I have 1894. I slowed the rate of decline a bit by resting Panzers but these counterattacks are not helping.

The only units I am still killing are Fort Zones. B-G has really built alot; I have killed 57 so far. I don't know why he allows them to die rather than picking them up to save men and guns. When I played Soviets, I always disbanded them. (That was before these new fort rules though).

I have built 6 fort zones so far in prep for winter, and will accelerate as I get closer to my stop line.

AGN:

Not sure I will take Leningrad. We are giving it the ol' try. This turn, we did get enough over the Volkhov to clear that barrier, though swamps beckon to the East.

If I reach the Svir it will be without alot of turns left before Mud, and hardly any to dig-in. The industry is all long-gone, but I would like to kill all the troops in Leningrad, as well as close the Red Army recruiting stations therein.

AGC: Bletchley Geek did a nice job cutting-off 3rd Panzer. That cost me a turn, and probably any shot at Tula, which is already 1/2 empty. At this point, I just want him to be forced to move it.

Down by Kursk, we re-took it, and I expect OREL to fall shortly.

AGS: Kharkov falls without a fight. Strange! I guess B-G felt it was in danger of being pocketed. 17 Vehicles were still there.

I expected 1st Panzer to be cut-off, and they were. We freed them, and also continued to advance in all directions. We cut the rail line to Mariupol, dooming the 1 Arm Factory there.

CRIMEA: I was surprised that B-G fell back. I had decided I was not committing more than a German Corps plus Romanians down there, and they are making progress. I have a legit shot at Kerch, where there are 2 ARM, and maybe wintering down there.

IIRC, the Crimea is NOT Blizzard zone, right? So I should want to stay rather than fall back on the Perekop? I didn't intend to do this, but if it's available, I guess why not.

Sevastopol appears strongly held though

Industry Update: So far, I have killed 40 ARM and 17 VEHICLES. I am not keeping track of HI. Another ARM is trapped at Mariupol, and I have a shot at the 2 at Kerch. Stalino has 5 Vehicles still which are doomed. Beyond that, I think everything is out of realistic reach, barring a mistake on B-G's part.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 93
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/1/2011 12:07:59 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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How do recon flights improve combat odds?

edit: nm, I found it in the manual.

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 10/1/2011 3:10:53 PM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 94
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/1/2011 4:07:47 AM   
Pelton

 

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You can take Leningrad NP.

Load up 18th with ALLOT of hvy art. Put Model incharge of 1st Corps and add 1 division. Put your next best inf commander in charge of another corps.

Move a bunch of dive bombers into the area.

You need 1 panzer corps for follow up, full MP's so HQ up and sit until needed.

Attack across river, bomb hexes before attack a few times as per BG tactic. This attack works about everytime.

Also load up 1st then other corps with piles of eng's.

I done it more then once and so has a few poeple that have asked for my advice. No need to take ports.

Arm number is ok and you have his army at a ok number. Your tank numbers are still ok, stopping will not help, but the new patch should now.

I made 59 47mm units. This means I wasted a ton of arm pts on unless units when I should have been making TANKS.

I am very sure you been doing same thing why atleast my tank numbers are low 2300 and my units have not been fighting for weeks just chasing F acroos plains.

Anyways set-up things the way I said and you cross the river NP. Leningrad is yours now. Even if his CV=X.

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/1/2011 4:12:55 AM >

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 95
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/1/2011 4:14:38 AM   
Pelton

 

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Your railheads are slow advancing also, why I double up. You should be withen HQ range at this point and your not by looks. If you were he be toast.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/1/2011 4:15:33 AM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 96
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 5:43:44 AM   
Q-Ball


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QUICK UPDATE on T-13:

I have to hit the sack, so need to finish it tomorrow, but big development on T-13

After an HQ Buildup, our spearheads near Tula were faced with a drive toward an empty city. North of Vyazma, the Soviet lines appeared pretty clear, all the way to Moscow, confirmed by piles of recon (I think I must have flown 100 missions or so up there, including at least 30 on Moscow itself)

I was able to open a narrow corridor to Moscow. There was a single unit in W Moscow, but that's it. So, we were able to reach Moscow itself, and occupy the Kremlin. As I was doing it, I thought I would either have a narrow string of units over 10 hexes to Moscow, or it would have to be a suicide mission.

So, 12th Panzer is in the Moscow hex, but it's a one-way trip. I pulled everyone else back, deliberately sacrificing this one division. I'll post a map when I finish the rest of the turn, but tough decision. I'm not sure I would have done that, but after I moved into the hex, I just didn't think I could support it without risking more Panzers. Very tough, because 12th Panzer has 90 Morale which is how they got there in the first place.

We did take out 9 Arm, 5 Vehicles, the IL-4 and Pe-2 factories there, and a couple other items. I should have written it down before moving in, but I'll re-load the turn when I am done and count the damage.

Hopefully that's worth a dead Panzer unit. I hope so......

I am also going to follow Pelton's advice, and halt the drive on the Svir, load up 18th Army with all the Pioneers and Heavy Guns I can find, and assault Leningrad directly. With my other flank on the Volkhov, I can leave a very thin screen there, without risk of counterattack.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 97
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 10:18:14 AM   
Pelton

 

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Nice deathride into Moscow. Make sure if you have not trash the manpower there also. I find so many Russian players make the simple mistake of not garrisioning citys. Its so easy to stop raids and yet they never garrision towns.

Thats 50 which is probably borderline enough. Plus with the fact you have been beating up his army and also trashing allot of manpower pts I would say you have upper hand now.

You will just have to avoid a bad blizzard and you should be looking at a very good 42 summer.

The units to keep at high morale during winter will be mech units, they require next to nothing in tanks and have allot of fire power and MP's. After 41 they do all hvy lifting.

Nice job.

The assault on Leningrad will probably take a few turns, the Pioneers should drop fort levels every assault, which will drop his CV's. I thk vs Kamil it took 3 assaults before the last one worked, this was longest it took most times 2nd or 3rd assault works.

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/2/2011 10:21:28 AM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 98
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 11:39:50 AM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

We cut the rail line to Mariupol, dooming the 1 Arm Factory there.


I think they can be evaced without rail line, as it is a port. Used to be possible a few versions back anyway (which I think is OK).

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 99
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 11:42:18 AM   
Pelton

 

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Yes and I agree also they should beable to be withdrawn by ship. Its much easyer to fill a ship with stuff then 200 rail cars.

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
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RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 11:43:59 AM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

I was able to open a narrow corridor to Moscow. There was a single unit in W Moscow, but that's it. So, we were able to reach Moscow itself, and occupy the Kremlin. As I was doing it, I thought I would either have a narrow string of units over 10 hexes to Moscow, or it would have to be a suicide mission.

So, 12th Panzer is in the Moscow hex, but it's a one-way trip. I pulled everyone else back, deliberately sacrificing this one division. I'll post a map when I finish the rest of the turn, but tough decision. I'm not sure I would have done that, but after I moved into the hex, I just didn't think I could support it without risking more Panzers. Very tough, because 12th Panzer has 90 Morale which is how they got there in the first place.


Nice move, can't wait to se it on the map. I feel a sense of déja vu, as that seems somewhat like what I did at Moscow in our game. I do think it appears somewhat sloppy of the Soviet to allow such things however. A few units digging in a semicircle in front of Moscow will usually prevent that. Hard to say without seeing a map though.

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 101
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 3:16:35 PM   
Q-Ball


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Turn 13: 9/11/41

Death Ride to Moscow:

The big news I previewed earlier; the Moscow death ride. Here is my note to Blethley Geek, which sums it up:

When you open the turn, you'll see why it took so long. I really had to think about this one hard. I managed to punch a hole in your lines north of Vyazma, and moved Panzers into it (the ones down by Tula; you moved all the industry, so I moved. The HQ there had built-up previously). I did about 100 recon missions up there to be sure, and saw you had a division in one hex of Moscow, but nothing else between my lead Panzers and Moscow after I blew away a couple fort units. I carefully calculated I had enough MPs to get there, but not enough to get back to safety. I had enough left in the other Panzers to form a thin line to Moscow, but that would risk 3 to 4 units. So while I had my lead unit hanging NW of Moscow, with what appeared to be a clear path, decision to make: Forward, or back?

I slept on it, and decided on a suicide run. After I did it I realized I could have taken out 2 hexes of Moscow, I had the MPs, but I couldn't be 100% sure of your dispositions. The German Recon is very good, and you can learn alot without flying so many missions, much better than Soviets, but not 100%. After I did it, I'm not sure it's worth it, because 12th Panzer is one of my highest-morale units (which is why it made it that far of course)

So, 12th Panzer rolled into the Kremiln, but I am pretty sure they will die there......


I think B-G has a real crisis now in front of Moscow. He will be able to close-off that hole in his line, but only by shifting units from Rzhev and South of Moscow. Worse, I cut all the rail lines to Moscow except to the SW, so he won't be able to really move the industry for a couple turns, especially since a Panzer Division in Heavy Urban hex figures to be a tough customer, and will require several units on Deliberate attack to kill off. Killing the Panzer unit will also 100% trash the Railyards and Manpower in Moscow, so even if he holds the city, it will put a dent in his effort for awhile.

The haul in Industry is better than I expected; an IL-2 factory, an IL-4, Pe-2, 9 Armaments, 5 Vehicles, and HI of course. That brings the total haul to 50 ARM and 27 Vehicles, plus those planes. However, I think only the Armaments really hurts. The loss of those bombers isn't helpful, but the VVS can survive; there is ALOT of surplus production after 1942, so you can afford to lose some.

Tarhunnas did this exact same thing to me, except it was the whole city. I think B-G won't have a morale problem, but if he does, he should hang in there. Because fort building for the Germans is a real problem in this version, so winter figures to be extra-fun. And while my game with Tarhunnas showed what a good German opponent can do to trash production, it also showed what a good Soviet player can do to fight back in the Blizzard.

OKH Planning Conference:

Given the current situation, we are shaping our end-summer objectives.

Aside from Moscow, we won't be taking any industry. Tula is empty, and because he can't move Moscow, he'll probably finish moving Voronezh, Voroshilovgrad, and Rostov. They will be empty. Leningrad is already picked clean. So, industry-hunting probably isn't in the cards, other than Moscow.

We are making a push on Moscow. I am sending the newly arrived Panzer Corps to the Moscow area, along with a couple Infantry Divisions. I may divert a Panzer Corps from the Voronezh push, how that it failed, no point in continuing.

Elsewhere, my only objectives are to burn Manpower and create space for winter. B-G continues to retreat in the South; I am already close to Voronezh, and 8 hexes beyond Kharkov. I really want to keep gaining space, though, because as the Germans you can use Space or Forts, and if I can get 12 hexes beyond Kharkov I can probably hold it for the Winter.

Besides, I have basically outrun my supplies in the South. I probably can't advance further toward Rostov, because I risk being out of supply in Mud. Same in the Crimea. I am pulling a couple tricks to get one more push, but mostly I think I'm stuck down there. That's not all bad, because I reached all my geographic objectives, and trashed alot of industry. Not bad with 4 turns to go.

The Red Army retreats have made his losses really tail-off. After T-10, it was 2.46 mil, but now stands at 2.72 mil; the Red Army has been able to grow each turn at that rate, and figures to be well over 4 mil when winter hits. I just can't pocket many units, given my fuel situation and B-Gs retreating, plus his defensive arrangements, which are good.

The Importance of Space:

While industry and killing Reds is most important, some are contemptuous of taking space. I disagree. Space serves a couple purposes.

First, even empty space is helpful in defense. In the winter, most Soviet units will burn 6 or 7 MPs for a clear hex, so you can always trade 2 hexes for a turn of peace.

Second, all those little villages add-up. Burning them denies the Soviets Manpower production, which is important later on. I hate the Crimea, but there is the same Manpower production in the Crimea as there is in Kursk, so it's not worthless to clear it.

B-G Assessment:

I think B-G has done some things very well, and made some mistakes, IMO.

What he has done very well is counterattack. He is better at it than I ever was as Soviets frankly. He has really put a dent in my forward mobile units, and put me behind a couple times with surrounds, despite all my efforts to keep fuel moving. His defensive dispositions are generally very good, and take advantage of terrain and rivers. I also think his industry strategy was good, ignoring the small stuff and focusing on the big towns. And whatever he is doing with the VVS, he is definitely winning the air war. He really knows how to use his airpower, I need some lessons from him.

His errors? First, I think he committed too many units in forward defense, so his losses were really high early-on. He also allows me to destroy Fort Zones; I would probably pick them up, because they consume alot of armaments. If he has an armament problem, this is probably one reason why. He also has left a couple cities ungarrisoned, leaving them vulnerable to raids, like Moscow and the Donbas. I did the same thing vs. Tarhunnas, but it's a lesson we all have to learn the hard way I guess.

B-G figures to be nasty in Winter, because he is very good at using airpower to attack. He is now preserving the Red Army, and it's growing. He's building double-lines everywhere, which is a problem. I am seriously worried about what he will uncork in winter.

I have not played mistake free either; I have run my Panzers too hard, bothced a couple fuel issues, my rail repair is middling, and I am the worst Luftwaffe general in history. Hopefully, I am making him sweat though; I think I am.

AGN:

I am taking Pelton's advice up here; I have halted, and left a screen along the Volkhov. The first attack against the "Backdoor" hex cost me 1700 infantry, but dropped the forts by one. One down, 2 to go. I think I can get it on this trajectory, though it will be right at T17 I think.

I have moved a bunch of Pioneers. I also found and moved all the Heavy Artillery, including the 3 units with 305mm/355mm guns.

(BTW, HISTORICAL QUESTION: Why are all of them in VIII Corps of 9th Army? What siege were the Germans expecting for that unit, that they loaded-up all the siege guns there? It would make sense to load-up someone in 4th Army opposite Brest Litovsk, but why 9th Army?)

I should have done this a couple turns ago, but I still think I have time. It probably helped to clear the Volkhov line, I don't want any interference when I am reducing Leningrad.

Elsewhere:

The drive on VORONEZH stalled; not so much due to Soviet resistance, but due to my lack of fuel and general weakness in this area. It's just a long way to the Don from the Polish border. I won't get any industry; and Voronezh itself is a good defensive position with rivers on either side, so I probably won't get the town. I haven't done so yet, but I will probably cancel this drive, and move units north if they can, or form a small pocket, or get an early start on fort building.

Other than that, I'm just entering the space that B-G is giving me in the south. He is starting to halt in front of Voroshilovgrad and Rostov, so I don't think he'll give those up without a fight.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 10/2/2011 3:47:59 PM >

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 102
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 3:22:26 PM   
Flaviusx


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Sigh. I had told BG to drop a garrison in Moscow along with a fort to get all three hexes there dug in to level 3. This needs to happen fairly early on and certainly well before turn 13.

A single panzer division in exchange for all the Moscow industry? A no brainer. That's a trade I would take every time.





_____________________________

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(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 103
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 3:45:03 PM   
DTurtle

 

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Would it have made sense to stick an airbase in Moscow together with the Panzerdivision in order to try and supply it by air?

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 104
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 3:50:54 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Sigh. I had told BG to drop a garrison in Moscow along with a fort to get all three hexes there dug in to level 3. This needs to happen fairly early on and certainly well before turn 13.

A single panzer division in exchange for all the Moscow industry? A no brainer. That's a trade I would take every time.


I learned this lesson the hard way as well. It doesn't take a strong unit, just anything would have stopped me, because hasty attacking into a city hardly ever works.

This was a gift from B-G; I am certain he realizes he made a mistake there.

As a clarification, I only cleared the Moscow hex; W Moscow and N Moscow are still Russian. I actually had the MPs looking back to also clear N Moscow, but too late.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

Would it have made sense to stick an airbase in Moscow together with the Panzerdivision in order to try and supply it by air?



Thought about it, but I didn't have an airbase with the MPs to get there. Most airbases have Morale in the 50s, so they don't really go through enemy territory very well.

Would have been nice to try, though; for only 1 unit in Heavy Urban, they might actually have a chance to hold-out for awhile, because we could probably get them enough supplies.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 10/2/2011 3:55:09 PM >

(in reply to DTurtle)
Post #: 105
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/2/2011 5:08:41 PM   
Klydon


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Great job Q-Ball.

The XII corps in PG2 has some juicy stuff for B-L as well. I don't know for sure, but suspect perhaps they had that corps detailed for Stalin line reduction duty?

Hopefully you can fly in enough supplies for the panzer division to keep it going for a turn or two. Going to hurt to lose a elite moral unit like that, but worth it imo for the gains. I also think you can't underestimate the effects of the damage to the rail lines and rail net as well. You just knocked out over 10% of his rail cap. Capture Leningrad and that will be close to another 10%. (Moscow is 36, Leningrad is 25 out of around 300 something starting rail cap). While much of his evacuation may be complete, he will have some issues moving big stuff around in quantity later on.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 106
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/5/2011 9:38:30 PM   
Q-Ball


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T14: Clear

OVERALL: We are winding down the Summer campaign for several reasons.

First, we have accomplished most of our objectives. We cleared now 52 ARM and 27 Vehicles, and that will be it, barring a Soviet collapse around Moscow. We disrupted alot of MANPOWER, especially since we figure to take Leningrad now.

Second, we are at the end of our rope in some ways. FUEL is very dear, and my Panzer Strength is very low. We could use a break.

Finally, I am very worried about FORTS in this patch. In 1.04 or earlier, the Wehrmacht would leave a trail of lvl-2 forts behind that are useable for the Winter. Now, with greater decay rates, there is nothing. Just open space. I need a several turns to build some forts to help me survive, as it's going to be tough.

I am going to close out Leningrad, push around Moscow. But other than that, I am just going to make enough attacks to disrupt Soviet units, but I'm not advancing. I am at or beyond my halt line everywhere south of Kaluga.

MAJOR MISTAKE:

I am down an FBD unit. I was moving Construction units to see what happens. Nothing, apparently, until you move the very last one. Note to everyone: DON'T DO THAT!

This is another reason I have to wind down. Between my long advance and being short an FBD from T14 on, I am going to be screwed for supplies.

Not sure what to do with the FBD unit now; I am going to hope it somehow works next turn, but if not, I guess I may as well disband it for replacements, and make some Lemonade after this Lemon.

OUCH!

Leningrad:

I didin't post a screenie, but I managed to clear the Backdoor hex, and get 3 units across. Thanks to Pelton for the advice; it took a couple failed attacks, artillery, pioneers, but we cleared it. With 3 Clear turns left, that should be just enough to take the port, and liquidate the place.

This turn, I loaded a Panzer Corps from Pz Gp 4 on the rails, and they are de-training around Smolensk next turn. They should be able to help for 2 turns, plus Snow, around Moscow.

Kerch:
We marched into Kerch without a fight, toasting the 2 Armaments there. I am surprised B-G didn't make a fight of the Crimea; I really didn't think I would make it to Kerch, and with only 4 German Divisions didn't really commit the units to make it happen. I'll take it though. I hate defending it though with all that coastline....

The odds of us attacking into the Kuban? About ZERO.

Festung Moscow:

We made no progress in terms of freeing our guys there. Here are my Top-10 Ways we are defending Moscow:

10. Airdrop Supplies (This I actually did)
9. Declare "Festung Moscow"
8. Promote Division Commander to Field Marshall; air-drop baton, and new I-Pad touch
7. Paint Hitler Mustaches on all portraits of Lenin
6. Up-armor our 38-ts with 40,000 copies of "Complete works of Karl Marx" we found in the Kremlin Basement
5. Vodka. Lots of Vodka.
4. Use Lenin's Corpse as human shield
3. Convene new session of Central Committee; dissolve Soviet Union into various republics
2. Dress-up one of our Landsers as Anastasia, re-claim Imperial Throne
1. Re-call Zhukov to Moscow, "For Consultations".


Anyway, we are locked in the Kremiln, and for many the next step is probably Lubyanka Prison......








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< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 10/5/2011 11:05:39 PM >

(in reply to Klydon)
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RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/6/2011 12:22:38 AM   
bigbaba


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From: Koblenz, Germany
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i think the fact that one has to put at least one good division in charkov moskau, leningrad and co. as soon as german panzers are in strike range is something what some players (including me) have(had to learn on the painfull way.:)

by the way:

add #11 to yolur list:

promissing every "panzermann" a big range and 10 ukrainian beauties for the time after the war.:)

even if the division is gone you did a good job destroying all the remaining factories and manpower (any maybe your opponents moral) by raiding moskau.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 108
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/6/2011 1:58:43 AM   
Pelton

 

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Nice job, on Leningrad crossing. Hard nut to crack, but it can be IF you want it bad enough.

I am guessing you displased all of Mocsow manpower. So you probably hit him more then good enough in that area.

Arm Pts at 52, so you probably hit the min for that coupled with the manpower hit he took.

Your tank numbers are low, so once you pulled them back turn OFF the refits to panzer divisions, plus infantry divisions for a few turns. Have all your mech units on refit. They have only a hand full of tanks so they get decked out in a few turns. Then fill out whatever you like. Its a cheap easy way to make sure you have some strong units for next summer or blizzard.

You look like your in very good shape. Hes hurt but not down.

Get rdy for blizzard, if you can get by without getting toasted you have the upper hand come 42. If you can bag some units you have it made.

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 109
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/6/2011 3:24:58 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Your tank numbers are low, so once you pulled them back turn OFF the refits to panzer divisions, plus infantry divisions for a few turns. Have all your mech units on refit. They have only a hand full of tanks so they get decked out in a few turns. Then fill out whatever you like. Its a cheap easy way to make sure you have some strong units for next summer or blizzard.


Things can fall apart quickly in Winter, necessitating the commitment of Panzers, but I need to carefully note and manage the morale of my mobile units, and how they can be used in '42.

For example, GD Mot Regt has a Morale of 99. It's going to sit in Poland all winter no matter what. Why put it where it can lose morale, but only contribute a little combat value? In March, it upgrades to an Uber-Mot Div, which will also have 99 Morale.

I am pulling most Panzer/Mot Divs with morale over 90. I hope to keep them also out of harm's way. I probably can't for all of them, but I will for the most depleted. For example, 4th Panzer has a morale of 92. It also has only 9 operable tanks (my lowest division). This unit needs to park for the Winter, if I can manage it. By Spring, it should be high-morale, filled-up with newer Panzer types, and loaded for bear.

I plan to commit 10th Panzer, Das Reich, and LAH SS divisions FIRST, for example. Why them? They all withdraw by July 1942. Who cares if their Morale is fried? 10th Panzer has a date with destiny in Tunisia anyway.

I have 3 Infantry Divisions with 90+ morale that I also hope to pull, and leave in Poland.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 110
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/6/2011 10:06:19 AM   
janh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Here are my Top-10 Ways we are defending Moscow:

10. Airdrop Supplies (This I actually did)
9. Declare "Festung Moscow"
8. Promote Division Commander to Field Marshall; air-drop baton, and new I-Pad touch
7. Paint Hitler Mustaches on all portraits of Lenin
6. Up-armor our 38-ts with 40,000 copies of "Complete works of Karl Marx" we found in the Kremlin Basement
5. Vodka. Lots of Vodka.
4. Use Lenin's Corpse as human shield
3. Convene new session of Central Committee; dissolve Soviet Union into various republics
2. Dress-up one of our Landsers as Anastasia, re-claim Imperial Throne
1. Re-call Zhukov to Moscow, "For Consultations".


At least you aren't loosing humor! How about whiskey-sour...

I really thought B-G would manage to hang on to Leningrad, sort of a proof of concept. It will be interesting to see whether Flavius finds a recipe in his game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I plan to commit 10th Panzer, Das Reich, and LAH SS divisions FIRST, for example. Why them? They all withdraw by July 1942. Who cares if their Morale is fried? 10th Panzer has a date with destiny in Tunisia anyway.


That's were it gets dicy... Just because it's clear which units are meant to be withdrawn, using them up... It is not different from sending the axis allies to Italy or France in the old War in Russia. But well, the game allows it, so it is fair.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 111
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/6/2011 11:04:12 PM   
Q-Ball


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T-15

VACATION: OKH is relocating to a remote woods for the long weekend, and I'll be back on Monday. In the meantime, feel free to comment, and I know B-G will be really looking at the last turn I just sent.

General Halt:

Although we are making attacks in several sectors to kill Reds, this turn I have declared a strategic halt, in preparation for Winter.

The reasons are several:
1) My Panzers are down below 2,000 tanks. While not super-critical yet, I would like to save some, and they are able to accomplish less now with lower strength.
2) The LUFTWAFFE is cooked, and I basically do not have ground support now
3) I am reaching the end of my supply lines; in the Crimea, and Stalino, I am concerned I will be in the RED come mud. Losing an FBD unit is going to start to hurt real soon.
4) I cannot get any more industry. The last reachable stuff is gone from Moscow
5) I have reached most of my objectives. I have taken many places, destroyed 52 Armaments, and trashed several cities (Moscow, Voroshilovgrad) for Manpower. There isn't much else I can accomplish, other than trashing Tula.
6) There is limited opportunity to pocket; when I don't pocket, the losses aren't really favorable.

So, I am basically halting for those reasons.

AGN:

We took Ostinovets, the port at Leningrad. We should be able to liquidate it next turn. This is a major victory, as at least 14 Divisions are trapped inside this area. That 100,000 or so POWs will be a nice addition. We will add their uniqueness to our own.

Otherwise, B-G is running eastward now into the Forests, abandoning all contact with the Volkhov. Makes sense, there is really nothing left to get over there.

18th Army will finish cleaning-up Leningrad, and then I am breaking it up for RESERVES. 1 Corps will join 16th Army, which is a bit thin, and 1 Corps will join AGC in front of Moscow, where I think I will need more Infantry.

AGC:

We surrounded 4 Russian Divisions, but that's basically it. We are halting otherwise.

I need to get more guys down there, because 3 divisions from 9th Army are scheduled to be withdrawn soon. I also expect major attacks in front of Moscow. Why? Because that's where all the Russians are. With all those troops there, he will focus on it as an attack point.

Further south, we do have a shot a clearing Tula; I will attempt to trash the city if I can. If not, no big deal.

AGS:

Mostly here we are marching or digging.

Pz Gp 2 is halted. Pz Gp 1 pocketed 2 divisions, but we are not pushing on Rostov.

I need some advice in the CRIMEA: I can't decide whether to stay or go. I wanted to clear Kerch, which I did, but I am thinking of bailing. I can't take Sevastopol.

What is the weather like in the Southern Crimea during Blizzard? Is it Blizzard?

Winter Preparations:

I am beginning Winter prep in many areas.

1. I have created about 30 Fort Zones, and have enough APs for another 8, plus more next turn.
2. I have kept all my MOUNTAIN troops resting. They are all 100% TOE, and the Axis Allied ones have morale in the 50s. They are now moving up to the front, but I will keep them out of action until December.
3. I am creating a Reserve Corps of Infantry from 18th Army.
4. All Panzers will be stationed in Cities initially, and act as fire brigades. I want to keep them indoors, at least for a few turns, to keep morale up
5. I want to create at least 2-3 belts of Fortifications. I plan to "keep" forts from decaying by parking airbases or HQs in the hex. I don't want FORTS to get killed, waste of Manpower.
6. I am beginning to sack the German Leaders with the worst Morale Ratings (I am looking at you, Herr Hoepner)

I am advancing further in some areas than I need or want to, particularly near Voronezh. I plan to immediately withdraw from certain areas when Blizzard hits, hoping to buy a couple turns of peace in some sectors by surrendering space.

Railnet is a big problem I can't really solve before Blizzard. This will be a pain point.

Regardless of what I do, Blizzard will probably suck. I hope I have done the most important thing: Knock the Red Army back. He is approaching 4 mil in strength, though that should step back briefly when I kill-off Leningrad.




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(in reply to janh)
Post #: 112
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/6/2011 11:29:56 PM   
Klydon


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Blizzard is in the Crimea. I would pull back to be honest and use the Rumanians to help dig in the south. You have wrecked the lines down there, so the Russians should be even more logistically weak if they try to attack out of the Crimea, but I would get the bottlenecks heavily fortified for sure and even consider using your minor mountain brigades down there with some German units. You can't logistically support the area during mud anyway with the way your rail net is. I also don't know what you guys have for an agreement regarding amphibs either.

Make sure you load both mountain units up with 3 support units each. Pioneers or Stugs. They are absolutely a beast in the winter and are good for slapping around Russian spearheads. (Mine were right at 20 strength during blizzard being fresh and full up on ToE).

I would consider pulling your support units out and sending them back to OKH for the winter. While it will remove a lot and will take work to put them back in place, considering your HQ's usually have last priority for city or village space, no need to let their support units sit in the open and have artillery units get chewed up by the blizzard.

I would also look to pull elite infantry divisions out and send them back to Germany as a OKH reserve as well. You should be able to get two corps worth probably. Can bring them back in Feb or March and they can get good movement into Russian territory and rip up exhausted Russian units if you play it right and depending on how hard B-G pushes.

I agree with sending some elite panzers back to Germany to rehab during the winter. They will be the first to flip over to the ToE that allows them to use all those nice P-IIIJ's that you can't use right now because you have no divisions that have a ToE for them.

One thing to keep in mind on something that you can never get started too early with and that is the Russian units returning for free is about to end. While a frost offensive can be risky (or encircling units just before mud), the ball game changes because anything surrendering from then on has to be replaced the hard way. Part of this depends on what B-G does as well, but I would say look for the opportunity and don't get too set to just respond to what the Russians may or may not do.

Great campaign so far. I think I like your chances in 42 if you can get through the winter in good shape, but then I think Tarhunnas had done a good job too and you just thumped him all over the map during winter.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 113
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/6/2011 11:39:30 PM   
Q-Ball


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KLYDON: Thanks for advice, I'm pulling back in the CRIMEA then. I will probably hold an interim position in the middle, ONLY so I can retreat to the exits. I hope he spends December just getting to the Perekop.

Too late to use the Romanian Mountain Troops, as they are headed elsewhere; I am going with 4 German Infantry, and about 6 Romanian Divisions. Not enough really, but he only has 6 divisions in the Crimea, so hopefully it takes him a couple turns to figure out I'm leaving, which means he won't have time to really put an offensive together.

I plan to learn from my game vs. Tarhunnas. Tarhunnas had an excellent summer campaign. Here are the comparisons:

1. Tarhunnas actually cleared MORE manpower than I did with B-G, and MORE industry.
2. He lost ALOT of tanks though; he finished summer under 1,000 tanks
3. The Red Army lost only 2.3 mil or so in that game; B-G figures to lose over 3 mil. I think the Red Army will be weaker in this one
4. Additionally, under 1.05, Red Army morale will be less
5. On the flip side, forts are much more a problem under 1.05
6. Finally, Tarhunnas didn't address the "Crimean bulge" in my game with him; I held alot of ground all the way to the Dnepr. This became a massive festering problem for him. My lines figure to be much shorter than what he attempted to defend
7. Cavalry: I really made a point to keep Cav out of harm's way in that game, and not commit it to combat. B-G has lost more CAV than I did, and alot of it's been fighting. Hopefully, that means fewer Cav Corps. We Hates them!

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 114
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/7/2011 12:07:57 AM   
Pelton

 

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Your planes are trashed because of the air bug that was just fixed with .30.

The problem is now all our games have Russian formations with much higher moral then they should have and its effects will really screw the airwar going forward.

So anyone cheering about how good they are doing should be taken with a grain of bug soup.

Your bomber got trashed because Russian fighter were using German commander ratings as I understand it, so there are Russian GUARD air units alrdy. Thats why if someone new about this ahead of time they took advantage of the bug and your game will be unbalanced because the German airforse is way under powered.

Thats why several people restarted games because Russians had allot of high moral units, totally unbalancing game play. Sure the Russians should have high moral units in 43 not July of 41.

If you start a game after .3 was put in the air results are allot different, normal heheh

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/7/2011 12:08:52 AM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 115
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/11/2011 2:01:23 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
T-16

Wow, go away for a couple days camping, and I had to look on page 2 for my AAR! I guess many folks are putting AARs together!

This turn was mostly one of cleanup, winter prep, and a handful of advances. But mostly, we are attempting to get ready for winter, which I expect to really suck in 1.05, due to lack of German Forts. I am not looking forward to it!

The new FORT DECAY rules, IMO, have an impact on the Germans for Blizzard Defense. It seemed like under 1.04 and earlier, the Wehrmacht would inadvertently leave a trail of 1 and 2 size forts all over the map. When the initial defense lines cracked, you could quickly use some of these "leave behind" forts to boost defenses. Not anymore; if you don't build it, AND, if you don't drop a unit in there to prevent decay, it won't be there. This is a big problem, as the Germans don't have alot of excess units. Most of my Panzers right now are diggers! (and since many of them have attached Pioneer units, they are very good at it).

We had pocketed 5 divisions outside of Leningrad, all of them in 1 or 2 unit pockets, and all were liquidated this turn. Our POW haul this turn was 116,000. I will post complete numbers during the Raputista, but Soviet losses now stand at 3.1 mil.

LUFTWAFFE:

I have sent all bomber units with morale below 50, and under 50% strength, back to the National Reserve. This is 100% of all Bomber formations in the Luftwaffe. I still have fighters in Russia, but I am ceding control of the air to the Soviets, as I have completely lost the air war in 1941. We now have under 1800 planes on the map.

I hope my guys can recover, and I hope this is due to a bug that won't repeat in 1942, or I'll be even more screwed.

This should make winter extra fun.....

Leningrad:

The Leningrad area fell completely; we bagged about 90,000 POWs in Leningrad this turn. That's probably the last major prisoner haul we will get.

My plans now up there are setting-up a winter defense. I am going to use the Finns to man everything down to the no-move line. I plan to deploy the Finns thinly, allowing them to rotate units back to Finland to re-gain morale. Come spring, we are going to deploy some GERMAN units to take-over for the Finns, who really degrade when they are not in Finland.

I am sending 4 Infantry Divisions with 90+ morale to Poland to do nothing all winter. Another Corps of 18th Army is moving to OKH reserve status on a Railline somewhere. The last bits are joining 16th Army to defend the Valdai Hills.

I attacked hardly at all up here; B-G is pulling back toward the vast woods west of Cheropovets.

AGC:

I had mentioned before, I am giving up on Moscow. It would be too bloody to try and take it, and I have no air support. It's doomed to failure.

B-G conceded another few hexes, including TULA surprisingly, so we went ahead and occupied them, and will dig-in. I think he must have been expecting a big attack, because I wasn't really going to push him any further. I'll take it, though.

B-G really fought me tooth and nail in the middle turns, with some success (Look closely at the Moscow shot; he already has a Guards Division!) I am surprised he is giving up good ground right now, when I don't appear to be really fighting for it.

He seems to be shortening the line, but shorter lines helps the Germans in Blizzard, not the Reds. The Reds WANT ridiculously long lines (and in my game vs. Tarhunnas, I think the very long frontage he was covering was key to me having a good winter).

Of course, the odds of me HOLDING Tula in Blizzard is about Zero. But it's good to trash the Manpower, because he will miss some production in 1942 from some of these cities I took late in the season.

AGS:

Only in front of the Donbas did we attack much, and we pocketed a single Rifle Division. Further up, we did the same near Voronezh, but nothing big. For the most part, we are digging along our lines in the Ukraine.






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< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 10/11/2011 3:20:15 PM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 116
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/13/2011 4:31:27 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
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T17: Last turn of Summer

B-G continued to fall back here and there, though not too much. He hasn't said anything, but maybe wonders why the Wehrmacht has been pretty quiet.

We eliminated the 2 units surrounded last turn, and made several attacks along the front mostly to just punch some Soviet units. We inflicted about 55,000 losses. Battle losses though weren't that much in my favor; taking out the 16,000 POWs from the destroyed units, we only killed 39K to 15K. Not a great ratio.

Here is the ending map for the Summer; I will post numbers and losses next turn. As you can see, I am building in several areas.




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(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 117
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/13/2011 4:54:21 AM   
Klydon


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Joined: 11/28/2010
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It will be interesting to see how well you hold up against the counter offensive. It appears he is concerned about what you could do these last couple of turns rather than what you did and was playing it cautious.

Not sure I would go with forts side by side like that in the south (and some in the north). Their construction value is not very good. Would think you would go every other hex or even every third hex.

Too bad you could not get to VV or Kalinin in the north to give you two nice urban areas to winter reserve units. As it is, your guys are sort of out in the open now with no real place to hide.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 118
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/14/2011 3:53:56 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5537
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

It will be interesting to see how well you hold up against the counter offensive. It appears he is concerned about what you could do these last couple of turns rather than what you did and was playing it cautious.

Not sure I would go with forts side by side like that in the south (and some in the north). Their construction value is not very good. Would think you would go every other hex or even every third hex.

Too bad you could not get to VV or Kalinin in the north to give you two nice urban areas to winter reserve units. As it is, your guys are sort of out in the open now with no real place to hide.


KLYDON: You are right, I would have done the forts a little differently, but I am using a number of them merely to keep existing Forts from Decaying. You are right, on their own, they dig VERY slowly. I will be picking up most of them the first turn of Blizzard; the additional construction is negligible, and no point sitting outside.

VV or Kalinin would have been nice, I agree; it would have required a Panzer Push, as I really wasn't committed up there. The space I did get was all purely by his withdrawls; Rzhev fell without a fight, and so did most of the Valdai Hills.

T-18: Summer By the Numbers

I put together the numbers of how we did this summer, and I looked up how I did vs. Tarhunnas as the Soviets. In particular, I want to guage how terrible this Blizzard is going to be. I have been on the "Giving" end of a pretty good one I think, despite getting my butt kicked in the 41 summer campaign in that one. I hope that doesn't happen to me!

LOSSES:

A mixed bag. I inflicted a ton of losses on the Red Army through T 10, over 2 mil. The loss rate really tailed off after that, mostly because I stopped getting large pockets. This was due to several factors including Red Army Retreats, lack of fuel from outrunning my logistics, and more Red Army resistance and forts.

We inflicted just over 3.1 mil; OK, but certainly losses the Red Army can afford. I lost 550,000 so far. Aside from POWs, the loss ratio is roughly 2 to 1. I stopped making wholesale attacks, because combats I was winning were consistently netting 2.5 to 1 in losses or so; not really worth prosecuting. I decided to cool it in many sectors.

My TANK losses are acceptable; I have about 2,000 right now in the kitty, a number I can live with.

AIR LOSSES are very bad (I forgot to post that!) We have lost 2787 aircraft, to 9600 for the Soviets. Toss out the first turn, and it's about a 2-1 ratio since then. That's terrible! I chalk that up to the AIR BUG, hopefully I can perform better from here on out.

PRODUCTION:

German Production below. A couple items of note:

1. I have a small Armament surplus for the first time. How? I have a couple theories:
-Setting TOEs of Artillery Units to 50%
-Lighter than usual German losses; either because of game model, or because I "Hit the Breaks"
-Use of captured equipment; I had a surplus as soon as the Soviet stuff was in my units

2. HIWIS: I have 180,000 in the pool. 8% of 2 mil is 160,000; I must have produced the extra 20,000 or so from Captured Manpower centers. Or the 8% is more of a guideline; I'll see if that number keeps growing

3. CAPTURED STUFF: The Soviet guns help; more than the tanks, IMO, which from experience seem to break down quickly.

SUPPLY PROBLEMS:

Big sections of the Front are "In the RED" first turn of MUD. I am hoping B-G doesn't notice, or just can't take advantage of that. It's a problem.

The main areas are all in front of Kharkov, and in the South. In most places, falling back 3 hexes or so will put us back in Supply, so we may need to do that.

LUFTWAFFE QUESTIONS:

Need some advice here; take a look at my BOMBER forces. Fighter units are in better shape Morale-wise, but also depleted.

Should I park all my Bombers in Germany for the entire Winter? Hate to have ZERO air support.....

Can I recover from these losses? I can replace the bombers, but will my experience and morale be permanently screwed?






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Post #: 119
RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Ge... - 10/14/2011 3:57:27 PM   
Flaviusx


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Q-ball, the only thing you'll miss by parking the bombers in the rear during blizzard is some air resupply.

The Red Air force isn't going to be able to do much to affect the ground battle during blizzard. The bomber force is crap at this point, and blizzard results in many aborted missions. What they're strong at is CAP. But if you don't give that CAP targets to shoot at, i.e. bombers, then that doesn't matter.

I actually would consider doing the exact same thing as the Soviets, as a matter of fact: send all their tac bombers to the rear, let them take replacements and train up. Leave enough level bombers on the map on night missions to feed the partisan war, but otherwise, send those to the reserve as well. Leave the fighters on the map to keep the German honest.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 10/14/2011 3:59:33 PM >


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